Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
General
GeneralCardiologyVisionDentistryPharmacyLaboratoryNutritionAlternative
Diseases and Disorders
AIDSAlzheimer'sArthritisAsthmaCancerBreast CancerDiabetesEpilepsyGlaucomaHepatitisHerpesLupusProstate BPHProstate CancerProstatitisSinusitisTinnitus

Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / December 2004

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Essential Fatty Acid Metabolism

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
MikeV - 26 Nov 2004 20:43 GMT
Another in depth review for anyone interested. (44 pages; 300+ refs)

http://www.ub.rug.nl/eldoc/dis/medicine/e.n.smit/c1.pdf

MikeV
montygram - 27 Nov 2004 06:35 GMT
The more interesting issue is who in the world decided that these
extremely dangerous substances are "essential?"  Fortunately, I
learned to stay away from dietary polyunsaturated fatty acids a few
years back.  To all those who haven't, good luck - you're going to
need it.

> Another in depth review for anyone interested. (44 pages; 300+ refs)
>
> http://www.ub.rug.nl/eldoc/dis/medicine/e.n.smit/c1.pdf
>
> MikeV
William_Noyes - 27 Nov 2004 10:45 GMT
Certain polyunsaturated fatty acids are essential but
one doesn't need large amounts. One does well to
avoid fats in general unless it is with the seed, grain,
nut, or meat it comes in. Both human infants and
lab animals can be deficient in linoleic acid which results
in dermatitis, poor growth, reproductive failure, and fatty
livers. Deficiency in linolenic acid results in adverse
changes in nervous system function. Omega 3 deficiency
can result in learning deficits and impaired vision.

One textbook says the 'optimal intake of omega-3 fatty
acids is 1.1 to 1.5 grams per day with a ratio of 4 to 10
times more of the omega 6 fatty acids'. If you suspect that
the ratio is better closer to 4 to 1 the amount are rather small.
Trans fatty acids impair the desaturation and elongation of
linoleic and linolenic acid into other critical fatty acids.
So eat some walnuts, filbert, sunflower seeds, pumpkin
seeds, almonds, flax seed, and then some oily deep sea fish,
legumes, green leafy vegetables and you'll be fine.
Cooking with oils, lard, bacon fat, hydrogenated grease
is not a wise idea. Often one heats the oils and fat to high
heat which oxidizes the fats, results in some trans fats, and forms
some toxic chemicals in the food. Oil are often stripped
of a large share of the related antioxidants found in unrefined
fatty foods.

I suspect I do better when I avoid too regular consumption of
beef and pork. I doubt baked goods with unsaturated fatty acids
are that good. Fish at least several time a week is good.
Freshly shelled nuts are much better than raw nuts which are
much better than roasted nuts.

Skip the griddle cakes and bacon in the morning.
Minimize the mayo on the lunch time sandwich.
Don't deep fry dinner.

Boil and poach when you can.
Raw is good.
I suspect the occasional use of saturated fats in  some
cooking is moderately less dangerous the cooking with
high polyun oils provided the former isn't a daily habit.

> The more interesting issue is who in the world decided that these
> extremely dangerous substances are "essential?"  Fortunately, I
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> >
> > MikeV
MikeV - 27 Nov 2004 14:03 GMT
Thanks for the tip.
You should tell the creator, so that she/he will not make any more
brains with DHA, nor put it into the milk of young mothers feeding
their infants all over the world.
What do your brain cells use?
Have you found a reliable substitute for membranes? If so it is your
duty to pass it on to us all.!
After many years ingesting these HAZMATS my doctor insists that I am
still fit and healthy and refuses to treat me for it. Please tell
him too. He and "Big Pharma" may need a whole new approach.

Hurry....Hurry.......wife ..and...I ...late
....sixties.....not....much.....time......left.
(Exits quickly stage left).

MikeV

Sorry, People, my aging sense of humor has been critically damaged
by gorging on black walnuts.
Can't you see the headlines?
"Omega 3 police raid Wal-Mart seeking Christmas Nuts."
"Osama shipping Hazardous Flax-seed Materials (HFM) to US.
Undetected in shipping Container."
"Nuts banned on Nutrition news-group."
Maybe Ashcroft should come back. :-(

MikeV
(Just like old times, Nick :-))

> The more interesting issue is who in the world decided that these
> extremely dangerous substances are "essential?"  Fortunately, I
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>>
>> MikeV
Larry Hoover - 27 Nov 2004 18:24 GMT
> The more interesting issue is who in the world decided that these
> extremely dangerous substances are "essential?"  Fortunately, I
> learned to stay away from dietary polyunsaturated fatty acids a few
> years back.  To all those who haven't, good luck - you're going to
> need it.

Why don't you tell us all about Mead's acid again? First, explain how
5,8,11-eicosatrienoic (20:3?9), also known as Mead's acid, is a MUFA (as you have
repetitively asserted), and how it is that this marker of essential fatty acid
deficiency is beneficial for health?

Lar
Wolfbrother - 28 Nov 2004 00:26 GMT
> > The more interesting issue is who in the world decided that these
> > extremely dangerous substances are "essential?"  Fortunately, I
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Lar

Well lets see.  He has eliminated "essential fatty acids" from his
diet and has for several years yet he is not only not dead (which you
would assume would be the case since they are supposedly essential)
but he is in better health than he was before.  It seems like you are
the one who has some explaining to do.  Then again you do not address
realities that contradict your assumptions do you.
Larry Hoover - 28 Nov 2004 18:07 GMT
>> > The more interesting issue is who in the world decided that these
>> > extremely dangerous substances are "essential?"  Fortunately, I
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> would assume would be the case since they are supposedly essential)
> but he is in better health than he was before.

So he says. In any case, anecdote (individual experience) cannot be used for
extrapolative purposes.

> It seems like you are
> the one who has some explaining to do.

I'll let the National Acadamies of Science, Food and Nutrition Board of the
Institute of Medicine, speak for me. They've done an excellent job of summarizing
the available evidence.
http://books.nap.edu/books/0309085373/html/609.html#pagetop

Note, after reading this chapter (Chapter 11), be sure and read chapter 8.

> Then again you do not address
> realities that contradict your assumptions do you.

I think that you are taking issue with me for exactly what you claim I do not do. I
am asking Nick to address the aspects of contradiction, explicitly.

Lar
MikeV - 27 Nov 2004 19:33 GMT
>  who in the world decided that these extremely dangerous
> substances are "essential?"  >

>> Another in depth review for anyone interested. (44 pages; 300+
>> refs)
>>
>> http://www.ub.rug.nl/eldoc/dis/medicine/e.n.smit/c1.pdf
>>
>> MikeV
Look it up. There are plenty of references out there.
People like: AA Spector, and LS Harbige, I imagine:

     1: Lipids. 1999;34 Suppl:S1-3. Related Articles, Links

Essentiality of fatty acids.

Spector AA.

Department of Biochemistry, College of Medicine, University of Iowa,
Iowa City 52242, USA. arthur-spector@uiowa.edu

All fatty acids have important functions, but the term "essential"
is applied only to those polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) that are
necessary for good health and cannot be completely synthesized in
the body. The need for arachidonic acid, which is utilized for
eicosanoid synthesis and is a constituent of membrane phospholipids
involved in signal transduction, is the main reason why the n-6
class of PUFA are essential. Physiological data indicate that n-3
PUFA also are essential. Although eicosapentaenoic acid also is a
substrate for eicosanoid synthesis, docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) is
more likely to be the essential n-3 constituent because it is
necessary for optimal visual acuity and neural development. DHA is
present in large amounts in the ethanolamine and serine
phospholipids, suggesting that its function involves membrane
structure. Because the metabolism of n-6 PUFA is geared primarily to
produce arachidonic acid, only small amounts of 22-carbon n-6 PUFA
are ordinarily formed. Thus, the essentiality of n-3 PUFA may be due
to their ability to supply enough 22-carbon PUFA for optimal
membrane function rather than to a unique biochemical property of
DHA.

Publication Types:
 a.. Review
 b.. Review, Tutorial

MeSH Terms:
 a.. Animals
 b.. Dietary Fats
 c.. Fatty Acids, Essential/pharmacology
 d.. Fatty Acids, Essential/physiology*
 e.. Fatty Acids, Unsaturated/pharmacology
 f.. Fatty Acids, Unsaturated/physiology*
 g.. Human
 h.. Signal Transduction
 i.. Support, U.S. Gov't, P.H.S.

Substances:
 a.. Dietary Fats
 b.. Fatty Acids, Essential
 c.. Fatty Acids, Unsaturated

Grant Support:
 a.. CA 66081/CA/NCI
 b.. HL 49264/HL/NHLBI

PMID: 10419080 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

     Lipids. 2003 Apr;38(4):323-41. Related Articles, Links

Fatty acids, the immune response, and autoimmunity: a question of
n-6 essentiality and the balance between n-6 and n-3.

Harbige LS.

School of Chemical and Life Sciences, University of Greenwich at
Medway, Chatham Maritime, Kent ME4 4TB, United Kingdom.
L.Harbige@gre.ac.uk

The essentiality of n-6 polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) is
described in relation to a thymus/thymocyte accretion of arachidonic
acid (20:4n-6, AA) in early development, and the high requirement of
lymphoid and other cells of the immune system for AA and linoleic
acid (1 8:2n-6, LA) for membrane phospholipids. Low n-6 PUFA intakes
enhance whereas high intakes decrease certain immune functions.
Evidence from in vitro and in vivo studies for a role of AA
metabolites in immune cell development and functions shows that they
can limit or regulate cellular immune reactions and can induce
deviation toward a T helper (Th)2-like immune response. In contrast
to the effects of the oxidative metabolites of AA, the longer-chain
n-6 PUFA produced by gamma-linolenic acid (18:3n-6, GLA) feeding
decreases the Th2 cytokine and immunoglobulin (Ig)G1 antibody
response. The n-6 PUFA, GLA, dihomo-gamma-linolenic acid (20:3n-6,
DHLA) and AA, and certain oxidative metabolites of AA can also
induce T-regulatory cell activity, e.g., transforming growth factor
(TGF)-beta-producing T cells; GLA feeding studies also demonstrate
reduced proinflammatory interleukin (IL)-1 and tumor necrosis factor
(TNF)-alpha production. Low intakes of long-chain n-3 fatty acids
(fish oils) enhance certain immune functions, whereas high intakes
are inhibitory on a wide range of functions, e.g., antigen
presentation, adhesion molecule expression, Th1 and Th2 responses,
proinflammatory cytokine and eicosanoid production, and they induce
lymphocyte apoptosis. Vitamin E has a demonstrable critical role in
long-chain n-3 PUFA interactions with immune functions, often
reversing the effects of fish oil. The effect of dietary fatty acids
on animal autoimmune disease models depends on both the autoimmune
model and the amount and type of fatty acids fed. Diets low in fat,
essential fatty acid deficient (EFAD), or high in long-chain n-3
PUFA from fish oils increase survival and reduce disease severity in
spontaneous autoantibody-mediated disease, whereas high-fat LA-rich
diets increase disease severity. In experimentally induced T
cell-mediated autoimmune disease, EFAD diets or diets supplemented
with long-chain n-3 PUFA augment disease, whereas n-6 PUFA prevent
or reduce the severity. In contrast, in both T cell- and
antibody-mediated autoimmune disease, the desaturated/elongated
metabolites of LA are protective. PUFA of both the n-6 and n-3
families are clinically useful in human autoimmune-inflammatory
disorders, but the precise mechanisms by which these fatty acids
exert their clinical effects are not well understood. Finally, the
view that all n-6 PUFA are proinflammatory requires revision, in
part, and their essential regulatory and developmental role in the
immune system warrants appreciation.

 a..

