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Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / February 2005Is this Lactose Intolerance??
Dear all: I am wondering if I have suddenly become lactose intolerant. It is something which has become bothersome for me in the last 2 years. Anyways, I can stand most milk products. I can drink warm milk fine, can eat yougurt, and cheeses. But what affects me the most is Ice cream and cold milk. I drink those two things, and I have bloating, and diarrhea. Does this mean I'm lactose intolerant? Would appreciate any responses, -Anostica Means you're dairy intolerant and the sugar helps kill off the digestive process. Lactose intolerance was made up by the dairy industry to localize a substance so they could cure it. problem. > Dear all: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Would appreciate any responses, > -Anostica >Means you're dairy intolerant No, it means that the person is lactose intolerant, not dairy intolerant (as mentioned in the original mail, yoghurt and cheese are OK). The lactose is removed by the bacteria during fermentation of cheese and yoghurt. Hence no problems with these products. >and the sugar helps kill off the digestive >process. ??? The sugar stimulates the fermentation in the intestine, that is why you get th eproblems... >Lactose intolerance was made up by the dairy industry to localize a >substance so they could cure it. Lactose intolerance is well known as a biochemical change in th elactase production in the small intestine. Has nothing to do with the industry... Ralf www.food-info.net General http://www.food-info.net/english/topics/to.php?c=all-lact on lactose intolerance >> Dear all: >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> Would appreciate any responses, >> -Anostica More information on food intolerance, food allergy etc : http://www.food-info.net/english/topics/to.php?c=all-intro Ralf >>Means you're dairy intolerant > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >>> Would appreciate any responses, >>> -Anostica >??? The sugar stimulates the fermentation in the intestine, that is >why you get th eproblems... the sugars are quite quite active as osmolyes. Not being broken down,they withdraw water from cells into intestines reversing the water absorption. Later, in colon, bacteria will find these sugars intact and break them down and utilize it for their own reproduction, making gas, like CO2 and methane from that. Water plus gas gives an quite impressive compulsion effect while defecating :-) And the gas which may start production of already in intestines when bacteria is there, can be very painful. Incidence in Finnish people is quite high, and also other non-domesticated people where people historically didn¨'t live on unfermented milk. Tribes in Africa living on unfermented milk don't have problems with lactose intolerance, since they share that gene modification that made drinking milk possible after infancy possible, while other tribes only using soured milk has high incidencies of it. By the way, many people trained to drink unfermented milk from childhood don't develope the intolerance until something happens that stops drinking it on daily basis, like stomach infections giving diarrhoea or being on holidays on places where you cannot buy unfermented milk. After such period, intolerance may be revealed. There is also socalled secondary intolerances to be found also in lactose tolerant people. When having diarrhoea, the lactase producing cells may be damaged and keeping on drinking milk may then maintain that cell killing. Quitting for a week or two or even more of drinking anything that may contain lactose may cure that inhibition and you may then tolerate milk again. But never restart by saying ahhhh and pouring down a liter or two of milk. Start very careful, with a teaspoon of milk daily for the first week or so, hten increase slowly until you are able to drink liters of milk again. If you start to feel stomach pain, go back to step one, keep off a week or two, then a teaspoon or so daily and double the dose everyother week. In the end, your body ignore the problems. Very interesting theory but what is the point of terrorizing your body? > >??? The sugar stimulates the fermentation in the intestine, that is > >why you get th eproblems... [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > teaspoon or so daily and double the dose everyother week. In the end, > your body ignore the problems. I agree with Alf on this one. I suspect I experienced temporary lactose intolerance. I had all the symptoms and the lactase supplements really helped. Now, I can drink milk by the glass full and not be bothered. > Very interesting theory but what is the point of terrorizing