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Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / February 2005Weight Loss. Calorie deficient diet? add protein?
Been loosing weight at quite a steady pace over the last 2-3 months through change in diet. Current estimate is bodyfat of about 31% (which is high for a male), whith a lean body mass of about 72Kg. Been loosing average of 2.1 Lb/week with a rough estimate of 60-70% being fat loss (average BIA readings). A BMR calculator off the net suggests a BMR of 2021, and about 2600 with activity. I have no idea if this corrolates with the weight loss so far. Just as a snapshot I works out my intake for yesterday and found: 1465 Calories, with 23% fat/33%carbs/43%protein. A search on google suggests that protein intake during fat loss should be 1g/lb - or 1g/lb or lean body mass. If lean mass is 72kg, this equates to 159lb or 159grams of protein a day - somewhat higher that yesterdays intake (which was probably higher than average in any case, due to 83% of the protein intake coming from eating steak! Would increasing protein through supplimentation improve weight loss (fat loss) and body tone over the current diet? If I added 2x protein supplements this would provide. 1761 calories, with 17%fats/25%carbs/57%protein (and a total of 163grms of protein) i.e is it adventageous to increase calories ingested (and extra 300) - in return for an extra 70gr protein? > Been loosing weight at quite a steady pace over the last 2-3 months through > change in diet. > > Current estimate is bodyfat of about 31% (which is high for a male), whith a > lean body mass of about 72Kg. Been loosing average of 2.1 Lb/week with a > rough estimate of 60-70% being fat loss (average BIA readings). A BMR > calculator off the net suggests a BMR of 2021, and about 2600 with activity. > I have no idea if this corrolates with the weight loss so far. Are you from Nfld ?? The rough estimate for BMR is a cal per pound...if you are 230 lbs then roughly 2300 cals is your BMR. Add activity to that...assuming you are not bed ridden then add anywhere from 1000 to 3000 for activity...the more activity you average the more you add. > Been loosing weight at quite a steady pace over the last 2-3 months > through change in diet. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > i.e is it adventageous to increase calories ingested (and extra 300) > - in return for an extra 70gr protein? My personal experience is that it's really hard to get the grams of protein I want *and* stay at or below my BMR when cutting. I think supplementing with protein shakes is a great way to go. Protein shakes, lots of veggies and fruit, turkey and / or tuna. Works for me. You might try starting a free profile on fitday.com. You can then enter your food and fitday will give you the nutritional breakdown. You can also enter your activities and it will estimate your BMR. I think it tends to estimate BMR higher than it should, so I set my activity level at sedentary, then add activities like working out on top of that. You also need to be careful you don't eat too much under your BMR or you'll lose LBM in addition to your fat. 500 to 1,000 kcal per day deficit is ideal. How do you know how much of a deficit you're running you ask? 3,500 cal = 1 lb of fat. It's the same for everybody. So, if you were under your BMR by 500 kcal per day, you'd lose 1 lb in a week. Under 1,000 per day, 2 lb per week. Any faster loss and you'll be losing LBM. Slow is good for weight loss.  Signature-Larry >So, if you were under your BMR by >500 kcal per day, you'd lose 1 lb in a week. Under 1,000 per day, 2 lb per >week. Any faster loss and you'll be losing LBM. You lose LBM regardless of what your deficit is. The bigger the deficit the more LBM you will lose. There is nothing magical about losing more than two pounds a week. Paul >> So, if you were under your BMR by >> 500 kcal per day, you'd lose 1 lb in a week. Under 1,000 per day, 2 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Paul I could've worded that better. Yes, you'll lose some LBM in any weight loss. However, it is my understanding that the percentage of LBM vs. fat lost is less if you lose weight slowly. Signature-Larry There are studys that show that dieters who participate in resistance training along with cardio while in a calore deficit to lose body fat will lose less LBM along with the fat. You'll probably always lose some, but the resistance training can help minimize it. >>>So, if you were under your BMR by >>>500 kcal per day, you'd lose 1 lb in a week. Under 1,000 per day, 2 [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > loss. However, it is my understanding that the percentage of LBM vs. fat > lost is less if you lose weight slowly. > My personal experience is that it's really hard to get the grams of > protein I want *and* stay at or below my BMR when cutting. I think [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > tends to estimate BMR higher than it should, so I set my activity level at > sedentary, then add activities like working out on top of that. Created a profile on fitday as suggested, and started eating tuna (in brine to increase protein) Enter all food for the last 3 days, shows the following (activity at sedentary) Fat: 55 498 30% Sat: 20 177 11% Poly: 9 83 5% Mono: 22 196 12% Carbs: 199 866 51% Fiber: 12 0 0% Protein: 78 312 19% Alcohol: 0 0 0% How balanced is this overall? Total calories is an average of 1676 and fitday is showing a BMR of 2176 (plus activity etc to be 2668). Protein is still a little low though. Assume 1g/lb of lean body mass, this would equate to about 150grams a day - so current intake (which is higher than normal due to tuna etc) is still about half of what it should be. > Fat: 55 498 30% > Sat: 20 177 11% [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > current intake (which is higher than normal due to tuna etc) > is still about half of what it should be. This is when you can see that supplementing with a whey protein powder would be a good thing. You want to increase your daily protein, but dont want the added fat because you are already at 30% (which is a bit high). Recommended would be lowering that to 20% OR lessen your saturated fat while increasing your good fats. Also noted your carbs at 51% is a bit high with hardly any fiber(?) Increasing fiber is an important key to bodyfat loss. Like what are you eating for carbs? Eating more vegetables over processed carbs would be beneficial to your goals. <<joni>> > This is when you can see that supplementing with a whey protein powder > would be a good