Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / June 2005
question about diabetes - nutrition and exercise.
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Thomas Muffaletto - 10 Jun 2005 16:33 GMT I am a 41 year old type 2 diabetic. I have recently restarted my work outs and have notices a big increase in the carbs I am able to eat - while still keeping it low fat. I hope someone can answer this. what are the chances that I can build up to eating enough carbs that I can body build again? thank you
 Signature Tom Exercise Today = Life Tomorrow
Information you can trust from the diabetes experts... Your American Diabetes Association http://www.diabetes.org/home.jsp the American Diabetes Association's Message Boards http://community.diabetes.org/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=amdiabetesz&nav=index Chat Live with Mr. Gantlet http://profiles.yahoo.com/mrgantlet911
TC - 10 Jun 2005 16:39 GMT > I am a 41 year old type 2 diabetic. > I have recently restarted my work outs and have notices a big increase [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Chat Live with Mr. Gantlet > http://profiles.yahoo.com/mrgantlet911 You must get this book and read it cover to cover:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0316099066/qid=1118417874/sr=2-1/ref=pd_b bs_b_2_1/002-7715327-4637647
Trust me. It will save your life.
The American Diabetes Associatiob diet will kill you.
TC
Thomas Muffaletto - 10 Jun 2005 17:38 GMT >> I am a 41 year old type 2 diabetic. >> I have recently restarted my work outs and have notices a big increase [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Trust me. It will save your life. no I would rather not.
> The American Diabetes Associatiob diet will kill you. lol well thank you anyway.
> TC TC - 10 Jun 2005 18:02 GMT > >> I am a 41 year old type 2 diabetic. > >> I have recently restarted my work outs and have notices a big increase [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > > TC I did not mean to be flip about it. And I did not post it just to be an a.s. I am serious, you've got to read the book. Read it, and if you think it's crap, fine. But you have to read it.
The American Diabetes Association is funded by the companies that make billions of dollars from selling insulin, blood glucose monitoring equipment, blood glucose medications and various foods, mostly refined carbs.
http://www.diabetes.org/support-the-cause/corporate-friends/Corporate-Recognition.jsp
I would not buy a used cars from the ADA. They are not protecting the interest of diabetic people, they are protecting the interests of those making a profit from the disease.
TC
Jeff - 10 Jun 2005 18:07 GMT (...)
> I did not mean to be flip about it. And I did not post it just to be an > a.s. I am serious, you've got to read the book. Read it, and if you > think it's crap, fine. But you have to read it. Actually, other than your opinion, there is no reason for him to read the book.
> The American Diabetes Association is funded by the companies that make > billions of dollars from selling insulin, blood glucose monitoring > equipment, blood glucose medications and various foods, mostly refined > carbs. Actually, these companies sell products that help diabetics, including the food companies. The food companies are not forcing anyone to eat the unhealthy foods.
> http://www.diabetes.org/support-the-cause/corporate-friends/Corporate-Recognition.jsp > > I would not buy a used cars from the ADA. They are not protecting the > interest of diabetic people, they are protecting the interests of those > making a profit from the disease. How about showing us where the advice the ADA gives is incorrect or not in the best interest of the people with diabetes.
Jeff
> TC TC - 10 Jun 2005 19:04 GMT > (...) > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > > TC Read the book. Start by reading the reviews at amazon. Then read the book. You can probably get it for free thru your local libraries inter-library loan program.
Once you've read the book and decided whether it makes sense or not, and you've actually applied it to your situation, compare it to the advice given by ADA.
Bernstein knows what causes the problem (diabetes T2) and shows you how to control blood sugar levels and reverse some of the damage caused by diabetes. He shows you how to live a long and healthy life in spite of diabetes T2. He, himself, is a diabetic (T1), and the ADA diet almost killed him 50 years ago. He was a trained engineer before he became a doctor. He meticulously figured out the effects of various foods on blood glucose levels and developed a treatment for himself. His treatment has kept him fit and healthy all that time. Read the reviews at amazon.
The ADA tells you that they don't know what causes diabetes T2, that you should eat anything you want and, oh by the way, when your blood sugar levels spike, monitor it with their sponsors blood monitoring equipment, and, oh by the way, take your insulin (that you bought from their sponsors), and bring your sugar levels down by using (their sponsors, by the way) blood glucose controlling medications. They tell you that they do not know what causes the problem but they presume to tell you how to treat it. Of course, by using their sponsors products.
TC
Jeff - 10 Jun 2005 19:35 GMT (...)
>> How about showing us where the advice the ADA gives is incorrect or not >> in [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > The ADA tells you that they don't know what causes diabetes T2, Seems like they know what causes T2: http://www.diabetes.org/type-2-diabetes.jsp
> that > you should eat anything you want and, that you need to make healthy food choices: http://www.diabetes.org/nutrition-and-recipes/nutrition/overview.jsp
> oh by the way, when your blood > sugar levels spike, monitor it with their sponsors blood monitoring [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > you that they do not know what causes the problem but they presume to > tell you how to treat it. Of course, by using their sponsors products. I did not see any pages like this. In fact, they emphasize diet and excercise to treat and prevent diabetes.
