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Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / June 2005

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How do I control my calories?

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Tipster - 20 May 2005 19:39 GMT
Hey people, would this be the guideline used to control calory intake?

Aim for maximum vitamin and mineral (by food or pills)

Get enough fat, protein (according to your weight) and carbohydrate on
a daily basis.

Separate your calorie intake through out the day.

Get enough fiber (through food or capsules)

Get a decent amount of exercise and sleep.
montygram - 21 May 2005 04:26 GMT
If you've got a chronic inflammatory process going on in your body, you
will probably be a lot hungrier than someone who doesn't.  If you were
my patient, we'd go over all the food you are eating, how many hours
sleep you are getting, etc.  Short of trying to sort it all out, I'm
nor sure about what you are asking.  Are you having trouble controlling
your appetite?  If you are an American, it's unlikely that you are
eating too little, in terms of calories.

For example, what does "separate your calorie intake through the day"
means?  Are you eating one meal a day at this point?

Fiber has no calories, so that's not an issue.

One point that needs to be made is that the charts you see in books and
magazines represent a gross assessment, and are basically worthless if
you want to really zero in on what's best for you as an individual.
OmManiPadmeOmelet - 21 May 2005 08:03 GMT
> Hey people, would this be the guideline used to control calory intake?
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Get a decent amount of exercise and sleep.

Read the labels.....
Signature

Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

jake - 21 May 2005 13:48 GMT
> Hey people, would this be the guideline used to control calory intake?
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Get a decent amount of exercise and sleep.

I'd use www.fitday.com for some time (say, 2 weeks) to assess how i am
eating now. It's an effective learning tool, too.

 So if you were to find out you need to make any adjustments, you'd
already have some knowledge to use for achieving those adjustments.
Juhana Harju - 21 May 2005 18:16 GMT
:: Aim for maximum vitamin and mineral (by food or pills)

In general it is good to eat more nutrient dense foods and to reduce eating
energy dense foods. But maximum vitamin and mineral intake is not a good
goal. You can easily get too much retinol and iron. Aim for optimal amounts.

Signature

Juhana

John Sankey - 21 May 2005 19:12 GMT
For a guide to nutrient-dense foods and how to determine them,
http://sankey.ws/diet.html
might be of help
Mr-Natural-Health - 21 May 2005 20:06 GMT
> Get enough fat, protein (according to your weight) and carbohydrate on
> a daily basis.

WRONG!

It should read: Get enough fat, protein and carbohydrates (according to
your caloric needs i.e., activity level) on a daily basis.

> Separate your calorie intake through out the day.

Again it should read: Spreadout your caloric intake through out the day
by eating 3 meals a day. Try to skip in between meal snacks.

Get enough fiber by eating 5 servings of "real" fruits and vegetables
(either raw or cooked) a day, plus "whole" grains.

30 minutes a day, seven days a week of walking or of more intense
exercise.

Along with 7 to 8 hours of sleep.
joni - 21 May 2005 20:51 GMT
> > Separate your calorie intake through out the day.
>
> Again it should read: Spreadout your caloric intake through
> out the day by eating 3 meals a day. Try to skip in between
> meal snacks.

Eating 5-6 smaller meals a day is a better way to eat for many reasons,
increased fatloss being the best reason. Google 'importance of eating
five to six small meals a day' to read up the 'whys'. Its like people
just recently discovered this while others knew it all along. And
snacks certainly are are ok if they are healthy snacks and fit into
your caloric needs.
Just as an example: http://www.dolfzine.com/page35.htm
"Metabolically, the body tends to go into survival mode at or about
three to fours hours if it has not received an outside source of fuel
(food). If we eat the standard three meals per day, then we are
constantly playing the game of speeding up and slowing down the
metabolic rate. Therefore, it makes sense that to keep the metabolic
rate turbo charged with food, we should ingest something every three to
four hours. This translates to about five to six meals per day. When
the body is fed roughly every three to four hours, it does not drop
into survival mode, which means the nutrients are broken down and
utilized more efficiently."

> 30 minutes a day, seven days a week of walking or of
> more intense exercise.

