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Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / May 2005

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So Cal Natv - 30 Apr 2005 15:49 GMT
Ok all, I could use some other opinions. I've recently changed my
lifestyle and my relationship with food, permanently, and it's resulted
in substantial weight loss over the last 7 weeks (32 pounds as of
yesterday). I've visited my doctor and he's given my new changes his
blessing, but I'm still wondering about possible health risks associated
to the fast drop in weight. I'm curious what problems you see with the
following plan:

* I have cut red meats, dairy and bread from my diet. These items all
caused an assortment of problems with my health over the years (I'm 37
by the way).

* I've replaced the above items with soy/tofu veggie replacements, but
my meals are also much smaller than they used to be.

* I eat nothing but fruit until noon everyday, eating 3-5 pieces of
fresh fruit daily.

* Luch and dinner are very low in fat, with most including veggie
alternative items, with some chicken or fish mixed in about every other
day. Beans and veggies are the most common dinner items.

* For fluids, I consume nothing but water or juice that I've squeezed.
In the 7 weeks since I started, I've had nothing else.

* Snacks have been limited to unsalted nuts of any type and soy based
yogurts or ice cream. Veggies and fruit are always a part of the snack
plan as well.

* Supplements - Flaxseed oil with each meal, multivitamins daily, and
occasionally coconut oil supplements (I've always had digestive problems
and it seems to help).

These all meants HUGE changes from my previous food lifestyle which was
heavy in fat content and included LOTS of red meats, bread, and suger
based items. By the way, it was brought on by dad's triple bypass and
the fact I want to be around a long time with several chidren of my own.
Bad food is no longer an option in my life.

Anyway, with almost no excersise (situps and pushups on the excersise
ball only), I've consistently lost 4-5 lbs per week since I started. I
expected to lose some weight with the changes, but not this much without
the excersise. It's been a blessing, but I'm still curious if there's
anything to worry about.

At this point I feel great and the doctor has said he can't find any
problems with these changes. Just curious what everyone in this group
thinks.

Thanks for the help and input.
John Sankey - 30 Apr 2005 23:39 GMT
Just to start:
check the Metropolitan Life weight tables
http://www.healthchecksystems.com/heightweightchart.htm
to find out what you should end up at. Most dietitians advise against
losing weight so fast, and it is important to ramp up your calories
as you approach ideal weight. There should be lots of lipids, protein
and salt in your soy products, but you should check all your other
nutrients.
Pizza Girl - 01 May 2005 01:57 GMT
Your gallbladdar needs to work. This takes fat intake. If it has nothing to
do it can accumulate stones and the next time you eat fats it has to expel
bile to assist in digestion you have a gallbladdar attack because it is
plugged up.

Sounds like a Diamond plan.

> Ok all, I could use some other opinions. I've recently changed my
> lifestyle and my relationship with food, permanently, and it's resulted
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
>
> Thanks for the help and input.
joni - 02 May 2005 16:59 GMT
> Your gallbladdar needs to work. This takes fat intake.

The OP did say she has daily flaxseed oil, sometimes coconut oil, and
occasionally chicken in her salads. So she is probably getting enough
fats to entertain her gallbladder.
I would recommend that she track her daily foods with a free program
like FitDay which can help her make better nutrient choices and it will
show the breakdown of what she eats.  http://www.fitday.com
Altho fruits & veggies rule, she may not be getting enough protein
(altho she mentions soy alternatives) and what or where is the grain
family in there? Sure bread is one thing she can stay away from but
what about some good grains like brown rice or oatmeal? I think she is
missing some important nutrients and could be doing much better in her
overall choices. Four to five pounds a week really is a bit too fast
(can we say stretchmarks? lol!) and will most likely level out a bit as
she gets closer to her goal weight. Adding in a few smaller meals or
bigger portions will slow that down to a healthier adjustment for her
body to handle. You want healthy eating, not starvation levels.
Also now that she has lost some weight, feels better etc, she really
should be exercising daily. Weights increase bone density, cardio
improves the cardiovascular system, all to her good longterm health
advantage. And thats why she started this journey, to be healthier so
adding in exercise will benefit her goals.

joni
Robert - 02 May 2005 22:04 GMT
> Your gallbladdar needs to work. This takes fat intake. If it has nothing to
> do it can accumulate stones and the next time you eat fats it has to expel
> bile to assist in digestion you have a gallbladdar attack because it is
> plugged up.

Not even close. Where in the world did you get that from? Stones do not
accumulate because the gallbladdar has nothing to do.
Pizza Girl - 03 May 2005 01:39 GMT
I got that from several personal experiences and many doctors.

> > Your gallbladdar needs to work. This takes fat intake. If it has nothing
> to
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Not even close. Where in the world did you get that from? Stones do not
> accumulate because the gallbladdar has nothing to do.
Robert - 03 May 2005 03:39 GMT
Postgrad Med. 1991 Oct;90(5):119-26. Related Articles, Books, LinkOut

Gallstone symptoms. Myth and reality.

Egbert AM.

Department of Internal Medicine, University of Kansas School of Medicine,
Wichita 67214-3199.