I don't expect you to hop on the ADA bandwagon. I just wanted to point out to other readers that you were inaccurate in your statements.
Jeff
> TC TC - 10 Jun 2005 20:08 GMT > (...) > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Seems like they know what causes T2: > http://www.diabetes.org/type-2-diabetes.jsp Did you even read that webpage? They tell you what diabetes is, not what causes it. I challenge you to find anything from the ADA that specifically describes the cause of diabetes T2.
> > that > > you should eat anything you want and, > > that you need to make healthy food choices: > http://www.diabetes.org/nutrition-and-recipes/nutrition/overview.jsp http://www.diabetes.org/nutrition-and-recipes/nutrition/healthy-diet.jsp
"People with diabetes can eat the same foods the family enjoys. Everyone benefits from healthy eating so the whole family can take part in healthy eating. It takes some planning but you can fit your favorite foods into your meal plan and still manage your blood glucose, blood pressure and cholesterol."
In other words, eat pretty much what you want. They assure you that you can still "manage" your blood glucose levels. How would you do that if not by diet? You would do that by using more insulin, more blood glucose lowering meds and, of course, constantly using a blood glucose monitor.
And they do not even mention the glycemic index or the blood glucose response from high-GI foods. They basically advocate less fats in the diet to control weight.
http://www.diabetes.org/nutrition-and-recipes/nutrition/rate-your-plate.jsp
"About one-fourth of your plate should be filled with grains or starchy foods such as rice, pasta, potatoes, corn, or peas."
What do you think that these grains and starchy foods are going to do to your blood glucose levels? The bg levels will spike dramatically, which will *require* the use of injected insulin and blood glucose lowering meds. Bernstein will suggest that you minimize these foods and not even start the cycle that will force you to take insulin and blood glucose lowering drugs. Nipping the problem in the bud, rather than after the high bg does its damage.
The ADA wants you to treat the symptoms, Bernstein will teach you how to treat the cause.
> > oh by the way, when your blood > > sugar levels spike, monitor it with their sponsors blood monitoring [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Jeff There was nothing inaccurate in my statements. Read what the ADA says very carefully, and with at least a mildly critical eye.
Read the book too with as much of a critical eye as you can muster. Read the reviews. This book should be absolutely required reading for anyone with diabetes or metabolic syndrome.
TC
Jeff - 10 Jun 2005 22:58 GMT >> (...) >> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > what causes it. I challenge you to find anything from the ADA that > specifically describes the cause of diabetes T2. http://www.diabetes.org/genetics.jsp
>> > that >> > you should eat anything you want and, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > foods into your meal plan and still manage your blood glucose, blood > pressure and cholesterol." That is not the same thing as saying you *should* eat whatever you want.
This also implies that the regular family diet has to change, as well.
> In other words, eat pretty much what you want. While it says that you can fit whatever food you like into your diet, it doesn't say how much you can fit in. For example, if you love steak, you can fit steak into your diet. it doesn't' say you can eat as much steak as you want. Or any other food.
> They assure you that you > can still "manage" your blood glucose levels. How would you do that if > not by diet? They mean manage by adjusting your diet by limiting total calories and eating less of the less healthy foods (like not eating much cake). I believe you don't understand what the site is trying to say.
> You would do that by using more insulin, more blood > glucose lowering meds and, of course, constantly using a blood glucose > monitor. You do that by eating a healthy diet. A healthy diet doesn't mean you have to give up your favoriate foods, although it does mean that you have to limit them (how much depends on what they are: If you love cake topped with icing, you have to limit this quite severely - I would say to about one spoonful, at most; if you love green peppers, you can safely eat more).
> And they do not even mention the glycemic index or the blood glucose > response from high-GI foods. They basically advocate less fats in the [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > The ADA wants you to treat the symptoms, Bernstein will teach you how > to treat the cause. They also state: 'You may need to count the carbohydrates or exchanges in your meal so you can be sure your insulin and exercise are on target. But "rating your plate" will get you started.'
I agree that is a good way to *start*. Not to finish.
One needs to work with his/her nutritionist, doctors and other professionals.
And don't forget, diabetes is a disease of fat *and* glucose metabolism, not just glucose metabolism.
>> > oh by the way, when your blood >> > sugar levels spike, monitor it with their sponsors blood monitoring [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > There was nothing inaccurate in my statements. Read what the ADA says > very carefully, and with at least a mildly critical eye. I have. I believe that your statments are inaccurate.
> Read the book too with as much of a critical eye as you can muster. > Read the reviews. This book should be absolutely required reading for > anyone with diabetes or metabolic syndrome. I am not going to waste my money on that book.