Thirty minutes a day is recommended more for maintenance of
health/weight but not for getting into shape if one is overweight.
Years of sedentary eating doesnt come off with only thirty minutes a
day. Probably more like an hour of cardio a day plus working out with
weights 3x a week is more like it if you really want to change your
shape.

> Along with 7 to 8 hours of sleep.

The importance of sleep is totally underated. Many people who undertake
an intense exercise regimen may find they need more than the eight
hours of sleep they are used to and do themselves an injustice by
skimping on it.

joanne
Mr-Natural-Health - 21 May 2005 21:08 GMT
> Eating 5-6 smaller meals a day is a better way to eat for many
reasons, ...

As a practical matter, I don't buy that at all. :)

Having once counseled a 300+ pound, pounder, the 5 meals a day bit is
simply used as an excuse to eat more food.  Obese individuals generally
have a compulsive need to eat, that must be broken. Better, to get used
to 3 meals a day.

You can get used to anything, including 3 meals a day.  When you cut
out junk food, 3 meals a day has no problems.  In fact, I have gone
many a day with fewer meals.

> > 30 minutes a day, seven days a week of walking or of
> > more intense exercise.
>
> Thirty minutes a day is recommended more for maintenance of
> health/weight but not for getting into shape if one is overweight.

I was referring to minimal requirements.

My workouts are in the 2 to 3 hour range when I bodybuild and 1 to 2
hours for aerobics. Time in the hot tub, sauna, and shower does add
up!!!
Stacey Bender - 21 May 2005 21:15 GMT
>>Eating 5-6 smaller meals a day is a better way to eat for many
>
> reasons, ...
>
> As a practical matter, I don't buy that at all. :)

I think that's the difference. From an ideal standpoint all the
arguments for eating more smaller meals make sense. From my flawed human
being standpoint, giving me more opportunities to eat is giving more
opportunities to overeat.
Enrico C - 21 May 2005 22:51 GMT
On 21 May 2005 12:06:11 -0700, Mr-Natural-Health wrote on sci.med.nutrition

>> Get enough fat, protein (according to your weight) and carbohydrate
> on
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> It should read: Get enough fat, protein and carbohydrates (according to
> your caloric needs i.e., activity level) on a daily basis.

Do you get protein for calories, mainly? ^^
I was told that protein is needed according to (ideal) weight and phisical
activity.

Signature

Enrico C

Mr-Natural-Health - 22 May 2005 01:29 GMT
> Do you get protein for calories, mainly? ^^
> I was told that protein is needed according to (ideal) weight and phisical
> activity.

Apparently, some people are still afraid of 6th grade math that uses
percentages.  While a lot web sites specify grams of protein by body
weight, all of the serious research states the same with percentages of
calories.

Either way it should work out the same.

You have to eat X number of calories to maintain a given body weight at
a given activity level of which 15 percent should be protein.

Of course, whether or not flooding the body with extra protein actually
helps any is speculative at best.

>From my point of view, if I have to eat 5 or six meals a day and spend
$300 a month on supplements then I will pass.  I don't need to look
like a muscle bound geek that bad.  I am happy to look like a muscular
light weight. :)
Enrico C - 22 May 2005 12:14 GMT
On 21 May 2005 17:29:09 -0700, Mr-Natural-Health wrote on sci.med.nutrition

>> Do you get protein for calories, mainly? ^^
>> I was told that protein is needed according to (ideal) weight and
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Apparently, some people are still afraid of 6th grade math that uses
> percentages.  

Protein RDAs are based on g/kg/day , not on percentages.

> While a lot web sites specify grams of protein by body
> weight, all of the serious research states the same with percentages of
> calories.
>
> Either way it should work out the same.

I doubt that.


> You have to eat X number of calories to maintain a given body weight at
> a given activity level of which 15 percent should be protein.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> like a muscle bound geek that bad.  I am happy to look like a muscular
> light weight. :)

$300 a month on supplements! Wow! ^^
Enrico C - 22 May 2005 13:41 GMT
> On 21 May 2005 17:29:09 -0700, Mr-Natural-Health wrote on sci.med.nutrition
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Protein RDAs are based on g/kg/day , not on percentages.

