Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / July 2005
The viability threshold
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Phil Scott - 19 Jul 2005 04:02 GMT .
When one more straw on the camels back breaks it. You could call that the 'viability threshold'
Here are some minor but obvious examples. There is no need to hair split these for obvious exceptions. the examples are used to illustrate a more general principle:
Say a given person needs 2500 calories a day to be healthy... and some of it has to be fruits and vegitables.
Then his income is cut 10%.. he now can afford 2,000 calories a day, but its mostly greasey fast food and no fruits and vegitables... he will have crossed the 'viability threshold'.. that tiny change in income can take him from progressing and viable...to slowly going south...
he will get fat, loose his stamina and health, get sick... loose income.. that drives the ability to eat well even lower... he gets physically worse. It goes south.
His entire family suffers. His kids now underfed do poorly in school. A million exceptions for sure...but this an example of the commonly seen mechanisms.
the negative ramifications become limitless if you give it some thought.
Why? When did it start...it started with a 5 or 10% cut in income.. that put him on the down side of what I am calling the 'viability' threshold.
When did the 5 to 10% cut in income begin? The govt spent too much so printed more money, purchasing power dropped by 10% (actually since 1999, by 15% a year. on such as homes, fuel and medical costs)
****
A thinking person can see this in all areas...
say a service contractor with work in the city...can do 3 small jobs a day, billing 6 hours.. but spending 10 hours counting free quotes and travel etc. so he is maxed out at 10 hours, stamina fades and all that. So he lives ok on the 6 hours.
He is above the economic viabilty threshold... he buys tools that keep him doing well.
then the city increases parking tickets from 15 dollars (1998) to 85 dollars, 2005... and makes sure that he can't even slow down in the city without getting 200 dollars in parking tickets ... or his truck towed unless he parks in city parking... 8 blocks away from any give job.... and lugs 200 lbs of tools to each job.
Fine..thats life in the city.
He can do two jobs a day now... he drops below the viability threshold.
now leaving all the snitty little details asside... it is that type of thing, a small percentage loss, that drives a larger bulk of activity from viable...to non viable. This is true in countless areas...
An entire viable elephant can be taken down with just one ounce of lead you might say.
To use an analogy....In a culture, that lead might come in the form 500 smaller BB's... its all fatal none the less. Even if the body doesnt drop when when the first BB strikes or the city taxes rise a dollar above net income levels. that dollar..can put a much larger cash flow across the negative margin.
for instance a man hits his kid in the mouth just one time... knocks out a few teeth is all...not much blood. the kids attitude may change a little.. it puts him just a millimeter south of the viabilty threshold.. not enough to notice...but south...early in his life time... that shapes the next 80 years.
The slippery slope. We know how that turns out...we see countless examples.
Another example: A man needs so many calories of good food a day to stay healthy.. cost per day say its 10 dollars... 1 dollar is cut from that budget... two apples and a small salad are eliminated... one greasy hamburger is added so he feels full... that puts him on the down side of the threshold...
A juror may wish to decide if that affects his wife, kids and neighborhood or not........ and the taxes paid to run government.
Two apples. One dollar for a good man, not the type that would have spent it on crack and a shiv. But a good and decent man trying to raise a family...
Once on the down side of the ability to sustain a working posture.... and production.... ability begins to decline...
that cuts income further. Now the second hamburger is dropped... and less protien ... and now a lot noodles and grease.
His musculature fails ... he becomes unable to produce efficiently.
Diabetes follows... and we had no clue why. Of course there are reasons why. He lost a dollar of his income, just one buck....or was ignorant and failed to eat well, he was ignorant for many reasons, some work too hard to have the energy to do research or understand actual issues.... it went south from there.
Accordingly any tiny change, a faint loss of income, or a trace level of added ignorance, abuse etc..and you see very very little change immediately... the person is still right at the threshold...it all looks fine. But its absolutely not fine.
