Are Patients Married (to Statins) for Life?

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MikeV - 04 Sep 2004 15:22 GMT

Bill Clinton's pre-coronary bypass interview with Larry King
yesterday revealed that Bill had not only lost weight, but had
lowered his cholesterol with medication, (but then quit) when his
cholesterol fell. This brought a question to mind:
Does anyone have references which confirm or refute the notion of
statin withdrawal rebound effects on risk?

http://www.lipidsonline.org/commentaries/al_abstract.cfm?abs_id=Abs030

MikeV

Note: In case anyone is interested, I need *no* statins or other
meds. My my formerly high lipid stats have been well controlled by a
varied controlled carb ad-lib diet for about 12 years. Age 68.
Exercise: mild. Weight: Stable. Other members of my family are not
so lucky.

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Robert - 04 Sep 2004 19:00 GMT

> Bill Clinton's pre-coronary bypass interview with Larry King
> yesterday revealed that Bill had not only lost weight, but had
> lowered his cholesterol with medication, (but then quit) when his
> cholesterol fell. This brought a question to mind:
> Does anyone have references which confirm or refute the notion of
> statin withdrawal rebound effects on risk?

Family history is important along with lipid profile. He has a family
history so lipids become more important as a high risk factor.
Having bypass surgery does not stop artery blockage after surgery. In other
words a clean vein becomes clogged pretty rapidly within a year or so and
meds are needed to save it.

> http://www.lipidsonline.org/commentaries/al_abstract.cfm?abs_id=Abs030
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Exercise: mild. Weight: Stable. Other members of my family are not
> so lucky.

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MikeV - 04 Sep 2004 19:37 GMT

>> Bill Clinton's pre-coronary bypass interview with Larry King
>> yesterday revealed that Bill had not only lost weight, but had
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>> not
>> so lucky.

Most of that is pretty well accepted. My interest was in the rebound
question.
Have you ever come across the idea that quitting statins can
actually put some people at greater risk than would have occurred
without ever taking them?
The abstract suggests that risk does not exceed the original level,
but I believe some may disagree.
http://www.lipidsonline.org/commentaries/al_abstract.cfm?abs_id=Abs030MikeV

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Wolfbrother - 04 Sep 2004 21:54 GMT

> Bill Clinton's pre-coronary bypass interview with Larry King
> yesterday revealed that Bill had not only lost weight, but had
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> Exercise: mild. Weight: Stable. Other members of my family are not
> so lucky.

This is great. I love the parade of people on talk news shows talking
about how they are either shocked that such a "healthy" person could
end up like this or that they are not surprised because they have seen
so many "healthy" people end up like this. they are in "perfect"
health(yeah right) "doing everything right" (yeah everything the
mainstream considers right which is pretty much wrong) and yet they
have heart disease in their 50s. What is their excuse every time.
Thats right it must be genetic!! LOL. What a sad joke. Gotta love
the mainstream media with all its distortions, propaganda, and
outright wrong information about human health courtesy of the medical
establishment. They will never tell you the simple truth that HEALTHY
PEOPLE DO NOT GET HEART DISEASE!!. People who are "doing everything
right" DO NOT GET HEART DISEASE!! Heart disease is not "normal" or
"genetic". What a sad and pathetic state of lies and
disinformation(on so many levels) modern human society is in today.

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Lictor - 04 Sep 2004 23:05 GMT

> They will never tell you the simple truth that HEALTHY
> PEOPLE DO NOT GET HEART DISEASE!!. People who are "doing everything
> right" DO NOT GET HEART DISEASE!! Heart disease is not "normal" or
> "genetic".

You mean, if one does everything right, one becomes immortal? Because, in
the end, pretty much everyone dies from heart failure, healthy or not.

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Wolfbrother - 05 Sep 2004 06:00 GMT

> > They will never tell you the simple truth that HEALTHY
> > PEOPLE DO NOT GET HEART DISEASE!!. People who are "doing everything
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> You mean, if one does everything right, one becomes immortal? Because, in
> the end, pretty much everyone dies from heart failure, healthy or not.

Ok you are smarter than that. I know you are not trying to compare
heart disease to dying naturally and peacefully in your sleep of "old
age"(as humans are supposed to) with the body basically just shutting
down and heart stopping or "failing", whatever you want to call it.
And since you are too smart to suggest that, what is the point of your
statement? I never suggested immortality but there certainly is a
huge difference from heart disease and natural death from old age.
The disturbing thing is most people confuse the two and think they are
one and the same. That is just false. Heart disease is not a normal
way to die and I hope you were not suggesting that. Perhaps you can
clarify.

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Lictor - 05 Sep 2004 13:16 GMT

> And since you are too smart to suggest that, what is the point of your
> statement?

