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Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / May 2005

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Not too little omega 3s, but too much omega 6s.

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montygram - 28 May 2005 23:48 GMT
Here's just another example of what I've been saying here for years
now.  At least these researchers are honest enough to admit what their
experiment revealed, unlike so many others who begin with assumptions
about how very dangerous fatty acids are "essential" to humans when one
rat experiment was done in 1929/30 (Burr & Burr), before all essential
nutrients, such as some of the B vitamins, were known, and thus any
experiment done at that time would have to be done again with all the
known nutrients, controlling for what is being tested for essentiality
(plus, dogs would be better than rats for this experiment - much closer
to humans in terms of fatty acid metabolization).

Source: www.sciencedaily.com
5/25/2005
Study Links Brain Fatty Acid Levels To Depression

Bethesda, MD -- A group of researchers from Israel has discovered that
rats exhibiting the signs of depression have increased levels of the
omega-6 fatty acid, arachidonic acid, in their brains. The details of
their findings appear in the June issue of the Journal of Lipid
Research, an American Society for Biochemistry and Molecular Biology
journal.

During recent years, omega-3 fatty acids have enjoyed increased
popularity as numerous studies have shown that supplementing diets with
fish oil (a natural source of this polyunsaturated fatty acid) does
everything from reducing the risk of heart disease to preventing
arthritis. There is also evidence that depression may be associated
with a dietary deficiency in omega-3 fatty acids. This "phospholipid
hypothesis" of depression has been supported by research showing that
omega-3 fatty acid concentration in the blood of depressed patients is
lower than that in control patients.

"The "phospholipid hypothesis" of depression postulates that decreased
omega-3 fatty acid intake, and hence, perhaps decreased brain omega-3
fatty acid content, could be responsible for the disease," explains Dr.
Pnina Green of Tel Aviv University. "In humans, because of high dietary
variability and the obvious inability to examine brain tissue, the
theory is backed up mainly by indirect evidence. The availability of
the Flinders Sensitive Line rat, an animal model of depression,
overcomes both these obstacles."

In the Journal of Lipid Research study, Dr. Green in collaboration with
Dr Gal Yadid of Bar-Ilan University, Ramat Gan, used the Flinders
Sensitive Line rats to investigate the link between omega-3 fatty acids
and depression. They examined the brains of the depressed rats and
compared them with brains from normal rats. Surprisingly, they found
that the main difference between the two types of rats was in omega-6
fatty acid levels and not omega-3 fatty acid levels. Specifically, they
discovered that brains from rats with depression had higher
concentrations of arachidonic acid, a long-chain unsaturated metabolite
of omega-6 fatty acid.

Arachidonic acid is found throughout the body and is essential for the
proper functioning of almost every body organ, including the brain. It
serves a wide variety of purposes, from being a purely structural
element in phospholipids to being involved in signal transduction and
being a substrate for a host of derivatives involved in second
messenger function.

"The finding that in the depressive rats the omega-3 fatty acid levels
were not decreased, but arachidonic acid was substantially increased as
compared to controls is somewhat unexpected," admits Dr. Green. "But
the finding lends itself nicely to the theory that increased omega-3
fatty acid intake may shift the balance between the two fatty acid
families in the brain, since it has been demonstrated in animal studies
that increased omega-3 fatty acid intake may result in decreased brain
arachidonic acid."

Although far less attention has been paid to dietary requirements for
omega-6 fatty acids, which can be found in most edible oils and meat,
perhaps in the future depression may be controlled by increasing
omega-3 fatty acid intake and decreasing omega-6 fatty acid intake.
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 29 May 2005 04:08 GMT
>>Here's just another example of what I've been saying here for years
now.  At least these researchers are honest enough to admit what their
experiment revealed, unlike so many others who begin with assumptions
about how very dangerous fatty acids are "essential" to humans when one

rat experiment was done in 1929/30 (Burr & Burr), before all essential
nutrients, such as some of the B vitamins, were known, and thus any
experiment done at that time would have to be done again with all the
known nutrients, controlling for what is being tested for essentiality
(plus, dogs would be better than rats for this experiment - much closer

to humans in terms of fatty acid metabolization). <<

COMMENT:

A lot of experimental evidence has demonstrated the need of n-3 and n-6
EFAs in the diet of both young and old mammals since 1930. You seem to
be having difficulty either finding it or retaining it.  Perhaps a
shortage of n-3 in your own brain?

