Question for the nutrition science folks re. Atkins

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szasz@my-deja.com - 29 Apr 2005 15:05 GMT

I have recently started doing the Atkins diet (except for one tweak, I
am still doing moderate amounts of caffeine in the form of coffee and
green tea).

I decided to start this plan because I had moved into some bad habits
over the past year, "stress eating" chocolate bars and chips, mostly
due to the stress of finishing a stressful Ph.D. program, internship,
and postdoctoral training, much of it away from home and from the wife.
I think I decided to start this to try and break these bad habits, and
start some new, better ones.

On the other hand, I am not incredibly interested in staying on a
hugely regimented and structured plan, or "diet" for life. I actually
am suprised I'm doing this, because I think I've mostly ascribed to the
Dr. Dean Edell philosophy, that diets are bad ideas, and unrealistic,
and etc, and that life should be about moderation, but with plenty of
room to "Eat, Drink and Be Merry."

I excercise (running and biking) approximately 3-5 times per week,
30-45 minutes at a time, and enjoy it greatly. I have signed up to see
a nutritionist at the hospital where I work (I'm a psychologist). The
nutritionist says she's generally against Atkins, but thinks it can be
OK over the short-term. I probably agree with her on this.

Do any of you have some advice as to where I should go with all of
this? I'm missing my grains already... for example, I think one of the
things I want to restart right now is a bowl of "all-bran" cereal in
the mornings, but instead I've been doing the usual, eggs and bacon,
etc. This doesn't seem right, and I'm starting to tire of this emphasis
on high-fat, high protein foods already. I know it will start to change
in a week or so if I stick to the "Atkins way," but this just doesn't
seem right.

However, it's been only a week and I've lost 4 pounds already. Yeah, I
know its just water and glycogen most likely, but its a welcome change
from the 20 pounds I've gained over the last year.

Anyways, just a general ramble. Hopefully you folks can give me some
general suggestions or questions I can bring with me when I talk to
this nutritionist.

BTW I'm 6 foot 3, weight 254 pounds, large frame, and I think probably
I could use to get back to 200 or at least 210 pounds for me to feel
better about my body.

Thanks for listening, helpful comments welcomed (and as usual, since
this is Usenet, ad hominems and random flames ignored).

Reply to this Message

TC - 29 Apr 2005 15:25 GMT

s...@my-deja.com wrote:

> I have recently started doing the Atkins diet (except for one tweak, I
> am still doing moderate amounts of caffeine in the form of coffee and
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> and etc, and that life should be about moderation, but with plenty of
> room to "Eat, Drink and Be Merry."

It doesn't have to be hugely regimented. I started with the Zone which
is probably the most regimented of the low-carb diets. I now can easily
eyeball a meal that fits my low-carb requirements. I roughly follow
basic low-carb guidelines. It has become my standard way of eating, and
it doesn't need a lot of effort or regimentation on my part to stick to
it.

Diets are a bad idea. Eating a healthy diet is a necessity of life and
health. The low-carb diet is about moderation, moderation of refined
high-carb manufactured carbohydrates. It is shifting from high carb
manufactured refined carbs to fresh nutrition packed whole food carbs
like fruits and vegetables. There is an abundance of "Eat, Drink and be
Merry" on low-carb. You can eat 'til you are full and eat like a king.
Just think BBQ, xmas turkey, etc. Pork fat rules.

> I excercise (running and biking) approximately 3-5 times per week,
> 30-45 minutes at a time, and enjoy it greatly. I have signed up to see
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> in a week or so if I stick to the "Atkins way," but this just doesn't
> seem right.

You're dependence on grains will dissipate. You'll wonder what you ever
saw in them. Everytime I eat grains, I regret it. Makes me feel bloated
and gassy and gives me a wierd head spin feeling.

Here is some interesting reading about high animal-source food diet:

http://www.biblelife.org/stefansson1.htm

Really interesting reading.

> However, it's been only a week and I've lost 4 pounds already. Yeah, I
> know its just water and glycogen most likely, but its a welcome change
> from the 20 pounds I've gained over the last year.