PMID: 12848277 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

MikeV
montygram - 27 Nov 2004 23:53 GMT
Go ahead and cite any evidence you want.  I'll take a look at it.  One
guy put up a web site with over 300 studies supposedly "proving" that
PUFAs are essential.  All he actually did demonstrate is that omega 3s
interfere with omega 6s.  But it is true that pregnant women may need
small amounts, which would explain the strange dietary urges.  I'm
talking about adults who don't want to get pregnant (or like men,
can't).  Aside from researching the evidence for the past 4 years, I
have my family history.  Nobody eats omega 3s.  My great grandfather
lived to be over 100, and my great grandmother was 97.  My grandfather
is in his early 90s now, and my grandmother in her mid 80s.  They eat
no omega 3s at all.  They only eat at home, and I've gone through
everything they've eaten for their entire lives.  They are in very
good health.  If PUFAs are essential, they appear to be selectively
so.  Only a few people I know eat even small amounts of omega 3s.  The
whole thing goes back to a flawed experiment, Burr & Burr, 1930.  Just
another example of the pathetic biomedical "profession."  How's the
war on cancer going?  It's past the thirty years war, and now going
for the hundred year's war.  I have no doubts it will pass that
milestone by plenty.  These people are really trustworthy - in my
dreams, perhaps.

> >  who in the world decided that these extremely dangerous
> > substances are "essential?"  >
[quoted text clipped - 123 lines]
>
> MikeV
MikeV - 28 Nov 2004 00:34 GMT
> Go ahead and cite any evidence you want.  I'll take a look at it.
> One
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>> Look it up. There are plenty of references out there.
>> People like: AA Spector, and LS Harbige, I imagine:

>> PMID: 10419080 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
>>
>> PMID: 12848277 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
>>
>> MikeV

Thats OK Nick old friend.
I remember how the story goes:
.
" I've made up my mind, you idiots  .   .   .so don't none of you go
trying to confuse me with evidence."

In pacem requiescat.

MikeV
montygram - 29 Nov 2004 04:06 GMT
Such studies as the one you cited below does not address the central
issue:  can you have better health if you avoid PUFAs in the diet and
allow your body to make the Mead acid PUFA out of the MUFAs that are
already there (and which can be made intially from SFAs).  No
experiment has been done to demonstrate this, but plenty of studies
show that Mead acid has beneficial effects, whereas arachidonic acid
is like a slow poison, which really begins to rip your body up once
your body loses the antioxidant protection of young adulthood.  Don't
believe me or the thousands of studies?  Who cares - go ahead and deal
with the consequences.

1: Lipids. 1999;34 Suppl:S1-3. Related Articles, Links

Essentiality of fatty acids.

Spector AA.

Department of Biochemistry, College of Medicine, University of Iowa,
Iowa City 52242, USA. arthur-spector@uiowa.edu

All fatty acids have important functions, but the term "essential"
is applied only to those polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) that are
necessary for good health and cannot be completely synthesized in
the body. The need for arachidonic acid, which is utilized for
eicosanoid synthesis and is a constituent of membrane phospholipids
involved in signal transduction, is the main reason why the n-6
class of PUFA are essential. Physiological data indicate that n-3
PUFA also are essential. Although eicosapentaenoic acid also is a
substrate for eicosanoid synthesis, docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) is
more likely to be the essential n-3 constituent because it is
necessary for optimal visual acuity and neural development. DHA is
present in large amounts in the ethanolamine and serine
phospholipids, suggesting that its function involves membrane
structure. Because the metabolism of n-6 PUFA is geared primarily to
produce arachidonic acid, only small amounts of 22-carbon n-6 PUFA
are ordinarily formed. Thus, the essentiality of n-3 PUFA may be due
to their ability to supply enough 22-carbon PUFA for optimal
membrane function rather than to a unique biochemical property of
DHA.

> > Go ahead and cite any evidence you want.  I'll take a look at it.
> > One
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
>
> MikeV
MikeV - 29 Nov 2004 05:49 GMT
> Such studies as the one you cited below does not address the
> central
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> deal
> with the consequences.

Obviously you do! You care about being right, and being some sort of
guru.
I care about the best route to the truth. At the moment, the
preponderance of the evidence does not appear to support you.

Having made it to my age in close to perfect health, perhaps you can
advise me when I should expect the dreadful consequences to be
visited upon me? 80?  90? 105? (Naturally, I would like to get my
affairs in order).

Speaking of central issues, is it your position that your brain (and
most other peoples) is not largely formed of DHA? That there is not
an optimal level of DHA in the phospholipids of your muscle cell
membranes to minimize diabetes risk? That there is not a level of
DHA at which fetuses and babies thrive optimally?
I have seen and cited evidence for all of those. None from you in
rebuttal.

Can you cite evidence that I absorb excessive quantities of w6?

Somehow you always seem to avoid the issue of how humans survived
pre-farming diets which included much higher than present day levels
of 'poisonous' ALA, DHA, EPA. etc. if you and Gilbert are correct.
If you want to educate us, the ignorant masses, explain that first.

There are not too many of us who argue against the propositions that
modern diets contain excessive vegetable oils, or that excessive
amounts, especially of w6 will bias the immune system towards
inflammation, or that they can become oxidized, and produce free
radicals. These are established.
Nick, the world does not only come in black and white. The real one
has finely graded shades of gray, and a whole lot of other hues
besides.
Nature has dealt with PUFAs for 20 million years. How come you
can't?

MikeV
Mirek F?dler - 28 Nov 2004 09:16 GMT
> is in his early 90s now, and my grandmother in her mid 80s.  They eat
> no omega 3s at all.

How do you know? They do not eat any meat, diary?

It is virtually impossible to "eat no omega 3 at all".

Mirek
Larry Hoover - 28 Nov 2004 18:08 GMT
> Go ahead and cite any evidence you want.  I'll take a look at it.  One
> guy put up a web site with over 300 studies supposedly "proving" that
> PUFAs are essential.

http://books.nap.edu/books/0309085373/html/609.html#pagetop
Larry Hoover - 29 Nov 2004 16:29 GMT
> Aside from researching the evidence for the past 4 years, I
> have my family history.

And what about the rest of us, who have studied the science of nutrition for much
longer than that? It is only months ago that you were calling Mead acid a MUFA.

BTW, it can take years to fully express Essential Fatty Acid Deficiency Syndrome. It
all depends on how replete your body was with the PUFAs in the beginning, diet (of
course), along with genetic regulatory factors which have not yet been fully
elucidated.

>  Just another example of the pathetic biomedical "profession."

If you lost the condescending tone, you might find that people have less difficulty
trying to sort out your message.

You propose that high Mead acid is a sign of health. It is formed from delta-5 and
delta-6 desaturase activity on the substrate oleic acid, with elongation.

Given the substrate affinity sequence, that omega-3 has more affinity than does
omega-6 than does omega-9 for the delta-5 and delta-6 desturase enzymes, how is it
that evolutionary pressure has created a situation which is the absolute converse of
what you propose? Given the accessibility of omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids in
normal human foodstuffs, how is it that your grossly manipulated diet is essential
for health? Without the knowledge provided by the "pathetic biomedical profession",
it would not even be possible for you to propose an argument for your thesis.

You have frequently said that we should read your mentor's book. Did you read the
passages of the online books which I referenced for you?

Lar
MikeV - 29 Nov 2004 19:24 GMT
>> Aside from researching the evidence for the past 4 years, I
>> have my family history.
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>
> Lar
Larry:
Thanks a bundle for the book references. I have just skimmed them,
and they provide an excellent baseline for an amateur (me) to start
from. Fortunately they confirm much of what I have struggled to pick
up from studies and other sources.
When you get time I would like to ask that you attempt to summarize
Nick's (Monty's) philosophy, and show what (if any parts of it are
soundly based, and where he starts going wrong. I need help! On
second thoughts, I doubt it could be worth your time.
Thanks again
MikeV
montygram - 28 Nov 2004 00:55 GMT
I should have mentioned that if you go to www.pubmed.com and look up
arachidonic, lipid peroxidation, oxidative stress, etc., you'll see
how dangerous PUFAs can be.  I've haven't seen any evidence that
demonstrates that allowing your body to make it's own PUFA, the Mead
acid, will harm an adult human.  On the contrary, Mead acid, a very
stable fatty acid relative to dietary PUFAs, has been shown to
attenuate conditions caused by excess arachidonic acid.  Recently, AD
researchers have drained the CSF out of AD patients, and found
isoprostanes in very high amounts.  Then you read studies such as the
following, and you realize that the high dietary PUFA consumption of
the past 30 years or so is likely the root cause of so many "chronic
diseases."

Journal of Neurochemistry
Volume 72 Issue 2 Page 734  - February 1999
doi:10.1046/j.1471-4159.1999.0720734.x   
   
F4 - Isoprostanes as Specific Marker of Docosahexaenoic Acid
Peroxidation in Alzheimer's Disease
Jaffar Nourooz-Zadeh, Edwin H. C. Liu*, B. Yhlen, Erik E. Änggåard &
Barry Halliwell*

Abstract : F2-isoprostanes are prostaglandin-like compounds derived
from free radical-catalysed peroxidation of arachidonic acid.
Peroxidation of eicosapentaenoic acid produces F3-isoprostanes,
whereas peroxidation of docosahexaenoic acid would give
F4-isoprostanes. This study demonstrates the presence of esterified
F4-isoprostanes in human brain and shows that levels are elevated in
certain brain cortex regions in Alzheimer's disease. Our data with
Alzheimer's disease suggest that analysis of F4-isoprostanes will
provide new opportunities to study lipid peroxidation in the
neurodegenerative diseases.

> >  who in the world decided that these extremely dangerous
> > substances are "essential?"  >
[quoted text clipped - 123 lines]
>
> MikeV
montygram - 01 Dec 2004 05:36 GMT
Regarding the study posted:

1: Lipids. 1999;34 Suppl:S1-3. Related Articles, Links

Essentiality of fatty acids.

Spector AA.

Department of Biochemistry, College of Medicine, University of Iowa,
Iowa City 52242, USA. arthur-spector@uiowa.edu

All fatty acids have important functions, but the term "essential"
is applied only to those polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) that are
necessary for good health and cannot be completely synthesized in
the body. The need for arachidonic acid, which is utilized for
eicosanoid synthesis and is a constituent of membrane phospholipids
involved in signal transduction, is the main reason why the n-6
class of PUFA are essential. Physiological data indicate that n-3
PUFA also are essential. Although eicosapentaenoic acid also is a
substrate for eicosanoid synthesis, docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) is
more likely to be the essential n-3 constituent because it is
necessary for optimal visual acuity and neural development. DHA is
present in large amounts in the ethanolamine and serine
phospholipids, suggesting that its function involves membrane
structure. Because the metabolism of n-6 PUFA is geared primarily to
produce arachidonic acid, only small amounts of 22-carbon n-6 PUFA
are ordinarily formed. Thus, the essentiality of n-3 PUFA may be due
to their ability to supply enough 22-carbon PUFA for optimal
membrane function rather than to a unique biochemical property of
DHA.

