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Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / November 2004

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The Lancet skewers Merck and FDA over Vioxx , let's try again

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tcomeau - 08 Nov 2004 16:48 GMT
The Lancet editorial

Published online
November 5,2004

Today we publish results from a cumulative meta-analysis
which show that the unacceptable cardiovascular risks of
Vioxx (rofecoxib)were evident as early as 2000 —a full
4 years before the drug was ?nally withdrawn from the
market by its manufacturer,Merck.This discovery points to
astonishing failures in Merck 's internal systems of post-
marketing surveillance,as well as to lethal weaknesses in
the US Food and Drug Administration 's regulatory over-
sight.In a recent Editorial,we commended Merck for acting
promptly in the face of new ?ndings about the safety of
Vioxx.

Our praise was premature.The evidence showing
that Vioxx caused significant adverse events was apparent
well before data from the APPROVe trial triggered Merck 's
overdue intervention.This week 's report by Peter Jüni and
colleagues will add signi ?cant weight to ongoing litigation
against Merck by patients who believe they were harmed by
this drug.

These findings also come in the wake of new disclosures
that suggest Merck was indeed fully aware of Vioxx 's
potential risks by 2000.Investigations by the Wall Street
Journal have revealed e-mails that confirm Merck executives '
knowledge of their drug 's adverse cardiovascular profile —
the risk was "clearly there ",according to one senior
researcher.Merck 's marketing literature included a docu-
ment intended for its sales representatives which discussed
how to respond to questions about Vioxx —it was labelled
"Dodge Ball Vioxx ".Given this disturbing contradiction —
Merck 's own understanding of Vioxx 's true risk pro ?le and
its attempt to gloss over these risks in their public state-
ments at the time —it is hard to see how Merck 's chief exec-
utive of ?cer,Raymond Gilmartin,can retain the con ?dence
of the public,his company 's most important constituency.
The FDA 's position is no less comfortable.The public ex-
pects national drug regulators to complete research,such as
that published by Jüni and colleagues,in their ongoing ef-
forts to protect patients from undue harm.But,too often,
the FDA saw and continues to see the pharmaceutical
industry as its customer —a vital source of funding for its
activities —and not as a sector of society in need of strong
regulation.

Worse still,the FDA 's Office of Drug Safety co-exists in the
same centre —the Centre for Drug Evaluation and Research
(CDER)—as the Office of New Drugs,the part of the agency
that works most closely with industry to license new medi-
cines.Once a licensing approval has been made it is natu-
rally in CDER 's own interests to stand by its original
decision.CDER 's reputation would be damaged if its licens-
ing judgments were constantly challenged by its own staff.
This understandable but dangerous tendency to discourage
dissent makes the Office of Drug Safety,which sits lower in
the hierarchy of CDER than the Office of New Drugs,weak
and ineffective.The inherent precedence that licensing of
new drugs takes over safety evaluation is a serious ?aw in
FDA 's complex regulatory structure.
In the case of Vioxx,FDA was urged to mandate further
clinical safety testing after a 2001 analysis suggested a
"clear-cut excess number of myocardial infarctions ".