Jeff
> TC TC - 11 Jun 2005 05:32 GMT > I am not going to waste my money on that book. > > Jeff Well, go to the library. That's free. Personally, if I was diagnosed with a disease that threatens the eventual amputation of my extremities, creeping blindness and impotence among many, many, other problems, I would be reading absolutely everything I can get my hands on. Now that doesn't mean I would believe everything I read, I just think it would be really valuable to get other points of view and the benefits of differing expertises. I would just read it all to be thorough in my research and be as certain as possible that I fully understand the reasons and the methods of treatment available to me. I most certainly would not put my health completely in the hands of the typical medical doctor that has in almost every case almost zero education in nutrition, especially for such a diet related disorder as diabetes T2. You have to take ownership of this problem becuase it can't harm your doctor, it can only harm you. He profits by treating you.
I'll bet you dollars to donuts that before too much time passes with you on the ADA diet you will have some nasty health problems. You will not get better. You will either, at best, remain the same or, at worse, more likely will get more and more health problems related to both the effects of the diabetes and high bg levels and the side-effects of the medication. The ADA diet has helped no-one actually get better, short or long term.
Remember the basic truth that no pill or combination of pills or injection or series of injections will ever make you healthy again. All it can do is mask the symptoms as the disease progresses and ravages you from the inside out. And most of these meds will have their own nasty side effects too.
Make a note of the name and author of the book, at some point you may desperately want to read it.
I honestly wish you all the best. Good luck.
TC
Thomas Muffaletto - 11 Jun 2005 08:40 GMT >The ADA diet has helped no-one actually get better, short > or long term. well you have no idea just how wrong you are :). I have had diabetes for 2 1/2 years. in 6 months I got off all medications and have always been in the 5% club. thats what I mean - if you really know about nutrition you would know just how wrong that statement is - and thats pretty sad that some would still push it even tho they dont believe it. or there are some really well written fools out there that are easily sold. sorry but I do take offense if someone implys that I am not taking care of my diabetes because I dont follow the diet they push or the book they are trying to sell.
 Signature Tom Exercise Today = Life Tomorrow
Information you can trust from the diabetes experts... Your American Diabetes Association http://www.diabetes.org/home.jsp the American Diabetes Association's Message Boards http://community.diabetes.org/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=amdiabetesz&nav=index Chat Live with Mr. Gantlet http://profiles.yahoo.com/mrgantlet911
> Remember the basic truth that no pill or combination of pills or > injection or series of injections will ever make you healthy again. All [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > TC George Lagergren - 11 Jun 2005 16:20 GMT > Well, go to the library. That's free. Personally, if I was diagnosed > with a disease that threatens the eventual amputation of my [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > can't harm your doctor, it can only harm you. He profits by treating > you. TC, remember, Jeff may be a kid's doc. Jeff's income may be harmed if folks learn how to treat diabetes the natural way.
Jeff - 13 Jun 2005 02:37 GMT >> Well, go to the library. That's free. Personally, if I was diagnosed >> with a disease that threatens the eventual amputation of my [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > TC, remember, Jeff may be a kid's doc. Jeff's income may be > harmed if folks learn how to treat diabetes the natural way. What is the natural way to treat diabetes?
Jeff
Jeff - 13 Jun 2005 02:35 GMT >> I am not going to waste my money on that book. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > problems, I would be reading absolutely everything I can get my hands > on. I wouldn't. I would read only high-quality books and other materials.
> Now that doesn't mean I would believe everything I read, I just > think it would be really valuable to get other points of view and the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > can't harm your doctor, it can only harm you. He profits by treating > you. You're absolutely correct about the patient having to take ownership of the problem. After all, who is going to suffer if you don't control your diabetes? And who will benefit?
> I'll bet you dollars to donuts that before too much time passes with > you on the ADA diet you will have some nasty health problems. You will [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > medication. The ADA diet has helped no-one actually get better, short > or long term. However, actually following the diet, eating less and getting more excercise has helped many people.
> Remember the basic truth that no pill or combination of pills or > injection or series of injections will ever make you healthy again. All > it can do is mask the symptoms as the disease progresses and ravages > you from the inside out. And most of these meds will have their own > nasty side effects too. I agree that taking ownership of the problem, eating well, and getting lots of excercise is the only way to go with diabetes. While medications are helpful, the goal should be to have normal blood glucose and lipids at all times without any medication. And don't forget that diabetes is a disease of glucose and fat metabolism.
Jeff
> Make a note of the name and author of the book, at some point you may > desperately want to read it. > > I honestly wish you all the best. Good luck. > > TC Pizza Girl - 13 Jun 2005 02:42 GMT Where's your bottom posting now troll boy?
