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Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / July 2005shelled nuts
Hi, I have been reading this newsgroup for a while, but never posted anything. Now I have a couple of questions, that I hope somebody will have an informed answer to. I want to eat about 60 grams/2 ounces of nuts each day. I have learned that you should always buy nuts unshelled and shell them yourself, because shelled nuts are already rancid in the store. Do you know if this is really necessary? I would buy packaged nuts, not the ones that lay in plastic boxes in the open air all day. (I know shelling nuts is not that much work, but if I take everything: washing, cutting and preparing all the vegetables, fruits and legumes I eat, it almost feels like a day job to prepare my food) I have another question about roasted nuts. No doubt oil roasted nuts are bad, because of the refined vegetable oils used, and the high temperature. But how bad are dry roasted nuts, like pistachio's? I think I cannot even buy raw walnuts here, even the ones that you buy in the shell appear to be roasted (sometimes they are black). Last question: if roasting is so bad because it alters the fats, is boiling almonds in order to blanch them also a no-no? veggiegirl > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I want to eat about 60 grams/2 ounces of nuts each day. Personally I would strongly recommend against eating that many nuts. Nuts are not a food one should eat every day. I found that even when I shell the nuts and soak overnight (to remove anti-nutrients like enzyme inhibitors) cause more health problems then benefits. Most nuts are high in polyunsaturated fatty acids. High intake of such fats have been repeatedly linked with cancer, heart and inflammatory diseases. > I have learned > that you should always buy nuts unshelled and shell them yourself, > because shelled nuts are already rancid in the store. Do you know if > this is really necessary? I would buy packaged nuts, not the ones that > lay in plastic boxes in the open air all day. Sometimes one can come across organic and really fresh looking nuts which have been recently packaged, such nuts should be fine. Look for the date. > (I know shelling nuts is not that much work, but if I take everything: > washing, cutting and preparing all the vegetables, fruits and legumes I > eat, it almost feels like a day job to prepare my food) I used to have the same problem - healthy eating takes more time then what one may be used to. Instead of fighting it, I decided to make good use of it. Now, most of the time when I prepare and eat food I consider it a meditation or a relaxing break. A calming state during which one is preparing healthy foods that are good for the body. > I have another question about roasted nuts. No doubt oil roasted nuts > are bad, because of the refined vegetable oils used, and the high > temperature. But how bad are dry roasted nuts, like pistachio's? I think > I cannot even buy raw walnuts here, even the ones that you buy in the > shell appear to be roasted (sometimes they are black). Roasting is usually done at high temperatures which easily damages the highly unstable polyunsaturated fats. > Last question: if roasting is so bad because it alters the fats, is > boiling almonds in order to blanch them also a no-no? One of the reasons one is roasting, is to inactivate anti-nutrients in nuts that would be harmful to humans. The same can be achieved through soaking or sprouting. I don't know if boiling is a high enough temperature(100C) to do that. If you really want to eat nuts, always soak them overnight and do not eat more then a few small hand fulls a week when they are in season. Pay attention to any signs of inflammation or small aches and pains that my suddenly appear after you started eating them. If you get any problems, I would drop the nuts immediately.  SignatureDawid Michalczyk http://www.art.eonworks.com - Art and Illustration >> Hi, >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >in polyunsaturated fatty acids. High intake of such fats have been >repeatedly linked with cancer, heart and inflammatory diseases. Dr. Walter Willett, of the Harvard Nutrition study, would disagree with you: "Some fats are good for you, and it is important to include these good fats in your diet." Specifically, eating unsaturated fats found in most vegetable oils, nuts and fatty fish instead of saturated fats such as butter and animal fats can reduce low-density lipoproteins ("bad" cholesterol) and help to protect against coronary heart disease, erratic heartbeats and blood clots. Trans-fatty acids, found in many hard margarines and baked goods containing partially hydrogenated vegetable oils, should be avoided because they increase the risk of