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Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / September 2004Advice requested on taking amino acids
I plan soon to add taurine to my nutritional supplement regimen. If, given the daily shortage of empty stomachs, I were forced to take it with another amino acid, which would it be better to take it with: NAC, acetyl-l-carnitine, or arginine? Or does it matter? In general, if amino acids are paired in this way, and taken at the same time, will one interfere with the effectiveness of the other(s)? Many thanks, Dan L. > I plan soon to add taurine to my nutritional supplement regimen. If, > given the daily shortage of empty stomachs, I were forced to take it > with another amino acid, which would it be better to take it with: > NAC, acetyl-l-carnitine, or arginine? Or does it matter? In general, > if amino acids are paired in this way, and taken at the same time, > will one interfere with the effectiveness of the other(s)? The following article addresses the use of taurine alone versus taking it inconjunction with NAC in diabetics. Taurine in fish may be the way to go. "The findings that emerged from our study support the hypothesis that glomerular damage in diabetes can be prevented or at least attenuated by supplementation with specific antioxidants. Treatment with oxerutin and combined treatment with NAC plus taurine gave the most encouraging results, whereas the results of taurine-only treatment were either negligible or negative and therefore suggest caution in the use of this molecule in single-drug treatment courses." Source: Comparative Trial of N-Acetyl-Cysteine, Taurine, and Oxerutin on Skin and Kidney Damage in Long-Term Experimental Diabetes http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/full/52/2/499 Frank > I plan soon to add taurine to my nutritional supplement regimen. If, > given the daily shortage of empty stomachs, I were forced to take it [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Dan L. Why don't you just eat good healthy natural meats? Duh.... TC "tcomeau" <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote in message > Why don't you just eat good healthy natural meats? Duh.... And die naturally, like all good healthy humans? Duh... Cheers, Michael C Price ---------------------------------------- http://mcp.longevity-report.com http://www.hedweb.com/manworld.htm > > I plan soon to add taurine to my nutritional supplement regimen. If, > > given the daily shortage of empty stomachs, I were forced to take it [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > TC Do you really have to ask such a stupid question? > > > I plan soon to add taurine to my nutritional supplement regimen. If, > > > given the daily shortage of empty stomachs, I were forced to take it [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Do you really have to ask such a stupid question? Obviously I do. Eating manufactured crap and supplements and avoiding what has been man's evolutionary source of nutrition, ie. real natural meats, is not going to lead to longer life. TC "tcomeau" <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>> Why don't you just eat good healthy natural meats? Duh.... >>> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > avoiding what has been man's evolutionary source of nutrition, ie. > real natural meats, is not going to lead to longer life. Evidence please. See http://mcp.longevity-report.com for a contrary viewpoint. Cheers, Michael C Price ---------------------------------------- http://mcp.longevity-report.com http://www.hedweb.com/manworld.htm > "tcomeau" <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote in message > >>> Why don't you just eat good healthy natural meats? Duh.... [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Evidence please. Common sense. No man-made or man-refined or man-altered or man-purified substance or collections of such substances can replace all of the macro and micro nutrients (including the various proteins) that are provided by consuming healthy animals from healthy environments. Man is an omnivore, which includes a good proportion of healthy animal products in the diet. Man's optimum diet must include animal products. TC "tcomeau" <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>> Obviously I do. Eating manufactured crap and supplements and >>> avoiding what has been man's evolutionary source of nutrition, ie. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > animal products in the diet. Man's optimum diet must include animal > products. Evolution attempts to optimise us with respect to our environment; it does not optimise our environment to support us. In particular there is no reason to think that the levels of minerals and B-vitamins in our diet is optimal. See my longer response on this point elsewhere on this thread. Cheers, Michael C Price ---------------------------------------- http://mcp.longevity-report.com http://www.hedweb.com/manworld.htm > > "tcomeau" <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > >>> Why don't you just eat good healthy natural meats? Duh.... [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > that are provided by consuming healthy animals from healthy > environments. "Common sense is not Good Sense and Good Sense is not common." A molecule is a molecule, it doesn't have a label on it saying natural or unnatural. Personally, I believe I benefit from the use of l-carnitine supplement at the rate of 4 grams per day taken at bed time. Even if I lived solely on beef I won't get that much l-carnitine. By way as long as the molecule is the natural stereoisomer, the biochemistry is "natural". > Man is an omnivore, which includes a good proportion of healthy animal > products in the diet. Man's optimum diet must include animal products. In that most of us agree with you. > TC > > "Michael C Price" <michaelEXCISESPAMprice@ntlworld.com> wrote in message > news:<ocD1d.242$ij5.171@newsfe6-win.ntli.net>... [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > the molecule is the natural stereoisomer, the biochemistry > is "natural". How do you know that the L-carnitine in that quantity is not interfering with the use or absorption of other similar but just-as-important nutrients? How do you know that you are not creating a nutritient imbalance as a result? How do you know that this is an optimum amount and not too little or too much? How do you know that the refined form of L-carnitine is actually usable by the body? How do you know if the body needs other nutrients to metabolize and use the L-c in its entirety? And where would these nutrients needed to metabolise L-c be coming from. How do you know if the body is or is not depleting itself of other nutrients in order to be able to metabolise the L-c? The human body has historically gotten its nutrition from extremely complex foods that contains a vast number of various nutritional components in large and small amounts. We have only barely scratched the surface in our knowledge and understanding of the importance of these nutrients. There are nutrients that we aren't even aware of either their existence or how they are used. We are still very much guessing at all of it. Hell, we don't even know how to control our own weight, for the most part. We are still very ignorant of the many many various nutrients available and how the body uses them. To take one substance, refined it and consume it in large quantities in the expectation that it, by itself, will lead to a magical life extension is very naive. It is also pretty damned arrogant to think that we can do an end run on millions of years of evolution with such a silly and simplistic approach to nutrition. It is patently silly to believe that such a pie-eyed single-factor sledge-hammer approach to nutrition is somehow going to give us a magic bullet to extend our lives even a little bit. For all you know, you may be doing the exact opposite. And some guy in a white lab coat telling me that L-c is conducive to long life is not at all what I would call convincing. My guess is that he's selling snake oil and wants to make a few bucks off of you. BTW, how much is the L-c costing you? TC <snip "tcomeau" <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>>>>>> Why don't you just eat good healthy natural meats? Duh.... >>>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >>> >>> Common sense. Evidence is more persuasive than notions of "common sense". [37a] Age-associated mitochondrial oxidative decay: improvement of carnitine acetyltransferase substrate-binding affinity and activity in brain by feeding old rats acetyl-L- carnitine and/or R-alpha -lipoic acid. Liu J, Killilea DW, Ames BN in Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 2002 Feb 19;99(4):1876-81 PMID: 11854488 [37b] Memory loss in old rats is associated with brain mitochondrial decay and RNA/DNA oxidation: partial reversal by feeding acetyl-L-carnitine and/or R-alpha -lipoic acid. Liu J, Head E, Gharib AM, Yuan W, Ingersoll RT, Hagen TM, Cotman CW, Ames BN in Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2002 Feb 19;99(4):2356-61. PMID: 11854529 "Dietary administration of ALCAR and/or LA significantly reduced the extent of oxidized RNA, the combination being the most effective. Electron microscopic studies in the hippocampus showed that ALCAR and/or LA reversed age-associated mitochondrial structural decay." "Morris water maze test in relation to age and treatment. (A) Time on day 4 taken to find the hidden platform. (B) Time spent at the former platform position in the transfer test. (C) Time to find the visible platform. Data are mean ? SEM of 9 rats in young and old, 5 in LA (0.1%), and 6 in ALCAR (0.2%) and ALCAR + LA groups. Higher doses, 0.2% LA and/or 0.5% ALCAR, showed similar results (data not shown)." Human equivalent: Carnitine:2 - 5 gm , Lipoic acid: 1 - 2gm [37c] Feeding acetyl-L-carnitine and lipoic acid to old rats significantly improves metabolic function while decreasing oxidative stress. Hagen TM, Liu J, Lykkesfeldt J, Wehr CM, Ingersoll RT, Vinarsky V, Bartholomew JC, Ames BN in Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2002 Feb 19;99(4):1870-5. PMID: 11854487 "Feeding ALCAR [ALCAR, 1.5% (wt/vol) in the drinking water] in combination with LA[ 0.5% (wt/wt) in the chow] increased metabolism and lowered oxidative stress more than either compound alone." Human equivalent: Carnitine:15gm? , Lipoic acid: 5gm [37d] Acylcarnitine profile in tissues and body fluids of biotin-deficient rats with and without L-carnitine supplementation. Shigematsu Y, Bykov IL, Liu YY, Nakai A, Kikawa Y, Sudo M, Fujioka M in J Inherit Metab Dis 1994;17(6):678-90 PMID: 7707691 [37e] Acetyl-1-carnitine. 