Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / February 2005
Diet / Cholesterol
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jaym1212 - 04 Feb 2005 02:36 GMT Even though I am quite thin (5'10 120 lb), my cholesterol level is 252 (TG 51, LDL 81, HDL 161, HB1AC 5.5). How can I lower it without drugs? My morning FBG varies from 72 to 83 but usually around 78. I exercise about 15 minutes, 4 times a week and below is my typical meal which I eat 4 times a day:
Various vegetables (steamed or cooked) 3 hard boiled eggs (whites only). 1 TBS of olive oil. 1/2 TBS (dry weight) of sprouted red winter wheat. 1/2 fruit (usually an apples)
Robert - 04 Feb 2005 03:27 GMT You need to recheck your numbers to make sure you didn't switch any of the LDL, TG, HDL. If you didn't then you do not need to worry about your cholesterol. You might look at other risk factor predictors such as homocysteine, CRP.
> Even though I am quite thin (5'10 120 lb), my cholesterol level is 252 > (TG 51, LDL 81, HDL 161, HB1AC 5.5). How can I lower it without drugs? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > 1/2 TBS (dry weight) of sprouted red winter wheat. > 1/2 fruit (usually an apples) xyzer@hotmail.com - 04 Feb 2005 05:01 GMT > Even though I am quite thin (5'10 120 lb), my cholesterol level is 252 > (TG 51, LDL 81, HDL 161, HB1AC 5.5). How can I lower it without drugs? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > 1/2 TBS (dry weight) of sprouted red winter wheat. > 1/2 fruit (usually an apples) Wow, if that HDL is accurate, that's the highest HDL I've ever seen recorded.
Rene - 04 Feb 2005 05:17 GMT > Even though I am quite thin (5'10 120 lb), my cholesterol level is 252 > (TG 51, LDL 81, HDL 161, HB1AC 5.5). How can I lower it without drugs? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > 1/2 TBS (dry weight) of sprouted red winter wheat. > 1/2 fruit (usually an apples) Your TC/HDL ratio is very low (just over 1.5). Your total cholesterol may not be a factor at all with such a low ratio (goal being <4.5). Mine is 2.5 and the doctor was amazed at how low it was. He would have flipped over yours. If your doctor thinks you need to lower your total cholesterol, I would find another doctor (IMO).
Are these numbers true?
Ren?
montygram - 04 Feb 2005 22:03 GMT Obviously, he likely mistyped the numbers in, but my advice to you is to read up on oxidized cholesterol, which is dangerous. If your cholesterol is not oxdized, the evidence suggests that cholesterol in the 200-250 range is fine, perhaps optimal. I got mine up from 131 to 209, but made sure I stayed away from unsaturated fats and sources of oxidized cholesterol, like eggs cooked while exposed to air. Good luck.
jaym1212 - 05 Feb 2005 00:38 GMT I am copying the numbers from the lab results itself. Previous Results (less veges and fruits, more protiens and fats, including yolks, but no milk products) Cholesterol: 278 Trig: 51 HDL: 71 LDL: 197 HB1AC: 5.5
More Recent Results (more veges and fruits, eggs but no yolks) Cholesterol: 252 Trig: 51 HDL: 81 LDL: 161 HB1AC: 5.4
I have some Xanthelasma on my eye lids. Xanthelasma are lesions caused by elevated plasma lipid levels. I think this occurred duing the time my diet included milk products such as whole milk, full-fat yogurt, ricotta cheese and butter. I no longer consume any of these and the lesions seem to be subsiding very slowly. I currently use Colavita Brand Extra Virigin Olive Oil available from my local grocery store. Do you recommend a better one?
montygram - 05 Feb 2005 02:07 GMT Okay, now you're talking. Sounds like you are even more suceptible to oxidized cholesterol than most people (see the study I copied and pasted below). You need to be really careful. Full fat dairy should be fine, just stay away from homogenized stuff and also products with carrageenan in them, but try to buy organic. Iron is a real problem in terms of oxidized cholesterol, so "red meat" is especially bad, and if you were my patient, I would tell you to avoid unsaturated fats completely. Go with unrefined coconut oil. I personally like Coconut Oil Supreme, which I get over the internet, but there are other brands that should be just as good, and you can do a google search to find the cheapest, if that's a concern. Only boil eggs. Do not use foods that have a lot of cholesterol in high heat cooking. If you use butter, which isn't bad, use it as is - do not heat it. You need to worry about the foods you eat, how you cook them, and the iron content (copper is also a potential problem, so keep copper consumption at reasonable levels).
J Atheroscler Thromb. 2004;11(3):167-72. Related Articles,Links
Enhanced susceptibility of LDL to oxidative modification in a CTX patient:- role of chenodeoxycholic acid in xanthoma formation.
Kinoshita M, Kawamura M, Fujita M, Hirota D, Suda T, Taki M, Kusano J, Takao K, Takenaka H, Kubota S, Teramoto T.
