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Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / June 2005to drink, or not to drink, MILK
Saturday, June 18, 2005 on Quirks & Quarks Saturday right after the noon news on Radio One. http://radio.cbc.ca/programs/quirks/index.html Click on "Listen Live" CBC is national radio. Got Milk? Well, Maybe You Shouldn't ... by Alicia Priest It's nature's perfect drink, filled with the ideal mix of calcium, protein and nutrients. And for decades now, doctors, governments and health agencies have been urging us all to drink 3 to 4 glasses of milk everyday. But in recent years, more and more scientific studies have questioned the benefits of milk. And some have even linked it to diseases, ranging from juvenile diabetes to prostate cancer, even to osteoporosis - the very disease that milk is supposed to prevent. Plus - gliding through space on a solar sail... That's Quirks & Quarks, Saturday right after the noon news on Radio One. Funny how the milk supporters have some monetary commitment or haven't ben out of their foxhole for the last twenty years (assuming they are over 15 years old) I don't understand how sbh could actually see patients and not be milk wise. My doc used to tell me how milk was so necesary and good for you but now after 35 years of practice he advises against drinking it. A normal person learns from their own experiences. A smart person learns from other's experiences. A fool doen't learn from anybody's experiences. > Saturday, June 18, 2005 on Quirks & Quarks > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > That's Quirks & Quarks, Saturday right after the noon news on Radio > One. >Funny how the milk supporters have some monetary commitment or haven't ben >out of their foxhole for the last twenty years (assuming they are over 15 >years old) Its also funny how much of the anti-milk stuff we hear these days is coming from people with ties to the soy industry or PETA/vegetarian groups, etc. >A normal person learns from their own experiences. True and my experience with dairy has been a good one. :o) >A smart person learns from other's experiences. Yes and no. Should I give up a particular food just because someone I know has had a bad experience from that food even though I do not? >A fool doen't learn from anybody's experiences. Yup. p.s. BTW, my milk consumption is limited mostly my two cups of coffee per day now. rr >>A normal person learns from their own experiences. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Yes and no. Should I give up a particular food just because someone I >know has had a bad experience from that food even though I do not? The list of foods that disagree with someone, somewhere is endless. I wonder if Pizza Birl uses cheeses made from milk products on her pizza:) > The list of foods that disagree with someone, somewhere is endless. > I wonder if Pizza Girl uses cheeses made from milk products on > her pizza:) That is a good question for Pizza Girl. I do not eat pizza very often. I cannot digest the wheat crust. I do love it though. Cheese does not appear to give as many problems as the liquid poison. It has been predigested by enzyme cultures which helps break down the casein. Now when I find a good wheat substitute crust I do appreciate it. I, and my children, do not consume glasses of liquid poison daily. My children have self experimented with the white death occasionally only to find the same results the rest of us have. My children are 27, 25 & 21 years old can find out for themselves. The oldest two hate hospital emergency wards now. They lived there for their first 5 years. The youngest dabbles with chocolate milk occasionally but is quick to tell you how he is all full of mucus after doing it a second time. > > The list of foods that disagree with someone, somewhere is endless. > > I wonder if Pizza Girl uses cheeses made from milk products on > > her pizza:) > > That is a good question for Pizza Girl. Chocolate milk from the store is a no-no. When the pasteurizers get smuggy from scorched milk they make chocolate milk before cleaning them out. So it is best to make your own chocolate milk from scratch. A man from the USDA told me that. Ora >I do not eat pizza very often. I cannot digest the wheat crust. I do love it >though. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >first 5 years. The youngest dabbles with chocolate milk occasionally but is >quick to tell you how he is all full of mucus after doing it a second time. >>Chocolate milk from the store is a no-no. When the pasteurizers get smuggy from scorched milk they make chocolate milk before cleaning them out. So it is best to make your own chocolate milk from scratch. A man from the USDA told me that. << COMMENT: Well, damn me! That explains my long dislike of commercial chocolate milk. It used to taste good, but it seemed to me that since the late 70's it's tasted burned and crappy, with some kind of hydrocarbon like overtone, and I haven't liked it since. Though stuff made with normal milk and powdered chocolate from Hershey continues to taste fine to me. Ha! Some people can't taste the difference, though, or the crap wouldn't continue to sell. Which it does. SBH In the 70s they stopped making chocolate milk out of fresh milk. Now the dairies pick up the stale dated milk, flavour it, and put back on the shelf with new stale dates. But then you knew that being an expert on milk goodness. > >>Chocolate milk from the store is a no-no. When the pasteurizers get smuggy from > scorched milk they make chocolate milk before cleaning them out. So