1: Effects on mortality, pathology and sensory-motor performance in aging rats. Markowska AL, Ingram DK, Barnes CA, Spangler EL, Lemken VJ, Kametani H, Yee W, Olton DS in Neurobiol Aging 1990 Sep-Oct;11(5):491-8 PMID: 2234279 "AC, 75 mg/kg/day, beginning at 16 months. [..] AC decreased mortality, and had no reliable effect on body weight, fluid intake, or the general health of the rats. These data indicate that a chronic dose of AC does not interfere with food and water intake, and may increase longevity." Human equivalent dose: 1.9 gm/d [37f] Reversal of biochemical and behavioral parameters of brain aging by melatonin and acetyl L-carnitine. Sharman EH, Vaziri ND, Ni Z, Sharman KG, Bondy SC in Brain Res. 2002 Dec 13;957(2):223-30. PMID: 12445964 "The cerebral cortex of 27-month-old male B6C3F1 mice had elevated levels of nitric oxide synthase 1 (EC 1.14.13.39) (nNOS) and peptide nitrotyrosine relative to cortices of younger (4-month-old) animals. After 25-month-old mice received basal diet together with 300 mg/l acetyl L-carnitine in the drinking water for 8 weeks, these levels were fully restored to those found in younger animals. A partial restoration was found when old animals received basal diet supplemented with 200 ppm melatonin in the diet. [.] Dietary supplementation with melatonin or acetyl L-carnitine partially reversed [behavioural] changes. These findings suggest that dietary supplementation cannot merely arrest but indeed reverse some age-related increases in markers of oxidative and inflammatory events occurring with the cortex." [98a] Alpha-lipoic acid as a new treatment option for Azheimer type dementia. Hager K, Marahrens A, Kenklies M, Riederer P, Munch G in Arch Gerontol Geriatr 2001 Jun;32(3):275-282 PMID: 11395173 "600 mg alpha-lipoic acid was given daily to nine patients with AD and related dementias [.] The treatment led to a stabilization of cognitive functions in the study group" [98b] l-Carnitine and dl-alpha-lipoic acid reverse the age-related deficit in glutathione redox state in skeletal muscle and heart tissues. Kumaran S, Savitha S, Anusuya Devi M, Panneerselvam C in Mech Ageing Dev. 2004 Jul;125(7):507-12. PMID: 15246746 "GSH levels were significantly lowered in aged rats than young rats. Conversely, GSSG levels were significantly high in aged rats. GSH/GSSG molar ratio and redox index were found to decreased in aged rats. The activities of GPx, GR, and G6PDH were found to be decreased in aged rats when compared with young rats. Supplementation of carnitine [300 mg/(kg body weight day] and lipoic acid [100 mg/kg body weight] to aged rats significantly increased the GSH levels [...] In conclusion, our study suggests that supplementation of carnitine and lipoic acid to aged rats improves the glutathione redox system." "l-Carnitine (300 mg/(kg body weight day)) and dl-[alpha]-lipoic acid (100 mg/kg body weight in alkaline saline) was dissolved in 0.89% physiological saline and was administrated orally." Human-equivalence: l-Carnitine: 7.6 gm/d dl-[alpha]-lipoic acid: 2.5 gm/d I've assumed the rats weighed about 400 grams and scaled up by body weight to the power of 0.75 [118d] Modulation of melatonin secretion by acetyl-L-carnitine in adult and old rats. Esposti D, Mariani M, Demartini G, Lucini V, Fraschini F, Mancia M in J Pineal Res 1994 Oct;17(3):132-6 PMID: 7897585 Modification of melatonin synthesis and release by acetyl-L-carnitine (ALC) was studied in adult (2 month old) and old (24-month-old) male Sprague Dawley rats. When ALC was injected at 1500 into adult rats at doses of 10, 30, or 90 mg/kg, there was a remarkable increase in their pineal and serum melatonin 1 hr later. However, using the same experimental protocol acute ALC administration in old rats did not modify pineal and serum melatonin levels. ALC administered in the same dose range induced a significant increase in pineal and serum melatonin in adult rats treated at 0100 h following exposure of 30 min to bright, white light to suppress endogenous melatonin. In the same conditions, in old rats, only the higher dose (90 mg/kg) caused any noteworthy increase in melatonin pineal content while lower doses were uneffective both on serum and pineal melatonin levels. It is known that ALC affects fatty acid transport in the cells, modulates CoA, modifies neuronal transmission and reduces lipofuscin accumulation which is related to lipid peroxidation. The action of ALC on melatonin synthesis could be the result of a modulation of the neuronal transmission related to circadian pineal endocrine activity. Moreover, since both ALC and melatonin exert remarkable scavenger activity, it is possible to suppose that ALC effects in reversing certain aging processing may be due to its ability