heart disease. Research connects excess weight, not overall fat consumption, to some forms of cancer, and people on low-fat, high-carbohydrate diets tend to regain the weight >> I have learned >> that you should always buy nuts unshelled and shell them yourself, [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >suddenly appear after you started eating them. If you get any problems, >I would drop the nuts immediately. Hi Dawid, Thanks for your reply, > Personally I would strongly recommend against eating that many nuts. > Nuts are not a food one should eat every day. I found that even when I > shell the nuts and soak overnight (to remove anti-nutrients like enzyme > inhibitors) cause more health problems then benefits. Most nuts are high > in polyunsaturated fatty acids. High intake of such fats have been > repeatedly linked with cancer, heart and inflammatory diseases. Nuts and seeds are my primary source of fat, and an important source of protein. I do not eat vegetable oils or meat. I do eat a teaspoon of ground flax seed a day, and make sure to include walnuts, so I thought my omega 3/6 ratio would not be that bad. You are probably right that high intake of pufa's is linked with all kinds of diseases, but I think there is a huge difference between consuming corn/sunflower oil on the one hand, and walnuts/almonds on the other. I recently started a vegan diet. I am rather active and need some high calorie low sugar (I tend to eat too much dried fruit) foods in my diet. Are there any other foods you suggest? Meat and cheese eating has been linked with all kinds of diseases as well (and I'd rather not eat them for other reasons). >> (I know shelling nuts is not that much work, but if I take everything: >> washing, cutting and preparing all the vegetables, fruits and legumes I [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > it a meditation or a relaxing break. A calming state during which one is > preparing healthy foods that are good for the body. You probably do not have small children :) >> I have another question about roasted nuts. No doubt oil roasted nuts >> are bad, because of the refined vegetable oils used, and the high [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Roasting is usually done at high temperatures which easily damages the > highly unstable polyunsaturated fats. I often hear that, but I wonder if there is any research to back that up. I was surprised that roasting flax seed does not seem to destableize the ALA (the most unstable oil of all). (source: http://www.flaxcouncil.ca/pdf/stor.pdf ). Maybe the anti-oxidants in the seeds protect the oil? Which would explain why it still is a bad idea to heat extracted vegetable oils. >> Last question: if roasting is so bad because it alters the fats, is >> boiling almonds in order to blanch them also a no-no? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > soaking or sprouting. I don't know if boiling is a high enough > temperature(100C) to do that. You are right 100C is not that high, nuts are probably roasted at 180C. > If you really want to eat nuts, always soak them overnight and do not > eat more then a few small hand fulls a week when they are in season. Pay > attention to any signs of inflammation or small aches and pains that my > suddenly appear after you started eating them. If you get any problems, > I would drop the nuts immediately. Thanks for the advice. I think I can tolerate nuts fine, I never noticed any problems except that it is so easy to overeat them. veggiegirl. >>> (I know shelling nuts is not that much work, but if I take everything: >>> washing, cutting and preparing all the vegetables, fruits and legumes I >>> eat, it almost feels like a day job to prepare my food) Well, for walnuts this would make it easier: http://members.aol.com/mhenkassoc/nnga/adsqpage.htm#ad1 >>> I cannot even buy raw walnuts here, You can't buy them in a health food store? I can get organic raw ones. Shelled. The supplier keeps them in cold storage. My HFS does not, but they go through a 25# box in a week or two. I keep them in the freezer, and then the refrigerator. >even the ones that you buy in the >>> shell appear to be roasted (sometimes they are black). Walnuts are black. >>> Last question: if roasting is so bad because it alters the fats, is >>> boiling almonds in order to blanch them also a no-no? The problem with almonds is they are high in Omega 6. Walnuts have more Omega 3 and a better 3/6 ratio. >Thanks for the advice. I think I can tolerate nuts fine, I never noticed >any problems except that it is so easy to overeat them. I see no reason why you can't eat 2 ounces a day. Or even more if you want. Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom). > I think I can tolerate nuts fine, I never noticed > any problems Neither did I, with (raw, unroasted) walnuts, almonds, pinenuts and hazelnuts. I also like eating them in the morning muesli, for breakfast. SignatureEnrico C > Hi Dawid, > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > linked with all kinds of diseases as well (and I'd rather not eat them > for other reasons). Speaking from personal experience I don't think a vegetarian diet promotes human health. Perhaps the most convincing argument against it is that there are/were no known peoples in the world who were vegetarians. Also, the longest living people in the world, for example, the Okinawans, eat meat. A few links that may help you save your health: http://www.westonaprice.org/mythstruths/mtvegetarianism.html http://www.beyondveg.com/ (read what long, long time vegetarians have to say about it) >>>(I know shelling nuts is not that much work, but if I take everything: >>>washing, cutting and preparing all the vegetables, fruits and legumes I [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > You probably do not have small children :) I don't :) But there is always a way out of every situation. I'm sure you can find one too. >>>I have another question about roasted nuts. No doubt oil roasted nuts >>>are bad, because of the refined vegetable oils used, and the high [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > Thanks for the advice. I think I can tolerate nuts fine, I never noticed > any problems except that it is so easy to overeat them. SignatureDawid Michalczyk http://www.art.eonworks.com - Art and Illustration Hi Dawid, > Speaking from personal experience I don't think a vegetarian diet > promotes human health. Perhaps the most convincing argument against it > is that there are/were no known peoples in the world who were > vegetarians. Well, there were the chinese Buddhists. > Also, the longest living people in the world, for example, > the Okinawans, eat meat. But very little. I understand that without access to the benefits of our modern society, such as vitamin B12 pills, veganism would be more difficult (it would involve growing your own vegetables and using your own feces as manure). However, I think that argument holds little value, since without our modern society the oceans would be much cleaner, and the fish would be much healthier to eat, for example. > A few links that may help you save your health: > http://www.westonaprice.org/mythstruths/mtvegetarianism.html Ugh. I am sorry. I read that article years ago, and thought it was rubbish then. The first thing that springs to mind is that the women around whom the argument is built is NOT a vegetarian! If she is 'nearly' a vegetarian, the Okinawas you mentioned earlier are too. They seem to do pretty well, as you said. > http://www.beyondveg.com/ (read what long, long time vegetarians have to > say about it) That site is much, much better than the Weston A. Price sites, but I find it more anti-fad-diets (such as natural hygiene and all raw diets) than anti-vegetarianism per se. The main 'arguments' I learned there were: 1. It's not natural. That does not impress me much, I think humans adapt pretty well, and we live in a totally unnatural environment anyway. 2. Some people do not feel well on a natural hygiene style vegan diet. They should change their diet. >>>I used to have the same problem - healthy eating takes more time then >>>what one may be used to. Instead of fighting it, I decided to make good [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I don't :) But there is always a way out of every situation. I'm sure > you can find one too. I am sure I'll get used to it, but "a calming state during which one is preparing healthy foods" seems like very far away at the moment. veggiegirl > Hi Dawid, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Well, there were the chinese Buddhists. Can you point me to resources? >>Also, the longest living people in the world, for example, >>the Okinawans, eat meat. > > But very little. According to gerontologist Kazuhiko Taira, Okinawans eat 100 grams each of pork and fish each day. I would not call that very little meat. SignatureDawid Michalczyk http://www.art.eonworks.com - Art and Illustration >>>Also, the longest living people in the world, for example, >>>the Okinawans, eat meat. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >According to gerontologist Kazuhiko Taira, Okinawans eat 100 grams each >of pork and fish each day. I would not call that very little meat. Yes. This excerpt comes from: http://www.westonaprice.org/traditional_diets/food_in_china.html And what do Okinawans eat? The main meat of the diet is pork, and not the lean cuts only. Okinawan cuisine, according to gerontologist Kazuhiko Taira, "is very healthyand very, very greasy," in a 1996 article that appeared in Health Magazine.19 And the whole pig is eateneverything from "tails to nails." Local menus offer boiled pigs feet, entrail soup and shredded ears. Pork is cooked in a mixture of soy sauce, ginger, kelp and small amounts of sugar, then sliced and chopped up for stir fry dishes. Okinawans eat about 100 grams of meat per daycompared to 70 in Japan and just over 20 in Chinaand at least an equal amount of fish, for a total of about 200 grams per day, compared to 280 grams per person per day of meat and fish in America. Lardnot vegetable oilis used in cooking. 