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Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / August 2005Turkey vs ham
I often have a healthy sandwich of turkey for lunch but I am getting tired of it. Is a low fat ham a suitable replacement for turkey? They seem to have the same fat content. Thanks.... Sandwiches are never healthy. You should not be combining starchy carbs with proteins. They cannot be digested at the same time. > I often have a healthy sandwich of turkey for lunch but I am getting > tired of it. Is a low fat ham a suitable replacement for turkey? They > seem to have the same fat content. > > Thanks.... > Sandwiches are never healthy. You should not be combining starchy carbs > with > proteins. They cannot be digested at the same time. I wish you would learn to put your comments below the OP's comments. It shows respect for the other members of the group because it makes it easier to follow the conversation. Your comment about starchy carbs and proteins not being able to be digested at the same time is totally incorrect. Starchy carbs start to get digested in the mouth by salivary amilase. The carbs are digested to simple sugars in the stomach and small intestine. The protein, likewsie, is broken down in the stomach and small intestine into amino acids by other enzymes. This goes on simulatenously. So starchy carbs and proteins *are* digested at the same time without any problems. Jeff >> I often have a healthy sandwich of turkey for lunch but I am getting >> tired of it. Is a low fat ham a suitable replacement for turkey? They >> seem to have the same fat content. >> >> Thanks.... Ok I have corrected the thread. Please stop trolling. You're too obvious to warrant heated responses. Troll effort: 6 Troll effectiveness: 2 > I wish you would learn to put your comments below the OP's comments. It > shows respect for the other members of the group because it makes it easier [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Jeff > > Sandwiches are never healthy. You should not be combining starchy carbs > > with [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >> > >> Thanks.... > Ok I have corrected the thread. Please stop trolling. You're too obvious > to > warrant heated responses. > > Troll effort: 6 > Troll effectiveness: 2 ROTFL. I also wish you would address the question at hand (which I am doing below - i forgot to do it earlier). As for the original question, there is no reason not to eat ham instead of turkey. The fat content is nearly the same. ------------ Followup question for Pizza Girl: Can you please explain why carbs and proteins cannot be digested at the same time? They are digested by different enzymes from the salivary glands and pancreas. I see no reason why they can't be digested at the same time. And, as far as I know, I have been digesting proteins and carbs at the same time ever since I have been eating peanut butter and jelly on raison bread, beginning about 38 or 39 years ago (I was probably eating them since I was 1 or 2), without any ill effects. And I enjoy eating ham on rye (with the seeds). And people (including me) have been eating pot roast and potatoes, meat lover's pizza (with pepperoni, ham, cheese, beef, chicken and, of course, ham), turkey and mashed potatoes, chicken and biscits and shepard's pie for years. The ill effects of not being able to digest something would include inability to gain weight, upset stomach, gas and diarrhea. I don't suffer from upset stomach, diarrhea or gas (although some of the people around me suffer from my gas), and certainly, not being able to gain weight has never been an issue with me. Jeff (...) Well the gas tells everybody that you are not digesting properly and the food sits and rots producing gas. I guess if you like all those foods then they must be OK for you. LOL > > Ok I have corrected the thread. Please stop trolling. You're too obvious > > to [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > (...) > Well the gas tells everybody that you are not digesting properly and the > food sits and rots producing gas. That's not correct. It tells everyone that I am digesting normally. Everyone produces gas. The average person passes gas about once an hour. Producing and passing gas is a normal part of digestion. > I guess if you like all those foods then they must be OK for you. Only in moderation. Eating too much of anything is not good. Can you please explain why you think starchy carbs and proteins cannot be digested at the same time? Thanks. Jeff > LOL >> [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] >> >> (...) The gas is telling you not to eat beans, but instead something like Rapadura sugar, which is very easy to digest. It is well known that some simple sugar is needed with high quality protein (and poor quality protein should just not be eaten). Read "The Modern Nutritional Diseases" by the biochemist Ottoboni couple, for example. If eating carbs and protein at the same time prevented digestion, there would be many millions of people in the "advanced nations" dropping dea of malnutrition all over the place, because that's how almost everyone eats. A little common sense here please! > The gas is telling you not to eat beans, but instead something like > Rapadura sugar, which is very easy to digest. Actually, the gas is because of bacterial action in my gut as well as air I swallow during the day. It is perfectly normal. If I want sugar that is easy to digest, I would just drink or eat glucose. Jeff Most people don't buy glucose, nor do most stores sell glucose. They sell a substance that is a combination of sugar isomers, but mostly sucrose. Rapadura is high in potassium and vitamin A (relative to other common sugar sources) and has decent trace levels of other important minerals. It also has a distinctive taste, not at all like "white sugar." According to your claim, the sugar should also cause upset, because the bacteria is getting something to chew on, so to speak. And if you swallow air while eating, it doesn't matter what you eat - the effects should be the same. Therefore, you need to at least clarify your point here. In my experience, a diet high in "complex carbs" is just asking for intestinal upset, and possible long-term damage. After many years on this kind of diet, I almost died