> >> I am not going to waste my money on that book. > >> [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > > > > TC Jeff - 13 Jun 2005 03:20 GMT > Where's your bottom posting now troll boy? what are you talking about? Proper nettiquette is to interlace your comments with the previous poster's comments, with your answers directly below the previous poster's comments you are responding to, so that it is much easier to follow the thread. I apologise if I was not clear about this in the past.
Jeff
>> >> I am not going to waste my money on that book. >> >> [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] >> > >> > TC Pizza Girl - 13 Jun 2005 04:13 GMT Where did you imagine this "netiquette" from?
Bottom posting is ludicrous and obsoleted by threading browsers. Why would anybody saperate headers from text? Browsers were never meant to bottom post.
See what happenned to your bottom post? Your header is at the top and attributed to me.
>> Where's your bottom posting now troll boy? > [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > >> > > >> > TC Jeff - 13 Jun 2005 05:08 GMT > Where did you imagine this "netiquette" from? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netiquette
See the part about not top-posting.
And see point # 6: http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php. I just wish I remembered the term inline posting.
> Bottom posting is ludicrous and obsoleted by threading browsers. What is a threading browser?
> Why would > anybody saperate headers from text? Because with the >'s that you put in front of the quoted text, it is pretty easy to figure out who said what.
> Browsers were never meant to bottom > post. Inline posting is the answer.
> See what happenned to your bottom post? Your header is at the top and > attributed to me. I don't see what you mean. I see two lines for the header (with >> infront of them) and one line write below that that you wrote in the example below.
Jeff
>>> Where's your bottom posting now troll boy? >> [quoted text clipped - 89 lines] >> >> > >> >> > TC Pizza Girl - 14 Jun 2005 00:20 GMT I rest my case.
> > Where did you imagine this "netiquette" from? > [quoted text clipped - 121 lines] > >> >> > > >> >> > TC Jeff - 14 Jun 2005 19:44 GMT >I rest my case. What grounds do you rest your case? That I am correct that top-posting is inappropriate?
It is much easier to read in-line posts and follow conversations.
What you are telling us is that you think you are so unimportant that your conversaton is not worth reading.
Jeff
>> > Where did you imagine this "netiquette" from? >> [quoted text clipped - 144 lines] >> >> >> > >> >> >> > TC Mr-Natural-Health - 13 Jun 2005 14:48 GMT > Where did you imagine this "netiquette" from?
>From experience gained from using browsers and interacting with people. But, I do believe that there is an Usenet netiquette FAQ that recommends bottom posting.
> Bottom posting is ludicrous and obsoleted by threading browsers. Where did you imagine that nonsense from? Too much pizza and not enough exercise I would imagine.
> See what happenned to your bottom post? Your header is at the top and > attributed to me. Hey Dumb Arse! Try editing your quotes, A-hole.
Just my opinion, but I am right as usual. :)
Pizza Girl - 14 Jun 2005 00:20 GMT Stop putting your attachments before you text jerkwad.
> > Where did you imagine this "netiquette" from? > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Just my opinion, but I am right as usual. :) Mr-Natural-Health - 14 Jun 2005 07:17 GMT > Stop putting your attachments before you text jerkwad. No!
Just thought that you might want to know. :)
calypso47@voyager.net - 12 Jun 2005 01:12 GMT "The ADA wants you to treat the symptoms, Bernstein will teach you how to treat the cause."
He doesn't say carbohydrates is the cause, that is the spin you bring to and force upon his writing. He would agree with others about the cause and it is not because people eat carbohydrates. His disagreement with the ada is about blood glucose management. He suggests techniques for weight loss, exercise, diet, and the drugs needed to control the resulting glucose levels. He teaches how to use drugs and insulin and meters. He was the first person to adopt a meter as a private user in his home and has pushed very hard to have this tool accepted by all diabetics. He not only advocates drugs and insulin, it keeps him alive, but he names brands of it and the meters to use btw. His use of a low carbohydrate diet goes hand in hand with daily intensive exercise and weight loss, he names brand names of the exercise gear btw. His weight loss advice is very specific, eat less period. All of these are designed to help keep glucose levels in control. I mention brands because obviously he is part of the diabetes industry conspiring to keep people buying products and drugs. He must be even worse, he names brands and must therefore be in the control of specific companies.
TC - 14 Jun 2005 15:07 GMT > "The ADA wants you to treat the symptoms, Bernstein will teach you how > to treat the cause." [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > even worse, he names brands and must therefore be in the control of > specific companies. His diet advice is very specific in that he tells you to specifically restrict refined carbs. He teaches you to control bg by not eating too many refined carbs in the first place. Therefore he is treating the cause of high bg levels. The cause of high bg levels is too many refined carbs in the diet. You treat diabetes (the diseasse) by restricting carbs (the cause), you mitigate the high bg before it happens. Then you can minimize the need for bg controlling meds and insulin. His weight loss advice is the same as his bg controlling advice which is cut out the refined carbs.