19. Deborah Franklyn, "Take a Lesson from the People of Okinawa," Health, September 1996, pp 57-63 > You are probably right that high intake of pufa's is linked with all > kinds of diseases, but I think there is a huge difference between > consuming corn/sunflower oil on the one hand, and walnuts/almonds on the > other. True. Also it's consuming damaged PUFA that's the real problem rather than simply how much. Heating oils provides a large surface area for oxygen attack and lots of energy for it to happen. In contrast, a solid nut has little oxygen entry and if unheated, little damage. > I recently started a vegan diet. I am rather active and need some high > calorie low sugar (I tend to eat too much dried fruit) foods in my diet. > Are there any other foods you suggest? Meat and cheese eating has been > linked with all kinds of diseases as well (and I'd rather not eat them > for other reasons). Greek-style yoghurt? MattLB This is the most ludicrous thing I think I've ever read in a news group post. Don't listen to this guy veggie girl. And by all means, DON'T SOAK YOUR NUTS. That is really dumb! Look at the date stamp on the nuts for freshness. They are not all rancid. In fact, I don't think that has ever happened to me. You can smell them if they are. Most supermarkets now provide them in the produce section wrapped and date stamped. Even old nuts in the shell can be old and rancid. Walnuts and almonds (raw) are the two best nuts one can eat for essential nutrients other than protein which they all have. Rachel | > Hi, | > [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] | suddenly appear after you started eating them. If you get any problems, | I would drop the nuts immediately. >Don't listen to this guy veggie girl. And by all means, DON'T SOAK YOUR >NUTS. That is really dumb! Soaking will reduce any phytic acid in the nuts. Though I don't think of nuts as being that high in phytic acid to start with. Generally one finds it in the bran layer of a seed. Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom). > This is the most ludicrous thing I think I've ever read in a news group > post. > > Don't listen to this guy veggie girl. And by all means, DON'T SOAK YOUR > NUTS. That is really dumb! Perhaps you should do a search on "antinutrients" and "enzyme inhibitors". Here is what Stephen Byrnes, PhD writes about soaking nuts: "As mentioned earlier, nuts have high amounts of enzyme inhibitors and phytates that should be broken down before consuming them. How does one do this? By soaking the nuts in salted water for 6-8 hours" source: http://www.powerhealth.net/article_nuts.htm SignatureDawid Michalczyk http://www.art.eonworks.com - Art and Illustration And you can find just about anything doing a search on anything on the internet, any cockamambie idea you can think of. ITS DUMB. Use your common sense. You believe EVERYTHING you read??? Science changes their mind on everything. Take E....No, don't take E.... A's good ,.. no A's bad.... Milk is good for you.... No milk may be bad for you..... C is best anti oxidant, no C may cause cancer..... Listen to them and you'll get whiplash ! Nuts were meant to be enjoyed AS IS and have been four thousands of years. | > This is the most ludicrous thing I think I've ever read in a news group | > post. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] | | source: http://www.powerhealth.net/article_nuts.htm > And you can find just about anything doing a search on anything on the > internet, any cockamambie idea you can think of. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > You believe EVERYTHING you read??? Science changes their mind on > everything. Newton's laws of motion seem quite stable-- (unless you're traveling at a speed nearly as fast as the speed of light, or you're a subatomic particle). > Take E....No, don't take E.... A's good ,.. no A's bad.... Milk is good > for > you.... No milk may be bad for you..... C is best anti oxidant, no C may > cause cancer..... Listen to them and you'll get whiplash ! Be sure you have a head rest to avoid it. > Nuts were meant to be enjoyed Who meant that? > AS IS and have been four thousands of years. And before that? Could Paleolithic man enjoy them? Or do you think the earth is only 4 thousand years old? GWC > | > This is the most ludicrous thing I think I've ever read in a news > group [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > | > | source: http://www.powerhealth.net/article_nuts.htm > And you can find just about anything doing a search on anything on the > internet, any cockamambie idea you can think of. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Nuts were meant to be enjoyed AS IS and have been four thousands of years. WOW, your ignorance of science is profound. Even for the bunch than hangs out at this group, you're a step down. Your mom must be proud of you. SignatureDr. Dickie "Let be be finale of seem. The only emperor is the emperor of ice-cream." -- Wallace Stevens "I want to eat about 60 grams/2 ounces of nuts each day." Why the compulsion? Yes, nut eating is associated with good health, but I suspect mostly because people who eat them pay attention to their other foods. You should eat them because they taste super! (I hereby declare a bias - see http://sankey.ws/crf/) "shelled nuts are already rancid in the store" Nonsense! If a nut is rancid you can taste it, if it is mouldy you can see it. You won't find either at a good dealer. "I would buy packaged nuts, not the ones that lay in plastic boxes in the open air all day." Packaged nuts can be very old. I always buy from a dealer who keeps them open so that I can smell them and check their condition. Look for a store with high turnover - I get mine at Canada's Bulk Barn (except for butternuts and black walnuts, which I collect locally). Of course, don't go near a dealer that displays them under strong lights that keep them warm. "how bad are dry roasted nuts" It depends on the dealer. Moderate dry-roasting improves flavour considerably and reduces most phytotoxins (which are chemicals the plant uses to control seed germination, but some of which cause problems with our digestion). Over-roasting can damage food value (as many on this group will tell you very loudly!) Try to find a raw nut you like - I love almonds and hazels that way. "I cannot even buy raw walnuts here, even the ones that you buy in the shell appear to be roasted (sometimes they are black)." If walnuts are in the shell, they have not been roasted or the shell would be split open. If they are black it is because they are of low quality - the lighter-coloured a walnut/ butternut/ pecan, the higher the quality of taste. If you are in the USA, check Hammons Products on the web - they sell top quality American black walnuts. "is boiling almonds in order to blanch them also a no-no?" Blanching doesn't change the taste, just the appearance. I don't do it myself (except for ginkgos and chestnuts, where you have to for digestibility). Never forget though that a percent or so of people are very sensitive to some compounds that are found in some nuts (especially in peanuts, which are legumes, not nuts). And, aflatoxins that are produced by mould on some nuts can also cause serious problems. Always introduce one food at a time, and watch your health for the next few days. Just because one kind of nut causes you problems does not mean that all will - I have a friend who can't touch raw hazels, only well roasted ones, but loves all other nuts raw. And, peanuts seem to cause problems for some people that true nuts don't. "I am getting confused after reading so many pufa = dangerous stories, I guess." The vast majority of nutritionists are certain that several PUFAs are essential nutrients for us, and in more than one way. They disagree solely on the quantity required as a minimum. (See http://sankey.ws/dietref.html for discussion and some links.) Most would suggest 10% of calories from any one type of lipid as a maximum, but anyone who often eats the Cretan recipe that Johana posted a while back will sail far above that for MUFAs! "The problem with almonds is they are high in Omega 6." True of almost all nuts. "Walnuts have more Omega 3 and a better 3/6 ratio." True of both Carpathian walnuts (Juglans regia) and black (J.nigra). Pine nuts (pinyon, stone and Korean) have even better 3/6 ratio, but are much more expensive. Walnuts can easily dry out to the point of uselessness in the shell. Interestingly, their close relative butternut (J.cinerea) can stay in the shell for a decade or more in perfect condition. Curious... "What IS the matter with you?" Montygram has a very serious health problem, and I've worked with such people here in Ottawa for some 40 years now. If he hadn't buckled down and changed his life, he'd be dead now. And, he had to figure out most of his health problems all by himself, because no doctor could. But, it's routine for such people to assume that what worked for them is best for everyone, and that's not true. |
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