Department of Internal Medicine, Teikyo University School of Medicine, Tokyo, Japan. makkino@med.teikyo-u.ac.jp
Cerebrotendinous xanthomatosis (CTX) is a rare familial sterol storage disease, causing multiple xanthomas in tendons and the brain. The underlying biochemical defect is a lack of the hepatic mitochondrial cholesterol 27-hydroxylase involved in the normal biosynthesis of bile acid, resulting in reduced biosynthesis of chenodeoxycholic acid (CDCA). It has been reported that administration of CDCA to CTX patients improves neurological disorders and xanthomas of the Achilles tendon. The present study investigated the effect of CDCA on the mechanism of cholesterol accumulation in macrophages, the major cells in xanthoma. The LDL from the patients in this study was significantly more susceptible to oxidative modification than normal LDL, and supplement therapy with CDCA resulted in an improvement in the susceptibility to oxidative modification. In the incubation of CDCA with plasma, 13% of the CDCA added to serum was recovered in the LDL fraction. In addition, supplementation with CDCA enhanced cholesteryl ester transfer protein (CETP) activity and reduced high-density-lipoprotein cholesterol levels in the plasma. This evidence suggests that the multiple xanthomas observed in CTX may be induced by increased oxidized LDL and the low activity of CETP, both of which are caused by a lack of CDCA.
jaym1212 - 05 Feb 2005 18:58 GMT > Sounds like you are even more suceptible to oxidized cholesterol > than most people (see the study I copied and pasted below)... Thanks for the advice and study. Danon's Plain Yogurt ingredient just say "Cultured Grade A Milk". So does this mean it isn't homogenized? In addition to avoiding unsaturated fats, oxidized cholesterol, carrageenan, iron, and copper are the some antioxidants that especially protect LDLs?
montygram - 05 Feb 2005 19:53 GMT The latest studies indicate that the best approach is to eat a variety of antioxdiant rich foods. Berries (try to get organic), white tea, dark chocolate, various herbs and spices, broccoli florets (cooked moderately - light boil is best), a tablespoon or two of red wine with each meal, etc.
montygram - 05 Feb 2005 19:55 GMT If the yogurt doesn't say low fat, no fat, or something like that, it should be okay, but to be honest, I'll only eat organic dairy. Now if I couldn't get it, it would be a tough decision to eat or not to eat it.
mattlb@angelfire.com - 07 Feb 2005 17:56 GMT >> Sounds like you are even more suceptible to oxidized cholesterol >> than most people (see the study I copied and pasted below)...
>Thanks for the advice and study. Be aware though that the study is of people who have a rare genetic disorder that cause them to have abnormal cholesterol handling independent of their diet. In fact, they actually absorb far less fat/cholesterol from the diet than normal people.
> Danon's Plain Yogurt ingredient just >say "Cultured Grade A Milk". So does this mean it isn't homogenized? The starting milk might be, but after being fermented to yoghurt it's no longer homogenized.
>In addition to avoiding unsaturated fats, oxidized cholesterol, >carrageenan, iron, and copper are the some antioxidants that especially >protect LDLs? Fat soluble vitamins are the major protectors of lipoproteins, particularly vitamin E. If taking a supplement go for one that has "mixed tocopherols" as the different types of vitamin E are treated differently by the body and have different free radical fighting profiles.
MattLB
jaym1212 - 08 Feb 2005 23:19 GMT > Fat soluble vitamins are the major protectors of lipoproteins, > particularly vitamin E. If taking a supplement go for one that has > "mixed tocopherols" ... Thanks.
>> Danon's Plain Yogurt ingredient just say "Cultured Grade A Milk". >> So does this mean it isn't homogenized? > > The starting milk might be, but after being fermented to yoghurt it's > no longer homogenized. I email Danon and they responded: Yogurt production involves simple ingredients but a complex process. We maintain the strictest quality standards and use state of the art equipment to produce products in a scientific purified environment.
Process: 1) Skimmed milk is generally used. 2) Non-fat milk solids are added to increase the protein content. 3) Milk is homogenized and pasteurized. This step takes place before the cultures are added since heat treatment deactivates the cultures. 4) Live active cultures are added. 5) Fruit or flavors are added as appropriate. 6) The yogurt is incubated for several hours. During this time, the yogurt cultures reproduce creating lactic acid, which changes the liquid milk into the solid custard-like yogurt. 7) The yogurt is cooled and then is ready for delivery across the nation.
Alf Christophersen - 10 Feb 2005 00:59 GMT >Thanks for the advice and study. Danon's Plain Yogurt ingredient just >say "Cultured Grade A Milk". So does this mean it isn't homogenized? In >addition to avoiding unsaturated fats, oxidized cholesterol, >carrageenan, iron, and copper are the some antioxidants that especially >protect LDLs? Adequate copper intake is part of one of the most important antioxidant systems as ingredient in the Cu-Mn superoxide dismutase system. Decreased Cu intake may even kill you. So please be careful about any decrease of Cu intake !!
jaym1212 - 10 Feb 2005 03:53 GMT > Adequate copper intake is part of one of the most important > antioxidant systems as ingredient in the Cu-Mn superoxide dismutase > system. Decreased Cu intake may even kill you. So please be careful > about any decrease of Cu intake !! I take a multi-vitamin which says it provides 20% of RDA in the form of copper sebacate. I not aware of what else in my diet (mostly veges) would provide a significant amount of additional copper.