This study is worth addressing in more detail.  First of all, where
has it ever been demonstrated that an adult human’s “cell
membranes” need 22 carbon PUFAs?  A simple experiment could be
done on dogs (since they metabolize fatty acids the way humans do).
Just get some stray dogs and feed them a diet that contains too little
PUFAs to supply all these supposed lipid bilayer membranes.  If I were
to do the experiment, the dogs would get fresh coconut oil (only 2%
PUFAs), as well as organic eggs, nutritional yeast, along with other
foods that have no more than trace amounts of PUFAs.  According to
theory, the dogs should stiffen up (due to too much saturated fatty
acids), fall apart literatly (because their cells lack structural
integrity), or something else really horrible.  The only thing that
will happen is that the dogs will live long and healthy lives.
Studies have been done on pigs and chickens fed coconut, for example.

It is likely that arachidonic acid is not metabolized to omega 6 22
carbon PUFAs because it’s so biochemically unstable.  The study
is important in that the investigator admits that there is not likely
a unique biochemical need for DHA, and since Gilbert Ling has
demolished the “cell membrane/lipid bilayer” garbage, we
have here another piece of evidence AGAINST the notion of
“essentiality.”  Some idiot nutritionist apparently
decided to include this “essentiality” notion in a
textbook, after the decades that passed with his
“profession” ignoring this idea (first advanced by Burr &
Burr, 1930, working with vitamin B deficient rats), and the PUFA oil
industry eventually figured out that they could use the claim to sell
their toxic products to an ignorant public.  Why does the idea that a
human body metabolizing its own PUFA, the Mead acid, produce so much
cognitive dissonance to the Larry Hoovers of this world?  That’s
a psychological issue, not a physiological or biochemical one, so
I’ll leave that out of this post.  But show me some evidence
that allowing your body to produce its own PUFA is such a terrible
idea – if it were, there should be plenty of studies that
demonstrate this clearly.  What about the Pellagra episodes in
history?  Why hasn’t there been a similar episode involving
so-called essential fatty acids?  If it’s so easy to obtain
these fatty acids, why even bother to talk about them?  It would be
like saying protein is essential.  How many people in the USA need to
worry about not getting enough protein?  I was a vegan for 14 years,
and ate poor quality protein, yet I played sports and didn’t
have any major health problems, until the malabsorption started, which
was apparently due to low stomach acid, which could have been related
to the vegan diet, but that is questionable, considering it took 14
years to occur.  The point is that if you are going to make an
extraordinary claim, namely that people need PUFAs in the diet in more
than trace amounts, there better be extraordinary evidence
(considering we can make our own PUFA), not just a flawed rat study
from 1930.

The idea of omega 6s being needed for signal transduction has been
refuted by Gilbert Ling, but others have all done experiments
demonstrating that this is the job of protein (though biochemically
overactive fatty acids, like arachidonic, can cause major problems).
For example:
Membrane, action, and oscillatory potentials in simulated protocells.
Przybylski AT; Stratten WP; Syren RM; Fox, S.W. Naturwissenschaften,
1982 Dec, 69:12, 561-3.
"Electrical membrane potentials, oscillations, and action potentials
are observed in proteinoid microspheres impaled with (3 M KC1)
microelectrodes. Although effects are of greater magnitude when the
vesicles contain glycerol and natural or synthetic lecithin, the
results in the purely synthetic thermal protein structures are
substantial, attaining 20 mV amplitude in some cases. The results add
the property of electrical potential to the other known properties of
proteinoid microspheres, in their role as models for protocells."

As for my relatives and others I know; if you are saying that they get
enough omega 3s from the chicken and beef they eat, then, again, why
should anyone worry about being “deficient?”  In
actuality, unless you eat beef raw, and from grass fed cows, I want to
see the evidence that there is any measurable amount of omega 3 PUFAs
from the beef they buy in the local supermarket.  Also, after cooking
the beef or chicken as most people do, many of the PUFAs will be
oxidized and then they can’t be metabolized to longer chain
PUFAs (though since there’s plenty of omega 6s, a few of them
won’t get oxidized – the ones in the middle of the steak
especially).  You’ll have a better chance finding the proverbial
needle in the haystack then finding more than a few molecules of
non-oxidized omega 3 PUFAs in the beef or chicken products my friends
and relatives are consuming.  Why is common sense so uncommon with
regard to PUFAs?
If you do just a little research, you’ll see how dangerous
arachidonic acid.  One study concluded that it’s unlikely
arachidonic acid is safe when it’s in your body, regardless of
what it’s role is at any particular time or place.  Here’s
a good quotation:
“The interior of a cell is filled with a gelatinous material
that houses the nucleus, DNA, and protein ‘transcription
factors.’  These proteins are nothing more than tiny molecular
messengers that can move to the nucleus to stimulate our DNA to
replicate RNA and make important proteins for cell function.  Here we
want to concentrate on two important transcription factors, nuclear
factor kappa B (NF-kB) and activator protein 1 (AP-1).  These
transcription factors are not active in the cell unless the redox
level of the cell changes and free radicals are about to overwhelm the
cell’s defense mechanism, a state called oxidative stress.  When
cells undergo oxidative stress, the transcription factors are
activated.  NF-kB migrates to the nucleus and attaches to the DNA,
resulting in cellular production of proinflammatory cytokines –
chemicals that are the so-called ‘serial killers’ of the
cellular world.”
Source: Page 35.  “The Perricone Prescription.” Nicholas
Perricone.  2002.

Arachidonic acid is known to promote NF-kB.  Here are some things
worth reading:

Dynamic Chiropractic
October 6, 2003, Volume 21, Issue 21
   

What Is NFkB? It Could Kill You
by David Seaman, DC, MS, DABCN, DACBN, FACC

The Saga of Inflammation

Earlier this year, I completed a six-part series on how diet drives
inflammation, pain, subluxation and a host of diseases, including
heart disease, cancer and Alzheimer's.* Nearly all of the degenerative
diseases are driven by chronic subclinical inflammation; essentially,
nearly every condition that walks into a doctor's office is driven, at
least in part, by inflammation.

The old view of inflammation is that it represents the healing
response. This is true, to a point; however, once inflammation,
becomes chronic, it becomes a disease. You will not find a statement
as clear as this in typical physiology books, or even in pathology
books. However, in pathology texts, we are led to believe that chronic
inflammation plays a role in promoting the disease process. In journal
articles, we are given more precise statements. Consider the
following:

"Recent studies on diseases which involve insulin insensitivity (e.g.
obesity, type 2 diabetes and atherosclerosis) also show increased
cytokine production and markers of inflammation. Evidence at present
favours chronic inflammation as a trigger for chronic insulin
insensitivity, rather than the reverse situation."1

You will not find this type of statement in any physiology or
pathology book anytime soon. Why? I don't know. Nonetheless, we can
see that inflammation is definitively viewed as a driver of chronic
disease.

The Reduction of Inflammation

In recent years, a massive volume of literature has supported the view
that we need to halt chronic inflammation and its induction. Aspirin,
NSAIDs and corticosteroids have been the main medical weapons against
inflammation. These days, COX2 inhibitors are also being used.

Pharmacology texts tell us that aspirin, NSAIDs, and COX2 inhibitors
act to reduce inflammation by blocking the cyclooxygenase enzyme that
converts arachidonic prostaglandin E-2 (PGE2). In other words, these
drugs inhibit inflammation by blocking PGE2. Corticosteroids work
higher up the chain, inhibiting phospholipase A2, which inhibits
arachidonic acid release from phospholipids in the cell membrane.
These mechanisms have been known about for a long time. For example,
in 1971, John Vane discovered that aspirin inhibits the COX enzyme.

In more recent years, the study of inflammation has gone deeper into
the cell, to the point that cell-signaling molecules have been
identified which stimulate genes that induce the expression of the COX
enzyme. As it turns out, aspirin, NSAIDs, and corticosteroids can
inhibit certain cell signaling molecules, such as nuclear factor kappa
binding (NFkB) - which reduces inflammation.

On the natural end of the treatment spectrum, various botanicals have
anti-inflammatory effects that work in the same manner as these drugs,
except their actions are not as pronounced. Ginger and curcumin are
the most well-known substances that possess significant
anti-inflammatory actions.

Nuclear Factor Kappa B

NFkB is the "big cheese" cell-signaling molecule for inflammation; its
activation induces the expression of COX-2, which leads to tissue
inflammation. "Intriguingly, the expression of the COX-2-encoding
gene, believed to be responsible for the massive production of
prostaglandins at inflammatory sites, is transcriptionally regulated
by NFkB."2

NFkB resides in the cytoplasm of the cell and is bound to its
inhibitor. Injurious and inflammatory stimuli, such as free radicals,
release NFkB from the inhibitor. NFkB moves into the nucleus and
activates the genes responsible for expressing COX-2. Research has
demonstrated that aspirin, NSAIDs, and corticosteroids can inhibit the
activation of NFkB, which is why people derive relief from these
drugs. Problems arise due to their nasty side-effects, which means
that alternative ways need to be pursued to reduce NFkB activity.

As mentioned earlier, free radicals are examples of substances that
activate NFkB. Cytokines such as interleukin-1 (IL-1) can also
stimulate NFkB.2 Not surprisingly, antioxidants can reduce the
activation of NFkB, including green tea polyphenols; resveratrol from
red wine; vitamins C and E; curcumin; and glutathione.2 Whenever you
see glutathione, you need to think of the substances that maintain
glutathione in its active state, which includes supplements such as
lipoic acid and coenzyme Q10.3

In all likelihood, the family of flavonoids and carotenoids found in
fruits and vegetables that have antioxidant functions is capable of
reducing free-radical activation of NFkB. So, our approach to keeping
NFkB at bay should be a fruit- and vegetable-based diet that includes
green tea, red wine, and antioxidant supplements.

Fatty acids (FAs) also need to be considered. The anti-inflammatory
omega-3 FAs reduceNFkB activity,4,5 which means we need to reduce our
grain, seed, and related oil intake. Omega-3 FAs also reduce IL-1,6
which is an activator of NFkB.2 Omega-3 fatty acids are found in green
vegetables, most fish, wild game, and grass-fed meat. (See
www.texasgrassfedbeef.com.) Supplementing with 1-2 grams of EPA/DHA
from fish oil is also a good idea.