to promote melatonin production. >>> No man-made or man-refined or man-altered or >>> man-purified substance or collections of such substances can replace [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > know if the body is or is not depleting itself of other nutrients in > order to be able to metabolise the L-c? By the same criteria, how do you know the "natural" diet is better than anything else? > The human body has historically gotten its nutrition from extremely > complex foods that contains a vast number of various nutritional [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > he's selling snake oil and wants to make a few bucks off of you. BTW, > how much is the L-c costing you? You sound pretty sure of yourself, despite guessing. Carnitine extends lifespan and improves biomarkers of aging in animals, as the above cited studies show. Cheers, Michael C Price ---------------------------------------- http://mcp.longevity-report.com http://www.hedweb.com/manworld.htm > > > "Michael C Price" <michaelEXCISESPAMprice@ntlworld.com> wrote in message > news:<ocD1d.242$ij5.171@newsfe6-win.ntli.net>... [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] > > <snip> You've degenerated into throwing wild caricatures around. No one who takes the time to read the typically challenging discussions in this newsgroup is likely to be as unidimensional and naive as you assume. Dan L. Do you speak English too? > You've degenerated into throwing wild caricatures around. No one who > takes the time to read the typically challenging discussions in this > newsgroup is likely to be as unidimensional and naive as you assume. > > Dan L. > > > "Michael C Price" <michaelEXCISESPAMprice@ntlworld.com> wrote in message > > news:<ocD1d.242$ij5.171@newsfe6-win.ntli.net>... [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > interfering with the use or absorption of other similar but > just-as-important nutrients? That is easy. I take it at bed time on an empty stomach. > How do you know that you are not creating > a nutritient imbalance as a result? Both research on animals and humans from diverse sources of research has shown the substance to be benefical. Read Micheal Price's parallel posting. > How do you know that this is an > optimum amount and not too little or too much? same response > How do you know that > the refined form of L-carnitine is actually usable by the body? Do you realise how lame this comment is? You are starting to sound like Mooshe. > How do > you know if the body needs other nutrients to metabolize and use the > L-c in its entirety? How do you know? that I don't take other nutrients such as thiotic acid, B vitamins, brewers yeast. Have you ever picked up a biochemistry text? Have you ever studied the cellular metabolic pathways? Do you know what l-carnitine does? > And where would these nutrients needed to > metabolise L-c be coming from. How do you know if the body is or is [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > guessing at all of it. Hell, we don't even know how to control our own > weight, for the most part. Don't you mean others ;-) ? > We are still very ignorant of the many many various nutrients > available and how the body uses them. To take one substance, refined [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > going to give us a magic bullet to extend our lives even a little bit. > For all you know, you may be doing the exact opposite. You assume a lot. > And some guy in a white lab coat telling me that L-c is conducive to > long life is not at all what I would call convincing. My guess is that > he's selling snake oil and wants to make a few bucks off of you. BTW, > how much is the L-c costing you? How much does your high beef diet cost you? Pasta is a cheaper dish. Cost is a side issue. Anyway, the comparison isn't between food and the amino acids but rather between amino acid use and the use of some drug or drugs which are generally much costlier than an AAs. Don't you know the drug companies are trying to capture the use of AAs under the patent system because it is seen as an effective treatment modality which can be milked for profits? Or conversely a competing modality to the patent drugs of the MDs and big pharma. Indeed, in many nations this capture has already taken place by governments making AA's prescription items or effective banning them. All this is a side issue and a distraction for the purposes of the first posting. You are using very loaded language rather than being objective. Your discussion in this thread is fully devoid any references to the science. > TC > > <snip Some do not understand how the digestion works with amino acids or whole proteins. > > "no name" <none@notanadress.com> wrote in message > news:<W96dnRRxN7vMktXcRVn-ug@netaxcess.com>... [quoted text clipped - 125 lines] > > > > <snip > The human body has historically gotten its nutrition from extremely > complex foods that contains a vast number of various nutritional > components in large and small amounts. We have only barely scratched > the surface in our knowledge and understanding of the importance of > these nutrients. Why are you assuming the importance