SBH
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 29 May 2005 04:10 GMT
Br J Nutr. 2000 Dec;84(6):803-12.

The conditional nature of the dietary need for polyunsaturates: a
proposal to
reclassify 'essential fatty acids' as 'conditionally-indispensable' or
'conditionally-dispensable' fatty acids.

Cunnane SC.

Department of Nutritional Sciences, Faculty of Medicine, University of
Toronto,
Canada. cunnane@utoronto.ca.

The term essential fatty acid no longer clearly identifies the fatty
acids it
was originally used to describe. It would be more informative if the
concept of
essentiality shifted away from the symptoms arising from the lack of de
novo
synthesis of linoleate or alpha-linolenate and towards the adequacy of
the
capacity for synthesis and conservation of both the parent and the
derived
long-chain polyunsaturates. For instance, despite the existence of the
pathway
for synthesis of docosahexaenoate from alpha-linolenate, the former
would be
more correctly classified as 'conditionally indispensable' because the
capacity
of the pathway appears insufficient during early development, although
it may be
sufficient later in life in healthy individuals. Similarly, despite the
inability to synthesize linoleate de novo, abundant linoleate stores
and its
relatively slow turnover in healthy adults probably makes linoleate
'conditionally dispensable' for long periods. There are two other
anomalies with
the terms essential and non-essential fatty acids: (1) under several
different
experimental circumstances, the C-skeleton of essential fatty acids is
avidly
used in the synthesis of non-essential fatty acids; (2) to function
normally,
the brain is required to endogenously synthesize several non-essential
fatty
acids. As with essential amino acids, which have been reclassified as
indispensable or conditionally indispensable, such a change in
terminology
should lead to an improved understanding of the function and metabolism
of
polyunsaturates in particular, and long-chain fatty acids in general.

Publication Types:
   Review
   Review, Tutorial

PMID: 11177196 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

J Nutr Health Aging. 2004;8(3):163-74.

Roles of unsaturated fatty acids (especially omega-3 fatty acids) in
the brain
at various ages and during ageing.

Bourre JM.

INSERM Research Director. Unit U26 Neuro-pharmaco-nutrition. Hopital
Fernand
Widal, 200 rue du Faubourg Saint Denis. 75745 Paris cedex 10.
jean-marie.bourre@fwidal.inserm.fr