"Based on 1.5 g/kg/day for infants, 1.1 g/kg/day for 1-3 y, 0.95 g/kg/day
for 4-13 y, 0.85 g/kg/day for 14-18 y, 0.8 g /kg/day for adults, and 1.1
g/kg/day for pregnant (using prepregnancy weight) and lactating women."

>> While a lot web sites specify grams of protein by body
>> weight, all of the serious research states the same with percentages of
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> I doubt that.

>> You have to eat X number of calories to maintain a given body weight at
>> a given activity level of which 15 percent should be protein.
>>
>> Of course, whether or not flooding the body with extra protein actually
>> helps any is speculative at best.

Let's say a person eats P15-C55-F30, but, being a bit overweight, needs
less calories for some time (let's say 1.600 instead of 2.000, that is *one
fifth* less).

Would you proportionally reduce one fifth of all nutrients (protein, carbo
and fat) in order to keep the same P-C-F percentages as before,

or would you reduce carbo and fat (energy sources) until he/she loses
overweight, but always give the same grams of protein (to build and repair
the body)?

Signature

Enrico C

Enrico C - 22 May 2005 14:55 GMT
>> On 21 May 2005 17:29:09 -0700, Mr-Natural-Health wrote on sci.med.nutrition
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>>
>> Protein RDAs are based on g/kg/day , not on percentages.

> "Based on 1.5 g/kg/day for infants, 1.1 g/kg/day for 1-3 y, 0.95 g/kg/day
> for 4-13 y, 0.85 g/kg/day for 14-18 y, 0.8 g /kg/day for adults, and 1.1
> g/kg/day for pregnant (using prepregnancy weight) and lactating women."

Recommended Dietary Allowances (RDAs) "set to meet the needs of
almost all (97 to 98 percent) individuals in a group."

http://www.iom.edu/Object.File/Master/7/300/0.pdf

While the AMDR* is based on a *range* of percentages, that is from a min to
a Max...
For protein in adults: min 10% Max 35%

[* "Acceptable Macronutrient Distribution Range (AMDR) is the range of
intake for a particular energy source that is associated with reduced risk
of chronic disease while providing intakes of essential nutrients. If an
individuals consumed in excess of the AMDR, there is a potential of
increasing the risk of chronic diseases and insufficient intakes of
essential nutrients."]

Signature

Enrico C

Mr-Natural-Health - 22 May 2005 17:14 GMT
> > Apparently, some people are still afraid of 6th grade math that uses
> > percentages.
>
> Protein RDAs are based on g/kg/day , not on percentages.

?????

Perhaps, if you were to focused?

I said .... Research, ... RESEARCH, ... research ...

Not once did I ever refer to RDAs, Dumb a.s.

> > Either way it should work out the same.
>
> I doubt that.

It is called math, Dumb a.s.

6th grade math!!!
Enrico C - 22 May 2005 20:36 GMT
On 22 May 2005 09:14:00 -0700, Mr-Natural-Health wrote on sci.med.nutrition

>>> Apparently, some people are still afraid of 6th grade math that
> uses
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Not once did I ever refer to RDAs,

You didn't. I do.

> Dumb a.s.

So you are not interested in talking about nutrition?

>>> Either way it should work out the same.
>>
>> I doubt that.
>
> It is called math, Dumb a.s.

No, you are not.

> 6th grade math!!!

Yawn... Bye

Signature

Enrico C

Alf Christophersen - 12 Jun 2005 16:26 GMT
>Of course, whether or not flooding the body with extra protein actually
>helps any is speculative at best.
When you have a serious infection, increased protein  intake is a
matter. Your lymphocytes need glutamine, lots of glutamine. Starting
with alpha-ketoglutarate as a starter (from Krebs cyclus, from sugar
degradation) you need two ammonium molecules from two amino acid
molecules to form one molecule of glutamine.
OmManiPadmeOmelet - 23 May 2005 15:23 GMT
> Along with 7 to 8 hours of sleep.

<lol> On what planet? ;-)
I'm lucky to get 6.

Any substitutes for sleep???

I try to sleep more than that, but I wake up and can't seem to do
anything about it, not even with increased doses of melatonin.
Signature

Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

Pizza Girl - 24 May 2005 01:52 GMT
Typical of an anxiety problem. Think about it.