Once a diabetic cuts out the refined carbs and gets their bg under control, the result is better health, feeling better and the ability to continue life as normal, which includes the ability to get back to increasing their physical activity like normal people.
Surely you can see that if one cuts refined carbs and ones symptoms go away and one becomes "normal" again and one becomes healthy again then the cause of the problem was refined carbs. Unfortunately, many people have done irreparable damage to themselves by remaining on a high-carb low-fat ADA-type diet for too long. They will never be normal again.
TC
George Lagergren - 14 Jun 2005 16:35 GMT > Surely you can see that if one cuts refined carbs and ones symptoms go > away and one becomes "normal" again and one becomes healthy again then > the cause of the problem was refined carbs. Unfortunately, many people > have done irreparable damage to themselves by remaining on a high-carb > low-fat ADA-type diet for too long. They will never be normal again. Should diabetics be on both a low-carb and low-fat diet?
TC - 14 Jun 2005 17:05 GMT > > Surely you can see that if one cuts refined carbs and ones symptoms go > > away and one becomes "normal" again and one becomes healthy again then [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Should diabetics be on both a low-carb and low-fat diet? No. Low carb diets have been proven to lead to more predictable weight loss and control, and have been shown to improve lipid profiles, and it actually works.
Cut the refined carbs.
TC
Mr-Natural-Health - 12 Jun 2005 14:25 GMT > You must get this book and read it cover to cover: Silly me! Here, I thought that the original poster stated: "I hope someone can answer this. what are the chances that I can build up to eating enough carbs that I can body build again?"
And, that if you had actually read that book that you could articulate it on this THREAD.
Yes, silly me! You are too stupid to do that!!!
You are after all, just a Troll. :)
Bob - 10 Jun 2005 23:17 GMT >I am a 41 year old type 2 diabetic. >I have recently restarted my work outs and have notices a big increase [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >body build again? >thank you Type 2 diabetes is caused by being overweight and from being sedentary. There is a genetic component but the sheer increase in the number of cases of T2 diabetes is not genetic. The overweight part is simple calories in/calories out. Some people around here like to blame carbs for causing diabetes but that is a simplistic and ignorant belief. Exercise will not only help you lose weight but also increase insulin sensitivity.
I have type 1 diabetes and being active has a profound impact on my insulin sensitivity. Exercise can act as an invisible insulin. I run/exercise no more than 3 1/2 hours a week but the dividends are well worth it. I am on Lantus and Humalog but only 15-20% of my insulin is basal the rest is bolus. If I run 7 hours a week my basal requirements approach zero. If I am not able to exercise by basal requirements go up. Most T1 diabetics are on 50% basal.
Bottom line is carbs and refined sugars don't cause diabetes. If you have T2 diabetes and you just want a band-aid solution that merely treats the symptoms by all means go low-carb but it is not a healthy diet.
Bob - 10 Jun 2005 23:23 GMT >>I am a 41 year old type 2 diabetic. >>I have recently restarted my work outs and have notices a big increase [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >requirements approach zero. If I am not able to exercise by basal >requirements go up. Most T1 diabetics are on 50% basal. I forgot to mention that 70% of my diet is whole and refined grains with 5-10% fat and the rest protein.
>Bottom line is carbs and refined sugars don't cause diabetes. If you >have T2 diabetes and you just want a band-aid solution that merely >treats the symptoms by all means go low-carb but it is not a healthy >diet. Thomas Muffaletto - 11 Jun 2005 08:34 GMT Some people around here like to
> blame carbs for causing diabetes but that is a simplistic and ignorant > belief. You know Bob its a little too simplistic. I know a bit about nutrition I can not explain it like you can but I cant help but feel some posts are made by under paid spam people. i cant see them believing what they say. I can see - o that diet didnt work for me but please to call it poison is just funny. the healthiest people in the world are on very similar diets. I have yet to see a low carb athlete. another thing I have noticed if you watch those in favor of low carb and those against it - if you read the posts when not using medical terms and things that can be proven i those against the constint pushing of low carbs usually come out right. i guess that goes but to simplistic and ignorant. i dont know this group and am not talking about those in it.
> I have type 1 diabetes and being active has a profound impact on my > insulin sensitivity. Exercise can act as an invisible insulin. I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > requirements approach zero. If I am not able to exercise by basal > requirements go up. Most T1 diabetics are on 50% basal. would you mind telling me how you eat before and after your run? I know it wont be the same for me I am just curious. you don't have to tell me about the lantus unless you want to I am type 2.
 Signature Tom Exercise Today = Life Tomorrow
Information you can trust from the diabetes experts... Your American Diabetes Association http://www.diabetes.org/home.jsp the American Diabetes Association's Message Boards http://community.diabetes.org/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=amdiabetesz&nav=index Chat Live with Mr. Gantlet http://profiles.yahoo.com/mrgantlet911
Bob - 11 Jun 2005 14:04 GMT > Some people around here like to >> blame carbs for causing diabetes but that is a simplistic and ignorant [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >for me >but please to call it poison is just funny. Carbs are definitely not poison!