Gallstones are very common, but at least two thirds of detected stones are
asymptomatic and a large number undoubtedly go undetected. The presence of
symptoms or complications is the indication for surgery. It is important to
accurately identify which symptoms are caused by gallstones, because
removing the gallbladder will relieve only these symptoms. Making this
determination is a challenge, however, because the classic picture of
biliary colic may be inaccurate and the connection between gallstone disease
and flatulent dyspepsia is questionable at best. Descriptions of both these
conditions are based on anecdotal evidence or reports of uncontrolled
surgical series. A review of recent controlled trials suggests that the pain
of biliary colic is constant and infrequent, comes in episodes lasting 1 to
5 hours, is located in the epigastrium or right upper quadrant of the
abdomen, and characteristically occurs at night. There are few additional
symptoms other than nausea or vomiting, and colic is not induced by eating
fatty meals. Flatulent dyspepsia--a symptom complex of vague pain in the
right upper quadrant, fatty-food intolerance, and bloating--is probably not
related to the presence of gallstones in the majority of patients.

PMID: 1924000 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Nutrition. 2005 Mar;21(3):339-47. Related Articles, Books, LinkOut

Effect of the type of dietary fat on biliary lipid composition and bile
lithogenicity in humans with cholesterol gallstone disease.

Yago MD, Gonzalez V, Serrano P, Calpena R, Martinez MA, Martinez-Victoria E,
Manas M.

Institute of Nutrition and Food Technology, Department of Physiology,
University of Granada, Granada, Spain.

OBJECTIVE: The effect of the type of dietary fat on bile lipids and
lithogenicity is unclear. This study compared the effects of two dietary
oils that differed in fatty acid profile on biliary lipid composition in
humans. METHODS: Female patients who had cholesterol gallstones and were
scheduled for elective cholecystectomy were studied. For 30 d before
surgery, subjects were kept on diets that contained olive oil (olive oil
group, n = 9) or sunflower oil (sunflower oil group, n = 9) as the main
source of fat. Gallbladder bile and stones were sampled at surgery. After
cholecystectomy, duodenal samples were collected by nasoduodenal intubation
during fasting and after administration of mixed liquid meals that included
the corresponding dietary oil. Duodenal and gallbladder bile samples were
analyzed for cholesterol, phospholipids, and total bile acids by established
methods. Individual bile acid conjugates in gallbladder bile were measured
by high-performance liquid chromatography. Gallstones were analyzed by
semiquantitative polarizing light microscopy. RESULTS: Despite marked
differences in the absolute concentration of biliary lipids and total lipid
content, manipulation of dietary fat ingestion did not influence the
cholesterol saturation or the profile of individual bile acids in
gallbladder bile obtained from patients who had gallstones. All but one
subject had mixed cholesterol stones. A cholesterol saturation index of
hepatic bile in fasted cholecystectomized patients was similar in both
dietary groups and indicative of supersaturation. In response to the test
meal, the cholesterol saturation index decreased significantly in patients
given the olive oil diet, reaching values lower than one at 120 min
postprandially. In contrast, hepatic bile secreted by patients who consumed
sunflower oil appeared supersaturated (cholesterol saturation index >1.5)
throughout the experiment. CONCLUSIONS: Our results suggest that the type of
dietary fat habitually consumed can influence bile composition in humans. In
gallbladder, this influence was noted in the presence of more concentrated
bile in the olive oil group. However, this was not translated into a
modification of cholesterol saturation, which is likely due to the fact that
cholesterol gallstones were present by the time the dietary intervention
started. The finding that a typical postprandial variation in hepatic bile
lithogenicity occurred only in olive oil patients was revealing. While
keeping in mind the methodologic limitations of this part of the study, some
gastrointestinal and metabolic mechanisms for this effect are discussed.

PMID: 15797676 [PubMed - in process]

> I got that from several personal experiences and many doctors.
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> > Not even close. Where in the world did you get that from? Stones do not
> > accumulate because the gallbladdar has nothing to do.
Pizza Girl - 03 May 2005 03:45 GMT
Post something relevant

> Postgrad Med. 1991 Oct;90(5):119-26. Related Articles, Books, LinkOut
>
[quoted text clipped - 88 lines]
> > > Not even close. Where in the world did you get that from? Stones do not
> > > accumulate because the gallbladdar has nothing to do.
Robert - 03 May 2005 05:46 GMT
> Post something relevant
You are correct I could not find anything related to your posting.
"Your gallbladdar needs to work. This takes fat intake. If it has nothing to
do it can accumulate stones and the next time you eat fats it has to expel
bile to assist in digestion you have a gallbladdar attack because it is
plugged up."

I could not find anything related to what you wrote.
I guess that makes it irrelevent. If I can't find it then it has to be
because I didn't look hard enough. It must exist out there as common
knoweldge. I guess one has to eat a lot of fat in order to make the
gallbaldder work properly.

> > Postgrad Med. 1991 Oct;90(5):119-26. Related Articles, Books, LinkOut
> >
[quoted text clipped - 106 lines]
> not
> > > > accumulate because the gallbladdar has nothing to do.
Pizza Girl - 03 May 2005 22:39 GMT
So then you disagree with what you stated?

> > Post something relevant
> You are correct I could not find anything related to your posting.
[quoted text clipped - 136 lines]
> > not
> > > > > accumulate because the gallbladdar has nothing to do.
Roger Rabbit - 08 May 2005 02:08 GMT
Here's a few bucks, go get yourself a sarcasm detector.

rr

>So then you disagree with what you stated?
>
[quoted text clipped - 160 lines]
>> > not
>> > > > > accumulate because the gallbladdar has nothing to do.
Pizza Girl - 01 May 2005 01:58 GMT
Your gallbladdar needs to work. This takes fat intake. If it has nothing to
do it can accumulate stones and the next time you eat fats it has to expel
bile to assist in digestion you have a gallbladdar attack because it is
plugged up.

Sounds like a Diamond plan.

> Ok all, I could use some other opinions. I've recently changed my
> lifestyle and my relationship with food, permanently, and it's resulted
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
>
> Thanks for the help and input.
 
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