> I try to sleep more than that, but I wake up and can't seem to do
> anything about it, not even with increased doses of melatonin.
Mr-Natural-Health - 21 May 2005 20:28 GMT
> Aim for maximum vitamin and mineral (by food or pills)

The notion that you can get all of your nutritional needs met by diet
alone is total B/S, IMHO opinion.

I cover the subject of diet on my website in 17 pages.
http://food.naturalhealthperspective.com/

In regards to the need for nutritional supplementation: "The total
intake of nutrients from your diet is generally closely linked with
total caloric intake."
http://supplements.naturalhealthperspective.com/poordiets.html

Even for the person of normal weight, trying to get your recommended
intake of calcium and magnesium would require a diet of some 7,000
calories a day. Hence, it simply not realistic for a person to rely on
their diet alone for their mineral needs.  The poor bioavailability of
minerals from a fiber heavy diet simply does not add up to what is
needed for strong bones.

"The total intake of nutrients from your diet is generally closely
linked with total caloric intake.

Are you trying to lose weight? On a restricted diet of 1,500 calories
most people obtain ONLY about 50% of the recommended daily intakes of
nutrients.[2] In another study of a varied diet at different energy
levels, "results show[ed] that at low energy levels, meeting nutrient
needs was difficult and that even at higher calorie intakes, contrary
to what was expected, certain nutrients were found to be
inadequate."[3] Fasting should be viewed as an extreme form of dieting.

Are you happy with your present weight? You may be surprised to learn
that many people obtain only about 80% of the recommended daily
allowances of nutrients from a 2,500 calories a day.[2] The average
dietary intake of some vitamins, such as folic acid, pantothenic acid,
vitamin A, beta-carotene, vitamin C and B1, is likely to be inadequate
from diet alone.[2] "While most vitamins are very well absorbed [from
food], most essential minerals are not."[4] Results of the 1982-1991
Total Diet Studies indicated that Intakes of calcium, magnesium, iron
(females only), zinc and copper were below recommended intakes for some
groups of individuals.[5]"
http://supplements.naturalhealthperspective.com/poordiets.html

"Researchers obtained information from about 200 men and women
participating in a study on diet. The volunteers were 79 years of age
and older and were living in a rural section of Iowa, a state in the
Midwestern section of the United States. The participants' diets were
lacking in variety, with an average of only 22 different foods consumed
over the three-day period. In fact, only about 20% of the group
consumed adequate amounts of at least 16 essential nutrients.
Furthermore, about 40% of the group consumed diets defined by the
researchers as inferior, containing adequate amounts of 13 or fewer
nutrients. More than half of the respondents' diets were lacking in
folate, vitamins D and E, calcium, and magnesium.[3]"
http://naturalhealthperspective.com/supplements/
John Sankey - 21 May 2005 22:29 GMT
The belief that one must consume huge amounts of food in order to be
adequately nourished naturally is incorrect. See
http://sankey.ws/dietpills.html
for some specific examples with real numbers attached.

It is *possible* to obtain the recommended daily intake (RDI) of all
USDA-quantified nutrients with as little as 1000 calories/day of
natural foods (though I admit I wouldn't stick to that narrow a diet
for long!) And remember that the RDIs used for the calculations on
that page are roughly double the real requirement of healthy people,
to give wiggle room for those with minor health problems.

It is easy to be naturally well nourished on 2000 calories/day - lots
of food choices. It just depends on what you eat. It's also easy to
overdose with artificially-concentrated supplements, dangerously so
with most fat-soluble nutrients.
John Sankey - 22 May 2005 22:17 GMT
There is a minimum quantity of dietary protein per body weight that
if not reached results in nitrogen imbalance and subsequent health
problems. That minimum amount is related to body weight and so is
best expressed in grams per kg body weight per day. A similar measure
is applicable to each of the essential amino acids separately, and
expressed best in the same units. There is ample literature on this.

There is a maximum protein percentage of diet above which toxicity
effects are observed. There is not much quantitative literature on
this.

I summarize some of these points at
http://sankey.ws/protein.html

So, whether you relate protein in diet to body weight or to diet
percentage depends on what aspect you are discussing.
 
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