It did not do so.This refusal to engage with an issue of grave clin-
ical concern illustrates the agency 's in-built paralysis,a
predicament that has to be addressed through fundamen-
tal organisational reform.
On Nov 2,2004,the FDA tried to shore up its tarnished
reputation by posting on its website an early version of a
recently completed observational study into the safety of
Vioxx.The report comes with a warning that it has "not
been fully evaluated by the FDA and may not re ?ect the
of ?cial views of the agency ".The FDA investigators esti-
mate that over 27 000 excess cases of acute myocardial
infarction and sudden cardiac death occurred in the USA be-
tween 1999 and 2003."These cases ",they write,"would
have been avoided had celecoxib been used instead of
rofecoxib ".This study is presently under review at
The Lancet .It is unclear why the FDA could not have waited
for the fully evaluated report to have been scrutinised,
revised,and published according to the norms of scienti ?c
peer review.Bypassing independent peer review smacks of
panic in the FDA,which is under intense reputational pres-
sure.And yet its decision to try to undermine the integrity
of this work again shows that the agency 's senior manage-
ment is more concerned with external appearance than
rigorous science.
The licensing of Vioxx and its continued use in the face of
unambiguous evidence of harm have been public-health
catastrophes.This controversy will not end with the drug 's
withdrawal.Merck 's likely litigation bill is put at between
US$10 and $15 billion.The company has seen its revenues
and market capitalisation slashed.It has been ?nancially
disabled and its reputation lies in ruins.It is not at all clear
that Merck will survive this growing scandal.
But the most important legacy of this episode is the con-
tinued erosion of trust that public-health institutions will
suffer.Failure to act decisively on signals of risk might min-
imise short-term political criticism for regulators,or share-
holder unrest for company chief executives.But the
long-term consequence of prevarication is a tide of public
scepticism about just whose interests drug makers and
regulators truly represent.
It is no good saying,as some academic physicians have
said to me,that one must expect pharmaceutical compa-
nies to do all they can to protect their products,even in the
face of clear evidence of risk.And it is of little help to sug-
gest that regulators have a nearly impossible job of balanc-
ing harms and bene ?ts.Defenders of our systems of drug
regulation argue that the blame for the Vioxx debacle in-
Vioxx,the implosion of Merck,and aftershocks at the FDA
stead rests on allegedly credulous specialists who should
have asked tougher questions about the drug they were
prescribing.Why clinical investigators studying Vioxx did
not do more to raise concerns is a fair question that needs
to be answered.But in doing so,we must not diminish the
importance of the covenant of trust that society has estab-
lished with powerful commercial and governmental institu-
tions.For with Vioxx,Merck and the FDA acted out of
ruthless,short-sighted,and irresponsible self-interest.

Richard Horton

The Lancet ,London NW1 7BY,UK

**************

Now that is strong language.

"ruthless,short-sighted,and irresponsible self-interest"

How many other similarly dangerous "approved" drugs are being
prescribed and taken by millions of unsuspecting patients. What damage
is being done as we speak? Amd Merck has always been seen as one of
the more upstanding pharmaceutical companies. Heads should roll at the
FDA and Merck should be shut down.

TC

***********

I just thought I would repost this in case anyone wanted to actually
discuss the topic presented, as opposed to responding to Robert's
incessant bullshit trolling.

TC
markd@toad-net.com - 08 Nov 2004 16:14 GMT
"It is unclear why the FDA could not have waited for the fully evaluated
report to have been scrutinised, revised,and published according to the
norms of scientific peer review.   Bypassing independent peer review
smacks
of panic in the FDA, which is under intense reputational pressure.   And
yet its decision to try to undermine the integrity of this work again
shows
that the agency 's senior management is more concerned with external
appearance than rigorous science."
Robert - 08 Nov 2004 19:01 GMT
> "It is unclear why the FDA could not have waited for the fully evaluated
> report to have been scrutinised, revised,and published according to the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> that the agency 's senior management is more concerned with external
> appearance than rigorous science."

It is a Canadian drug and they relied on the Canadians.
tcomeau - 09 Nov 2004 04:39 GMT
> > "It is unclear why the FDA could not have waited for the fully evaluated
> > report to have been scrutinised, revised,and published according to the
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> It is a Canadian drug and they relied on the Canadians.

f.ck off troll
Robert - 09 Nov 2004 08:06 GMT
> > > "It is unclear why the FDA could not have waited for the fully evaluated
> > > report to have been scrutinised, revised,and published according to the
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> f.ck off troll
What does this have to do with nutrition? Troll.
tcomeau - 09 Nov 2004 14:45 GMT
> > "Robert" <RobertJ@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>  news:<10ovgnjhgn2oe1d@corp.supernews.com>...
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> > f.ck off troll
> What does this have to do with nutrition? Troll.

It has to do with the larger topic of science and medicine, and one of
the  reasonable alternatives to these useless drugs is just plain good
nutrition.

Hint: if you nead someone to explain things to you on an ongoing
basis, then you don't belong here, it is way above your ability to
function intellectually. Now, f.ck off ya troll.

TC
Robert - 09 Nov 2004 18:47 GMT
> > > "Robert" <RobertJ@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >  news:<10ovgnjhgn2oe1d@corp.supernews.com>...
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> TC

You never mention any alternatives to Vioxx and Atenolol Troll.
People on these medications have run out of alternatives and you mention
none. Post on Sci.med.pharmacy troll.
tcomeau - 10 Nov 2004 15:18 GMT
> > "Robert" <RobertJ@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>  news:<10p0umthfbddv37@corp.supernews.com>...
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> People on these medications have run out of alternatives and you mention
> none. Post on Sci.med.pharmacy troll.