Among various organs, in the brain, the fatty acids most extensively
studied are
omega-3 fatty acids. Alpha-linolenic acid (18:3omega3) deficiency
alters the
structure and function of membranes and induces minor cerebral
dysfunctions, as
demonstrated in animal models and subsequently in human infants. Even
though the
brain is materially an organ like any other, that is to say elaborated
from
substances present in the diet (sometimes exclusively), for long it was
not
accepted that food can have an influence on brain structure, and thus
on its
function. Lipids, and especially omega-3 fatty acids, provided the
first
coherent experimental demonstration of the effect of diet (nutrients)
on the
structure and function of the brain. In fact the brain, after adipose
tissue, is
the organ richest in lipids, whose only role is to participate in
membrane
structure. First it was shown that the differentiation and functioning
of
cultured brain cells requires not only alpha-linolenic acid (the major
component
of the omega-3, omega3 family), but also the very long omega-3 and
omega-6
carbon chains (1). It was then demonstrated that alpha-linolenic acid
deficiency
alters the course of brain development, perturbs the composition and
physicochemical properties of brain cell membranes, neurones,
oligodendrocytes,
and astrocytes (2).This leads to physicochemical modifications, induces
biochemical and physiological perturbations, and results in
neurosensory and
behavioural upset (3). Consequently, the nature of polyunsaturated
fatty acids
(in particular omega-3) present in formula milks for infants (premature
and
term) conditions the visual and cerebral abilities, including
intellectual.
Moreover, dietary omega-3 fatty acids are certainly involved in the
prevention
of some aspects of cardiovascular disease (including at the level of
cerebral
vascularization), and in some neuropsychiatric disorders, particularly
depression, as well as in dementia, notably Alzheimer's disease. Recent
results
have shown that dietary alpha-linolenic acid deficiency induces more
marked
abnormalities in certain cerebral structures than in others, as the
frontal
cortex and pituitary gland are more severely affected. These selective
lesions
are accompanied by behavioural disorders more particularly affecting
certain
tests (habituation, adaptation to new situations). Biochemical and
behavioural
abnormalities are partially reversed by a dietary phospholipid
supplement,
especially omega-3-rich egg yolk extracts or pig brain. A dose-effect
study
showed that animal phospholipids are more effective than plant
phospholipids to
reverse the consequences of alpha-linolenic acid deficiency, partly
because they
provide very long preformed chains. Alpha-linolenic acid deficiency
decreases
the perception of pleasure, by slightly altering the efficacy of
sensory organs
and by affecting certain cerebral structures. Age-related impairment of
hearing,
vision and smell is due to both decreased efficacy of the parts of the
brain
concerned and disorders of sensory receptors, particularly of the inner
ear or
retina. For example, a given level of perception of a sweet taste
requires a
larger quantity of sugar in subjects with alpha-linolenic acid
deficiency. In
view of occidental eating habits, as omega-6 fatty acid deficiency has
never
been observed, its impact on the brain has not been studied. In
contrast,
omega-9 fatty acid deficiency, specifically oleic acid deficiency,
induces a
reduction of this fatty acid in many tissues, except the brain (but the
sciatic
nerve is affected). This fatty acid is therefore not synthesized in
sufficient
quantities, at least during pregnancy-lactation, implying a need for
dietary
intake. It must be remembered that organization of the neurons is
almost
complete several weeks before birth, and that these neurons remain for
the
subject's life time. Consequently, any disturbance of these neurons, an
alteration of their connections, and impaired turnover of their
constituents at
any stage of life, will tend to accelerate ageing. The enzymatic
activities of
sytivities of synthesis of long-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids from
linoleic
and alpha-linolenic acids are very limited in the brain: this organ
therefore
depends on an exogenous supply. Consequently, fatty acids that are
essential for
the brain are arachidonic acid and cervonic acid, derived from the
diet, unless
they are synthesized by the liver from linoleic acid and
alpha-linolenic acid.
The age-related reduction of hepatic desaturase activities (which
participate in
the synthesis of long chains, together with elongases) can impair
turnover of
cerebral membranes. In many structures, especially in the frontal
cortex, a
reduction of cervonic and arachidonic acids is observed during ageing,
predominantly associated with a reduction of phosphatidylethanolamines
(mainly
in the form of plasmalogens). Peroxisomal oxidation of polyunsaturated
fatty
acids decreases in the brain during ageing, participating in decreased
turnover
of membrane fatty acids, which are also less effectively protected
against
peroxidation by free radicals.

Publication Types:
   Review
   Review, Tutorial

PMID: 15129302 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

J Nutr. 1998 Feb;128(2 Suppl):427S-433S.

Comment in:
   J Nutr. 1999 Feb;129(2):446.

The slow discovery of the importance of omega 3 essential fatty acids
in human
health.

Holman RT.

Hormel Institute, University of Minnesota, Austin 55912, USA.

