fish oil -> bleeding, why?

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Pete - 02 Dec 2004 15:04 GMT

Why is it that taking fish oil increases bleed time? What is the
mechanism? I'd guess it has something to do with the EPA replacing the
arachidonic acid in the phospholipids in epithelial cell membranes.

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MattLB - 02 Dec 2004 17:52 GMT

> Why is it that taking fish oil increases bleed time? What is the
> mechanism? I'd guess it has something to do with the EPA replacing the
> arachidonic acid in the phospholipids in epithelial cell membranes.

It's more to do with platelets. If your diet is skewed towards higher
EPA then more will get incorporated into platelet membranes, at the
expense of arachidonic acid. Arachidonic acid release is the trigger for
platelet activation, causing them to clump together and plug holes in
blood vessels as well as providing a focus for fibrous clot formation.
If there's less AA, platelets will be less sticky and less likely to
form clots (which is why reducing AA is good if you've got heart
disease).

MattLB

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Pete - 03 Dec 2004 00:32 GMT

> > Why is it that taking fish oil increases bleed time? What is the
> > mechanism? I'd guess it has something to do with the EPA replacing the
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> MattLB

That's interesting, Matt. Thanks. The reason I asked is this: when taking
fish oil, I'll get some bleeding from the gums from tooth brushing. But
if I also take the phospholipid inositol, then the bleeding is much less.
If I take inositol and lecithin (with it's many phospholipids), then
there is no bleeding.

So, does taking phospholipids negate the effect of taking fish oil? Or
rather, do they negate each other? Is it a waste to take them both? Or
are there also other beneficial biochemical changes that result
internally from taking fish oil which are not negated by phospholipids?

Would taking lecithin then reduce hemorraghic strokes, but increase
ischemic strokes?

Also, gum bleeding does not get reduced or eliminated from consuming
large amounts of canola oil and/or red meat. Since canola has lots of
linoleic acid (which results in AA) and red meat has AA, then why don't
they have the same effect as the phospholipids?

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MattLB - 03 Dec 2004 13:43 GMT

> > > Why is it that taking fish oil increases bleed time? What is the
> > > mechanism? I'd guess it has something to do with the EPA replacing the
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> If I take inositol and lecithin (with it's many phospholipids), then
> there is no bleeding.

What sort of time scale are you talking about here for seeing the
change in gums after altering the diet?

> So, does taking phospholipids negate the effect of taking fish oil? Or
> rather, do they negate each other? Is it a waste to take them both? Or
> are there also other beneficial biochemical changes that result
> internally from taking fish oil which are not negated by phospholipids?

It's a bit of trick question since phospholipids can contain a variety
of fatty acids including the ones in fish oil. Same with lecithin,
although it usually comes from soya so will be shorter chain PUFA than
in fish oil.

> Would taking lecithin then reduce hemorraghic strokes, but increase
> ischemic strokes?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> linoleic acid (which results in AA) and red meat has AA, then why don't
> they have the same effect as the phospholipids?

It may be less to do with bleeding/clotting ability and more to do
with gum strength. It's possible that the choline or inositol in the
phospholipids is what you're short of. It's not directly related, but
supplementation with coenzyme Q10 apparently has dramatic effects on
gum health.

MattLB

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