A closer look, and it is observed that he is now just a millimeter south of sustainable viability.... it goes south fast from there. Its caled the 'slippery slope'
It is for these reasons that any incriment of abuse from government or elsewhere. a spouse, an employer or ones own ignorance.... can take any situation from viable to non viable to disaster. That one tiny incriment if it occurs in the threshold area, can push a person to the negative band.
A close look will reveal that most people are in the threshold and below threshold areas.... in many aspects of their lives.
For instance say the guy is rich.. not anywhere near the economic viability threshold, but he is hateful...is is vicious..and sees no good in others.
Such a man is on the threshold of killing himself with his own bile... he gets a tax audit.. that puts his health totally south.... then the business collapses.
It has happened thousands of times.
This is why that extra time one spends waiting in traffic can lead to the collapse of an entire culture so to speak... at some point the efforts and costs of production falls one single penny below what is needed to sustain operations....
... collapse begins there.
A year later costs exceed net production by 10%... borrowing puts it farther south, all on the slippery slope... work is sent to china... the blue collar class can't earn above the viability threshold... or pay taxes... the tax base collapses, govt ends up with lots blubber, corrupt and with no hope of recovery.
that is the history of nations.
These tiny abuses, such as bogus tickets...or a corrupt court, or one cop retiring at a cost that sucks up the tax base from 10 city blocks... just to pay that one cops retirement... all of that, even though minor in itself... is the factor that pushes a situation south... below the viability threshold.
Personally in the US this is an epidemic problem.
What one can do:
Take care of yourself.. without great health you will go fast onto the slippery slope. thats first. Live under a bridge if you must but get your rest and eat well. No matter how rich you get if you do not take great care of yourself... it all goes south.
Take care of ones associates..family and business relations etc...with those strong, they will be there and able to keep you successfully engaged. Work only with people of the same bent or the 'takers' can put you personally below the viability threshold.. must taking 10% of a projects income, if it puts cash flow below costs of operations, can begin the bankrupcy cycle.
If the govt comes and wants the money you need for heart medicine, or some decent food and a great movie needed to keep your interest up in life... Think twice before cowering if fear or working 16 hours a day while eating junk food in order to oblige them.
Those are the harbingers of black death for any culture.
You do your glorious government no favors in the end by allowing abuse that forces you below the viability threshold... then to personal non production and collapse...
that only decimates a nation.
Phil Scott (415) 927 7573
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 19 Jul 2005 22:53 GMT > . > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > that tiny change in income can take him from progressing and > viable...to slowly going south... COMMENT:
The problem with this ridiculous exercise is that "greasy fast foods" are always more expensive than whole healthy bread, eggs, canned goods, and produce. Why? Because you have to pay the doofuses who flip the burgers, AND their bosses, AND the franchise, etc, etc, etc.
Go actually price bread, canned meat, eggs, and #10 tin cans of canned fruit and vegetables and beans (which are perfectly nutritious). Meals can be made for 30 cents. If you get past 50 cents, you're being a luxury hog.
Of course, you have to do the work yourself.
SBH
Phil Scott - 20 Jul 2005 00:58 GMT > > . > > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > and produce. Why? Because you have to pay the doofuses who flip the > burgers, AND their bosses, AND the franchise, etc, etc, etc. Hey no need to be a jerk...of course the guy has options..but that not the point.. the point is clearly stated and given..ones own error or combination of other factors can push a person south across the viablitiy threshold.
duhhh
> Go actually price bread, canned meat, eggs, and #10 tin cans of canned > fruit and vegetables and beans (which are perfectly nutritious). Meals [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > SBH George Cherry - 20 Jul 2005 01:03 GMT >> . >> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Of course, you have to do the work yourself. Also the shoplifting--to get healthy meals for under 50 cents.