Although linoleic and linolenic acids have been known to be necessary
for normal
growth and dermal function since 1930, the omega 3 essential fatty
acids (EFA)
have not received much attention until recently. The two families of
acids are
metabolized by the same enzymes, making them competitive. Gross
deficiencies of
omega 6 plus omega 3 EFA have been observed in humans, induced by
attempts at
total parenteral nutrition (TPN) with preparations devoid of lipids.
Deficiency
of omega 3 acids has been induced by TPN containing high omega 6 and
low omega 3
fatty acids. In natural human populations, a wide range of omega 3 and
omega 6
proportions have been found, ranging from high omega 3 and low omega 6
content
to low omega 3 and high omega 6 content, showing inverse correlation
between
sigma omega 6 and sigma omega 3. In humans with neuropathy or
impairment of the
immune system, significant deficits of omega 3 EFA have been measured.

Publication Types:
   Review
   Review, Tutorial

PMID: 9478042 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care. 2002 Mar;5(2):127-32.

Efficiency of conversion of alpha-linolenic acid to long chain n-3
fatty acids
in man.

Brenna JT.

Division of Nutritional Sciences, Savage Hall, Cornell University,
Ithaca, New
York 14853, USA. jtb4@cornell.edu

Alpha-linolenic acid (18:3n-3) is the major n-3 (omega 3) fatty acid in
the
human diet. It is derived mainly from terrestrial plant consumption and
it has
long been thought that its major biochemical role is as the principal
precursor
for long chain polyunsaturated fatty acids, of which eicosapentaenoic
(20:5n-3)
and docosahexaenoic acid (22:6n-3) are the most prevalent. For infants,
n-3 long
chain polyunsaturated fatty acids are required for rapid growth of
neural tissue
in the perinatal period and a nutritional supply is particularly
important for
development of premature infants. For adults, n-3 long chain
polyunsaturated
fatty acid supplementation is implicated in improving a wide range of
clinical
pathologies involving cardiac, kidney, and neural tissues. Studies
generally
agree that whole body conversion of 18:3n-3 to 22:6n-3 is below 5% in
humans,
and depends on the concentration of n-6 fatty acids and long chain
polyunsaturated fatty acids in the diet. Complete oxidation of dietary
18:3n-3
to CO2 accounts for about 25% of 18:3n-3 in the first 24 h, reaching
60% by 7
days. Much of the remaining 18:3n-3 serves as a source of acetate for
synthesis
of saturates and monounsaturates, with very little stored as 18:3n-3.
In term
and preterm infants, studies show wide variability in the plasma
kinetics of 13C
n-3 long chain polyunsaturated fatty acids after 13C-18:3n-3 dosing,
suggesting
wide variability among human infants in the development of biosynthetic
capability to convert 18:3n-3 to 22:6n3. Tracer studies show that
humans of all
ages can perform the conversion of 18:3n-3 to 22:6n3. Further studies
are
required to establish quantitatively the partitioning of dietary
18:3n-3 among
metabolic pathways and the influence of other dietary components and of
physiological states on these processes.

Publication Types:
   Review
   Review, Tutorial

PMID: 11844977 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Annu Rev Nutr. 2004;24:597-615.

Dietary n-6 and n-3 fatty acid balance and cardiovascular health.

Wijendran V, Hayes KC.

Foster Biomedical Research Lab, Brandeis University, Waltham,
Massachusetts
02254, USA. vwijen@brandeis.edu

Epidemiological and clinical studies have established that the n-6
fatty acid,
linoleic acid (LA), and the n-3 fatty acids, linolenic acid (LNA),
eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA), and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA)
collectively protect
against coronary heart disease (CHD). LA is the major dietary fatty
acid
regulating low-density lipoprotein (LDL)-C metabolism by downregulating
LDL-C
production and enhancing its clearance. Further, the available mass of
LA is a
critical factor determining the hyperlipemic effects of other dietary
fat
components, such as saturated and trans fatty acids, as well as
cholesterol. By
contrast, n-3 fatty acids, especially EPA and DHA, are potent
antiarryhthmic
agents. EPA and DHA also improve vascular endothelial function and help
lower
blood pressure, platelet sensitivity, and the serum triglyceride level.
The
distinct functions of these two families make the balance between
dietary n-6
and n-3 fatty acids an important consideration influencing
cardiovascular
health. Based on published literature describing practical dietary
intakes, we
suggest that consumption of ~6% en LA, 0.75% en LNA, and 0.25% en EPA +
DHA
represents adequate and achievable intakes for most healthy adults.
This
corresponds to an n-6/n-3 ratio of ~6:1. However, the absolute mass of
essential
fatty acids consumed, rather than their n-6/n-3 ratio, should be the
first
consideration when contemplating lifelong dietary habits affecting
cardiovascular benefit from their intake.