> the healthiest people in the >world are on very similar diets.
>I have yet to see a low carb athlete. Neither have I. Low carb simply continues the vicious cycle of no exercise and insulin resistance. As you have experienced yourself, your workouts have lowered your insulin resistance and has allowed you to eat more carbs which in turn allows you to workout more.
>another thing I have noticed if you >watch those in favor of low carb and those against it - if you read the posts when not >using medical terms and things that can be proven i those against the constint pushing of low >carbs usually come out right. The idea that carbs or refined carbs etc cause diabetes is nonsense. Look at world class marathoners or bike racers who eat very high carb low fat diets. Rest assured these athletes are not developing T2 diabetes.
Low carbers also can't explain Asian diets or any other diets that are 70% carbs and the people are skinny active and do not have T2 diabetes.
>i guess that goes but to simplistic and ignorant. i dont know this group >and am not talking about those in it. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >I know it wont be the same for me I am just curious. you don't have to tell >me I always take a glucose reading before I run and as long as it is 85 or above I will skip the snack. If my reading is low I usually just have some raisins or dried fruit. I don't eat a snack after I run if thats what you are referring to.
Thomas Muffaletto - 11 Jun 2005 23:34 GMT >>would you mind telling me how you eat before and after your run? >>I know it wont be the same for me I am just curious. you don't have to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > have some raisins or dried fruit. I don't eat a snack after I run if > thats what you are referring to. I am going to start experimenting with my diet and work out a bit more. at first I am going to find out at this point what is the max carb load I can handle and see if I continue to lose weight. I posted my numbers in the diabetic news group on a couple of posts il paste them here.
today for dinner I had 1 cup whole gain rye pasta 44 carbs broccoli about 1 cup carrots - maybe 5 baby carrots and chicken about the size of a deck of cards.
to tell you the truth I was amazed 1 hour after eating 92 2 hour after eating 100 lol how can they look at me and say im getting the wrong info lol.
I tried something new with the pasta to make it seem like more. lets face it even though 1 cup is not what I should eat it does not look like much on the plate. so this is what I did. I took some broccoli and mashed it all up with a few baby carrots and put the pasta on top of that :)
I cook the skinless and boneless chicken breast last night and put that in the sauce. and used about 1tbs of oil to sauté the onions, garlic and hmm lol ok il try jalapeno peppers. I am just in a really good mood after seeing those numbers :).
I left the recipe in to give you an idea of its fat content.
Below are some numbers for my work out and the food I ate.
at 11:30 had 15 carbs of whole grain rye cracker and 3/4 cup of milk. at 12:30 my blood sugar was 131 at 1:15 my blood sugar was 119 ate half of a big orange while working out I drank 20 carbs of exercise drink after 1 hour work out my blood sugar was 95 - time to eat had 1/4 large orange and will slowly drink another 20 carbs of exercise drink over the next hour 2:55pm blood sugar was 103. Time for lunch :) - don't know what im having yet :).
 Signature Tom Exercise Today = Life Tomorrow
Information you can trust from the diabetes experts... Your American Diabetes Association http://www.diabetes.org/home.jsp the American Diabetes Association's Message Boards http://community.diabetes.org/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=amdiabetesz&nav=index Chat Live with Mr. Gantlet http://profiles.yahoo.com/mrgantlet911
Enrico C - 14 Jun 2005 23:39 GMT > I am a 41 year old type 2 diabetic. > I have recently restarted my work outs and have notices a big increase [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > body build again? > thank you Hi Thomas,
I am no expert nor a diabetic, so I can just tell what I heard and read.
I listened to an interview with a diabetic on the Italian television, this guy was told by doctors to follow a very strict diet and take his pills all life long. As he didn't like this kind of life, he started exercizing and jogging as much as he could, every day, even several hours a day. He was a strong man so he could afford it. After some months, his blood tests were much better, the doctors were surprised - he says - and told him he could stop taking pills. Then he went on and after a couple years now he needs less exercise and he can eat big dishes of pasta, 150 grams, no problem, he's all-right anyway, as long he keeps exercising - he says! I was quite surprised by his story, and I don't if his story can be useful or not.
Besides, I recently read the recommendations from the Joslin Center for type II diabetes and prediabetes with overweight. They recommend a diet strict on carboydrates and not-so-low on fat: 40 percent charbohydrate / 30-35 percent fat, but they also say "A target of 60 to 90 minutes of modest intensity physical activity most days of the week with a minimum of 150-175 minutes/week is encouraged and should include cardiovascular, stretching and resistance activities to maintain or increase lean body mass."
