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Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / July 2005Weight loss and ketones
Hi all, I found this statement on an article about weight loss and I wonder if anyone could comment on its reliability: "The first way to know that you are actually about to start burning fat deposits in your body is hunger. To feel a little hungry when you first begin a weight loss diet is good! It means that your body can't find enough sugars or carbs to keep going. Hunger is the signal that your body is about to reach into your "fat warehouse" to find nourishment for metabolism. Every diet or supplement that results in fat loss is ketogenic . Any time your body burns fat, chemicals called ketones are produced. Ketones are byproducts of burning fat. If you are burning significant amounts of fat, these ketones will be measurable in your urine. Ketone test strips are an invaluable tool for all serious dieters. They give you immediate feedback on just how much fat you are metabolizing (burning) at any time. Overweight people just need to eat less, right? Wrong! In fact, studies show that many overweight people eat no more than thin people. The problems really start when you try to lose weight by cutting back on calories. You skip breakfast. Eat a small salad for lunch and a diet microwave dish for dinner. And here is where testing for ketones becomes even more important. Because if you are losing weight, but you are not burning fat- you are losing muscle tissue." If all weight-loss diets are ketogenic, why there are specific diets that are are called ketogenic? Can ketones strips be really useful to check weight loss? Is a lack of ketones in the urines while losing weight really a sign that the body is burning muscles instead of fat? Thanks J. David > "The first way to know that you are actually about to start burning fat > deposits in your body is hunger. ??? Why are fat people so mental? If you don't eat amy food you will eventually starve to death. The logic of that statement should be the only thing anyone needs to manage their own weight. The problem with fat people is that they actually think that losing fat is a destination that that they buy and obtain instantly, with money, just like they can buy a Big Mac at McDonald's. Sorry, but that is not how life works. :) >> "The first way to know that you are actually about to start burning fat >> deposits in your body is hunger. > >??? > >Why are fat people so mental? Why are fat-headed jerks that call themselves "The Man" so mental. >If you don't eat amy food you will eventually starve to death. The >logic of that statement should be the only thing anyone needs to manage [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Sorry, but that is not how life works. :) Ha, ... Hah, Ha! Fortunately evolution gave you such a small pecker that you cannot procreate, not that any woman would actually want you sticking that pitiful little thing in them. We can all breath a sigh of relief to know that your kind will end when you do. Isn't evolution wonderful? :) Just thought you would want to know. RBR On 2 Jul 2005 21:00:46 -0700, Jimmy wrote in <news:1120363246.100224.153940@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> on sci.med.nutrition : > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > > J. David Did yoy try and search Pubmed for those topics? http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/ > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Every diet or supplement that results in fat loss is ketogenic .\\ Not true. It is nomal to burn fat without generating a large number of ketones. People do it literally all the time. > Any time your body burns fat, chemicals called ketones are produced. > Ketones are byproducts of burning fat. > If you are burning significant amounts of fat, these ketones will > be measurable in your urine. I am pretty sure that for ketones to appear, your body has to be unable to utilize glucose. In the ketogenic diet used to treat epilespy, very little sugar is used. Likewise, in diabetics who are ketogenic, they are unable to utilize much sugar because of their condition. That means people who are able to utilize sugar normally don't become ketogenic when they burn fats. Jeff > Ketone test strips are an invaluable tool for all serious dieters. > They give you immediate feedback on just how much fat you are [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > J. David Jeff ha scritto: > That means people who are able to utilize sugar normally don't become > ketogenic when they burn fats. Athletes have high ketones level in their blood when they finish their training even though they don't have that high level during the day. This means healthy persons produce ketones when they burn fat, but these go away after a while. P.S. Sorry for my English > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > warehouse" to find > nourishment for metabolism. This hasn't been my experience. I burn fat and lose weight without hunger, even with very low calorie ketogenic dieting. Further, many folks with morbid obesity find the lack of hunger on ketogenic diets is what allows them to succeed where they've failed on other diets before. That's not to say that going hungry won't cause weight loss, too, but the feeling of hunger is not necessary. > Every diet or supplement that results in fat loss is ketogenic . > Any time your body burns fat, chemicals called ketones are produced. > Ketones are byproducts of burning fat. > If you are burning significant amounts of fat, these ketones will > be measurable in your urine. Not true in many cases. If you're not overeating fat and/or calories, you may burn enough ketones for fuel that they don't show up in your urine. > Ketone test strips are an invaluable tool for all serious dieters. Completely false. > They give you immediate feedback on just how much fat you are > metabolizing > (burning) at any time. No, they don't distinguish between fat you've eaten and body stores you're burning. > Overweight people just need to eat less, right? Wrong! In fact, studies > show that many overweight people eat no more than thin people. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > losing > muscle tissue." Testing for ketones tells you nothing about how your diet is working. Weight loss, feeling good and body recomposition tells you if your diet is working. Use a scale and a tape measure to measure *real* results. > If all weight-loss diets are ketogenic, why there are specific diets > that are are called ketogenic? Because ketogenic diets sustain the fat burning requirement. Eat enough carbs, and your body will burn glucose instead of fat stores. > Can ketones strips be really useful to check weight loss? No, you can gain weight while registering positive on ketone strips if you eat too much. > Is a lack of ketones in the urines while losing weight really a sign > that the body is burning muscles instead of fat? NO. Susan > x-no-archive: yes [...] >> If all weight-loss diets are ketogenic, why there are specific diets >> that are are called ketogenic? > > Because ketogenic diets sustain the fat burning requirement. Eat enough > carbs, and your body will burn glucose instead of fat stores. [...] What if you eat "enough fat" or "enough protein" instead of "enough carbs".  SignatureEnrico C >>x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > What if you eat "enough fat" or "enough protein" instead of "enough carbs". Protein is converted to glucose at a rate of about 58%. In the absence of more readily available glucose, the body can create fuel from fat. I believe I said earlier that eating too much will lead to weight gain or failure to lose even if one is registering ketones. Happened to me years ago; I gained on Atkins' induction level. It caused my T3 to drop below normal. Susan > x-no-archive: yes > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Happened to me years ago; I gained on Atkins' induction level. It > caused my T3 to drop below normal. Ok, but what about the (supposed? real? I don't know) "metabolic benefit"? http://www.pubmedcentral.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pmcentrez&artid=538279 (free full text) Nutr Metab (Lond). 2004; 1: 13. Published online 2004 November 8. doi: 10.1186/1743-7075-1-13. Copyright © 2004 Volek et al; licensee BioMed Central Ltd. Comparison of energy-restricted very low-carbohydrate and low-fat diets on weight loss and body composition in overweight men and women JS Volek,1 MJ Sharman,1 AL Gómez,1 DA Judelson,1 MR Rubin,1 G Watson,1 B Sokmen,1 R Silvestre,1 DN French,1 and WJ Kraemer1 1Human Performance Laboratory, Department of Kinesiology, University of Connecticut, 2095 Hillside Road, Unit-1110, Storrs, CT 06269-1110, USA Corresponding author. JS Volek: jeff.volek@uconn.edu; MJ Sharman: matthew.sharman@uconn.edu; AL Gómez: candelita16@yahoo.com; DA Judelson: gangus_13@hotmail.com; MR Rubin: RUBIN_MARTYN_R@Lilly.com; G Watson: greig.watson@huskymail.uconn.edu; B Sokmen: bulent.sokmen@huskymail.uconn.edu; R Silvestre: ricsilvestre@hotmail.com; DN French: duncfrench28@hotmail.com; WJ Kraemer: william.kraemer@uconn.edu Received July 27, 2004; Accepted November 8, 2004. This is an Open Access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/2.0), which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original work is properly cited. Top >>> Abstract Introduction Methods Results Discussion Supplementary Material References Abstract Objective To compare the effects of isocaloric, energy-restricted very low-carbohydrate ketogenic (VLCK) and low-fat (LF) diets on weight loss, body composition, trunk fat mass, and resting energy expenditure (REE) in overweight/obese men and women. Design Randomized, balanced, two diet period clinical intervention study. Subjects were prescribed two energy-restricted (-500 kcal/day) diets: a VLCK diet with a goal to decrease carbohydrate levels below 10% of energy and induce ketosis and a LF diet with a goal similar to national recommendations (%carbohydrate:fat:protein = ~60:25:15%). Subjects 15 healthy, overweight/obese men (mean ± s.e.m.: age 33.2 ± 2.9 y, body mass 109.1 ± 4.6 kg, body mass index 34.1 ± 1.1 kg/m2) and 13 premenopausal women (age 34.0 ± 2.4 y, body mass 76.3 ± 3.6 kg, body mass index 29.6 ± 1.1 kg/m2). Measurements Weight loss, body composition, trunk fat (by dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry), and resting energy expenditure (REE) were determined at baseline and after each diet intervention. Data were analyzed for between group differences considering the first diet phase only and within group differences considering the response to both diets within each person. Results Actual nutrient intakes from food records during the VLCK (%carbohydrate:fat:protein = ~9:63:28%) and the LF (~58:22:20%) were significantly different. Dietary energy was restricted, but was slightly higher during the VLCK (1855 kcal/day) compared to the LF (1562 kcal/day) diet for men. Both between and within group comparisons revealed a distinct advantage of a VLCK over a LF diet for weight loss, total fat loss, and trunk fat loss for men (despite significantly greater energy intake). The majority of women also responded more favorably to the VLCK diet, especially in terms of trunk fat loss. The greater reduction in trunk fat was not merely due to the greater total fat loss, because the ratio of trunk fat/total fat was also significantly reduced during the VLCK diet in men and women. Absolute REE (kcal/day) was decreased with both diets as expected, but REE expressed relative to body mass (kcal/kg), was better maintained on the VLCK diet for men only. Individual responses clearly show the majority of men and women experience greater weight and fat loss on a VLCK than a LF diet. Conclusion This study shows a clear benefit of a VLCK over LF diet for short-term body weight and fat loss, especially in men. A preferential loss of fat in the trunk region with a VLCK diet is novel and potentially clinically significant but requires further validation. These data provide additional support for the concept of metabolic advantage with diets representing extremes in macronutrient distribution. Keywords: weight loss, Atkins diet, hormones, abdominal fat, regional body composition, low-carbohydrate diet [...] > Ok, but what about the (supposed? real? I don't know) "metabolic benefit"? Longer studies have found that the weight loss evens out at about 6 mos to one year between LC and LF. Susan |
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