GWC
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 20 Jul 2005 03:48 GMT > > Go actually price bread, canned meat, eggs, and #10 tin cans of canned > > fruit and vegetables and beans (which are perfectly nutritious). Meals [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > GWC COMMENT
George, bread is 5 cents a slice and generic multivits are 5 cents each. Eggs can be had for 10 cents each. If you shop at COSTCO and know what you're doing, you can survive indefinitely on $1.50 a day, even without resorting to canned catfood (which is perfectly nutritious but embarrassing).
I suggest a homework project for you. Come down from the irory tower.
SBH
George Cherry - 20 Jul 2005 18:07 GMT >> > Go actually price bread, canned meat, eggs, and #10 tin cans of canned >> > fruit and vegetables and beans (which are perfectly nutritious). Meals [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > I suggest a homework project for you. Come down from the irory tower. Okay, I'll figure out what I actually spend per meal, but it's going to add up to a lot more than $0.50 per meal. Let's take the bread I eat (bread made from organic whole sprouted grains and zero fat). I estimate each slice (I don't have a loaf in front of me) is about $0.20. I put raw organic almond butter on it and pop a couple of fish oil capsules. Hey, I've just started. Organic red beans with organic spaghetti sauce (no salt). And then the fruit--an orange, some blueberries, and an organic apple. And then a little dairy--low-fat organic yogurt with a tablespoon of psyillium hush powder stirred in. And then the veggies: broccoli usually. And then a little dessert: unsweetened organic apple sauce with a little organic unsweetened cocoa. I must be way over a buck by now. And then a glass of organic red wine without sulphites.
GWC
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 21 Jul 2005 00:50 GMT > >> > Go actually price bread, canned meat, eggs, and #10 tin cans of canned > >> > fruit and vegetables and beans (which are perfectly nutritious). Meals [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > butter on it and pop a couple of fish oil capsules. > Hey, I've just started. COMMENT:
Well, Jesus, George, it's going to be even more if you include the Beluga caviar on the toast points.
One hopes the point was not that a person has to shoplift in order to continue the spouted ground bread raw organic almond lifestyle to which they've become accustomed. The point is you can stay alive on 50 cents a meal without becoming malnourished. Whether or not your maximum life span will be affected is something I can't tell. Probably, if you can't afford the molecularly distilled fishoil, wild blueberry juice, nanoemulsified CoQ10 and the particular hand-dug Cordyceps sinensis smuggled out of a particular Buddhist monestary in mountains of Tibet.
SBH
George Cherry - 22 Jul 2005 06:19 GMT >> >> > Go actually price bread, canned meat, eggs, and #10 tin cans of >> >> > canned [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > nanoemulsified CoQ10 and the particular hand-dug Cordyceps sinensis > smuggled out of a particular Buddhist monestary in mountains of Tibet. When we shopped today I tried to figure out what I would buy for my next meal if I had only $0.50 to spend. I jumped on a 15.5oz. (438g) can of Goya "Small Red Beans". (These are the cheapest beans they sell at the Hannaford's Super Market in York, Maine, where we usually shop.) The can of beans was $0.49, so I was just under the $0.50 limit you set for me.
I chose small red beans because I like their taste, the 15.5oz can would give me 24.5 grams of protein, about 85% of my daily value of fiber, about 1/3 of my daily value of iron, about 14% of my daily requirement of calcium, and a nice slug of anti-oxidants (Small Red Beans are a very rich source and anti-oxidants.) The whole can would give me only 315 calories. That's more Calorie Restriction (less than 1000 calories per day) than even this CRON practitioner wants to practice. Furthermore, I don't think I'd hit the ON part of CRON (Optimum Nutrition).
Of course, I could buy a #10 can of dried Small Red Beans, soak 'em, and simmer 'em for 2.5 to 3.0 hours. But that's a lot of trouble and a lot of propane.
But I'd have $0.03 left if I ate a can of Goya beans for every meal. Maybe I could buy a few loose grapes in the produce department and get a little Resveratrol. And maybe I could collect my expelled gas and try to use it instead of propane.