Here is the full text.
http://joslin.org/news/nutritionarticle.shtml
Joslin Diabetes Center Announces New Nutrition Guidelines for People with Type 2 Diabetes or Pre-Diabetes who are Overweight or Obese
April 6, 2005 - BOSTON - As Americans' waistlines continue to expand, contributing to a burgeoning epidemic of type 2 diabetes, the scientific jury is in and the verdict is clear: weight loss and increased physical activity is directly related to improved diabetes control. To help Americans fight the dramatic increase in type 2 diabetes, Joslin Diabetes Center has crafted new nutrition and physical activity guidelines for overweight and obese individuals with type 2 diabetes and those at risk for developing diabetes (pre-diabetes).
"Since obesity doesn't seem to be slowing down and the complications of diabetes are so serious, we were especially alarmed about the health of the American public. We felt the best way to impact the largest number of people was to strengthen our nutrition guidelines," said James L. Rosenzweig, M.D, head of Joslin's clinical guidelines committee. The team of physicians, dietitians, exercise physiologists and educators spent months reviewing the scientific literature to draw up new guidelines. "The search was on for guidelines that would improve insulin sensitivity, cardiovascular health and reduce body fat. And most importantly, we wanted to deliver a plan that makes clear what people need to do to achieve their goals," said Dr. Rosenzweig, who also is Director of Joslin's Disease Management Program and Assistant Professor of Medicine at Harvard Medical School.
The new guidelines recommend approximately 40 percent of a person's daily calories come from carbohydrates; 20 to 30 percent from protein (unless the person has kidney disease); 30-35 percent come from fat (mostly mono- and polyunsaturated fats); and at least 20-35 grams of fiber. To initiate and continue weight reduction, a modest goal of one pound every one to two weeks is advised by reducing daily caloric intake by 250 to 500 calories. Total daily calories should not be less than 1,000 to 1,200 for women and 1,200 to 1,600 for men. A target of 60 to 90 minutes of modest intensity physical activity most days of the week with a minimum of 150-175 minutes/week is encouraged and should include cardiovascular, stretching and resistance activities to maintain or increase lean body mass. Two out of three people in the U.S. are overweight or obese, resulting in a skyrocketing rate of type 2 diabetes that now affects at least 18.2 million Americans, including an increasing number of young people. An estimated 41 million Americans have pre-diabetes and are at risk of developing full-blown type 2 diabetes unless they lose weight and increase physical activity. Diabetes is a leading cause of heart disease, stroke, blindness, kidney disease, amputations and other complications. "Setting the standards for diabetes treatment for more than 100 years, Joslin Diabetes Center's approach to diabetes management has always been to focus on the individual and not dictate a 'one size fits all' strategy. While these guidelines are very straightforward, Americans should meet with their healthcare team so they can adapt the guidelines to meet their personal needs," said Osama Hamdy, M.D., Ph.D., Clinical Director of Joslin's Obesity Program and an obesity researcher, who co-chaired the committee that developed the new guidelines.
"Eating smaller portions, modest carbohydrates and slightly more protein with careful selection of fat, protein and carbohydrate sources is the way to go if you are overweight or obese and have diabetes or pre-diabetes and normal kidney function. These recommendations can help people lose weight, have better diabetes control and prevent serious cardiovascular complications," Dr. Hamdy added.
Catherine Carver, M.S., A.N.P., C.D.E., Director, Educational Services and New Clinic Program Development, also co-chaired the workgroup that wrote the guidelines. Amy P. Campbell, M.S., R.D., C.D.E., Education Program Manager of Joslin's Affiliates Programs/Disease Management Program, also was integral to developing the guidelines.
Among the highlights of the new Joslin guidelines are the following recommendations:
Carbohydrate: Approximately 40 percent of a person's daily calories should come from carbohydrate; the total should not be less than 130 grams daily. This is a significant change from Joslin's previous recommendations that promoted a higher carbohydrate intake. Scientific data show that reducing one's carbohydrate intake while simultaneously increasing healthier protein and fat choices may be a better approach to weight control. It may also help decrease cardiovascular disease in overweight people with type 2 diabetes. The best sources are fresh vegetables, fruits and beans. Whole grain foods are preferable to eating pasta, white bread, white potatoes and low fiber cereal. Fiber intake should be approximately 50 grams daily if that amount can be tolerated; a minimum of 20-35 grams per day is recommended and an external supplement may be needed. High-fiber foods include fruits, vegetables, whole grain cereals, breads, nuts and seeds.
Fat: Approximately 30 to 35 percent of a person's daily calories should come from fat. Most should come from mono- and polyunsaturated fats, such as olive oil, canola oil, nuts, seeds and fish (especially those high in omega-3 fatty acids, such as salmon, mackerel, lake trout, herring and sardines). Foods that are high in saturated fat, such as beef, pork, lamb and high-fat dairy products (cream cheese, whole milk) should be eaten in small amounts. Foods that are high in trans fats such as fast foods, commercially baked goods, crackers, cookies and some margarines should be avoided. Cholesterol intake should be less than 300 mg daily; or less than 200 mg in people with an LDL ("bad") cholesterol that is more than 100 mg/dL.