>From this moment on, you have full control of your weight. No one on a

low fat "diet" can say that. Millions have struggled, unsuccessfully,
with calorie counting. That frustration is behind you. You *will*
succeed. But you have to stick with it. But don't forget to treat
yourself too. I found it difficult to start eating high-carb again,
just felt like crap.

> Anyways, just a general ramble. Hopefully you folks can give me some
> general suggestions or questions I can bring with me when I talk to
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Thanks for listening, helpful comments welcomed (and as usual, since
> this is Usenet, ad hominems and random flames ignored).

I give you about six months to get to around 220, easy. The rest will
take a bit longer. Remember, you did not get to 254 overnight, you will
not lose it overnight. But you are now in the drivers seat and are in
full control of your weight.

Good luck and keep us updated.

TC

Reply to this Message

TC - 29 Apr 2005 15:26 GMT

BTW, you will find a lot more support in this ng:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.support.diet.low-carb?hl=en

Check it out.

TC

s...@my-deja.com wrote:

> I have recently started doing the Atkins diet (except for one tweak, I
> am still doing moderate amounts of caffeine in the form of coffee and
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
> Thanks for listening, helpful comments welcomed (and as usual, since
> this is Usenet, ad hominems and random flames ignored).

Reply to this Message

Stacey Bender - 29 Apr 2005 15:37 GMT

> On the other hand, I am not incredibly interested in staying on a
> hugely regimented and structured plan, or "diet" for life. I actually
> am suprised I'm doing this, because I think I've mostly ascribed to the
> Dr. Dean Edell philosophy, that diets are bad ideas, and unrealistic,
> and etc, and that life should be about moderation, but with plenty of
> room to "Eat, Drink and Be Merry."

That's like getting sex tips from a priest. Dr. Dean, though i love his
show, has no clue what it's like for people who are prone to obesity.
He's a bean pole.

> Do any of you have some advice as to where I should go with all of
> this? I'm missing my grains already... for example, I think one of the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> in a week or so if I stick to the "Atkins way," but this just doesn't
> seem right.

Dr. Dean has that right. Most people fall of monotonous diets because
they are well, boring. If you are able to control your portions you
should consider having any food you want. Most of us find portion
control difficult though.

> Anyways, just a general ramble. Hopefully you folks can give me some
> general suggestions or questions I can bring with me when I talk to
> this nutritionist.

Keep up getting your calorie deficit through exercise and find a diet
you can your calories to a target level. Atkins works because you eat
less calories, presumably because you get full enough and lessen your
cravings. As most people want the bad stuff because it tastes good,
people eventually fall of atkins like any other diet.

Reply to this Message

szasz@my-deja.com - 29 Apr 2005 17:50 GMT

I need to know that I can do bad stuff every once in a while, or I'm
not going to stick with this diet. Psychologically more than anything.
I don't think I believe in Dr. Atkins' idea of "carbohydrate addiction"
as some disease process akin to alcoholism or something, but I do
believe people can fall into bad habits - in my case, some bad eating
habits which I'm trying to arrest.

I really want better habits, not to become an ascetic.

What's everyone's best guess - if I keep the Induction phase short, and
climb up the "rungs" of the Atkins OWL ladder fairly quickly (e.g.,
adding back nuts, berries, whole grains back) and stay away from the
candy bars and franken-foods for the next 6 months, is this a safe diet
to be on?

I don't want to lose muscle mass preferentially. I also don't want to
be hurting myself by ingesting all of this fat.

Maybe this was a bad idea. This is the first diet I ever have tried and
of course I choose the weirdest one.

Anyways, I'm in the cranky phase of this diet. Take what I'm saying
with a grain of salt.

> > On the other hand, I am not incredibly interested in staying on a
> > hugely regimented and structured plan, or "diet" for life. I actually
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> That's like getting sex tips from a priest. Dr. Dean, though i love his
> show, has no clue what it's like for people who are prone to obesity.