Well, I think I'll just continue to be a super "luxury hog". But I think someone impecunious should check out Small Red Beans. I think they might give the most nutrition bang for the buck.
GWC
st7 - 21 Jul 2005 09:32 GMT > Go actually price bread, canned meat, eggs, and #10 tin cans of canned > fruit and vegetables and beans (which are perfectly nutritious). Meals [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > SBH cost unit kcal sweet potato 0.59 1 lb 408.6 egg 0.10 1 med 92 milk. 1% 0.19 1 c 102 cabbage 0.20 3 c 52.8 flax seed 0.02 1 T 59 banana 0.08 1 med 105 oatmeal 0.10 4 oz dry 440 tuna 0.13 1/4 can 50 onion 0.14 4 oz 50 lentils 0.15 4 oz dry 384 generic multi 0.10 1 10 gen. fish oil 0.20 1 10 $1.98 1763.4
Add some extra virgin olive oil or avocado: add $0.20-$0.50 Add a tomato: another $0.30-$0.50 Add some lettuce: another $0.30-$0.50 Add some seasonal fruit: another $0.50-$1.00
This does not consider cooking or condiment costs.
I see this as at least $4 per day to make it palatable, and to add a cup of coffee in the morning.
Phil Scott - 21 Jul 2005 10:04 GMT >> Go actually price bread, canned meat, eggs, and #10 tin >> cans of canned [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > I see this as at least $4 per day to make it palatable, > and to add a cup of coffee in the morning. Well wonderful....does any of this change the fact of a viablity threshold? at all? does it change it even one faint millionth of a tiddle?
Nah... it issue remains of line that once crossed at whatever level, either due to ignorance, or loss of the final sheckle with with to by ones daily ration of a drop of olive oil... the threshold is crossed.
That was the point of my remarks.
that there are viability thresholds, across all aspects of life...and that when any are crossed... the whole can of worms dies off.
Sorry. thats just how it is.
Will it always be true that some super bright or rescourceful folks will manage a decent survival...oh yes. One hopes thats him or herself for sure.
There remains the absolute fact of a viability threshold... you say oh no...I can always get my dram of olive oil... well maybe..but thats really not the point.
I or anyone can show you nations in which millions starve to death every month... or other nations that starve not at all yet obliterate themselves by crossing other viablity thresholds...such as political and corruption thresholds seen in sub saharan africa... etc.\
And we see very well off americans... with retirements of 10,000 dollars a month, retired SF police officers for instance... now 400 lbs of inactive diabetic blubber with alzheimers disease from those f.cking donuts.
The viabilty threshold was crossed with grease you see.
That was the point. One can do himself a favor and elect no to cross the viabilty threshold of willful ignorance as well. Ignorance may be in the final analysis the most deadly of the thresholds to pass headed south.
regards, Phil Scott
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 21 Jul 2005 18:38 GMT > I or anyone can show you nations in which millions starve to > death every month... COMMENT:
But not too many where millions have starved to death because they crossed income line where the only meals they could afford was cheap greasy fast food from the local franchise, as you suggested in your essay. Get the point?
COMMENT:
or other nations that starve not at all
> yet obliterate themselves by crossing other viablity > thresholds...such as political and corruption thresholds seen > in sub saharan africa... etc.\ COMMENT
Indeed, but these are not problems of assistace to the poor, or lack of it. They are problems of bad political systems, which allow roving bands of semi-autonomous armed bastards to starve poor sods who don't have any. Got nothing to do with your essay premise.
> And we see very well off americans... with retirements of > 10,000 dollars a month, retired SF police officers for > instance... now 400 lbs of inactive diabetic blubber with > alzheimers disease from those f.cking donuts. COMMENT:
Again, not because they couldn't afford good food. Cops weighing 400 lbs because they had only enough money to buy donuts? You are totally out of your frigging mind.
See a shrink.
I'm done with you and this nitwit conversation.
SBH
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