Protein: While anyone with signs of kidney disease should consult their provider before increasing the daily amount of protein, approximately 20 to 30 percent of a person's total calories should come from protein. This is a higher percentage than Joslin recommended in the past. Scientific data reveal that eating more protein helps people feel "full" and thus causes people to eat less calories overall. Protein also helps to maintain lean body mass during weight loss. Examples of protein include fish, skinless chicken or turkey, nonfat or lowfat dairy products and legumes such as kidney beans, black beans, chick peas and lentils.
Weight Loss Guidelines: A modest weight loss of one pound every one to two weeks is advised. Reducing daily calories should be by 250 to 500 calories; total daily calories should not be less than 1,000 to 1,200 for women and 1,200 to 1,600 for men. Weight loss is different for each person and should be continued until a person reaches a target body mass index, or BMI (ask your provider about how to obtain this measurement.) Meal replacements, such as shakes, bars and ready-to-mix powders that match these guidelines can be helpful for some people. Blood glucose patterns often change with these types of replacements and thus people should monitor their blood glucose.
Physical Activity Guidelines: Physical activity is extremely important to a weight loss plan. A minimum of 150 to 175 minutes of moderate intensity physical activity is recommended. Examples of this include walking, biking, swimming and dancing. A target of 60 to 90 minutes most days of the week is encouraged. Physical activity should be a mix of cardiovascular, stretching and resistance activities to maintain or increase lean body mass.
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Jeff - 15 Jun 2005 15:41 GMT (...)
> Besides, I recently read the recommendations from the Joslin Center for > type II diabetes and prediabetes with overweight. They recommend a diet [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > stretching and resistance activities to maintain or increase lean body > mass." Diet and excercise are the keys to good diabetes control.
Jeff
(...)
Thomas Muffaletto - 16 Jun 2005 16:35 GMT >> I am a 41 year old type 2 diabetic. >> I have recently restarted my work outs and have notices a big increase [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > he's all-right anyway, as long he keeps exercising - he says! I was quite > surprised by his story, and I don't if his story can be useful or not. very useful and shows some hope for diabetics. I am doing great on my work outs but I might have been over training I am not sure. I had a very hard time getting to sleep last night and stayed up till 3am when latly i have been going to bed at 11pm.
> Besides, I recently read the recommendations from the Joslin Center for > type II diabetes and prediabetes with overweight. They recommend a diet [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > stretching and resistance activities to maintain or increase lean body > mass." I am working with a dietitian right now and will be going back soon. right now I seen no need to cut carb intake as I have always been getting A1C's in the 5% with out medications. when I do cardio I keep my heart rate at 140 - 150 for 30 minutes 3 days a week and weight train the other 3 days for 1 hour a day. besides today I can not tell you how good it feels to be working out again. I was very big and fat 2 1/2 years ago with little to no muscle at all. I still have a long way to go but at least I dont feel so damn week anymore.
as far as the Joslin Center it seems like a good place and its good that its doing research. theres is one of a few decent diet types a diabetic can work with and help improve one's health. i think its more important for a very over weight type 2 to find a diet it can follow best but also feel strongly that they work with a dietitian and their doctor exclusivly for at least the first 6 months. once i reach maintenance I dont know how my diet will change. but the pasta thing sure sounds good :) thank you for the post.
 Signature Tom Exercise Today = Life Tomorrow
Information you can trust from the diabetes experts... Your American Diabetes Association http://www.diabetes.org/home.jsp the American Diabetes Association's Message Boards http://community.diabetes.org/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=amdiabetesz&nav=index Chat Live with Mr. Gantlet http://profiles.yahoo.com/mrgantlet911
Thomas Muffaletto - 17 Jun 2005 04:17 GMT > I listened to an interview with a diabetic on the Italian television, this > guy was told by doctors to follow a very strict diet and take his pills [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > he's all-right anyway, as long he keeps exercising - he says! I was quite > surprised by his story, and I don't if his story can be useful or not. hello again. i posted about this in alt.support.diabetes.
for dinner I had general tso chicken 1 pint pork fried rice 1 egg roll duck sauce the highest number i seen was 130 at this point I really dont know what i would have to do to get diagnosed diabetic again. it is easier for me to go low then it is to get high.
 Signature Tom Exercise Today = Life Tomorrow
Information you can trust from the diabetes experts... Your American Diabetes Association http://www.diabetes.org/home.jsp the American Diabetes Association's Message Boards http://community.diabetes.org/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=amdiabetesz&nav=index Chat Live with Mr. Gantlet http://profiles.yahoo.com/mrgantlet911
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