Alf Christophersen - 10 Feb 2005 16:34 GMT >I take a multi-vitamin which says it provides 20% of RDA in the form of >copper sebacate. I not aware of what else in my diet (mostly veges) >would provide a significant amount of additional copper. Veggies :-) But possibly not copperdeficient veggies.
Alf Christophersen - 10 Feb 2005 00:55 GMT >I have some Xanthelasma on my eye lids. Xanthelasma are lesions caused >by elevated plasma lipid levels. I think this occurred duing the time >my diet included milk products such as whole milk, full-fat yogurt, Have you had some severe tooth infections or other severe infections. I got such ones on my left side of face after having a very nasty tooth root infection. My cholesterol is ok and at that time around 4.0(normal range 4.2-4.8)
jaym1212 - 10 Feb 2005 04:10 GMT > Have you had some severe tooth infections or other severe infections. > I got such ones on my left side of face after having a very nasty > tooth root infection. My cholesterol is ok and at that time around > 4.0(normal range 4.2-4.8) I am fairly sure it wasn't due to any severe infection as the lesions on my eye lids developed slowly over several months. Incidently, on a prior occasion, I had fasted two days prior to the test and my cholesterol level was 450 (TG 92, HDL 79, LDL 350)! Is this a typical response to fastings?
Alf Christophersen - 10 Feb 2005 16:36 GMT >I am fairly sure it wasn't due to any severe infection as the lesions >on my eye lids developed slowly over several months. Incidently, on a >prior occasion, I had fasted two days prior to the test and my >cholesterol level was 450 (TG 92, HDL 79, LDL 350)! Is this a typical >response to fastings? Ok, that sounds like cholesterol problems. Mine turned up after just about 24 hours after infection was more or less over.During inflammation, the skin was seriously extended.
Roger Rabbit - 22 Feb 2005 05:45 GMT >Obviously, he likely mistyped the numbers in, but my advice to you is >to read up on oxidized cholesterol, which is dangerous. If your [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >oxidized cholesterol, like eggs cooked while exposed to air. >Good luck. How can I find out if my cholesterol is oxidized? I'm guessing that this is not information that normally, if ever, appears in a lab report.
rr
montygram - 22 Feb 2005 18:56 GMT Some labs can do this, I think. Do a search for Great Smokies Diagnostic Labs, or something like that. If you eat lots of antioxidant rich foods with foods rich in cholesteroI (assuming that you are not cooking them incorrectly and that they are fresh), that will provide a lot of protection (berries, 70% or higher cocoa mass chocolate, et.). I get an organic yogurt that says "cream line," which means it's not homogenized.
Robert - 22 Feb 2005 19:24 GMT > >Obviously, he likely mistyped the numbers in, but my advice to you is > >to read up on oxidized cholesterol, which is dangerous. If your [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > rr You are listening to research hype. There is no clinical utility in doing such testing right now. If it were so evident from research that such a test would be helpful then labs would be out there performing it and making tons of money on it. You treat it with statins and in those with high lipids that is already done. The trend is to expand the treatment group to include those with normal lipids levels with conventional panels based on clinical syndromes. If you want to provide a test to expand that group even more then the drug company would be more than happy to put you on statins.
Acta Cardiol. 2004 Oct;59(5):479-84. Related Articles, Links
Oxidized LDL and coronary heart disease.
Holvoet P.
Centre for Experimental Surgery and Anaesthesiology, University of Leuven, Belgium. paul.holvoet@med.kuleuven.ac.be
During inflammation, several cell types synthesize and secrete phospholipase A2 that catalyses lipid oxidation in LDL. Myeloperoxidase, a haeme protein secreted by activated phagocytes, oxidizes L-tyrosine to a tyrosyl radical that is a physiological catalyst for the initiation of lipid oxidation in LDL. Lipid oxidation results in the generation of aldehydes that substitute lysine residues in the apolipoprotein B-100 moiety. Lipid together with protein oxidation in LDL results in the generation of oxidized LDL. We, among others, have demonstrated an association between coronary heart disease (CHD) and increased plasma levels of oxidized LDL. Recently, we have demonstrated a higher prevalence of elevated oxidized LDL in persons with high-calculated CHD risk prior to events. The odds of having elevated oxidized LDL for persons with high-calculated CHD risk prior to events were even higher than for persons with diagnosed CHD. A likely explanation is that once CHD has been diagnosed the patients are more treated with a statin that appears to decrease oxidized LDL even beyond its cholesterol-lowering effect.We have identified several metabolic syndrome components (high triglycerides, low HDL-cholesterol, glucose intolerance and diabetes) that independently of LDL-cholesterol, predicted high levels of oxidized LDL. Finally, elevated oxidized LDL predicted myocardial infarction in the Health ABC cohort consisting of well-functioning elderly people, even after adjusting for age, gender, race, smoking, and the metabolic syndrome.
Publication Types: Review Review, Tutorial
PMID: 15529550 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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