We must also be cognizant of glycemic regulation in controlling NFkB.7
An assessment of Type 1 diabetic patients found that inefficient
glycemic control resulted in increases in NFkB activity in white cells
- which results in inflammation. This means that, as alluded to
earlier, inflammation causes diabetes,3 and the diabetic state
promotes inflammation.7 It was determined that HbA1c and NFkB were
correlated with each other, and also with hyperglycemia and lipid
peroxidation.7

Diseases Driven by NFkB

We want to reduce the inappropriate activation of NFkB because it can
drive so many seemingly unrelated diseases. We don't typically think
of asthma and neurodegenerative diseases as having similar etiologies;
however, NFkB plays a role in each disease. In fact, NFkB promotes
asthma; neurodegeneration; ischemia/reperfusion injury; hepatitis;
glomerulonephritis; inflammatory bowel disease; rheumatoid arthritis;
and probably most other diseases driven by inflammation,2 including
the subluxation complex.8,9 Consider that Faye's original model of the
subluxation complex included an inflammatory component.

On a more lethal note, I searched MEDLINE for articles related to
cancer and NFkB; 1,773 appeared. One paper stated that NFkB is
strongly linked to inflammatory and immune responses, regulation of
cell proliferation and apoptosis, suggesting its role in tumor
development and many other diseases, including atherosclerosis.10 I
suggest we adopt an anti-inflammatory diet and give ourselves a
nutritional adjustment.

References
Grimble RF. Inflammatory status and insulin resistance. Curr Opin Clin
Nutr Metab Care 2002;5:551-9.
D'Acquisto F, May MJ, Ghosh S. Inhibition of nuclear factor kappa B
(NF_B): an emerging theme in anti-inflammatory therapies. Molec Interv
2002;2:22-35.
Sen CK, Packer L. Thiol homeostasis and supplements in physical
exercise. Am J Clin Nutr 2000;72(2 Suppl):653S-69S.
Lo CJ, Chiu KC, Fu M, Lo R, Helton S. Fish oil decreases macrophage
tumor necrosis factor gene transcription by altering the NF kappa B
activity. J Surg Res 1999;82(2):216-21.
Novak TE, Babcock TA, Jho DH, Helton WS, Espat NJ.NF-kappa B
inhibition by omega -3 fatty acids modulates LPS-stimulated macrophage
TNF-alpha transcription. Am J Physiol Lung Cell Mol Physiol
2003;284(1):L84-9.
Simopoulos AP. Essential fatty acids in health and chronic disease. Am
J Clin Nutr 1999;70(3 Suppl):560S-569S.
Hofmann MA, Schiekofer S, Kanitz M, et al. Insufficient glycemic
control increases nuclear factor _B binding activity in peripheral
blood mononuclear cells isolated from patients with type 1 diabetes.
Diabetes Care 1998; 21:1310-16.
Seaman DR. Joint complex dysfunction, a novel term to replace
subluxation/subluxation complex: etiological and treatment
considerations. J Manipulative Physiol Ther 1997;20(9):634-44.
Seaman DR. The diet-induced proinflammatory state: a cause of chronic
pain and other degenerative diseases? J Manipulative Physiol Ther
2002;25 (3):168-79.
Ignatowicz E, Baer-Dubowska W. Resveratrol, a natural chemopreven-tive
agent against degenerative diseases. Pol J Pharmacol
2001;53(6):557-69.

David Seaman MS, DABCN, DACBN, FACC
Port Orange, Florida

Editor's note: Dr. Seaman's six-part series on diet and inflammation
is available online at www.chiroweb.com/archives/20/21/18.html.

Source: http://www.chiroweb.com/archives/21/21/19.html

As usual, this author never gave a second thought to the notion of the
essentiality of dietary PUFA, but a scientist is supposed to question
everything and ask for the evidence, which only a few scientists have
in the case of dietary PUFAs, unfortunately.

And here’s more, though you can find plenty more like this by
doing your own research:

Am J Physiol Cell Physiol. 2004 Oct;287(4):C1139-51.
Epub 2004 Jun 02.Related Articles,Links
 
Novel effect of NF-kappaB activation: carbonylation
and nitration injury to cytoskeleton and disruption of
monolayer barrier in intestinal epithelium.

Banan A, Zhang LJ, Shaikh M, Fields JZ, Farhadi A,
Keshavarzian A.

Rush University Medical Center, Department of Internal
Medicine, Section of Gastroenterology and Nutrition,
1725 W. Harrison, Suite 206, Chicago, IL 60612, USA.
ali_banan@rush.edu

Using monolayers of intestinal cells, we reported that
upregulation of inducible nitric oxide synthase (iNOS)
is required for oxidative injury and that activation
of NF-kappaB is key to cytoskeletal instability. In
the present study, we hypothesized that NF-kappaB
activation is crucial to oxidant-induced iNOS
upregulation and its injurious consequences:
cytoskeletal oxidation and nitration and monolayer
dysfunction. Wild-type (WT) cells were pretreated with
inhibitors of NF-kappaB, with or without exposure to
oxidant (H(2)O(2)). Other cells were transfected with
an IkappaBalpha mutant (an inhibitor of NF-kappaB).
Relative to WT cells exposed to vehicle, oxidant
exposure caused increases in IkappaBalpha instability,
NF-kappaB subunit activation, iNOS-related activity
(NO, oxidative stress, tubulin nitration), microtubule
disassembly and instability (increased monomeric and
decreased polymeric tubulin), and monolayer
disruption. Monolayers pretreated with NF-kappaB
inhibitors (MG-132, lactacystin) were protected
against oxidation, showing decreases in all measures
of the NF-kappaB --> iNOS --> NO pathway. Dominant
mutant stabilization of IkappaBalpha to inactivate
NF-kappaB suppressed all measures of the iNOS/NO
upregulation while protecting monolayers against
oxidant insult. In these mutants, we found prevention
of tubulin nitration and oxidation and enhancement of
cytoskeletal and monolayer stability. We concluded
that 1) NF-kappaB is required for oxidant-induced iNOS
upregulation and for the consequent nitration and
oxidation of cytoskeleton; 2) NF-kappaB activation
causes cytoskeletal injury following upregulation of
NO-driven processes; and 3) the molecular event
underlying the destabilizing effects of NF-kappaB
appears to be increases in carbonylation and
nitrotyrosination of the subunit components of
cytoskeleton. The ability to promote NO overproduction
and cytoskeletal nitration/oxidation is a novel
mechanism not previously attributed to NF-kappaB in
cells.

Free Radic Biol Med. 2003 Sep 15;35(6):636-47.       
 
Arachidonic acid activates a functional AP-1 and an inactive NF-kappaB
complex in human HepG2 hepatoma cells.

Becuwe P, Bianchi A, Didelot C, Barberi-Heyob M, Dauca M.

Laboratoire de Biologie Cellulaire du Developpement, EA 3446,
Universite Henri Poincare-Nancy I, Vandoeuvre-les-Nancy Cedex, France.
becuwe@scbiol.u-nancy.fr

Exogenous arachidonic acid (AA) has been shown to induce the
antioxidant manganese superoxide dismutase gene by reactive oxygen
species (ROS) derived from AA metabolism and the participation of the
p38 mitogen-activated protein kinase (MAPK) pathway in human HepG2
hepatoma cells. The goal of this study was to investigate the effect
of AA on the activation of the two redox-sensitive transcription
factors AP-1 and NF-kappaB in HepG2 cells. Using electrophoretic
mobility shift assays, DNA-binding activities of AP-1 and NF-kappaB
were markedly increased in AA-treated HepG2 cells. The c-Jun and c-Fos
proteins were identified as components of the AA-induced AP-1 complex
and their levels were increased. AA-activated NF-kappaB complex was
constituted as a p50 homodimer resulting in a nuclear translocation
for this protein only. Moreover, no degradation of IkappaBalpha was
observed. These results were contrasted to the
interleukin-1beta-activated p50/p65 complex used as a positive
control. Using 5,8,11,14-eicosatetraynoic acid and inhibitors of AA
metabolism, AP-1 and NF-kappaB activation required the
lipoxygenase/cytochrome P450 monooxygenase pathways. In addition,
antioxidants inhibited the AA-induced AP-1 and NF-kappaB activation,
suggesting a role of ROS released from the AA metabolism. In reporter
gene assays, AA induced the transcriptional activity of AP-1 but not
that of NF-kappaB. Further investigations showed that the AA-induced
transcriptional activity of AP-1 was regulated by protein kinase C and
p38 MAPK pathways. These results suggest that the functional AP-1
activated by AA and coupled to that of p38 MAPK pathway may play an
important role in response to ROS induced by AA metabolism in HepG2
cells without the involvement of the NF-kappaB pathway.

Prostaglandins Other Lipid Mediat. 2003 Jul;71(3-4):189-204.       

Platelet-type 12-lipoxygenase activates NF-kappaB in prostate cancer
cells.

Kandouz M, Nie D, Pidgeon GP, Krishnamoorthy S, Maddipati KR, Honn KV.

Department of Radiation Oncology, Wayne State University, 431
Chemistry Bldg., Detroit, MI 48202, USA.

Platelet-type arachidonate 12-lipoxygenase (12-LOX) is highly
expressed in many types of cancers and plays an important role in
cancer pathophysiology. Arachidonic acid metabolism by 12-LOX results
in the stable end product 12(S)-hydroxy eicosatetraenoic acid
(12(S)-HETE), which is a signaling molecule with effects on cell
proliferation, motility, invasiveness, angiogenesis, and inhibition of
apoptosis. The myriad biological activities manifested by 12(S)-HETE
appear to be mediated, at least in part, by the activation of
NF-kappaB. Overexpression of the 12-LOX in PC-3 prostate cancer cells
resulted in the constitutive activation of the transcription factor.
The enzymatic product of arachidonic acid metabolism, 12(S)-HETE,
mediates the activation of NF-kappaB by the 12-LOX. 12(S)-HETE
treatment of PC-3 cells induced the degradation of IkappaB by the S6
proteasomal pathway and the activated NF-kappaB translocated to the
nucleus causing kappaB-induced transcription. Specificity of the
NF-kappaB activation by 12(S)-HETE was established by the use of a
12-LOX-specific inhibitor and 13(S)-HODE, a known 12(S)-HETE
antagonist. Considering the known involvement of MAP kinase pathway in
NF-kappaB activation and that of 12(S)-HETE in MAP kinase pathway,
12-LOX present in prostate cancer tissues may contribute to the
constitutive activation of NF-kappaB in prostate cancer cells.

More of these kinds of studies are published each week, just go to
www.pubmed.com and see for yourself.