because my body stopped digesting food. Now, on a diet with all easily digestible food, I have no problems (I did have to use stomach acid and pepsin to aid digestion, and I still use them now), that is, no gas, bloating, grumbling, etc. (except to a very minor degree if I eat much more than usual). Your body is telling you something here, but if you refuse to listen, don't be surprised when your doctor says, "I've got some bad new for you." > Most people don't buy glucose, nor do most stores sell glucose. They > sell a substance that is a combination of sugar isomers, but mostly [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > According to your claim, the sugar should also cause upset, because the > bacteria is getting something to chew on, so to speak. Only if the sugar gets through to the ilium. But it is absorbed before then in healthy people. > And if you > swallow air while eating, it doesn't matter what you eat - the effects > should be the same. Therefore, you need to at least clarify your point > here. The point is that passing gas is a normal part of physiology. > In my experience, a diet high in "complex carbs" is just asking for > intestinal upset, and possible long-term damage. Then don't eat them. > After many years on > this kind of diet, I almost died because my body stopped digesting [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > body is telling you something here, but if you refuse to listen, don't > be surprised when your doctor says, "I've got some bad new for you." I can't help but wonder if you have cystic fibrosis. Jeff Passing gas is not part of normal digestion and when you learn to eat properly you will discover this. > > Most people don't buy glucose, nor do most stores sell glucose. They > > sell a substance that is a combination of sugar isomers, but mostly [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Jeff > Passing gas is not part of normal digestion and when you learn to eat > properly you will discover this.p I eat properly. And I fart. It is part of normal physiology. We swallow gas while we eat, drink and a little bit during the day. Did you ever see a abdominal x-ray? The stomach normally has gas in it. And the intestinal contents have little pockets of air. The air is not absorbed by the intestines. And bacteria make gas, as well. It is part of normal digestion. http://www.medicinenet.com/intestinal_gas_belching_bloating_flatulence/page3.htm#tocc http://kidshealth.org/kid/talk/yucky/fart.html http://www.baptistonline.org/health/library/dige3506.asp Jeff (..) ::: Passing gas is not part of normal digestion and when you learn to ::: eat properly you will discover this.p [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] :: :: It is part of normal digestion. I agree with Pizza Girl here. Previously I thought that having gas is normal but after getting digestion to good shape by proper food combining and supplemental lactid acid bacteria, I have had to change my views. When the digestion works very well, no gas or almost no gas is made. If the aim is proper digestion and absorption of nutrients, combining concentrated proteins and concentrated carbs is not recommendable. However, if one has problems in blood sugar control, those combinations help to balance blood sugar levels. Personally I follow some food combining rules but not very strictly.  SignatureJuhana > ::: Passing gas is not part of normal digestion and when you learn to > ::: eat properly you will discover this.p [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > supplemental lactid acid bacteria, I have had to change my views. When the > digestion works very well, no gas or almost no gas is made. That's incorrect. You may not perceive gas passing, but it is made. > If the aim is proper digestion and absorption of nutrients, combining > concentrated proteins and concentrated carbs is not recommendable. Why? Please provide real evidence. > However, > if one has problems in blood sugar control, those combinations help to > balance blood sugar levels. Personally I follow some food combining rules > but not very strictly. If one is having problem with blood sugar control, one should lose weight and excercise. Jeff ::: Jeff wrote: :::::: Passing gas is not part of normal digestion and when you learn to [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] :: :: That's incorrect. You may not perceive gas passing, but it is made. Are you a special case farting through the skin or how does it happen? LOL ::: If the aim is proper digestion and absorption of nutrients, ::: combining concentrated proteins and concentrated carbs is not ::: recommendable. :: :: Why? Please provide real evidence. As I said: "There is competition among some B-vitamins and it is not any urban legend. I have *seen* an abstract posted to sci.med.nutrition about this. That was about half a year ago. According to that abstract taking some isolated vitamin B reduced the amount of some other vitamin B. But at the moment I can not figure out how to find that study again. (That study was not about B12 masking folate deficiency but something else.)" I hope that someone finds that study. ::: However, ::: if one has problems in blood sugar control, those combinations help [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] :: If one is having problem with blood sugar control, one should lose :: weight and excercise. There are several ways to improve blood sugar control and combining carbs with protein is one of them as many diabetics and people with impared insulin sensitivity know. There are actually whole books written based on this idea of improving insulin sensitity by food combining - just to mention The Insulin Resistance Diet by Hart & Grossman (Contemporary Books 2001). SignatureJuhana I agree with Jeff and even Pizza Girl to an extent. To achieve a total fart-free existence is a pipe-dream. It is normal, even for people on low/er-carb diets although they register much lower on the fartometer scale than say ... a vegetarian or someone a high-carb omnivorous diet. rr >> Passing gas is not part of normal digestion and when you learn to eat >> properly you will discover this.p [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >Jeff >(..) ::: "Pizza Girl" wrote: :::: Passing gas is not part of normal digestion and when