thing. You want to increase your daily protein, but > dont want the added fat because you are already at 30% (which is a bit > high). Recommended would be lowering that to 20% OR lessen your > saturated fat while increasing your good fats. Agreed, although to be fair the last three days are not actually typical and most(all) of the fat has come from duck twice, steak and lamb! Hopefully the next week or so will produce "more average" results which I will repost. Also noted your carbs at 51% is a bit high with hardly any fiber(?) Fibre is a problem. Very little of what I am eating contains fibre. Increasing fiber is an important key to bodyfat loss. Like what are you eating for carbs? What can I eat/adjust my diet to increase fibre without adding calories/carbs etc. Howevr once again the carbs over the last three days are again not typical as most (i.e at least 1/3 of carbs is from Beer) again the amount will average over the next week. >> My personal experience is that it's really hard to get the grams of >> protein I want *and* stay at or below my BMR when cutting. I think [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > is higher than normal due to tuna etc) is still about half of what it > should be. If you work out, add what you do as an activity. This will obviously increase your BMR, but will give you a more accurate picture as you use the reports. If you want to see what I'm eating, you can view my fitday profile here: http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=MacSmasher I was in a car wreck last Friday, so training and diet are wacked this week. But you can click the arrow at the top and look back through the days. Your fats are too high. I get most of my fat from Olive oil, eggs and peanut butter. I created a custom food called "est. of cal eaten" for things like going out to dinner or similar. When I use this, I just try to come close on the calories. If you stay with fiday, you will become aware of things you are eating that are high in calories. I used to eat a lot of sunflower seeds because they are good for you. However, there are 415 cal in a half a cup. That's just two handfuls. Yes, they may be good for you, but they are also high in calories. So you'll start evaluating what you're eating and begin selecting foods to replace the high calorie stuff. Peanut butter is also high in calories, but I love it. Also, I like to get 150g + of protein per day. Signature-Larry > Also, I like to get 150g + of protein per day. Why? >> Also, I like to get 150g + of protein per day. > > Why? Because, if you're bulking, protein gives your muscles what they need to grow. And if you're cutting, it minimizes LBM loss. General consensus here is you should be getting between .8g to 1.5g of protein per lb of body weight. Google this group and there are tons of threads dealing with this. Signature-Larry >General consensus here >is you should be getting between .8g to 1.5g of protein per lb of body >weight. There is absolutely no need to get more than .8g of protein per lb of body weight. The current scientific knowledge suggests that unless you are taking anabolic steroids that you don't need more than .8g of protein per lb of *lean* body weight (LBW). Most folks who are interested in hypertrophy probably will do just fine anywhere from .7-.8 per pound of LBW. Paul >> General consensus here >> is you should be getting between .8g to 1.5g of protein per lb of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Paul Which is why I shoot for 150g of protein. From what I've read, .8 is enough. But the "general consensus" here is .8 to 1.5g. That's why I said "general consensus". Did you miss the general consensus part? I didn't specify LBW, however, but rather body weight. I'm not sure which is correct. Your LBM uses aproximately 90% of the calories that you consume, but that still leaves 10% that the rest of the body requires. So shouldn't body weight be used in determining the amount of protein to eat? You're one of only two people I've noticed that recommend LBW rather than body weight. Signature-Larry >>> General consensus here >>> is you should be getting between .8g to 1.5g of protein per lb of [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >enough. But the "general consensus" here is .8 to 1.5g. That's why I said >"general consensus". Did you miss the general consensus part? No, I did not miss it. If that is the general consensus then it is not supported by the literature. >I didn't specify LBW, however, but rather body weight. > I'm not sure which >is correct. LBM is correct. > Your LBM uses aproximately 90% of the calories that you >consume, but that still leaves 10% that the rest of the body requires. Huh? What does that have to do with how much protein is needed for optimal hypertrophy? > So >shouldn't body weight be used in determining the amount of protein to eat? The amount of protein to eat is determined by a number of factors including one's goals. If one wants to gain muscle mass then you would look for objective information to support whatever amount of protein you think is necessary. Currently the scientific literature suggests that .8g per pound of LBM is the MAXIMUM amount needed for hypertrophy. IOW, eating more than that is unlikely to give you better gains, unless you are juicing. >You're one of only two people I've noticed that recommend LBW rather than >body weight. Maybe you need to talk to more people. Paul >>>> General consensus here >>>> is you should be getting between .8g to 1.5g of protein per lb of [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > Huh? What does that have to do with how much protein is needed for > optimal hypertrophy? Because a portion of what you eat goes to other parts of your body besides LBM. Was that too complicated for you? >> So >> shouldn't body weight be used in determining the amount of protein [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > hypertrophy. IOW, eating more than that is unlikely to give you better > gains, unless you are juicing. The key word is "unlikely". But people here, Lyle included, have stated why not consume more if there is a chance that it may benefit hypertrophy? It doesn't hurt anything, and there is a possibility that it may benefit. Hence...the range I stated earlier. Are you always this anal? >> You're one of only two people I've noticed that recommend LBW rather >> than body weight. > > Maybe you need to talk to more people. Well, that could be true. I work, train, eat and screw. Other than that, I don't get out much. > Paul Signature-Larry |
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