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Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / March 2005Immunocal
Can anyone in this forum direct me to solid info regarding glutathione supplements such as Immunocal? My mother (79) spends $75 a month for this product [and a small fortune for a mind-boggling array of vitamins and other "supplements"] and says she no longer needs flu shots, since she is "strengthening her immune system" by taking Immunocal. There is no such thing as "no longer needs flu shots". You can not strengthen your immune system to substitute it for flu shots. You should know better. > Can anyone in this forum direct me to solid info regarding glutathione > supplements such as Immunocal? > My mother (79) spends $75 a month for this product [and a small fortune for > a mind-boggling array of vitamins and other "supplements"] and says she no > longer needs flu shots, since she is "strengthening her immune system" by > taking Immunocal. Glutathion is a common supplement. Try GNC, or something. > Can anyone in this forum direct me to solid info regarding glutathione > supplements such as Immunocal? > My mother (79) spends $75 a month for this product [and a small fortune for > a mind-boggling array of vitamins and other "supplements"] and says she no > longer needs flu shots, since she is "strengthening her immune system" by > taking Immunocal. Apparently the point of my post was not clear. I am not "approving" my mother's actions--and I'm not seeking a cheaper source of glutathione! I'd like to find a source of "solid" (rational, scientifically sound) information regarding the claims of efficacy for this substance. I fear that my mother is endangering her health by relying on quackery instead of genuine medical science. > Glutathion is a common supplement. Try GNC, or something. >> Can anyone in this forum direct me to solid info regarding glutathione [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> that she no longer needs flu shots, since she is "strengthening her >> immune system" by taking Immunocal. >Apparently the point of my post was not clear. I am not "approving" my >mother's actions--and I'm not seeking a cheaper source of glutathione! >I'd like to find a source of "solid" (rational, scientifically sound) >information regarding the claims of efficacy for this substance. >I fear that my mother is endangering her health by relying on quackery >instead of genuine medical science. Glutathione react quite easily and form GSSG instead, which need tough reduction systems in order to recover back to GSH. GSH is synthesized continually in body,but can be decreased if diet lacks the ingredients.Cysteine availabilty maybe most important. Ithink GSH eaten will be degraded in stomach by endopeptidases rather quickly to cysteine, glutamate and the third amino acid (which I have forgotten just now) which after uptake in intestine endothelial cells are reused for GSH. Kidney also are very active in degrading GSH and GSSG. To reduce GSSG you need redoxin reductase and redoxin. And selenium. Also taurine has a GSH sparing effect. GSH is important for the immune system by the way, so the thoughts behind the stuff is ok, But eating GSH is most probably waisting money to snake oil sellers. snip >GSH is important for the immune system by the way, so the thoughts >behind the stuff is ok, But eating GSH is most probably waisting money >to snake oil sellers. Whey proteins in general have a good amount of cysteine. In the context of kids with HIV, use of whey proteins (which are NOT the same as glutathione but a fraction of milk) helped the kids to grow. Kids with HIV suffer "failure to thrive." Using whey, NAC, alpha lipoic acid or milk thistle may help restore intracellular levels of glutathione and this can be useful in a number of chronic, degenerative diseases. Glutathione is made up of three amino acids, cysteine, glutamic acid and glycine (there ya go, alf!). Cysteine is the rate-limiting amino acid in its formation. Immunocal I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. They sold that crap, which doesn't mix very well, at OUTRAGEOUS prices, ripping people off for YEARS on an MLM basis. Screw them. Other products are as good or better, depending on the outcome you're looking for and MUCH cheaper. I mean, come on. It is considered a by-product in the dairy industry (but one with good uses). George M. Carter They still sell "that crap" and through an MLM scheme. My mother pays $70 a month, plus "shipping and handling." > Immunocal I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. They sold that crap, > which doesn't mix very well, at OUTRAGEOUS prices, ripping people off for > YEARS on an MLM basis. Screw them. Other products are as good or better, > depending on the outcome you're looking for and MUCH cheaper. I mean, come > on. It is considered a by-product in the dairy industry (but one with good > uses). George M. Carter >They still sell "that crap" and through an MLM scheme. My mother pays $70 a >month, plus "shipping and handling." She can get whey proteins for as little as $15-20 for 900 grams. Various buyers' clubs in Houston, New York and Atlanta have whey protein made by Ultimate Balance, Jarrow, Nutrivir and Next's Designer Protein which are, as far as I can tell, all just fine. They will give you the benefit at a far more reasonable price -- and I think there IS benefit to be had! Just don't need to support the ripoff con artists at Immunocal. George M. Carter >Glutathione is made up of three amino acids, cysteine, glutamic acid >and glycine (there ya go, alf!). Cysteine is the rate-limiting amino >acid in its formation. I should have remembered that, but I finished biochemistry class back in 1985, and even I now and then update my mind about GSH, the complete structure is easily forgotten :-( By the way, lack of cysteine/methionine in diet in many countries in Africa is maybe a main component of why HIV/AIDS spreads so fast in Africa. Problem is that soil in itself has one of the most poor composition of sulphur in the whole world, and agriculture worsen it by shortcircuting the sulphur cycle in plants. Main responsible for circulating in soil is trees and rottening plants. Agriculture cut down trees in area of agriculture to increase area of production. In these area sulphur is washed down by rain and there are no more roots around that may pump up into the tree and leaves the sulphur that has been washed down deep in soil. And the sulphur end in the end up in rivers and poured into sea. The other way of loosing sulphur is by burning dry plants and thus volatilizing the sulphur content. I think the last year Peace Nobelprize winner are on to an important road of defending against HIV spreading by planting trees and thus start recycling sulphur so food could again start to contain more cystein or methionin that could be converted to cysteine. >>Glutathione is made up of three amino acids, cysteine, glutamic acid >>and glycine (there ya go, alf!). Cysteine is the rate-limiting amino [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >sulphur in the whole world, and agriculture worsen it by >shortcircuting the sulphur cycle in plants. I wonder how we might be able to get more access to people with HIV there to a) a multivitamin and b) N-acetylcysteine (NAC)? I have colleagues in Africa who have made some great progress, if in a limited way, using nutritional interventions to slow disease progression. And indeed, a couple of large studies of the use of a multi in Tanzania and Thailand have shown impressive results. In the Tanzanian study, a multi reduced the rate of progression by 30%. Among people with low CD4 counts and significant HIV loads, a multi reduced the rate of mortality and the development of opportunistic infections. In that regard, I'd also say selenium (which can be found in many potent multis) can have a signfiicant impact as well. snip...> >I think the last year Peace Nobelprize winner are on to an important >road of defending against HIV spreading by planting trees and thus >start recycling sulphur so food could again start to contain more >cystein or methionin that could be converted to cysteine. Agreed!! We need to look at the horrific way agriculture and the use of things like the "Structural Adjustment Programs" and their warped children (bad trade deals) push economies into growing so-called "cash crops" while trade barriers prevent access to western markets for other crops. To the extent agriculture is a key part of economic stability, I think there are methods and means to also assure access to good nutrition for local people as well as improved means to mitigate the devastating environmental impact. George M. Carter |
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