it [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > SBH > In the 70s they stopped making chocolate milk out of fresh milk. Now the > dairies pick up the stale dated milk, flavour it, and put back on the > shelf > with new stale dates. > > But then you knew that being an expert on milk goodness. ROTFL! Of all the asinine statements I have ever seen, that one ranks among the top few . . . right up there with "healthy people do not get AIDS, VD, cold or other viruses." --Rich >In the 70s they stopped making chocolate milk out of fresh milk. Now the >dairies pick up the stale dated milk, flavour it, and put back on the shelf >with new stale dates. > >But then you knew that being an expert on milk goodness. In the 70's stale milk got sour and flavoring it wouldn't have helped. Maybe they made buttermilk out of it though. In these days it doesn't get sour, it gets rotten. But they pasteurize it to death so it keeps on the shelf for two or three weeks before they have to throw it out. Sometimes they sterilize it then they don't even have to refrigerate it. Over-pasteurization kills the acid so now we have acidophulus milk which has the acid added back. That kind gets sour eventually. Also in the 70's the markets sometimes would store the milk in freezers and bring it out when they ran out before they got a new supply. They would leave it out to thaw and when the cartons quit sweating they would put them in the refrigerated section. But that sometimes undid the homogenization process so they quit doing that. Ora Someone wrote: > Chocolate milk from the store is a no-no. When the pasteurizers get smuggy from > scorched milk they make chocolate milk before cleaning them out. So it > is best to make your own chocolate milk from scratch. > A man from the USDA told me that. << "Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com" <sbharris@ix.netcom.com> replied: > Well, damn me! That explains my long dislike of commercial chocolate > milk. It used to taste good, but it seemed to me that since the late > 70's it's tasted burned and crappy, with some kind of hydrocarbon like > overtone, and I haven't liked it since. Though stuff made with normal Too bad white-colored cow's milk can't have a burnt, cooked flavor, too. Then maybe humans would not drink cow's milk. >Someone wrote: >> Chocolate milk from the store is a no-no. When the pasteurizers get [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >flavor, too. > Then maybe humans would not drink cow's milk. Have you ever used canned milk? What do think is the source of that "flavor". Ora > I do not eat pizza very often. I cannot digest the wheat crust. I do love it > though. That is the problem with pizza. Pizza is very good tasting food item. > Cheese does not appear to give as many problems as the liquid poison. It has > been predigested by enzyme cultures which helps break down the casein. That info is good to hear. > I, and my children, do not consume glasses of liquid poison daily. My > children have self experimented with the white death occasionally only to > find the same results the rest of us have. Do your children's taste buds like the taste of cow's milk? I encountered a little girl whose parents said their little girl's taste buds did NOT like the taste of cow's milk That was the first time I heard the idea that someone's taste buds do NOT like the taste of cow's milk. > My children are 27, 25 & 21 years old can find out for themselves. The > oldest two hate hospital emergency wards now. They lived there for their > first 5 years. The youngest dabbles with chocolate milk occasionally but is > quick to tell you how he is all full of mucus after doing it a second time. I bet your oldest two children also hate drinking cow's milk, too. After drinking pure water for 10 years, I might gag if I were to taste cow's milk now. > > I do not eat pizza very often. I cannot digest the wheat crust. I do love > it > > though. > > That is the problem with pizza. Pizza is very good tasting food > item. Try a real pizza! Put every veggie thing you normally enjoy on the pizza and forget the cow goo. The flavors are incredible. There are plenty of recipes available incorporating nutritional yeasts that can be drizzled on the pizza after it's cooked for those who absolutely must have the taste of solidified cow goo. > > Cheese does not appear to give as many problems as the liquid poison. It > has [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > After drinking pure water for 10 years, I might gag if I were to > taste cow's milk now. >>>I do not eat pizza very often. I cannot digest the wheat crust. I do love >>>it though. >> >> That is the problem with pizza. Pizza is very good tasting food item. > Try a real pizza! "Real" like in Italy? "Real" like in... where? > Put every veggie thing you normally enjoy on the pizza and forget the > cow goo. "Cow goo..." How clever. How dazzlingly adult an expression. > The flavors are incredible. The flavors are ordinary cooked vegetable flavors. Very credible, indeed. Your excited exclamation points make it sound like you think you've invented something new. <LOL> > There are plenty of recipes available incorporating nutritional yeasts > that can be drizzled on the pizza after it's cooked for those who > absolutely must have the taste of solidified cow goo. <LOL> This ersatz "food" is simply hilarious. And "cow goo" twice in the same post. What linguistic brilliance. One of the funniest posts in a long time. No, seriously... Pastorio >>>>I do not eat pizza very often. I cannot digest the wheat crust. I do >>>>love [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Pastorio Yeah, but what would someone named "Pastorio" know about REAL pizza? ;o) Rich >>>>> I do not eat pizza very often. I cannot digest the wheat >>>>> crust. I do love it though. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Yeah, but what would someone named "Pastorio" know about REAL pizza? Jeez. You're right. I never thought about that... No, seriously... Pastorio Yesa, This seems to go family wide after 20 years of reduced dairy consumption. When any of us see other gulping down a glass of milk, all I can think is "how disgusting" It's like a swallowing a glass of "cow snot" as it slithers down their throats. My son lectured in University about the dangers of milk drinking and got top recognition for it even though he is a honors Math guy....LOL That should tell you how much he misses milk. > > I do not eat pizza very often. I cannot digest the wheat crust. I do love > it [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > After drinking pure water for 10 years, I might gag if I were to > taste cow's milk now. >Yesa, This seems to go family wide after 20 years of reduced dairy >consumption. > >When any of us see other gulping down a glass of milk, all I can think is >"how disgusting" It's like a swallowing a glass of "cow snot" as it slithers >down their throats. And when you see a mother nursing her child, I suppose all you can think of (using whatever tiny vestiges of brain remain functional in your head) is that it's like the infant swallowing a glass of "human snot." What a dope you are. -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "Are you going to come quietly, or do I have to use earplugs?" -- The Goon Show >> > I do not eat pizza very often. I cannot digest the wheat crust. I do >love [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >to >> taste cow's milk now. > >Yesa, This seems to go family wide after 20 years of reduced dairy > >consumption. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > What a dope you are. What a dope you are. When I see a mother nursing, I know she cares for her child and is feeding that baby the starter pack that is designed for our species and ONLY our species. All other mammals have their own specifically designed baby formula. Most people would gag if they were offered human breast milk........so why shouldn't the same reflex occur at the sight of weaned humans consuming cow milk? You are a dope. You and Harris. > -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net > These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > >to > >> taste cow's milk now. >> >Yesa, This seems to go family wide after 20 years of reduced dairy >> >consumption. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >for our species and ONLY our species. All other mammals have their own >specifically designed baby formula. They aren't designed, you scientific illiterate. But they are probably better for the offspring than is some other mammal's milk. >Most people would gag if they were offered human breast milk........so >why shouldn't the same reflex occur at the sight of weaned humans >consuming cow milk? Because it's such a common sight. Any gagging is simply a self- induced problem. >You are a dope. You and Harris. I'm flattered to be grouped with him. Even if it's by a cretin like you. -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "Are you going to come quietly, or do I have to use earplugs?" -- The Goon Show >> >> > I do not eat pizza very often. I cannot digest the wheat crust. I do >> >love [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >> >to >> >> taste cow's milk now. > What a dope you are. When I see a mother nursing, I know she cares for > her child and is feeding that baby the starter pack that is designed > for our species and ONLY our species. All other mammals have their own > specifically designed baby formula. The cow's milk drinkers can not understand your statements above. Plus any female mammal's milk is only meant to nourish infants of that particular species but for a short time. > Most people would gag if they were offered human breast milk........so > why shouldn't the same reflex occur at the sight of weaned humans > consuming cow milk? btw, "banmilk", has any adult human reported what human mother's milk taste like? It tastes like week milk flavoured corn syrup. I carry some with me everywhere. > > What a dope you are. When I see a mother nursing, I know she cares for > > her child and is feeding that baby the starter pack that is designed [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > btw, "banmilk", has any adult human reported what human mother's > milk taste like? > > What a dope you are. When I see a mother nursing, I know she cares for > > her child and is feeding that baby the starter pack that is designed [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > btw, "banmilk", has any adult human reported what human mother's > milk taste like? If they have, I have not seen it on any of the newsgroups I've been on for the past 10 years. > > What a dope you are. When I see a mother nursing, I know she cares for > > her child and is feeding that baby the starter pack that is designed [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > btw, "banmilk", has any adult human reported what human mother's > milk taste like? Very sweet. I didn't particularly like it, nor did my husband. Didn't gag however. Lots of people with kids I know have tried it; most prefer cow's milk in their tea though. Cathy Cathy, that is about how my hubby and I felt about it