Finally, I’ve already acknowledged in a previous post that
saying Mead acid was a MUFA instead of saying it was derived from a
MUFA was a mistake.  Yes, even I make mistakes trying to write as much
as I can in the little time that I have, though I’m willing to
admit it, unlike, apparently, anyone else in this country.  Or you can
just listen to Mr. Hoover.  He’s always right, even though he
has little interest in citing evidence, and when he does, I absolutely
tear it apart, piece by piece.  He's got nothing, as they say, except
perhaps, a mountain of agressive ignorance.
MikeV - 01 Dec 2004 14:24 GMT
 Journal of the American College of Nutrition, Vol. 21, No. 6,
495-505 (2002)
Published by the American College of Nutrition

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

     REVIEW

Omega-3 Fatty Acids in Inflammation and Autoimmune Diseases
Artemis P. Simopoulos, MD, FACN
The Center for Genetics, Nutrition and Health, Washington, D.C

Address correspondence to: Artemis P. Simopoulos, M.D., FACN, The
Center for Genetics, Nutrition and Health, 2001 S Street, N.W.,
Suite 530, Washington, D.C., 20009. E-mail: cgnh@bellatlantic.net

     Conclusions
     TOP
     ABSTRACT
     Introduction
     Omega-6 and Omega-3 Fatty...
     Omega-3 Fatty Acids, Interleukin...
     Other Inflammatory Markers,...
     Fatty Acids, Cytokines, and...
     Rheumatoid Arthritis
     Inflammatory Bowel Disease
     Asthma
     Psoriasis
     Conclusions
     REFERENCES

The anti-inflammatory properties of 3 fatty acids, especially EPA,
are due to competition with arachidonic acid (AA) as a substrate for
cyclooxygenases and 5-lipoxygenase. The eicosanoids from the 6 and 3
fatty acids have opposing properties. The eicosanoids are considered
a link between PUFA, inflammation and immunity. In addition to their
effects on prostaglandins, thromboxanes and leukotrienes, 3 fatty
acids suppress the production on interleukin 1 (IL-1?) by
suppressing the IL-1? mRNA, as well as the expression of Cox2
(cytooxygenase) mRNA that is induced by IL-1?. Cox2 is overexpressed
in colon cancer cells. Both ALA, and EPA and DHA are involved in
immune function. The precise effect of ALA depends on the level of
linoleic acid (LA) and total PUFA content of the diet. A high dose
of ALA (about 15 g/day) will suppress human IL-1 and TNF (tumor
necrosis factor). It is unclear whether ALA itself exerts these
effects or whether they are the result of its conversion to EPA.
Excessive intake of 6 fatty acids characteristic of Western diets
produces an imbalance of 6 to 3 PUFAs which leads to an
overproduction of the proinflammatory prostaglandins of the 6 series
and cytokines. Supplements of LA rich vegetable oils increase IL-1
and TNF. Humans given 3-rich flax seed oil or fish oil supplements
have sharply reduced stimulated production of IL-1, IL-2 and TNF, as
well as suppressed mononuclear cell proliferation and expression of
IL-2 receptors. Thus, in humans, LA increases proinflammatory
cytokine secretion, whereas fish oil reduces proinflammatory
cytokine secretion.
*************************************
     1: Lipids. 2001 Nov;36(11):1183-93. Related Articles, Links

Influence of dietary supplementation with long-chain n-3 or n-6
polyunsaturated fatty acids on blood inflammatory cell populations
and functions and on plasma soluble adhesion molecules in healthy
adults.

Thies F, Miles EA, Nebe-von-Caron G, Powell JR, Hurst TL, Newsholme
EA, Calder PC.

Department of Biochemistry, University of Oxford, United Kingdom.

Greatly increasing the amounts of flaxseed oil [rich in
alpha-linolenic acid (ALNA)] or fish oil (FO); [rich in
eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA)] in the
diet can decrease inflammatory cell functions and so might impair
host defense. The objective of this study was to determine the
effect of dietary supplementation with moderate levels of ALNA,
gamma-linolenic acid (GLA), arachidonic acid (ARA), DHA, or FO on
inflammatory cell numbers and functions and on circulating levels of
soluble adhesion molecules. Healthy subjects aged 55 to 75 yr
consumed nine capsules per day for 12 wk. The capsules contained
placebo oil (an 80:20 mix of palm and sunflowerseed oils) or blends
of placebo oil with oils rich in ALNA, GLA, ARA, or DHA or FO.
Subjects in these groups consumed 2 g ALNA; approximately 700 mg
GLA, ARA, or DHA; or 1 g EPA plus DHA (720 mg EPA + 280 mg DHA)
daily from the capsules. Total fat intake from the capsules was 4 g
per day. None of the treatments affected inflammatory cell numbers
in the bloodstream; neutrophil and monocyte phagocytosis or
respiratory burst in response to E. coli; production of tumor
necrosis factor-alpha, interleukin-1beta, and interleukin-6 in
response to bacterial lipopolysaccharide; or plasma concentrations
of soluble intercellular adhesion molecule-1. In contrast, the ALNA
and FO treatments decreased the plasma concentrations of soluble
vascular cell adhesion molecule-1 (16 and 28% decrease,
respectively) and soluble E-selectin (23 and 17% decrease,
respectively). It is concluded that, in contrast to previous reports
using higher amounts of these fatty acids, a moderate increase in
consumption of long-chain n-6 or n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids
does not significantly affect inflammatory cell numbers or
neutrophil and monocyte responses in humans and so would not be
expected to cause immune impairment. Furthermore, we conclude that
moderate levels of ALNA and FO, which could be incorporated into the
diet, can decrease some markers of endothelial activation and that
this mechanism of action may contribute to the reported health
benefits of n-3 fatty acids.

Publication Types:
 a.. Clinical Trial
 b.. Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 11795850 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
****************************************

     1: Nutr Metab Cardiovasc Dis. 2004 Aug;14(4):180-5. Related
Articles, Links

Soluble adhesion molecules in healthy subjects: a dose-response
study using n-3 fatty acids.

Eschen O, Christensen JH, De Caterina R, Schmidt EB.

Department of Cardiology, Aalborg Hospital, Aalborg, Denmark.
d302015@inet.uni2.dk

BACKGROUND AND AIM: Long-chain n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids
(PUFA) may protect against atherosclerotic disease, and serum levels
of soluble cellular adhesion molecules (sCAMs) possibly reflect the
inflammatory process underlying atherosclerosis. We studied the
effect of n-3 PUFA dietary supplementation on the serum levels of
sP-selectin, soluble intercellular adhesion molecule-1 (sICAM-1) and
soluble vascular adhesion molecule-1 (sVCAM-1), and the correlation
between sCAMs and the fatty acid composition of granulocyte
membranes. METHODS AND RESULTS: Sixty healthy volunteers were
randomly assigned to receive a daily supplement of n-3 PUFA 6.6 g,
n-3 PUFA 2.0 g, or olive oil for 12 weeks in a double blind design.
A significant negative correlation was found between serum sICAM-1
levels and the DHA content of granulocyte membranes at entry. After
supplementation with 6.6 g of n-3 PUFA, there was a significant
decrease only in sP-selectin, which a gender subanalysis showed to
be more marked in men. Among the women, there was a significant
decrease in sICAM-1 in the PUFA 2.0 g group and a significant
increase in sVCAM-1 in the PUFA 6.6 g group. CONCLUSIONS: The
results indicate that high-dose supplementation with n-3 PUFA
decreases sP-selectin levels in healthy subjects, thus suggesting a
decrease in platelet reactivity or endothelial activation. However,
the effect of n-3 PUFA on sCAMs is complex and may depend on gender
and n-3 PUFA dose.

PMID: 15553594 [PubMed - in process]
MattLB - 01 Dec 2004 18:23 GMT
> Regarding the study posted:
>
> 1: Lipids. 1999;34 Suppl:S1-3. Related Articles, Links

> This study is worth addressing in more detail.  First of all, where
> has it ever been demonstrated that an adult human’s “cell
> membranes” need 22 carbon PUFAs?

Or indeed Mead's acid.

>  A simple experiment could be
> done on dogs (since they metabolize fatty acids the way humans do).
> Just get some stray dogs and feed them a diet that contains too little
> PUFAs to supply all these supposed lipid bilayer membranes.

If there aren't enough PUFAs others will be used for membranes.

>  If I were
> to do the experiment, the dogs would get fresh coconut oil (only 2%
> PUFAs), as well as organic eggs, nutritional yeast, along with other
> foods that have no more than trace amounts of PUFAs.  According to
> theory, the dogs should stiffen up (due to too much saturated fatty
> acids),

Membrane stiffness is not the same as whole body stiffness. Maybe you
think joints and tendons are made of fat?

> fall apart literatly (because their cells lack structural
> integrity),

Bizarre. Now you're suggested saturated fats have less structural role
than PUFAs, despite packing closer. Or did you mean fall apart like a
book?

> or something else really horrible.  The only thing that
> will happen is that the dogs will live long and healthy lives.
> Studies have been done on pigs and chickens fed coconut, for example.

So the experiment by Burr and Burr using rats is nonsense (your
words), because rats aren't humans, but ones with chickens are fine.
You do realise rats are closer to humans than chickens, right?

> It is likely that arachidonic acid is not metabolized to omega 6 22
> carbon PUFAs because it’s so biochemically unstable.

Define biochemically unstable, for once.

>  The study
> is important in that the investigator admits that there is not likely
> a unique biochemical need for DHA,

Biochemical is the key word there. DHA is more important as a
structural membrane component than a source of metabolites. EPA on the
other hand has biochemical activity, which is why levels affect mood.

> and since Gilbert Ling has
> demolished the “cell membrane/lipid bilayer” garbage, we
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> industry eventually figured out that they could use the claim to sell
> their toxic products to an ignorant public.

I guess you never bothered to read the reference that MikeV started
the thread with. That gives citations of human studies on the effects
of EFA deficiency. This golden fallacy you cling to just doesn't wash.
To save you the effort you never seem to put in anyway, here's a
quote:

"Thirty years later, Hansen et al. [140] were the first to describe
EFAD in
humans. They observed unsatisfactory growth rates and dryness of the
skin in many infants on low LA intakes. EFAD has been most extensively
described in subjects on fat-free total parenteral nutrition (TPN)
[141-147]. For example, O'Neill et al. [142] reported on 28 patients,
ranging from newborns to 66 years old, who received fat-free TPN. LA
levels fell rapidly, followed by AA. In most of the patients the
20:3ω9/20:4ω6 ratio (a biochemical marker for EFAD) had
increased after a few weeks above the 0.4 criterion [148], followed
approximately one week later by clinical signs of a scaly and thin
skin, and hair loss. In addition to these classical EFAD symptoms,
many other biological and behavioural changes have been documented
[149-151]"

Just in case you missed it they said that when the Mead
acid:Arachidonic acid ratio increased (more Mead acid) it led to
clinical signs of scaly thin skin and hair loss. Oh dear.

> Why does the idea that a
> human body metabolizing its own PUFA, the Mead acid, produce so much
> cognitive dissonance to the Larry Hoovers of this world?

It doesn't, it's the idea that it can do all the things the
metabolites of omega 6 and 3 can do that is the problem. Why has
evolution preserved all the enzymes that make the series 2/3
prostaglandins and series 4/5 leukotrienes (plus their receptors) if
there's no need for them - as you claim?

>  But show me some evidence
> that allowing your body to produce its own PUFA is such a terrible
> idea –

No-one's ever said that. As usual you're attacking assertions that
haven't been made.

> The idea of omega 6s being needed for signal transduction has been
> refuted by Gilbert Ling, but others have all done experiments
> demonstrating that this is the job of protein

Who's ever claimed AA was a signal transducer? It's the *result* of
signal transduction (i.e. a 2nd messenger).

>  If you do just a little research, you’ll see how dangerous
> arachidonic acid.  One study concluded that it’s unlikely
> arachidonic acid is safe when it’s in your body, regardless of
> what it’s role is at any particular time or place.  Here’s
> a good quotation:

You think it's good?

> “The interior of a cell is filled with a gelatinous material
> that houses the nucleus, DNA, and protein ‘transcription
> factors.’