Diet. A healthy, nutritious diet with plenty of naturally occuring
proteins, fats, low-density whole food carbohydrates, vitamins and
minerals. Vitamins C is a collagen precursor, guess what part of the
joint is affected by arthritis, the collagen.

No pill in the world will make you healthy.

TC
Dunne E. Dawe - 14 Nov 2004 04:46 GMT
>> > "Robert" <RobertJ@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>  news:<10p0umthfbddv37@corp.supernews.com>...
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
>Diet. A healthy, nutritious diet with plenty of naturally occuring
>proteins, fats, low-density whole food carbohydrates,

I understood that carbs were poison in your mind.
I'm still wondering what these "low density carbs" are.
What do you imagine Vioxx is taken for?
How can a footballer prevent injury witha particular diet?

>vitamins and
>minerals. Vitamins C is a collagen precursor, guess what part of the
>joint is affected by arthritis, the collagen.

And this simplistic little suggestion is a pearler!

How many folk get this crippling disease in old age after a life on a
perfect diet? Do you even know? Or is your belief religious?
How many osteoarthritis cases are caused by physical trauma?

>No pill in the world will make you healthy.

But many different "pills" will make natural aging more bearable.

And of course, extend your life.
GMCarter - 14 Nov 2004 11:35 GMT
snip

>How many folk get this crippling disease in old age after a life on a
>perfect diet? Do you even know? Or is your belief religious?
>How many osteoarthritis cases are caused by physical trauma?

Hey--not sure I have the answers to these but I hope they're not just
rhetorical! Do you know?

I've been reviewing an interesting paper by a fellow that briefly
looks at the rates of osteopenia in various cultures. Part of the
issue does appear to be the local availability of minerals in drinking
water, for example. Certainly, we know there is a predisposition for
some viral infections, like Coxsackie virus, to only become a disease
issue in the absence of nutritional agents--in that case, selenium
deficiency with Coxsackie infection results in Keshan's disease.

There is indeed a role for nutrients to offset and manage many chronic
diseases. And their may be better agents in the botanical
pharmacopoeia that could be as effective as agents like Vioxx... but
they get a short clinical shrift because they can't be patented. and
then some company can't decide to screw people to death to take every
last dime they have in order to obtain that hyperinflated pill.

Sigh No easy answers. But the idiotic polemic that posits "natural"
VERSUS "pharmaceutical" doesn't do any of us with chronic diseases any
good. (I think you realize that Dunne so don't take that as a personal
comment!)

        George M. Carter
Dunne E. Dawe - 15 Nov 2004 11:46 GMT
>snip
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>Hey--not sure I have the answers to these but I hope they're not just
>rhetorical! Do you know?

Not anywhere near exactly, but my orthopaedic surgeon says that "many"
cases of osteoarthritis are the eventual outcome of earlier traumatic
injury. One of the first questions he asked me. Then he asks if I have
ever taken loads of steroids, or have ever been an alcoholic.
After that, it's just a genetic predisposition to wear out
prematurely. Me and my Pappy have "Japanese Joints" in the vernacular
of the late 40s and 50s. Those with incontinence were said to have
"Japanese Bladders" -- how times have changed!

>I've been reviewing an interesting paper by a fellow that briefly
>looks at the rates of osteopenia in various cultures. Part of the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>issue in the absence of nutritional agents--in that case, selenium
>deficiency with Coxsackie infection results in Keshan's disease.

Of course this is not osteoarthritis. Some people get both and if they
don't get a replacement joint they can suffer a catastrophic collapse
of the joint. The penia of my osteo is fine, so it is just a worn out
hip joint, as none of the other causes apply to me. Well I can't
remember a trauma to my hip, but perhaps I had several small ones.

>There is indeed a role for nutrients to offset and manage many chronic
>diseases. And their may be better agents in the botanical
>pharmacopoeia that could be as effective as agents like Vioxx... but
>they get a short clinical shrift because they can't be patented.

Not true. Anything that works can be used. Many drugs in the
pharmacopoea started out as naturally occurring substances, and the
chemists have mucked about to get rid of some of the side-effects and
increase the effects we want.

>and
>then some company can't decide to screw people to death to take every
>last dime they have in order to obtain that hyperinflated pill.