too. Well I am off to get ready, being picked up here in a minute for breakfast. I prefer cow's milk in my coffee! ;-) UM Mom Susan > Very sweet. I didn't particularly like it, nor did my husband. Didn't > gag however. Lots of people with kids I know have tried it; most prefer > cow's milk in their tea though. > > Cathy >What a dope you are. When I see a mother nursing, I know she cares for >her child and is feeding that baby the starter pack that is designed >for our species and ONLY our species. All other mammals have their own >specifically designed baby formula. ooooh. It is a "starter pack" now. For your information the "starter pack is colostrum and bovine colostrum is the same as human colostrum. Commercial colostrum is from cows. Ora > >What a dope you are. When I see a mother nursing, I know she cares for > >her child and is feeding that baby the starter pack that is designed [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Ora Are you trying to suggest that the colostrums from humans and cows is PRECISELY identical in composition? >> >What a dope you are. When I see a mother nursing, I know she cares for >> >her child and is feeding that baby the starter pack that is designed [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Are you trying to suggest that the colostrums from humans and cows is >PRECISELY identical in composition? No, it's not precisely identical. There are differences but they are not necessarily useful differences. I don't think we feed bovine colostrum to infants. In fact a lot of infants don't even get human colostrum. I doubt any two specimens of colostrum are precisely identical in composition. Ora http://www.noahsquest.com/quest/products/questColostrumInGeneral.asp Scientific research conducted in the last decade in major medical research centers and universities throughout the world has shown that the combination of the immune and growth factors in cow colostrum are virtually identical to those in human colostrum. >When any of us see other gulping down a glass of milk, all I can think is >"how disgusting" It's like a swallowing a glass of "cow snot" as it slithers >down their throats. "David Wright" <wright@l1000.prodigy.net> replied: > And when you see a mother nursing her child, I suppose all you can > think of (using whatever tiny vestiges of brain remain functional in > your head) is that it's like the infant swallowing a glass of "human > snot." So, David, a human mother nursing her child uses cow's milk, right? Pizza Girl is only disgusted seeing humans drinking a glass of COW's milk. >>When any of us see other gulping down a glass of milk, all I can think is >>"how disgusting" It's like a swallowing a glass of "cow snot" as it [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Pizza Girl is only disgusted seeing humans drinking a glass of >COW's milk. George, if I hold up a glass of each from across the room, I doubt you'll be able to tell the difference. So if Pizza Face is indeed suffering such nausea, that's her problem and it's psychological, and who really cares? I was merely pointing out that if one kind of milk can be said to be "snot," they all can. -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "Are you going to come quietly, or do I have to use earplugs?" -- The Goon Show George Lagergren wrote: >>When any of us see other gulping down a glass of milk, all I can think is >>"how disgusting" It's like a swallowing a glass of "cow snot" as it [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > So, David, a human mother nursing her child uses cow's milk, right? George, lose the ideology long enough to actually read what's written. It's a *parallel* being struck to carry a ridiculous comment to its logical conclusion. "Snot" being the important word. > Pizza Girl is only disgusted seeing humans drinking a glass of > COW's milk. Could you possibly have missed the point more than you have...? I bet people have to explain jokes to you, too. Pastorio Is that short for "Pasteurio"? > George Lagergren wrote: > >>When any of us see other gulping down a glass of milk, all I can think is [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Pastorio > Is that short for "Pasteurio"? Is that all the wit you can muster? Have you met George? Kindred spirits. Pastorio >> George Lagergren wrote: >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >>> So, David, a human mother nursing her child uses cow's milk, >>>right? >> George, lose the ideology long enough to actually read what's >> written. It's a *parallel* being struck to carry a ridiculous [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> >> Pastorio Yer on the wrong newsgroup boyo. "Waiter!" ...all 'round on sci.med... Zee > > Is that short for "Pasteurio"? > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > >> > >> Pastorio > Do your children's taste buds like the taste of cow's milk? >I encountered a little girl whose parents said their little girl's taste >buds did NOT like the taste of cow's milk That was the first time I heard >the idea that someone's taste buds do NOT like the taste of cow's milk. What's so surprising about that? I've never heard of any food that 100% of the population likes. -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "Are you going to come quietly, or do I have to use earplugs?" -- The Goon Show This is the about the same for me except I gave up coffee in '82 and drink about two cups of tea mostly with cream. I don't go for the highly processed milk products. I do have a bowl if cereal (no gluten) once a week or so with milk or diluted cream on it. I do have