The nucleus houses the DNA, not the gelatinous material (cytoplasm).

>  These proteins are nothing more than tiny molecular
> messengers that can move to the nucleus to stimulate

Or inhibit

> our DNA to
> replicate RNA

RNA isn't replicated it's synthesised (transcribed) from a DNA
template.

> and make important proteins for cell function.  Here we
> want to concentrate on two important transcription factors, nuclear
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Arachidonic acid is known to promote NF-kB.

So would Mead's acid oxidation. All sorts of oxidative stress
stimulate it.


> "Recent studies on diseases which involve insulin insensitivity (e.g.
> obesity, type 2 diabetes and atherosclerosis) also show increased
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> You will not find this type of statement in any physiology or
> pathology book anytime soon. Why? I don't know.

Because there's always a lag time between research being published and
it ending up in textbooks. Nothing new there.

> Nonetheless, we can
> see that inflammation is definitively viewed as a driver of chronic
> disease.
>
> The Reduction of Inflammation

<snip>

> Fatty acids (FAs) also need to be considered. The anti-inflammatory
> omega-3 FAs reduceNFkB activity,4,5 which means we need to reduce our
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> www.texasgrassfedbeef.com.) Supplementing with 1-2 grams of EPA/DHA
> from fish oil is also a good idea.

Did you miss this paragraph? Hardly supports your view.

> Finally, I&#8217;ve already acknowledged in a previous post that
> saying Mead acid was a MUFA instead of saying it was derived from a
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> has little interest in citing evidence, and when he does, I absolutely
> tear it apart, piece by piece.

You've never torn anything apart. Feel free to quote one of your
devastating rebuttals though, if you can find one.

MattLB
montygram - 03 Dec 2004 03:48 GMT
Since MattLB always has to get the last word, and I don&#8217;t have
time going over this ad infinitum, I&#8217;ll post this as my last
rebuttal for those who fear that this nonentity of a scientist may be
making any good points.

MattLB stated: Or indeed Mead's acid.

Yes, it&#8217;s not known for sure, but what is known for sure is that
Mead acid is much more chemically stable than arachidonic acid (AA)
and AA is implicated is just about every disease known to man.  Do a
www.pubmed.com search and see for yourself.  When you search for Mead
acid, on the other hand, you&#8217;ll find many studies that show how
Mead acid has anti-inflammatory properties.  The one possibly negative
study you cited did not compare Mead acid to AA, which is the point
you now decide to make the other way.  You can&#8217;t even be
consistent.  After posting the anti-Mead acid study several weeks ago,
which is just a lab artifact, unless they follow it up, it is
disingenuous of you to make this statement that Mead acid can cause
similar problems to AA.  But you are so blinded by your precious
textbooks that you&#8217;ll try to find some way to justify this
blatantly anti-scientific way to support your notions.  You&#8217;ve
never addressed how AA can be healthy when there are hundreds of
studies that demonstrate how it causes all kinds of incredible
cellular damage, including a recent one that stated that they could
not find any way AA could be in your body without being cytotoxic.
Basic biochemistry is what it is.  If you&#8217;ve got a very unstable
molecule in the cells of your body, how is that good?  If the more
stable molecule gets the job done, what idiot would rather have the
extremely biochemically active molecule instead?  Why are you so much
more afraid of dry skin than cancer (and who decides what dry skin
means &#8211; one sweats out toxins, so this may be a sign of a
detoxified body)?  If Mead acid didn&#8217;t do what dietary PUFAs do,
the skin would be falling off your body (and there are indeed disease
conditions that produce this effect) &#8211; that would be a sign of a
major deficiency, not what one or two investigators claim dry skin to
be.  As Berry once stated in one of his studies, there is no way to
know what the baseline is when everyone is eating a diet high in omega
6 PUFAs.  All the studies are skewered by this situation.
Vitamin/mineral deficiencies and other problems would need to be
excluded, which was one of the failings of those who claimed that HIV
causes AIDS (see physiologist Robert Root-Bernstein&#8217;s Rethinking
AIDS, for example).

MattLB: So the experiment by Burr and Burr using rats is nonsense
(your
words), because rats aren't humans, but ones with chickens are fine.
You do realise rats are closer to humans than chickens, right?

And here you do it again!  The study looked at pigs and chickens, and
pigs are much closer to humans in this context than rats, but you
choose the fact that chickens were also examined to support your
points, when in fact, one couldn&#8217;t do better than pigs in an
animal model.  You are either shameless or were never taught the
rudiments of the scientific process.

MattLB: No-one's ever said that. As usual you're attacking assertions
that
haven't been made.

If you allow your body to make Mead acid, by definition, that is
essential fatty acid deficient (EFAD), because if you consume more
than trace amounts of PUFAs, the Mead acid is displaced.  Or are you
ignorant of this fact?

MattLB: Who's ever claimed AA was a signal transducer? It's the
*result* of
signal transduction (i.e. a 2nd messenger).

AA is consumed in the diet or it can be produced by desaturase
enzymes.  What are you talking about here?  As the author of that
citation I quoted said: &#8220;reducing the production of selected
inflammatory factors such as cytokines, prostaglandins will permit the
T-Cells and TCRs to do their work in a better fashion, thereby
short-circuiting the NF-kB activation.&#8221;  This is the key point,
because Mead acid metabolites do not have the biochemical activity of
the dietary PUFAs &#8211; that point is not disputed.  The only point
disputed is whether Mead acid metabolites can do the job that dietary
PUFA metabolites can do.  If you only have to worry about dry skin,
while you avoid cancer, heart disease, AD and other neurodegenerative
diseases, etc., it would be a small price to pay.  And of course dry
skin can be caused by all kinds of things, though I haven&#8217;t
experienced this horrible affliction for more than 3 years now.  There
is no dispute that the metabolites of dietary PUFAs would be necessary
if your body couldn&#8217;t produce Mead acid (perhaps there is a rare
genetic disorder, but if there isn&#8217;t, it&#8217;s certainly
possible), though these metabolites would cause all kinds of problems
at some point, but the opposite would then have to be true.  In other
words, because PUFAs are necessary for critical biological functions,
the absence of dietary PUFAs should kill you fairly quickly if Mead
acid couldn&#8217;t perform these functions.  Keeping your skin from
getting unpleasantly dry is not one of these critical functions (and
one person&#8217;s dryness is another person&#8217;s non-greasiness).
Check and mate here, MattLB.  There&#8217;s no way to say that dietary
PUFAs are essential, then say that dry skin is the horror that awaits
&#8211; that kind of claim just makes one look like a moron.

If you want the latest, you can read Signal Transduction and Human
Disease (2003) by Finkel and Gutkind (ed.s).  On page 40, the point is
made that NF-kB is activated by oxidative stress and LTB4, among other
things.  Mead acid is not metabolized into LTB4, and LTB4 is directly
related to the common cancers.  Consume omega 6s in more than trace
amounts and deal yourself in for cancer.  Have fun with it, MattLB.

MattLB: Bizarre. Now you're suggested saturated fats have less
structural role
than PUFAs, despite packing closer. Or did you mean fall apart like a
book?

I don&#8217;t know where you got that from &#8211; you know I&#8217;ve
posted that fatty acids do not have the role of providing structural
integrity to cells (proteins like actin and myosin do this).
I&#8217;m just reiterating things I&#8217;ve heard people say will
happen to those who are supposedly EFAD.  I have no idea what the
actual theory is, because so many nutrition gurus make so may silly
claims, so in the past I&#8217;ve quoted from several textbooks I own.
Perhaps you can shed some light on this, since you&#8217;re such a
genius.  Exactly what will happen to those humans who are adults who
do not want to, or cannot get pregnant, if they avoid PUFAs, except in
the trace amounts found in foods like coconut oil (and how long will
it take)?  I&#8217;ve always said that pregnant women may need small
amounts, and that is also possible for children, although trace
amounts will likely suffice.  I&#8217;ve done this experiment on
myself for over 3 years.  Over 40 and with the thickest head of hair
that one could imagine, my skin is not scaly, and my rosacea is now
gone, after over a decade with this condition, even though I
supplemented with omega 3s as well as ate omega 3 foods.

As I said in a previous post, omega 3s interfere with omega 6
metabolization.  Everyone agrees on that point, and that is what the
studies that supposedly demonstrate essentiality reveal.  I&#8217;ve
looked at almost, if not all, of the studies that supposedly
demonstrate essentiality, and they just don&#8217;t cut it,
scientifically.  In one study, there was an old man who it was claimed
was EFAD, but there didn&#8217;t seem to be any major symptoms, and
his minor symptoms could have been due to low stomach acid,
vitamin/mineral deficiencies, or any number of other things.  My
grandparents only eat supermarket store food (in other words, no
grass-fed beef, for example), and they never use canola, soy, or flax
oils.  They don&#8217;t eat fish.  And they&#8217;ve eaten this way
their entire lives!  No EFAD in them, as far as their doctors can say
(and they are well).

The metabolites of EPA and AA are killers, pure and simple.  AIDS
seems to be largely due to PGE2 production, whereas the common cancers
are the result of LTB4.  Do a www.pubmed.com search for AIDS PGE2 or
cancer LTB4 and you&#8217;ll see what I mean.  These are AA
metabolites, and when you consume fish oil, you interfere with this to
some degree, but fish oil has all kinds of deleterious effects in its
own right.  A recent study demonstrated extreme immunosuppression from
fish oil, for example.  Mead acid can be metabolized into molecules
that do similar things, but not with the viciousness that the dietary
PUFA metabolites do, meaning no cancer, no AIDS, no heart disease,
etc.  This is what the evidence suggests, but the establishment has
vested interests in keeping  things the way they are.  One can follow
the evidence, and live a healthy life, or one can continue to follow
those who have failed decade after decade to cure diseases they said
they could.  For example, in the early days of AIDS, these clowns said
a vaccine would be available in less than a year, then it was 5 years,
then another 5, then under 10, and now, I guess, it&#8217;s go ask
Magic and see what he says.  Who is the bigger idiot, the person who
makes ludicrous claims or the person who believes them?  Get off
dietary polyunsaturates and then your body can deal with most
stressors (once the Mead acid replaces the AA, which takes about 2
years) successfully.  Is it any surprise that the so-called AIDS
epidemic began at exactly the time when most Americans had been
switched over to using oils high in omega 6s?

As far as the other points, you can contact the people themselves if
you disagree with them.  I supplied the sources.

Regarding the studies I refuted that Larry Hoover cited.  He posted a
study or two a long time ago.  He was trying to show that so-called
saturated fat is unhealthy.  I remember one was on diabetes.  As
I&#8217;ve posted a few times, it all depends on how you define
saturated fat.  If you include lard, as everyone does, you are dealing
with only 39% saturated fatty acids, whereas coconut oil is 92%
saturated.  Lard is used in lipid peroxidation experiments, whereas
you couldn&#8217;t do that with coconut oil because it would take too
long, and that is why coconut oil is healthy (though there are other
good qualities to it, such as the medium-chain fatty acids).
It&#8217;s all about oxidative stress, and the lipid peroxidation a
human gets from eating too much PUFAs is a killer.  I wouldn&#8217;t
believe it myself if I hadn&#8217;t done years of research, but the
evidence is what it is, even the studies that show cholesterol being
unhealthy are really just showing what happens when you allow
cholesterol to be oxidized.  I recently challenged Hoover to produce
the studies that he said proved his point, and he declined to do so,
so you can take this point up with him.  He&#8217;s such a buffoon
that I won&#8217;t respond to his posts until he decides to cite
actual evidence.  When I cited several Mead acid studies, showing that
it is beneficial, he said that the studies were taken out of context,
even though the titles of the studies made clear the points I was
making, but when challenged to explain (in his infinite wisdom)
exactly what those studies meant, he ignored the request.  What a
laughingstock he is!

