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Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / June 2005

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Recommended Body mass index thresholds for women

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Stéphane KLEIN - 16 Apr 2005 17:59 GMT
Hello,

I read Body mass index wikipedia article
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_mass_index) and I suprised than the
recommendation doesn't to differencing man and girl. With the same
weight and height a women can be obese and not a man.

Can you explain why the Body mass index doesn't this difference ?

Thanks for your help
Stéphane
joni - 17 Apr 2005 04:07 GMT
> I read Body mass index wikipedia article
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_mass_index) and I
> suprised than the recommendation doesn't to differencing
>  man and girl. With the same weight and height a women
> can be obese and not a man. Can you explain why the
> Body mass index doesn't this difference ?

The BMI is an outdated statistical formula that doesnt translate into
real life. Not only does it not address the gender or age factors but
the most important variable is a persons BODYFAT percentage. Two men
could weigh 180lbs @ 6ft tall but one is at 10% bodyfat and the other
at 28% bodyfat - they would have totally differen physiques yet be
considered the same BMI - so its a stupid outdated formula.

joni
Alf Christophersen - 17 Apr 2005 12:43 GMT
>The BMI is an outdated statistical formula that doesnt translate into
>real life. Not only does it not address the gender or age factors but
>the most important variable is a persons BODYFAT percentage. Two men
>could weigh 180lbs @ 6ft tall but one is at 10% bodyfat and the other
>at 28% bodyfat - they would have totally differen physiques yet be
>considered the same BMI - so its a stupid outdated formula.

Do you have some new method of measuring lean body mass with high
precision? (<5% deviance)
BMI can be measured with very high precision.
Only problem is when BMI is on the limit to be fat, that is, BMI
25-28.
When passing BMI of 30, you are definitively overweight, even if you
have a lot of muscles (you must have in order to move). Generally, a
person with BMI 35 has much higher total EE than a person of 20.
Enrico C - 27 May 2005 18:37 GMT
>>The BMI is an outdated statistical formula that doesnt translate into
>>real life. Not only does it not address the gender or age factors but
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Do you have some new method of measuring lean body mass with high
> precision? (<5% deviance)

Well, I don't know if it's "high precision", but I read of this formula
(for men):

Percentage of fat body mass =
= {Weight in kilos - [44.636 + (1.0817 * Weight in kilos) - (0.7396 * Waist
in centimeters)]}/Weight in kilos*100

For instance, if Weight is 63 Kg and Waist is 78 cm, here we go...:

{63 - [44.636 + (1.0817 * 63) - (0.7396 * 78)]} / 63 * 100
=  (63 - 44.636 - 1.0817 * 63 + 0.7396 * 78) / 63 * 100
= (18.364 - 68,1471 + 57.6888) / 63 * 100
= 12,5% fat body mass

> BMI can be measured with very high precision.
> Only problem is when BMI is on the limit to be fat, that is, BMI
> 25-28.
> When passing BMI of 30, you are definitively overweight, even if you
> have a lot of muscles (you must have in order to move). Generally, a
> person with BMI 35 has much higher total EE than a person of 20.

I read that someone has a different view about that....

they say that BMI shouldn't exceed 22% in men and 20% in women,

and that *fat body mass* shouldn't exceed 12% (twelve percent) in men and
20%  (twenty percent) in women.

In other words, that you can be healthy only if you are fit and lean.

What do you think?

Signature

Enrico C

Bob - 27 May 2005 22:40 GMT
>>>The BMI is an outdated statistical formula that doesnt translate into
>>>real life. Not only does it not address the gender or age factors but
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>
>they say that BMI shouldn't exceed 22% in men and 20% in women,

I think it should be the other way around for obvious reasons.
Enrico C - 27 May 2005 22:55 GMT
>>they say that BMI shouldn't exceed 22% in men and 20% in women,
>>
> I think it should be the other way around for obvious reasons.

Right you are!

Signature

Enrico C

calypso47@voyager.net - 28 May 2005 00:18 GMT
The bmi does exactly what it was designed to do.  Every one wants to tell
us how arnnie s. proves it is wrong, or some nfl jock; and I will throw in
fashion models to make the same point in the oppisite direction.  Both are
not normal, they are distortions people express in the normal distribution
curve that bmi uses.  Nor is the question ignored by the "stupid"
scientists who don't know what direction is up, because evryone wants to
see themselves as another arnnie or model who proves that the abnormal is
the rule. In the now outdated charts using "small, medium, large" bones;
everyone saw themselves as "large" who could carry more weight.  The best
use of the bmi is in conjunction with waiste measure, the latter being
more finely tuned to the more specific question of body fat percent and
distribution then the bmi does as a statistical expression that covers
just about everyone just fine.  Consider:

http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/obesity/e_txtbk/txgd/4142.htm

The numbers cover both genders the same, there has been some adjustment
based on populations in some areas where the risk factors upon which the
bmi cutoff,ie. 25 for upper limit for normal, were originally formed. In
those populations it is usually found that the cutoff is best put at 23 or
so to account for the same risk level.

>>>>The BMI is an outdated statistical formula that doesnt translate into
>>>>real life. Not only does it not address the gender or age factors but
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>>
>I think it should be the other way around for obvious reasons.
Alf Christophersen - 12 Jun 2005 18:56 GMT
>>>The BMI is an outdated statistical formula that doesnt translate into
>>>real life. Not only does it not address the gender or age factors but
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>= (18.364 - 68,1471 + 57.6888) / 63 * 100
>= 12,5% fat body mass

Could you send me privately the reference to the publication of this
empirical formula ??

Would be of interest in a computer program I'm making.
Enrico C - 14 Jun 2005 21:33 GMT
>>>>The BMI is an outdated statistical formula that doesnt translate into
>>>>real life. Not only does it not address the gender or age factors but
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> Would be of interest in a computer program I'm making.

I found it in a piece of software on
http://www.cemax.it/download.html (in Italian)

I've just emailed the author and asked him if he can give me some
reference.

Btw, I tested the formula in a real case and it gave the same result as Dr
Sears' fat mass calculator (in that case at least).

http://www.drsears.com/drsearspages/bodyfatcalmale.jsp

Signature

Enrico C

Alf Christophersen - 22 Jun 2005 23:04 GMT
>I found it in a piece of software on
>http://www.cemax.it/download.html (in Italian)
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>http://www.drsears.com/drsearspages/bodyfatcalmale.jsp

Thanx. Possibly the same formula then?
Enrico C - 23 Jun 2005 06:26 GMT
>>I found it in a piece of software on
>>http://www.cemax.it/download.html (in Italian)
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Thanx. Possibly the same formula then?

Nope. In Dr Sears' formula, also wrist circumference counts.

Signature

Enrico C

Laurie - 20 Apr 2005 07:34 GMT
\
> I read Body mass index wikipedia article
http://www.ecologos.org/bmi.htm

   Laurie
 
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