> He's a bean pole.
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Dr. Dean has that right. Most people fall of monotonous diets because

> they are well, boring. If you are able to control your portions you
> should consider having any food you want. Most of us find portion
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Keep up getting your calorie deficit through exercise and find a diet

> you can your calories to a target level. Atkins works because you eat

> less calories, presumably because you get full enough and lessen your

> cravings. As most people want the bad stuff because it tastes good,
> people eventually fall of atkins like any other diet.

Reply to this Message

TC - 29 Apr 2005 17:57 GMT

s...@my-deja.com wrote:

> I need to know that I can do bad stuff every once in a while, or I'm
> not going to stick with this diet. Psychologically more than anything.
> I don't think I believe in Dr. Atkins' idea of "carbohydrate addiction"
> as some disease process akin to alcoholism or something, but I do
> believe people can fall into bad habits - in my case, some bad eating
> habits which I'm trying to arrest.

Your carbs cravings are proof of the addictive nature of refined carbs.
Some people look at addictions as a disease.?!

> I really want better habits, not to become an ascetic.

No problem. That is what low-carb is about. better habits.

> What's everyone's best guess - if I keep the Induction phase short, and
> climb up the "rungs" of the Atkins OWL ladder fairly quickly (e.g.,
> adding back nuts, berries, whole grains back) and stay away from the
> candy bars and franken-foods for the next 6 months, is this a safe diet
> to be on?

If you do atkins, do atkins. 2 weeks induction.

> I don't want to lose muscle mass preferentially. I also don't want to
> be hurting myself by ingesting all of this fat.

You wont on both counts.

> Maybe this was a bad idea. This is the first diet I ever have tried and
> of course I choose the weirdest one.

It was a good idea.

> Anyways, I'm in the cranky phase of this diet. Take what I'm saying
> with a grain of salt.

Same with anything you hear in this ng.

TC

Reply to this Message

szasz@my-deja.com - 29 Apr 2005 23:37 GMT

> s...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > I need to know that I can do bad stuff every once in a while, or I'm
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Your carbs cravings are proof of the addictive nature of refined carbs.
> Some people look at addictions as a disease.?!

I don't look at addiction as a disease. I frankly think there's a lot
of problems with the disease metaphor of addiction, and I think it's a
particularly glaringly weak part of Dr. Atkins' book. Just my opinion.
I can explain more if you like - as a psychologist, I'm *packed* with
professional opinions on this issue.

Yeah, so I crave grains. I only have been eating them for the past 25
years. I've been using computers for recreational purposes of the past
20 years. If you took that away I would crave it as well. Doesn't mean
there's a disease going on.

> > I really want better habits, not to become an ascetic.
>
> No problem. That is what low-carb is about. better habits.

That's what I've been told...

> > What's everyone's best guess - if I keep the Induction phase short,
> and
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> If you do atkins, do atkins. 2 weeks induction.

I can do that. I think one of the best parts of induction is that its
like food boot camp for me. I've ditched the candy bars and the booze,
which already makes me feel a lot better. I'm on day 7 and my workout
intensity is basically back where it used to be.

I have no desire to return to my candy bar habit, but I do miss the
booze. I know, one more week and I can do some Grey Goose vodka again
if I like (yum).

> > I don't want to lose muscle mass preferentially. I also don't want to
> > be hurting myself by ingesting all of this fat.
>
> You wont on both counts.

Again, that's what Dr. Atkins says... I feel nervous putting my
health in the hands of a deceased diet guru. But I'm doing it, so I
might as well stick it out.

> > Maybe this was a bad idea. This is the first diet I ever have tried
> and
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> TC

Reply to this Message

mark - 30 Apr 2005 00:07 GMT

>s...@my-deja.com wrote:
>> I need to know that I can do bad stuff every once in a while, or I'm
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>Your carbs cravings are proof of the addictive nature of refined carbs.
>Some people look at addictions as a disease.?!

I really don't understand your statement. Is food addictive? You
have already said grains make you sick so you obviously don't have
cravings for carbs do you? Do you have cravings for animal fats and
does that make them addictive?

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