However, I did find a recent study saying that saturated fat was bad
because it actually enhanced free radical production.  When I took a
good look at it, what actually happened was that the saturated fatty
acids (in vitro, not in vivo) inhibited growth so much that the cell
could not grow, so it went aptopic, and then of course, there were
some free radicals generated (as the cell disintegrated, and lysosomes
are released) that could be measured.  In the body, which can make
MUFAs, and from there Mead acid, this does not occur, as a follow-up
study demonstrated (by using some oleic with the palmitic).  The human
body does not need these extremely dangerous substances.  This
experiment was just lab artifact, which brings up the point that
unless done possesses an overall understanding, one just goes around
cherry-picking studies that support one&#8217;s point, which is what
you, Larry Hoover (who seems to be too lazy to even do that any more),
and others do.  But in this case, your claims make no sense
whatsoever, from any perspective.  All anyone has to do is ask
themselves if they or anyone they know avoids omega 3 foods, and
it&#8217;s very easy to find such people, which blows the whole notion
out of the water.  No need to worry about it beyond that, though
I&#8217;m still waiting for a clear and detailed statement of this
essential fatty acid theory is.  Life exists between thresholds, and
even a little AA is too much, whereas saturated fatty acids have an
anti-growth effect, which means an anti-cancer effect, and only by
overwhelming cells in a test tube with saturated fatty acids do the
cells become overwhelmed and die.  In the body, saturated fat gets
converted to more biologically active fatty acids as is needed, but
there&#8217;s nothing wrong with cell death, because old cells need to
be replaced, and of course few people think uncontrolled cell growth
is good.

Now, MattLB, you need to answer some questions if you expect anyone to
take you seriously on this topic, for example:

How much omega 3 and omega 6 do people need each day?  If it&#8217;s
so important, why are there not plenty of experiments that demonstrate
the amount needed?  Also, if the amount of omega 3s my grandparents
are getting (which is either zero, or as close to zero as is possible)
is enough, why should anyone worry about deficiency (since it&#8217;s
easy to get some omega 6s, but omega 3s are less common in the typical
US diet)?

What exactly will happen if one is deficient in one, the other, or
both?

How long will it take to see the so-called deficiency symptoms?  So,
for example, how many more years before I lose my incredibly thick
hair, my rosacea comes back, my skin gets scaly, or whatever?

If an investigator were to gather a dozen dogs up and feed them on
coconut oil as the only major fat source, with no source of omega 3s
(I would feed them eggs, nutritional yeast, and other good sources of
protein and vitamins/minerals, for example), what horrible things will
happen to them, and how long will it take?

I will make a wager with you, MattLB.  We will put $35,000 of your
money in escrow, and get a lawyer to draw up an agreement.  I will pay
the cost of the experiment, but if the dogs are still healthy after a
few years, as certified by a vet we both agree upon, I get that
$35,000 in escrow.  If not, I&#8217;ll pay you $35,000.  Put your
money where your mouth is.  This is the only way to challenge gutless
so-called scientists such as yourself, who hide behind textbook
nonsense and studies done in a test tube that are just artifacts.
I&#8217;ve put my life where my mouth is, by avoiding dietary PUFAs,
but what we have these days are people who obtain credentials, but are
then never compelled to actually produce results.  When is the AIDS
vaccine going to be ready?  When is the war on cancer going to be won?
Why is heart disease still the number one killer, even though it was
the first non-infectious disease targeted by the military industrial
complex, or whatever you want to call it (about 50 years ago)?  The
reason is people like you, MattLB, because you defend nonsense instead
of saying to yourself something like, &#8220;wait a minute, he may
have a point, because the massive use of PUFA oils coincides with all
the steep rise in many of these diseases, exactly.&#8221;  Stomach
cancer used to be the number one cancer in the USA, but now colon
cancer is very high (leaving aside lung cancer, due to the connection
to smoking), and yet the great scientists we have working for us
don&#8217;t even try to explain this phenomenon.  They are too busy
working for Big Pharma, directly or indirectly, hoping to make
millions by designing drugs that will keep a few terminally-ill
patients alive for an extra month while milking them for tens of
thousands of dollars (not to mention the side-effects of the drugs).

For those of you who want to avoid the meat grinder, whether
it&#8217;s bypass surgery, chemotherapy, or whatever, just avoid
polyunsaturated fatty acids, and be sure not to expose foods high in
cholesterol to air while you&#8217;re cooking them (eggs and shrimp,
for example).  Eat berries, dark chocolate, and other high-antioxidant
foods.  Use butter and coconut oil as your fats.

If you listen to these scientists, that is, people who can&#8217;t
find their a.ses with both hands (who tell you to avoid cholesterol or
to eat PUFAs), you will find yourself in a hospital bed, with them
telling you about your options (and none of those will be pleasant).
The evidence has been around a long time now, but now it&#8217;s
crystal clear.  Thomas Moore&#8217;s Heart Failure is a good book
about how the establishment operates, though The Cholesterol
Conspiracy is very interesting as well.  Knowledge is indeed power, in
that you can at least save your own butt by avoiding dietary PUFAs.
MattLB - 03 Dec 2004 12:58 GMT
> Since MattLB always has to get the last word, and I don&#8217;t have
> time going over this ad infinitum, I&#8217;ll post this as my last
> rebuttal for those who fear that this nonentity of a scientist may be
> making any good points.

Well at least for once you're addressing some of the points made -
although not the ones that really damage your position of course.

> MattLB stated: Or indeed Mead's acid.
>
> Yes, it&#8217;s not known for sure, but what is known for sure is that
> Mead acid is much more chemically stable than arachidonic acid (AA)

As usual you steer things back to AA. The C22 that you were claiming
has never been shown to be important, was omega 3 derived.

> and AA is implicated is just about every disease known to man.  Do a
> www.pubmed.com search and see for yourself.

I already know, and have told you I already know.

>  When you search for Mead
> acid, on the other hand, you&#8217;ll find many studies that show how
> Mead acid has anti-inflammatory properties.  The one possibly negative
> study you cited did not compare Mead acid to AA, which is the point
> you now decide to make the other way.  You can&#8217;t even be
> consistent.

I haven't ever compared Mead acid to AA, beyond pointing out to you
that they are both PUFAs. You can't expect me to be consistent about
things you've imagined and I've never even said.

>  After posting the anti-Mead acid study several weeks ago,
> which is just a lab artifact, unless they follow it up,

Talk about closed-minded.

> it is
> disingenuous of you to make this statement that Mead acid can cause
> similar problems to AA.

I haven't made such a statement, beyond the fact that as PUFAs they
are both capable of free radical chain reactions in a membrane. Of
course since you don't believe in membranes you won't believe that
either.

>  But you are so blinded by your precious
> textbooks that you&#8217;ll try to find some way to justify this
> blatantly anti-scientific way to support your notions.

I've also told you many times I have direct experience and don't rely
on textbooks which are unavoidably out-of-date when published.

>  You&#8217;ve
> never addressed how AA can be healthy when there are hundreds of
> studies that demonstrate how it causes all kinds of incredible
> cellular damage, including a recent one that stated that they could
> not find any way AA could be in your body without being cytotoxic.

Excess AA is unhealthy. No AA at all is also unhealthy.

> Basic biochemistry is what it is.  If you&#8217;ve got a very unstable
> molecule in the cells of your body, how is that good?  If the more
> stable molecule gets the job done, what idiot would rather have the
> extremely biochemically active molecule instead?  Why are you so much
> more afraid of dry skin than cancer

More illogical conclusions.

>(and who decides what dry skin
> means &#8211; one sweats out toxins,

Such as? That sort of comment is straight from pop science.

> so this may be a sign of a
> detoxified body)?  If Mead acid didn&#8217;t do what dietary PUFAs do,
> the skin would be falling off your body

Skin falls off your body every day. That's how it works.

> MattLB: So the experiment by Burr and Burr using rats is nonsense
> (your
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> animal model.  You are either shameless or were never taught the
> rudiments of the scientific process.

Just giving you a taste of your own medicine. Pigs are certainly a
better model than rats, so why mention chickens at all?

> MattLB: No-one's ever said that. As usual you're attacking assertions
> that
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> than trace amounts of PUFAs, the Mead acid is displaced.  Or are you
> ignorant of this fact?

It's not so much displaced as not made.

> MattLB: Who's ever claimed AA was a signal transducer? It's the
> *result* of
> signal transduction (i.e. a 2nd messenger).
>
> AA is consumed in the diet or it can be produced by desaturase
> enzymes.  What are you talking about here?

Okay, so you reveal that your basic biochemical knowledge is shakey.
Arachidonic acid is found in membrane phospholipids, like any other
fatty acid. In this form it doesn't do anything. When an AA-containing
phospholipid is acted on by a phospholipase enzyme (in reponse to some
sort of external signal) the AA is released from the phospholipid. The
external signal (e.g. a hormone) has therefore been transduced into an
internal chemical signal (free AA).

The free AA can either act directly to regulate certain enzymes, or be
converted to prostaglandins, thrombane, leukotrienes or lipoxins.

>  In other
> words, because PUFAs are necessary for critical biological functions,
> the absence of dietary PUFAs should kill you fairly quickly

Why? Vitamin and mineral deficiencies don't kill you quickly. Even
protein deficiency doesn't kill you quickly.

> Check and mate here, MattLB.  There&#8217;s no way to say that dietary
> PUFAs are essential, then say that dry skin is the horror that awaits
> &#8211; that kind of claim just makes one look like a moron.

You look more of a moron if you dismiss all the signalling molecules
made from PUFAs (in particular AA) as being functionless.

If you could remove all the AA from your body you would end up with
all the problems seen as side effects in anti-inflammatory drugs that
act via the COX-1 pathways i.e. thinning of the gastric wall including
perforation, excess acid production, peptic ulcers, impaired kidney
function, reduced control of blood vessels, internal haemorrhage and
prolonged bleeding, along with numerous minor aliments like headaches
and skin rashes.

Individuals who genetically lack the lipooxygenase enzyme (which has
AA as its substrate) are three times more likely to have bleeding
complications (partly due to a reduced response to platelet activating
factor). They also show reduced neutrophil response to immune
complexes.

> If you want the latest, you can read Signal Transduction and Human
> Disease (2003) by Finkel and Gutkind (ed.s).  On page 40, the point is
> made that NF-kB is activated by oxidative stress and LTB4, among other
> things.  Mead acid is not metabolized into LTB4, and LTB4 is directly
> related to the common cancers.  Consume omega 6s in more than trace
> amounts and deal yourself in for cancer.  Have fun with it, MattLB.