of these nutrients is in the direction of extending the life span and not decreasing it? > It is also pretty damned arrogant to think that we can do an end run > on millions of years of evolution with such a silly and simplistic > approach to nutrition. It has been demonstrated in mice experiments that young mice on very unbalanced unnatural diets live longer and escape common e.g. obesity-related diseases once they grow up. How do explain that? What's arrogant is to think humans are any different. Millions of years of evolution optimized survival and reproduction around the time the adulthood is reached, not longevity. Once an individual is post-reproductive age, it makes perfect evolutionary sense to get rid of him. DZ "tcomeau" <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote in message > Obviously I do. Eating manufactured crap and supplements > and avoiding what has been man's evolutionary source of > nutrition, ie. real natural meats, is not going to lead to longer > life. I presume you think evolution supports this position, but it does not. Here's something I wrote earlier: Natural Diet is not Optimal The switch from a hunter-gather diet (nuts, berries, wild game, roots) to one based on agriculture, about 7000 years ago in the Middle East, was accompanied by a drop in average height of up to 6 inches (only regained in the West during the 20th Century28a); a compelling sign that the reduced food diversity that accompanies agricultural abundance resulted in widespread chronic malnourishment. What about modern diets, are they optimally healthy? Supplying more than the RDA of many micronutrients to already healthy people further improves their health, as demonstrated by many placebo-controlled trials47-61 and epidemiological studies11-14, a view finally endorsed in a JAMA review82. This demonstrates that our modern diet, although superior to any since hunter-gatherer days, still borders on malnourishment. What about the pre-agricultural-farming Palaeolithic hunter-gatherer diet, perhaps that diet (nuts, berries, wild game, roots) was optimal? That we have deviated from this 'natural' diet is beyond dispute. If only, the myth says, we would eat like cavemen, we would be much healthier. The belief that the 'natural' diet is optimal seems to arise from a misunderstanding of evolution. The argument runs thus: we have evolved to optimise the metabolising of dietary micronutrients; therefore the amounts of various micronutrients in our natural diet must be optimal. This is a simply faulty logic - the conclusion (amounts of various micronutrients in our diet must be optimal) doesn't follow from the premise (we have evolved to optimise the metabolising of dietary micronutrients). That we have evolved to optimise our gathering and processing of micronutrients does *not* imply that the levels of micronutrients in our diet (modern and Palaeolithic) are optimal. Especially nowadays that we can just buy such micronutrients with very little associated downside risk. I no longer have to kill (and risk being killed by) a woolly mammoth to get my vitamin B12, for instance. This is an elementary error of logic that evolutionary biologists and nutritionists continue to make. The same illogic applies to macronutrients, where it is easier to demonstrate this fallacy. Water is a macronutrient, which our thirst mechanism fails to regulate optimally, leaving us marginally, chronically dehydrated76. For our savannah ancestors paying a visit to the watering hole was an expensive, time-consuming and risky activity due to increased exposure to waterhole predation, water-borne parasites and diseases; under these circumstances partial dehydration is a worthwhile trade-off. Our thirst mechanism is not adjusted, in the evolutionary sense, to the availability of clean, cheap water in the modern world; drinking more water than we naturally feel inclined to may be beneficial to our health75. The same is true for feeding. Feeding, for most of our evolutionary history, has been an expensive, risky activity, involving a number of trade-offs, forcing a compromise with marginal malnutrition. Herbivores face increased predation whilst grazing and carnivores risk injury whilst hunting, for example. This makes feeding a risky activity. Feeding halts when the marginal benefit of the extra calories is outweighed by the associated foraging risks; marginal malnourishment, due to inadequate amounts of some or all micronutrients in the diet, will not necessarily generate a feeling of hunger. For context see http://mcp.longevity-report.com Cheers, Michael C Price ---------------------------------------- http://mcp.longevity-report.com http://www.hedweb.com/manworld.htm > "tcomeau" <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > diet, although superior to any since hunter-gatherer days, still borders on > malnourishment. SB Eaton estimates that primitive man's intakes of many vitamins and minerals were 2-8x higher than those of modern man. Ref: Eaton SB, Eaton SB 3rd, Konner MJ. Paleolithic nutrition revisited: a twelve-year retrospective on its nature and implications. Eur J Clin Nutr. 1997 Apr;51(4):207-16. Review. PMID: 