your body? > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > teaspoon or so daily and double the dose everyother week. In the end, > > your body ignore the problems. >Very interesting theory but what is the point of terrorizing your body? Parents may be so interested to feed the kids milk with the mentioned effects. I understand you have never had that pain of having lactose intolerance and being forced by parents to drink milk. I myself didn't have that, but after a row of nettle fevers after drinking homogenized and pasteurized milk instead of lukewarm milk directly from cow (which I had been drinking since child, but was banned completely when I was 12 because a local tuberculosis outbreak), I got the permit to stop drinking it, and no more nettle fever outbreak. Today, more than 40 year later I can drink a little of homogenized milk, but now I don't like the taste of it, so Im restricting it to youghurt and rømme (a kind of soured cream). My three kids were all removed from bovine dairy quite young. It isn't necessary or healthy. > >Very interesting theory but what is the point of terrorizing your body? > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > homogenized milk, but now I don't like the taste of it, so Im > restricting it to youghurt and r?mme (a kind of soured cream). >>??? The sugar stimulates the fermentation in the intestine, that >>is [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > end, > your body ignore the problems. My mother in the UK (age 91) has used milk all her life, but in the last year or so has complained of bloating and gas. Gradually I came to realize that this seemed to be largely milk related, and she dropped it from her (hourly :-)) cup of tea. The problem seems to have abated over a few weeks. While in the UK, I was unable to find a source of lactase enzyme, which is readily available OTC here in the US. Our brand 'Lactaid' is now on its way to her for a trial. Have you found a lactase supplement useful, Alf.? Info about a UK or European brand may be helpful. Thanks for giving us the benefit of your perspective. Very helpful! Regards MikeV >While in the UK, I was unable to find a source of lactase enzyme, >which is readily available OTC here in the US. Our brand 'Lactaid' >is now on its way to her for a trial. >Have you found a lactase supplement useful, Alf.? >Info about a UK or European brand may be helpful. Since I am not so much keen on drinking milk, and use almost only soured milk, I haven't had so much problem about it. But I know my cousins has been drinking soured milk when feeling bloated and they say it helps. I think I have seen lactaid in pharmaceuticals (apotek). I think it is without any prescriptions. There are also other preparats, by name is not what I have searched for. 202 02-12-05 13:55 Alf Christophersen <alf.christophersen@basalmed.uio.no> posted: Al> Since I am not so much keen on drinking milk, and use almost only Al> soured milk, I haven't had so much problem about it. No human should be keen on drinking cow's milk of any kind since the drinking of cow's milk has been linked to ear infections and strep throats. Plus the heavy, thick casein protein within cow's milk is hard for humans to properly digest. Young children drinking cow's milk may have a tendency to develop type 1 diabetes. ... End of message 12 Feb 05 13:59 ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR] > the drinking of cow's milk has been linked to ear infections and > strep throats. Haha. I first became able to drink for the first time for about 40 years when hospital had poured intravenously antibiotics for a week and removed my chronic strep throat and sinusitis infection with haemophilic strep A (meat eater variant) So now I enjoy youghurt (in small quantums because of the sugars) for the first time in my entire life. When my strep infection and candida reigned my body, trying to drink anything of milk made me belch H2S and alike :-( Terrible. 204 02-09-05 21:00 "Piezo Guru" <gbusey@honmail.com> posted: pg> Lactose intolerance was made up by the dairy industry to localize a pg> substance so they could cure it. Ralf Hartemink <ralf.hartemink@wur.nl> replied: Ra> Lactose intolerance is well known as a biochemical change in th Ra> elactase production in the small intestine. Has nothing to do with Ra> the industry... Question: Could lactose intolerance on the part of so many humans be Mother Nature's "hint" to the human race that cow's (or goat's) milk should not be consumed? Once infants are weanned from their human mother's milk, Mother Nature may not want humans to drink milk from animal sources. As usual, humans do not "listen" to Mother Nature. ... End of message 09 Feb 05 21:16 ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR] > Question: Could lactose intolerance on the part of so many humans > be Mother Nature's "hint" to the human race that cow's (or goat's) > milk should not be consumed? Once infants are weanned from their > human mother's milk, Mother Nature may not want humans to drink > milk from animal sources. You are right when it comes to those who has not gotten the illness of being lactose tolerant:-) But, soured milk is drinkable for everyone, more or less, since the lactose that has escaped fermentation, most probably will be taken care of by bacterial flora in the intestines long time before the lactose will do any harm. Only a few "tribes" has the genetic modification of not turning of expression of lactase after weanling off the babies. The Kaukasian tribe is most probably the most prominent one. Finnish-Ugrarian on the other hand is mostly lactose intolerant. They was not a cow-herding tribe. Now we have separated, pasteurized, homogenized, filter, fortified, solids added, skimmed, lactose removed all natural milk! Somebody watched TV for too long and got real stupid. If you can't listen to your body you may as well suffer. > > Question: Could lactose intolerance on the part of so many humans > > be Mother Nature's "hint" to the human race that cow's (or goat's) [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Finnish-Ugrarian on the other hand is mostly lactose intolerant. They > was not a cow-herding tribe. :: Only a few "tribes" has the genetic modification of not turning of :: expression of lactase after weanling off the babies. The Kaukasian :: tribe is most probably the most prominent one. :: Finnish-Ugrarian on the other hand is mostly lactose intolerant. They :: was not a cow-herding tribe. That is not correct. Dairy consumption is very wide here in Finland and only 17 % of Finnish people are lactose intolerant. Finnish people follow the Nordic dietary pattern were a lot - actually too much - dairy products are consumed. Among Lappish people, who are also Fenno-Ugrian, about half are lactose intolerant. Still much higher prevalence of lactose intolerance is among Thai and Japanese people (85-90 %).  SignatureJuhana :: Alf Christophersen wrote: :::: Only a few "tribes" has the genetic modification of not turning of [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] :: higher prevalence of lactose intolerance is among Thai and Japanese :: people (85-90 %). Among Hungarians, the largest population group of Fenno-Ugrian people, the prevalence of lactose intolerance is 37 %. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=6 618492&dopt=Abstract SignatureJuhana >That is not correct. Dairy consumption is very wide here in Finland and >only 17 % of Finnish people are lactose intolerant. Finnish people [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >prevalence of lactose intolerance is among Thai and Japanese people >(85-90 %). How many Finnish people are 100% Fenno-Ugric? I would guess about the figures you sketches is lactose intolerant. Remember lactose tolerance is a dominating trait. :: On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 15:20:00 +0200, "Juhana Harju" :: <shantigiri@despammed.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] :: figures you sketches is lactose intolerant. Remember lactose :: tolerance is a dominating trait. Katri Peuhkuri, Heikki Vapaatalo, Riitta Korpela and Ulla Teuri. Lactose intolerance-a confusing clinical diagnosis. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 71, No. 2, 600-602, February 2000. "In Finland, 17% of the population has hypolactasia." http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/71/2/600 Genetically Finnish people are not very mixed. There are very little foreigners in Finland. In Finland there is a Swedish speaking minority which originates mainly from Sweden. Lactose intolerance prevalance among the Swedish speaking Finnish is 8 percent - lower than among Finnish speaking people. SignatureJuhana >Genetically Finnish people are not very mixed. There are very little >foreigners in Finland. In Finland there is a Swedish speaking minority >which originates mainly from Sweden. Lactose intolerance prevalance >among the Swedish speaking Finnish is 8 percent - lower than among >Finnish speaking people. Still higher than found in Norway. And we find it only in population with either saamic or finnish ancestry. In my area, Aust-agder it is less than 1%. (But that is by using the old method which didn't detect my nieces problem, while C13-method detected it clearly. Perhaps incidencies will raise if C13-method was used entirely? > I am wondering if I have suddenly become lactose intolerant. It is > something which has become bothersome for me in the last 2 years. > Anyways, I can stand most milk products. I can drink warm milk fine, > can eat yougurt, and cheeses. But what affects me the most is Ice cream > and cold milk. I drink those two things, and I have bloating, and > diarrhea. Does this mean I'm lactose intolerant? It sounds like you are. There is a very simple, cheap and reliable test for this you can make at any medical laboratory. (All you have to do is drink a solution of lactose and have your blood taken after some time). >> I am wondering if I have suddenly become lactose intolerant. It is >> something which has become bothersome for me in the last 2 years. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >(All you have to do is drink a solution of lactose and have your blood taken >after some time). You don't need to have your blood taken, makes no sense as lactose is normally not absorbed, but have your breath analysed for hydrogen. Hydrogen is pnly produced from non-digestible carbohydrates that enter the large intestine. In lactose intolerant people, lactose is non digestible. Hydrogen thus is an easy indicator. Ralf Hartemink www.food-info.net > You don't need to have your blood taken, makes no sense as lactose is > normally not absorbed, but have your breath analysed for hydrogen. It does make sense if you know that lacose is not a monosugar. The blood is not screened for lactose- it is screened for glucose. A glucose blood test is always readily available in any medical laboratory. > > You don't need to have your blood taken, makes no sense as lactose is > > normally not absorbed, but have your breath analysed for hydrogen. > > It does make sense if you know that lacose is not a monosugar. > The blood is not screened for lactose- it is screened for glucose. > A glucose blood test is always readily available in any medical laboratory. I don't know of anybody who does that. It is rare for breath analysis also as not too many people do that. What is more common is a stool reducing substance test. The differential is usually diarrhea. If somebody were to drink lactose they would know it right away. >It does make sense if you know that lacose is not a monosugar. >The blood is not screened for lactose- it is screened for glucose. >A glucose blood test is always readily available in any medical laboratory. It is screened also for galactose >It sounds like you are. >There is a very simple, cheap and reliable test for this you can make at any >medical laboratory. >(All you have to do is drink a solution of lactose and have your blood taken >after some time). there are better and much more sensitive methods today. Like ingestion C13 marked lactose and measure the CO2 exhaled. If it doesn't turn up, you are intolerant. (I have two nieces diagnosed that way, most possibly my brother and my sister-in-law has both the genes for the original lactase expression regulation. (and sometimes it seems like I have the same problem, but milk protein allergy was my prime problem in childhood, but today I may drink youghurt, but has to use only small quantities because that one is most often sweetened with sugar :-( Being diabetic I makes it only usable when having hypoglycemic episodes, so I try to have at least one available in my fridge in my tiny flat at work in Oslo. Fortunately they are much more storable than stated outside the package. Drinking 2 month old youghurt is no problem at all if stored cool :-) ) > there are better and much more sensitive methods today. Like ingestion > C13 marked lactose and measure the CO2 exhaled. > If it doesn't turn up, you are intolerant. I heard of that method as well, its more expensive than the blood screening though (because you need the C13 marked lactose and an apparatus to measure the C[13]O2). But I admit it's a whole lot more precise than blood screening. >I heard of that method as well, its more expensive than the blood screening >though (because you need the C13 marked lactose and an apparatus to measure >the C[13]O2). >But I admit it's a whole lot more precise than blood screening. I understand that in countries with low incidencies, it is not economically interesting to have this method available, but it is almost a must in area of high or medium prevalence, like Eastern South Norway with many descendants of the Finn immigration to Solør area (Finnskogene) who most probably was lactic acid intolerant all of them. Still I have not found my own or my sister-in-law's Finnish roots, but maybe some day I may. I guess in area with many immigrants from Finland and areas of Sweden and Norway where there came many Finnish immigrants in period 1500-1850, the prevalence of lactose intolerance may be high enough to make investments in such analysis instruments economically feasible, |
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