I think that America has twisted your thinking on this. Drugs here
cost us next to nothing, and so we can try all sorts of things. I've
known folk try half a dozen trial packs of different things for free,
and then decide if any of them are worth the side effects. Celebrex
probably does nothing special for me, my drug of choice is diclofenac.
Naprosyn actually does do nothing for me -- I've tried it.

>Sigh No easy answers. But the idiotic polemic that posits "natural"
>VERSUS "pharmaceutical" doesn't do any of us with chronic diseases any
>good. (I think you realize that Dunne so don't take that as a personal
>comment!)

Of course not. I appreciate your stating it here. That seems to be the
value of newsgroups. Information for all to read and either benefit
from or ignore.

Afterall, the original anti-arthritic is salicylic acid from willow
bark (Salix). It burned holes in your gut, so some early experimental
chemist acetylated the salicylic acid to acetylsalicylic acid or
aspirin. For many years we had no idea how it worked but recently
discovered its inhibition of prostaglandin synthesis, and found all
sorts of other anti-inflamatory drugs with all sorts of interesting
properties. If it costs too much, then that is because the "market"
was chosen to develop these things. Many problems ensue from this
choice, aside from huge costs from an insatiable thirst for profits
for the drug company share holders. It would seem far more reasonable
to have a government funded research institution and manufacturing set
up, so that good health can be had at reasonable cost for all. The
number of different "me too" drugs out there only adds to confusion
and increased costs.
GMCarter - 16 Nov 2004 11:14 GMT
snip
>>>How many folk get this crippling disease in old age after a life on a
>>>perfect diet? Do you even know? Or is your belief religious?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>cases of osteoarthritis are the eventual outcome of earlier traumatic
>injury.

Well, as far as osteoarthritis and a "perfect diet" I guess there
can't be any data. But as to injury, there are some and it is little
surprise. A review of PubMed using the search terms, "osteoarthritis,
etiology and injury" yielded a number of results.

Other contributing factors are obesity and age. Clearly, the stresses
and strains of life can contribute to inflammation. But how do we
manage that aspect?

snip>
>Of course this is not osteoarthritis. Some people get both and if they
>don't get a replacement joint they can suffer a catastrophic collapse
>of the joint. The penia of my osteo is fine, so it is just a worn out
>hip joint, as none of the other causes apply to me. Well I can't
>remember a trauma to my hip, but perhaps I had several small ones.

Ah, you're correct. The same paper did discuss the role of locally
available mineral content in diet and its impact on various
populations and their local prevalence of diseases like osteoporosis.

>>There is indeed a role for nutrients to offset and manage many chronic
>>diseases. And their may be better agents in the botanical
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>chemists have mucked about to get rid of some of the side-effects and
>increase the effects we want.

Whoa. Hold on there a second.  You've conflated a number of issues.
First, yes, anything that works can be used. However, many things that
work are not prescribed as routinely as a drug. This is partly because
data are lacking that compare the two types of interventions.

Yes, indeed, much of the pharmaceutical drug industry arises from
products found in nature. And about 25% are still directly derived
from plant or other sources rather than being synthesized.

However, I think more often than not the isolation of specific
chemical agents from a botanical stew of chemicals often INCREASES the
risk of toxicities and side effects. This has been seen time and time
again. It also tends to enhance efficacy. If the balance between the
two are right against the risk of the condition being treated, then
you've got a great drug. With Vioxx, the risks outweighed the
benefits.

>>and
>>then some company can't decide to screw people to death to take every
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>probably does nothing special for me, my drug of choice is diclofenac.
>Naprosyn actually does do nothing for me -- I've tried it.

That's fine. But there are a range of alternative botanical
interventions that may be of benefit. Do you know about them? Have you
tried them?

No question that living in the US has had a deleterious effect on my
view of the drug INDUSTRY. That is not the same as my view on drugs
which I look at as--whatever works best. I don't really give a darn.
But having no health insurance, my options are much more restricted.

>>Sigh No easy answers. But the idiotic polemic that posits "natural"
>>VERSUS "pharmaceutical" doesn't do any of us with chronic diseases any
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>number of different "me too" drugs out there only adds to confusion
>and increased costs.

I'm with you on increased public funding for research!