9104571 That is not to say we must or should incorporate more animal source foods in order to exceed RDAs by factors of 2-8, or whatever the optimal levels might be. From: Nutrition Bulletin Volume 25 Issue 1 Page 43 - March 2000 Paleolithic diets: a sceptical view Marion Nestle http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi/10.1046/j.1467-3010.2000.00019.x/abs/ "Knowledge of the relative proportions of animal and plant foods in the diets of early humans is circumstantial, incomplete, and debatable and there are insufficient data to identify the composition of a genetically-determined optimal diet. The evidence related to Paleolithic diets is best interpreted as supporting the idea that diets based largely on plant foods promote health and longevity, at least under conditions of food abundance and physical activity." Paleoman's estimated intake of 100+ grams of fiber from plant foods is probably a good idea to put into practice. [Arch Intern Med. 2004 Feb 23;164(4):370-6. PMID: 14980987] "acard" <acard@dev.net> wrote in message >> "tcomeau" <tunderbar@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Eur J Clin Nutr. 1997 Apr;51(4):207-16. Review. > PMID: 9104571 Damn, "no abstract available"! > That is not to say we must or should incorporate more animal source > foods in order to exceed RDAs by factors of 2-8, or whatever the > optimal levels might be. True, looking at a Paleoluithic diet on its own can never imply more than that, but even 2-8x elevation of nutrition levels would be a very good start. Cheers, Michael C Price ---------------------------------------- http://mcp.longevity-report.com http://www.hedweb.com/manworld.htm >"acard" <acard@dev.net> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > >Damn, "no abstract available"! Comparison of dietary assessment methods in a Southern French population: use of weighed records, estimated-diet records and a food-frequency questionnaire C Bonifacj1, M Gerber2, J Scali2 and J P Daures3 Objective: The main objective of the study was to develop appropriate dietary assessment instruments for the French Mediterranean region and to validate the measurements they provide. Subjects and Methods: Three different assessment methods were submitted to a sample of 150 male and female volunteers. 98 completed the protocol, which consisted of a 4 d weighed dietary record (PETRA) and a 7 d estimated-diet record (S7) based on a check list and a set of photographs, both these records being completed once in each season of the year, and a semi-quantitative (standard portion) food-frequency questionnaire (FFQ) including questions eliciting socio-demographic and anthropometric data, which was completed once only. The days when PETRA was used to evaluate food consumption coincided with the first 4 d of S7 (S4). Results: Validation was based on nutrients and foods. Energy-adjusted Pearson correlation coefficients between S4 and PETRA ranged from 0.32 for vitamin E to 0.81 for vitamin C (mean: 0.65 for 21 nutrients). There was practically no misclassification in opposite extreme quartiles. Spearman correlation coefficients ranged from 0.63 for fish and sea-food to 0.90 for wine (mean: 0.76 for 16 food groups). There was practically no misclassification in opposite extreme quartiles. De-attenuated energy-adjusted Pearson correlation coefficients between FFQ and S7 ranged from 0.22 for proteins and monounsaturated fatty acids to 0.80 for iron (mean: 0.45). 10% or less of subjects were misclassified in opposite extreme quartiles (except for vitamin C, 12%). Spearman correlation coefficients ranged from 0.25 for green-yellow-red raw vegetables to 0.76 for wine (mean: 0.42). 8% or less of subjects were misclassified in opposite extreme quartiles (except for citrus fruit, 11%). Conclusions: Portion estimation using the set of photographs was validated by the correlation between S4 and PETRA for both nutrients and foods. The FFQ provides a reasonably reliable measure of macronutrient intake and a good measure of micronutrient intake when compared with the data in the literature. It performs less well for food intake. Better results can be achieved for FFQ: (i) by using the set of photographs instead of standard portions and (ii) by adding further questions on foods which are insufficiently covered. > > > > I plan soon to add taurine to my nutritional supplement regimen. If, > > > > given the daily shortage of empty stomachs, I were forced to take it [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > TC Conflating "manufactured crap" with supplements is going to lead your thinking into all sorts of convoluted directions. You're not going to get, say, SAM-e or acetyl-l-carnitine from "good healthy natural meats;" if you believe (and there is good reason to believe) that in certain circumstances such things can prolong your life, and/or improve the quality of your life, you have to supplement with them. Moreover, I never said that I was "avoiding...real natural meats." I just avoid eating them at the same time as I take amino acids. Dan L. >> > Why don't you just eat good healthy natural meats? Duh.... >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > what has been man's evolutionary source of nutrition, ie. real natural > meats, is not going to lead to longer life. Mother Nature with its evolutionary sources of nutrition couldn't give a rats a.s about longevity of individuals, only survival of the species matter. Reproduce and clear the space for the next generation. Extremely unnatural diets prolong life in experiments on non-human species. DZ "DZ" wrote in message >>> > Why don't you just eat good healthy natural meats? Duh.... >>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > give a rats a.s about longevity of individuals, only survival of the > species matter. Nor does she give a tinker's toss about the longevity of species; it's all about the survival of individual genes. See Dawkins and "The Selfish Gene". > Reproduce and clear the space for the next generation. See above. > Extremely unnatural diets prolong life in experiments on > non-human species. Precisely. Cheers, Michael C Price ---------------------------------------- http://mcp.longevity-report.com http://www.hedweb.com/manworld.htm > "DZ" wrote in message >>>> > Why don't you just eat good healthy natural meats? Duh.... [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > it's all about the survival of individual genes. > See Dawkins and "The Selfish Gene". I'll agree with that. Mother Nature couldn't give a rats a.s about longevity, period. DZ >> Reproduce and clear the space for the next generation. > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > http://mcp.longevity-report.com > http://www.hedweb.com/manworld.htm > I plan soon to add taurine to my nutritional supplement regimen. If, > given the daily shortage of empty stomachs, I were forced to take it [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Dan L. Since the thread has completely veered off from your original question, I will attempt to bring it back on track. Here are some questions that are relevant to any decision about whether there are "competitive" effects between amino acids and/or with food: 1) Is the amino acid in question a protein forming one? Ie. Is it one of the 20 amino acids for which the DNA codes and the expressed RNA uses as the raw material to construct proteins? 2) Is the purpose of taking the amino acid in question for protein building or for some other purpose such as neurotransmitter production? 3) Is the amino acid in question an essential one or an inessential one? Remember that "inessential" means that it can be made by the body from others, even thought this may not be optimally done under all conditions and therefore, supplementation may still be beneficial. 4) Is the amino acid in question a variant of a protein forming amino acid that may require modification by the body before use? 5) What method does the amino acid used for transport across cell membranes or the blood brain barrier (depending on where it is desired to go)? The answer for many amino acids can be found in advanced texts. Among commonly taken amino acids carnosine, taurine, carnitine and choline are not protein forming amino acids. N-acetyl cysteine and acetyl-l-carnitine are variants of protein forming and non-protein forming amino acids respectively. To get back to your original question, the general rule is that non-protein forming amino acids do not compete with other things and can be taken with or without food. I know of no evidence that this is not true for taurine. Since taurine absorption is facilitated by the beta-amino acid transport system which also transports beta-alanine and gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) it might be wise not to take it when also taking large amounts of those chemicals. Taurine blood concentration is regulated by the kidneys which excrete more and reabsorb less if concentration is high. --Paul Wakfer MoreLife for the rational - http://morelife.org Reality based tools for more life in quantity and quality The Self-Sovereign Individual Project - http://selfsip.org Rational freedom by self-sovereignty & social contracting Thank you, Paul. > > I plan soon to add taurine to my nutritional supplement regimen. If, > > given the daily shortage of empty stomachs, I were forced to take it [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > The Self-Sovereign Individual Project - http://selfsip.org > Rational freedom by self-sovereignty & social contracting Thank you, Paul. > > I plan soon to add taurine to my nutritional supplement regimen. If, > > given the daily shortage of empty stomachs, I were forced to take it [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > The Self-Sovereign Individual Project - http://selfsip.org > Rational freedom by self-sovereignty & social contracting Many thanks, Paul. It's great to see you back on-line. Dan L. > > I plan soon to add taurine to my nutritional supplement regimen. If, > > given the daily shortage of empty stomachs, I were forced to take it [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > The Self-Sovereign Individual Project - http://selfsip.org > Rational freedom by self-sovereignty & social contracting |
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