you learn to :::: eat properly you will discover this. :: I agree with Jeff and even Pizza Girl to an extent. To achieve a :: total fart-free existence is a pipe-dream. It is normal, even for :: people on low/er-carb diets although they register much lower on the :: fartometer scale than say ... a vegetarian or someone a high-carb :: omnivorous diet. It seems that you have not had experiences at the lower end of the fartometer index. SignatureJuhana >::: "Pizza Girl" wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >It seems that you have not had experiences at the lower end of the >fartometer index. Despite my name I'm not on a vegetarian diet. I try to keep grain and fruit consumption to a moderate level. I probably register on the bottom quarter (pun not intended) of the fartometer. rr :: Juhana Harju wrote: ::: Roger Rabbit wrote: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] :: fruit consumption to a moderate level. I probably register on the :: bottom quarter (pun not intended) of the fartometer. The digestive bacteria becomes accustomed to the vegetarian diet (the bifidus bacteria increases and bacteroides decrease) and so the production of gas is no problem in the long run. I know this also from my own experience as I _was_ a vegetarian for a long time. SignatureJuhana > I agree with Jeff and even Pizza Girl to an extent. To achieve a total > fart-free existence is a pipe-dream. "Gas in the gastrointestinal tract has only two sources. It is either swallowed air or it is produced by bacteria that normally inhabit the intestines, primarily the colon. Swallowed air is rarely the cause of excessive flatulence. The usual source is the production of excessive gas by intestinal bacteria. The bacteria produce the gas (hydrogen and/or methane) when they digest foods, primarily sugars and polysaccharides (e.g., starch, cellulose), that have not been digested during passage through the small intestine. Sugars that are commonly poorly digested (maldigested) and malabsorbed are lactose, sorbitol, and fructose." <http://www.medicinenet.com/intestinal_gas_belching_bloating_flatulence/page3.htm> > It is normal, even for people on > low/er-carb diets although they register much lower on the fartometer > scale than say ... a vegetarian or someone a high-carb omnivorous > diet. People who eat larger portions of fiber fart the most, especially if they wash it down with a cold fizzy drink. And a pickled egg. <whew> Pastorio >>>Passing gas is not part of normal digestion and when you learn to eat >>>properly you will discover this.p [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >>Jeff >>(..) > > I agree with Jeff and even Pizza Girl to an extent. To achieve a total > > fart-free existence is a pipe-dream. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Pastorio ROFL!!! Sounds like you speak from experience! ;-D Corn on the cob and devilled eggs anyone??? It _was_ just the 4th of July!!! SignatureOm. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson >>People who eat larger portions of fiber fart the most, especially if >>they wash it down with a cold fizzy drink. And a pickled egg. <whew> >> >>Pastorio > > ROFL!!! Sounds like you speak from experience! ;-D I used to own restaurants and bars. With exhaust fans. Pastorio > >>People who eat larger portions of fiber fart the most, especially if > >>they wash it down with a cold fizzy drink. And a pickled egg. <whew> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Pastorio Ah. Beer and pickled eggs....... and pretzels? <smirk> SignatureOm. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson >> People who eat larger portions of fiber fart the most, especially if >> they wash it down with a cold fizzy drink. And a pickled egg. <whew> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Corn on the cob and devilled eggs anyone??? Only if I can wash it down with a beer! :o. rr > >> People who eat larger portions of fiber fart the most, especially if > >> they wash it down with a cold fizzy drink. And a pickled egg. <whew> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > rr That's what holidays are all about, no? ;-) SignatureOm. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson > Ok I have corrected the thread. No you haven't, and you've managed to make it even worse than your normal top-posting does. > Please stop trolling. Sounds like trolling is another USENET term you don't understand. MattLB > Your comment about starchy carbs and proteins not being able to be > digested [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > So starchy carbs and proteins *are* digested at the same time without any > problems. Starches are digested in a neutral or alkaline environment; proteins are digested in an acid environment. See any biochem book. Clearly, one can not have alkaline and acid in the same stomach simultaneously; thus disproving your claim. A little self-experimentation will prove the difficulty of digesting concentrated pro and concentrated cho in the same meal. Laurie > Sandwiches are never healthy. You should not be combining starchy carbs > with > proteins. They cannot be digested at the same time. what an utter nonsense. where is the explanation for that ridiculous "can't digest protein and starch at the same time" theory? >> I often have a healthy sandwich of turkey for lunch but I am getting >> tired of it. Is a low fat ham a suitable replacement for turkey? They >> seem to have the same fat content. >> >> Thanks.... That's OK. We have never gotten or expected any more from you than potshots anyway. Read up. Try to google some things and find out. > > Sandwiches are never healthy. You should not be combining starchy carbs > > with [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >> > >> Thanks.... > That's OK. We have never gotten or expected any more from you than > potshots > anyway. do you have a split personality or do you generally talk in plural of yourself? > Read up. Try to google some things and find out. yes, google obviously is the golden standard when it comes to valid information.. for you at least. >> > Sandwiches are never healthy. You should not be combining starchy carbs >> > with [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> >> >> >> Thanks.... |
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