NF-kB is essential for dealing with infection and radiation/UV damage
too, but you seem to think its only job is to give you cancer.

> MattLB: Bizarre. Now you're suggested saturated fats have less
> structural role
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> I&#8217;m just reiterating things I&#8217;ve heard people say will
> happen to those who are supposedly EFAD.

So you just took on face value the idea that they would fall to bits?
For a start saturated fats are solid at room temperature; unsaturated
are liquid. That along should tell you something about which would
make cells more robust.

>  I have no idea what the
> actual theory is, because so many nutrition gurus make so may silly
> claims, so in the past I&#8217;ve quoted from several textbooks I own.

Time for a quote from you:

"you are so blinded by your precious
textbooks that you&#8217;ll try to find some way to justify this
blatantly anti-scientific way to support your notions."

>  Perhaps you can shed some light on this, since you&#8217;re such a
> genius.  Exactly what will happen to those humans who are adults who
> do not want to, or cannot get pregnant, if they avoid PUFAs, except in
> the trace amounts found in foods

Whoever said you should be eating grams and grams of (all?) PUFAs?

> like coconut oil (and how long will
> it take)?  I&#8217;ve always said that pregnant women may need small
> amounts, and that is also possible for children, although trace
> amounts will likely suffice.

Brains are 25% DHA. The growing baby brain has to get it from
somewhere. You work it out.

Maternal Supplementation With Very-Long-Chain n-3 Fatty Acids During
Pregnancy and Lactation Augments Children's IQ at 4 Years of Age
Ingrid B. Helland, MD*,, Lars Smith, PhD, Kristin Saarem, PhD||, Ola
D. Saugstad, MD, PhD and Christian A. Drevon, MD, PhD*

"At birth, Osbond and Mead acid correlated negatively with
intelligence scores, and these fatty acids have been proposed to be
markers of DHA depletion. High levels of these fatty acids might also
represent nonoptimal ligands for transcription factors, substrates for
enzymatic activities, or structural components in the central nervous
system."

> The metabolites of EPA and AA are killers, pure and simple.

Only in excess.

> AIDS
> seems to be largely due to PGE2 production, whereas the common cancers
> are the result of LTB4.

That's overly simplistic, even for you.

> Magic and see what he says.  Who is the bigger idiot, the person who
> makes ludicrous claims or the person who believes them?

Gilbert Ling, or you? Hmm.

>  Get off
> dietary polyunsaturates and then your body can deal with most
> stressors (once the Mead acid replaces the AA, which takes about 2
> years) successfully.  Is it any surprise that the so-called AIDS
> epidemic began at exactly the time when most Americans had been
> switched over to using oils high in omega 6s?

And promiscuous gay men and intravenous drug users eat far more omega
6 do they?

> It&#8217;s all about oxidative stress, and the lipid peroxidation a
> human gets from eating too much PUFAs is a killer.

Eating oxidised Mead acid would do you in just the same.

> However, I did find a recent study saying that saturated fat was bad
> because it actually enhanced free radical production.  When I took a
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> study demonstrated (by using some oleic with the palmitic).  The human
> body does not need these extremely dangerous substances.

You almost seem to think that diet is the only source of AA.

>  This
> experiment was just lab artifact, which brings up the point that
> unless done possesses an overall understanding, one just goes around
> cherry-picking studies that support one&#8217;s point, which is what
> you, Larry Hoover (who seems to be too lazy to even do that any more),
> and others do.

No, it's what you are forced to do and you usually chose references
that aren't actually ansering the specific challenge to you, but are
just another "AA is bad" telling us nothing new.

> Now, MattLB, you need to answer some questions if you expect anyone to
> take you seriously on this topic, for example:
>
> How much omega 3 and omega 6 do people need each day?

That depends on their genetic makeup and what their current lipid
composition is. Although if you need some figures you could look here:

http://www.powerpak.com/index.asp?show=lesson&lsn_id=1861&page=courses/1861/tabl
es.htm#table5


> What exactly will happen if one is deficient in one, the other, or
> both?

You get all the same disorders as are seen as side-effects of drugs
that knock out eicosanoid production.

Here's a reference to a case where low LA and very low LNA lead to
problems that were cured by supplementation with LNA:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra
ct&list_uids=6801965


A good overview is here:
"The slow discovery of the importance of omega 3 essential fatty acids
in human health."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra
ct&list_uids=9478042


> How long will it take to see the so-called deficiency symptoms?  So,
> for example, how many more years before I lose my incredibly thick
> hair, my rosacea comes back, my skin gets scaly, or whatever?

I'm not psychic. Maybe you are. How long before I lose my hair because
I'm not trying to make myself EFA deficient?

> If an investigator were to gather a dozen dogs up and feed them on
> coconut oil as the only major fat source, with no source of omega 3s
> (I would feed them eggs,

Egg yolk has EFA.

> nutritional yeast, and other good sources of
> protein and vitamins/minerals, for example), what horrible things will
> happen to them, and how long will it take?

I'm not psychic with regard to dogs either.

> The
> reason is people like you, MattLB, because you defend nonsense instead
> of saying to yourself something like, &#8220;wait a minute, he may
> have a point, because the massive use of PUFA oils coincides with all
> the steep rise in many of these diseases, exactly.&#8221;

I obviously need to remind you again that I'm not suggesting everyone
eat lots of PUFA. I know all about the negative effects of peroxidised
PUFA. I'm suggesting some PUFA are essential components of the body.
The fat content of the retina is about half omega 3 PUFA. That's not
by accident.

> Stomach
> cancer used to be the number one cancer in the USA, but now colon
> cancer is very high (leaving aside lung cancer, due to the connection
> to smoking), and yet the great scientists we have working for us
> don&#8217;t even try to explain this phenomenon.

Lack of fibre is the standard explanation.

> For those of you who want to avoid the meat grinder, whether
> it&#8217;s bypass surgery, chemotherapy, or whatever, just avoid
> polyunsaturated fatty acids, and be sure not to expose foods high in
> cholesterol to air while you&#8217;re cooking them (eggs and shrimp,
> for example).  Eat berries, dark chocolate, and other high-antioxidant
> foods.  Use butter and coconut oil as your fats.

I see nothing controversial in this. Oxidised fat is bad, whatever
type it is. Oxidised Mead acid is just as bad. I would go a step
further and say never fry things, especially not in sunflower oil.

MattLB
MikeV - 03 Dec 2004 15:47 GMT
, even for you.
SNIPl.

> MattLB

Matt:
Boy! He really slaughtered you.  I really like the novel bit about
how good berries and dark chocolate are for you!
I bet that one hurt!
Sometimes I wonder about the wisdom of you and Larry Hoover
bothering to reply to such streams of inanity, but I am glad that
you do. For me and I suspect others, it is a continuing process of
education.
Thanks

Nick:
Truly you are a lone voice in the wilderness, old friend. Do you
ever feel like King Canute?
Have you ever considered the possibility that substituting Mead Acid
for DHA in your brain cells may have damaged your ability to
organize your thoughts?
A real downer for a true lipid scientist!
I have heard that Mead acid has been associated with early onset of
Alzheimer's. (Sorry but I seem to have mislaid my reference)
Note: Your News Editor appears to be inserting strange codes
(&#8217) instead of apostrophes. I suggest you drop apostrophes. No
clarity will be lost, I assure you. :-)

Regards
MikeV
montygram - 06 Dec 2004 06:11 GMT
Any body with a tiny amount of gray matter realizes that some
individuals and companies are exploiting the notion of essential fatty
acid deficiency to try to sell a lot of product, but this product is
dangerous in more than trace amounts.  If I&#8217;m not EFAD after
about 3 years on my present diet (not only don&#8217;t I have any of
those symptoms listed on the web page you referenced, and I just had
an eye exam, an MRA, a CBC, etc., but my skin is better than ever),
why should anyone talk of EFAD as if it&#8217;s such an important
thing to avoid?  I think this is the key point as far as you&#8217;re
concerned.  It&#8217;s true that from what I&#8217;ve experienced and
read, EFAD is healthy, if you are an adult who doesn&#8217;t want to,
or can&#8217;t get pregnant, but we can allow readers to decide for
themselves.  Don&#8217;t you see that there&#8217;s virtually no
possibility of avoiding dietary PUFAs, and that the best advice is to
make sure you don&#8217;t eat too much?  If you eat eggs, you might as
well get the organic omega 3 enriched (to interfere with AA
metabolization), but other than that, I don&#8217;t see any need to go
out of one&#8217;s way to eat PUFAs.

Since, as you yourself admit (by noting the small amount of PUFAs in
eggs) that it&#8217;s difficult to avoid small amounts of PUFAs (in a
typical American diet), the common American diet must be sufficient.
Otherwise, we would see things like the pellagra epidemics or scurvy
among sailors, which we don&#8217;t see.  However, do you want AA as
the primary stressor-induced fatty acid in your body?  The evidence is
overwhelmingly against this, and Mead acid, again from the evidence,
seems like just what the doctor ordered (before doctors sold out to
Big Pharma, that is).  The web site you cited did not supply an
original experiment to support its claims.  However, the claim that
omega 3s are needed for eye health is interesting.  When I was a kid,
hardly anyone ever ate fish, and there was little soy oil used, if any
(canola wasn&#8217;t yet invented and flax was not in the stores), and
yet none of the kids I knew had eye problems, yet Eskimo kids do (even
though the media is telling us to eat more omega 3s &#8211; like the
Eskimos do).  Here is the frightening evidence:

Acta Ophthalmol Scand. 2003 Jun;81(3):304-8.
Involvement of oxidative and nitrosative stress in
promoting retinal vasculitis in patients with Eales'
disease.

Rajesh M, Sulochana KN, Punitham R, Biswas J, Lakshmi
S, Ramakrishnan S.

Biochemistry Research Department, Vision Research
Foundation, Sankara Nethralaya, 600006 Chennai, India.

Eales' disease in Inuit: report of four cases.

Moldow B, la Cour M.

PURPOSE: To report four cases of Eales' disease in
Inuit from Greenland diagnosed within a 6.5-year
Period&#8230; Four younger Inuit, three males and one female, were
diagnosed with
Eales' disease based on fundus changes and exclusion
of possible differential diagnoses&#8230; CONCLUSION:
Eales' disease seems to be rather common in the small
population of Inuit (56,000) in Greenland. Attention
is required to ensure diagnosis and appropriate
treatment, including laser photocoagulation, leading
to a reasonably good prognosis.

And:

CONCLUSIONS: Our findings from this study clearly
reveal the involvement of RNS and ROS in the
development of retinal vasculitis in ED. Based on our
present study and earlier studies we confirm the role
of free radicals in mediating retinal tissue damage in
ED.

Source:  Clin Biochem. 2003 Jul;36(5):377-85.

It's all about oxidative stress, though cofactors like iron sometimes
play a role.

Your idea about stomach cancer is disappointing too, because most
Americans eat less fiber today than they did in the early twentieth
century (and the fiber studies are equivocal, at best).  The Japanese
still have high rates, and the answer seems quite clear:  oxidative
stress to the stomach