Here are a couple fascinating reviews of willow bark:
http://www.herbalgram.org/youngliving/expandedcommissione/he102.asp

http://www.mcp.edu/herbal/willowbark/willow.pdf

another shows few side effects are likely:
http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/DVH/HerbsSideEffects/0,3925,4111|White%2BWillow,00.html

as to prostaglandin synthesis inhibitors--they exist in abundance in
nature. Why do we need to wait for a drug, with possible hidden
toxicities because they impair sales, at great cost when they're
already there?

A few points:
a) diet and mineral intake are irrelevant is simply false;
b) exercise is an important concomitant to care is true
c) agents exist that may help ameliorate disease.

The point c means ANY agents. Drugs. Botanicals. Massage. It is to our
benefit to have these evaluated in a reasonable fashion that assesses
risks, benefits (and extent of benefit) as well as costs.

But our current system--and it DOES impact people globally--of
patenting medicines results in runaway pricing, horrible trade deals
and twisting of science and data to suit business ends, not health
needs. This system is incredibly distorted.

Unfortunately, I fear that Australia will soon be emulating the horror
of that system between the evil US Trade Representative Zoellick,
minion of the psycho right wing extremist Bush administration, and
your horrible prime minister.

        George M. Carter
tcomeau - 10 Nov 2004 15:48 GMT
> > "Robert" <RobertJ@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>  news:<10p0umthfbddv37@corp.supernews.com>...
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> People on these medications have run out of alternatives and you mention
> none. Post on Sci.med.pharmacy troll.

Good nutrition is the alternative.

Like I said, if everything needs to be explained to you, you don't
belong in this newsgroup. Ya f.cking trollish moron. Now shut the f.ck
up.

TC
Robert - 10 Nov 2004 19:13 GMT
> > > "Robert" <RobertJ@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >  news:<10p0umthfbddv37@corp.supernews.com>...
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
>
> TC

Nobody responds to your trolling posts except me because they know that you
are a troll.
tcomeau - 11 Nov 2004 18:18 GMT
> > "Robert" <RobertJ@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>  news:<10p24952hkd0p34@corp.supernews.com>...
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
> Nobody responds to your trolling posts except me because they know that you
> are a troll.

WHAT PART OF f.ck OFF DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND.

f.ck OFF
Dunne E. Dawe - 14 Nov 2004 04:48 GMT
>> > "Robert" <RobertJ@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>  news:<10p0umthfbddv37@corp.supernews.com>...
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
>Good nutrition is the alternative.

For the many sports injuries that occur? Not to mention the traffic
accidents?

>Like I said, if everything needs to be explained to you, you don't
>belong in this newsgroup. Ya f.cking trollish moron. Now shut the f.ck
>up.

Good response  :-)
tcomeau - 15 Nov 2004 14:59 GMT
> >> > "Robert" <RobertJ@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>  news:<10p0umthfbddv37@corp.supernews.com>...
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
> For the many sports injuries that occur? Not to mention the traffic
> accidents?

Are you saying that arthitis is CAUSED by sports injuries or traffic accidents?

TC
Dunne E. Dawe - 16 Nov 2004 02:38 GMT
>> >Good nutrition is the alternative.
>>
>> For the many sports injuries that occur? Not to mention the traffic
>> accidents?
>
>Are you saying that arthitis is CAUSED by sports injuries or traffic accidents?

Yes, some is, but Vioxx is used by these people anyway. Even for
postoperative pain.  Oh and dysmenorrhea.
It is an anti-inflamatory analgesic drug.
tcomeau - 16 Nov 2004 14:40 GMT
> >> >Good nutrition is the alternative.
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> postoperative pain.  Oh and dysmenorrhea.
> It is an anti-inflamatory analgesic drug.

How exactly is arthritis caused by sports injuries or traffic
acidents, and do you have any real science to back up this assertion?

TC
Dunne E. Dawe - 14 Nov 2004 04:00 GMT
>> > "Robert" <RobertJ@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>  news:<10ovgnjhgn2oe1d@corp.supernews.com>...
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>the  reasonable alternatives to these useless drugs is just plain good
>nutrition.

What do you think Vioxx is taken for? Are you one of those who thinks
nutrition is respnsible for everything?

>Hint: if you nead someone to explain things to you on an ongoing
>basis, then you don't belong here, it is way above your ability to
>function intellectually. Now, f.ck off ya troll.

That's a little rich, tcomeau. A little humility would be in order
from you, don't you think? Considering all the problems understanding
energy that folks are having to help you with?
 
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