my weaknesses and contrary to popular opinion I am not perfect, as yet. LOL > >Funny how the milk supporters have some monetary commitment or haven't ben > >out of their foxhole for the last twenty years (assuming they are over 15 [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > rr I like milk. Drink about one-half cup skim a day. (Surrounded by espresso); I also eat skim yogurt; have been known to enjoy a latte, a smear of cultured butter on a home-made oat scone; aged white cheddar. Zee On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 00:40:22 -0400, Pizza Girl wrote in <news:1119069362.2f37dc5e33c36fdbf0c24f9d150e8b9d@teranews> on sci.med.nutrition : [...] > My doc used to tell me how milk was so necesary and good for you but now > after 35 years of practice he advises against drinking it. Perhaps your doctor was wrong before and is wrong now as well... :) Perhaps he was wrong *before* because milk is not strictly "necessary", as far as I know. You can replace it with other foods, if you need to. Perhaps he is wrong *now* because I don't see reasons to advise everybody "against drinking it", regardless of individual tollerance or intollerance, quantities and type of milk, and so on.  SignatureEnrico C Pizza Girl wrote: > My doc used to tell me how milk was so necesary and good for you but now > after 35 years of practice he advises against drinking it. "Enrico C" <use_replyto_address@despammed.com> replied: > Perhaps he was wrong *before* because milk is not strictly "necessary", as > far as I know. You can replace it with other foods, if you need to. For 10 years now, I have replaced cow's milk with pure water. > Perhaps he is wrong *now* because I don't see reasons to advise everybody > "against drinking it", regardless of individual tollerance or intollerance, > quantities and type of milk, and so on. If Pizza Girl's doc were to read and understand the www.notmilk.com web site, he would realize why cow's milk may not be desirable for the human body. I wrote the site. > Pizza Girl wrote: > > My doc used to tell me how milk was so necesary and good for you but now [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > www.notmilk.com web site, he would realize why cow's milk may not be > desirable for the human body. > Funny how the milk supporters have some monetary commitment or haven't ben > out of their foxhole for the last twenty years (assuming they are over 15 [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > My doc used to tell me how milk was so necesary and good for you but now > after 35 years of practice he advises against drinking it. Did your doc come to that conclusion that cow's milk is bad for humans by his own research or by listening to patients relay their own bad experinces from drinking cow's milk? > A normal person learns from their own experiences. > A smart person learns from other's experiences. > A fool doen't learn from anybody's experiences. A real health nut learns from their own experiences and from other's experiences. By listening to the repeated cases of ear infections, strep throat, pnuemonia and many other things. If his medical association found out they would probably blackball him. The Dark Side is very powerful. > > Funny how the milk supporters have some monetary commitment or haven't > ben [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > A real health nut learns from their own experiences and from > other's experiences. > Saturday, June 18, 2005 on Quirks & Quarks > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > diseases, ranging from juvenile diabetes to prostate cancer, even to > osteoporosis - the very disease that milk is supposed to prevent. Good information. On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 14:58:49 GMT, George Lagergren wrote in <news:JEWse.6826$eM6.3084@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net> on sci.med.nutrition,alt.health,misc.health.alternative : >> Saturday, June 18, 2005 on Quirks & Quarks >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> health agencies have been urging us all to drink 3 to 4 glasses of milk >> everyday. I think it's not "nature's perfect drink". It's a food as other foods, with its pros and cons. And, as for any food, *quantity* and *type* count. >> But in recent years, more and more scientific studies have >> questioned the benefits of milk. And some have even linked it to >> diseases, ranging from juvenile diabetes to prostate cancer, even to >> osteoporosis - the very disease that milk is supposed to prevent. > Good information. "Some have linked it to..." might be said for virtually anything. X'Posted to: sci.med.nutrition,alt.health,misc.health.alternative SignatureEnrico C it-alt.viaggi.londra (Per quelli che... Ci vediamo a Piccadilly) >Saturday, June 18, 2005 on Quirks & Quarks > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >That's Quirks & Quarks, Saturday right after the noon news on Radio >One. Milk is not the same as it used to be. It used to get sour after a week or so but now it spoils. They pasteurize it at higher temps and sometimes I get a carton that just doesn't go bad. Probably ultra-pasteurized or sterilized without stating so on the label. I don't drink milk regularly and sometimes it sits in the fridge for a long time. The expiration dates are much longer than they used to be so they are doing something to it. But sometimes it goes bad in only a few days. It wouldn't surprise me if they take it back when it expires and put it in new cartons with new expiration dates. Ora |
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