Publication Types:
   Review

PMID: 15189133 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
montygram - 30 May 2005 20:47 GMT
Are you trying to prove my point with these "studies?"  They do
exactly what I have been pointing out here for years, that is:  they
mention the 1930 study, but fail to mention that not all essential
nutrients were known - thus there is no way such a study could be
anything but worthy of a follow-up, which nobody has ever done.  I have
proposed such an experiment, on dogs (a better animal model than the
1930 rat experiment), but have had no takers to my offer (to sum it up:
if the adult animals consuming only trace amounts of omega 3 and 6
PUFAs live at least as long as the ones consuming supposedly adequate
amounts, you pay, but if they live a statistically significant less
amount of time, then I'll pay for it - same diet otherwise for both
groups of dogs).  They say they've done an experiment on brain cells
- did they use the alternative PUFA, the omega 9 Mead acid?  No, of
course not, that would mean actually doing something scientifically
valid.

And, of course, none of this means that adults need omega 3s or 6s.
They say omega 3s are needed for immune function, but it's been
demonstrated over and over again that omega 3s are highly
immunosuppressive.  It's the ability to counteract the incredibly
dangerous omega 6, arachidonic acid, that is being demonstrated in such
experiments, not a "need" for them.  They fail to mention anything
about people like my grandparents,  who are mid 80s - early 90s, and
never had anything beyond a few molecules of omega 3s all their lives
(they don't eat canola oil, flax, fish, DHA enhanced eggs, etc.), but
are in pretty good shape, probably because of the chocolate and coffee
they consume.  They also don't talk about how Eskimos on diets high
in omega 3s died so young, usually around the age of 40, due to the
effects of these fatty acids (bleeding strokes, death from internal
bleeding due to minor traumas, shock from minor traumas, etc.).

The bottom line:  no experiment that is directly on point, even in an
animal model, has been done to demonstrate that omega 3s and 6s, in any
amount, are required for adult humans (in the way that vitamin B12 is,
for example), and there are thousands, if not tens of thousands, of
studies that demonstrate how dangerous these highly unstable molecules
are.  There is no doubt about this - it is the scientific reality.
All the studies you can cite that supposedly claim "essentiality"
do nothing of the sort, unless you are doing something other than
science, perhaps creating a religion in which particular PUFAs are
worshipped as divine in some way.
mattlb@angelfire.com - 31 May 2005 18:08 GMT
> Are you trying to prove my point with these "studies?"  They do
> exactly what I have been pointing out here for years, that is:  they
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> about people like my grandparents,  who are mid 80s - early 90s, and
> never had anything beyond a few molecules of omega 3s all their lives

Your rigid scientific method cracks me up.

> (they don't eat canola oil, flax, fish, DHA enhanced eggs, etc.), but
> are in pretty good shape, probably because of the chocolate and coffee
> they consume.

You've got to be trolling.

>  They also don't talk about how Eskimos on diets high
> in omega 3s died so young, usually around the age of 40, due to the
> effects of these fatty acids (bleeding strokes, death from internal
> bleeding due to minor traumas, shock from minor traumas, etc.).

Arachidonic acid deficiency, you think?

> The bottom line:  no experiment that is directly on point, even in an
> animal model, has been done to demonstrate that omega 3s and 6s, in any
> amount, are required for adult humans (in the way that vitamin B12 is,
> for example),

You're obvious desperate to be the group clown. In the post BY YOU that
started this thread it has:

"Arachidonic acid is found throughout the body and is essential for the
proper functioning of almost every body organ, including the brain. It
serves a wide variety of purposes, from being a purely structural
element in phospholipids to being involved in signal transduction and
being a substrate for a host of derivatives involved in second
messenger function."

Are we to take it you don't believe your own hype?

> and there are thousands, if not tens of thousands, of
> studies that demonstrate how dangerous these highly unstable molecules
> are.  There is no doubt about this - it is the scientific reality.
> All the studies you can cite that supposedly claim "essentiality"
> do nothing of the sort,

Ho hum. Here's outing number five for this...

"Thirty years later, Hansen et al. [140] were the first to describe
EFAD in humans. They observed unsatisfactory growth rates and dryness
of the skin in many infants on low LA intakes. EFAD has been most
extensively described in subjects on fat-free total parenteral
nutrition (TPN)[141-147]. For example, O'Neill et al. [142] reported on
28 patients,ranging from newborns to 66 years old, who received
fat-free TPN.
LA levels fell rapidly, followed by AA. In most of the patients the
20:3n9/20:4n6 ratio (a biochemical marker for EFAD) had
increased after a few weeks above the 0.4 criterion [148], followed
approximately one week later by clinical signs of a scaly and thin
skin, and hair loss. In addition to these classical EFAD symptoms,
many other biological and behavioural changes have been documented
[149-151]"

Two of the refs:

Wene JD, Connor WE, DenBesten L. The development of essential fatty
acid deficiency in healthy men fed fat-free diets intravenously and
orally. J Clin Invest 1975;56:127-34

O'Neill JA, Caldwell MD, Meng HC. Essential fatty acid deficiency in
surgical patients. Ann Surg 1977;185:535-41"

As predicted you didn't respond to this one about fatty acid deficiency
in dogs that Steve Harris pointed out to you either:

Here's the PubMed link
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra
ct&list_uids=1263442


> unless you are doing something other than
> science, perhaps creating a religion in which particular PUFAs are
> worshipped as divine in some way.

Like Mead Acid you mean?

MattLB
MMu - 30 May 2005 11:51 GMT
> Here's just another example of what I've been saying here for years
> now.

What "you have been saying here for years" is ever so slightly changing..
once it was: all PUFA's are the ultimate evil..
now you slowly seem to adapt to the idea that w3's can actually be
beneficial.

>At least these researchers are honest enough to admit what their
> experiment revealed, unlike so many others who begin with assumptions
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> (plus, dogs would be better than rats for this experiment - much closer
> to humans in terms of fatty acid metabolization).

Sbharris commented on this 1930's myth already. You seem to like this idea
quite a lot since you still cite yourself on that constantly.. you are not
up to date on the literature there.

> Source: www.sciencedaily.com
> 5/25/2005
[quoted text clipped - 57 lines]
> perhaps in the future depression may be controlled by increasing
> omega-3 fatty acid intake and decreasing omega-6 fatty acid intake.
montygram - 30 May 2005 20:53 GMT
No, I stay away from omega 3s, but I am only interested in the
scientific reality, and it is clear that if you are loaded up with
arachidonic acid, and getting destroyed by AA metabolites, then the
omega 3s will knock down the metabolization to some degree.  It is a
temporary fix, and I have cited studies that point out that after a
certain period of time, the omega 3 group actually has more problems
than the control group.

As for Burr & Burr:  that is what is cited in the major nutrition
textbooks, and yet even on the level of logic, it is unjustifiable to
suggest that this rat experiment done in 1930 "proves" anything.  We
need to do that experiment again with proper controls.  Now if you know
of such an experiment, then go ahead and cite it.  Until then, all one
can say as a scientist is that there is a huge amount of evidence
against consuming more than tiny amounts of omega 3s and 6s, and no
scientific evidence suggesting that it is "essential" in a way that
non-pregnant human adults should worry about getting more of it.
Instead, at this point in time, the reasonable person with some
scientific knowledge knows that avoiding these dangerous substances is
consistent with the evidence.
 
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