Just that some people worry way too much, and this leads to excessive
stress. Studies have shown that stress is as much as a risk factor as
cholesterol or high blood presure or obesity. Moreover, stress often
translates into weight gain, higher BP... So, there is a point of
diminishing returns, where worrying about your health and spending a lot of
energy to do the "right" things is only going to reduce your life expectency
because of the added stress. We're all eventually going to die, whether it's
at 80 or 85 is not that important...
The people in my familly who lived past their hundred never really bothered
with what was right to eat (whatever was the cheapest at the market), what
vitamins to take (they took none) or what exams they had to take (they went
to the familly doctor once a year, but took no drugs on a permanent basis).
They had a very stressless life, which probably did them a lot more good
than taking preventive statins for their inexistant hypercholesterolemia or
blood presure drugs for their normal blood presure.

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MikeL - 04 Sep 2004 23:47 GMT

>> Bill Clinton's pre-coronary bypass interview with Larry King
>> yesterday revealed that Bill had not only lost weight, but had
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>"genetic". What a sad and pathetic state of lies and
>disinformation(on so many levels) modern human society is in today.

Some people are predisposed to certain conditions like heart disease,
which means its genetic. There are plenty of 58 year olds who eat as
bad or worse as Clinton and have no heart disease whatsoever.

The fact of the matter is many people can shove anything ito their
mouth and not have any health problems whatsoever. Many people here
by their own postings only started caring about what they eat due to
health problems, weight problems, etc. People who are lucky as far as
the genetic draw can take everything that is discussed here for
granted.

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PlacidBull - 05 Sep 2004 06:08 GMT

I was on statins for quite a while.

I went on a low carb way of eating and lowered my cholesterol readings to
the point I felt I no longer needed the statins.

Then I began reading studies that showed that those who continued to use the
statins over a 10 year period were much better protected against heart
attacks.

So I began taking the statins again as a precautionary measure.

I think the combination of a healthy diet AND continued use of statins is
probably a winning formula.

Placid

>>> Bill Clinton's pre-coronary bypass interview with Larry King
>>> yesterday revealed that Bill had not only lost weight, but had
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> the genetic draw can take everything that is discussed here for
> granted.

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Robert - 05 Sep 2004 07:47 GMT

> >> Bill Clinton's pre-coronary bypass interview with Larry King
> >> yesterday revealed that Bill had not only lost weight, but had
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> the genetic draw can take everything that is discussed here for
> granted.

The said truth is some of these people without heart disease start telling
people what the secret is and they come up with some freaky things like
eating lots of avocado or something.

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Robert - 05 Sep 2004 07:43 GMT

> > Bill Clinton's pre-coronary bypass interview with Larry King
> > yesterday revealed that Bill had not only lost weight, but had
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> have heart disease in their 50s. What is their excuse every time.
> Thats right it must be genetic!! LOL.

What do you call it when a person eats anything he wants and never gets
heart disease. A good diet? LOL. You believe the diet did it? What a fool
you are.

What a sad joke. Gotta love

> the mainstream media with all its distortions, propaganda, and
> outright wrong information about human health courtesy of the medical
> establishment. They will never tell you the simple truth that HEALTHY
> PEOPLE DO NOT GET HEART DISEASE!!.

Does that mean that only people with heart disease get heart disease?
Duhhhhhh. Let me simply it for you. If you have a genetic predisposition to
it and you eat like a pig and don't exercise then you will get it. If you do
not have a genetic predisposition to it then you can eat like a pig then you
will not get it. The only problem is you only find out for sure after the
fact when it does you no good. People try and predict based on blood
patterns and these are called risk factors. If you have these risk factors
then you can not eat like a pig. You can't do anything about genetics so
simply showing that some people eat like pigs and don't have heart disease
does not mean diet is not related.

People who are "doing everything

> right" DO NOT GET HEART DISEASE!! Heart disease is not "normal" or
> "genetic". What a sad and pathetic state of lies and
> disinformation(on so many levels) modern human society is in today.

You never said what "doing everything right" means. Get out of the cave dude
and stop talking idiotic moronic trash about the medical establishment being
wrong and you being right. You have two left feet.

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MikeV - 06 Sep 2004 14:05 GMT

Statins. Be prepared for a lifetime commitment!
Still not clear if the risk of reactive inflammation is greater than
that of never starting.
MikeV
*********

Effect of Withdrawal of Statin on C-Reactive Protein.

Lee KT, Lai WT, Chu CS, Tsai LY, Yen HW, Voon WC, Sheu SH.

Section of Cardiology, Department of Internal Medicine, Kaohsiung
Medical University Hospital, Kaohsiung, Taiwan.

Background: C-reactive protein is considered a risk factor for
coronary artery disease. In addition to its lipid-lowering
properties, statin decreases the level of C-reactive protein. Abrupt
cessation of statin therapy during treatment could increase the
incidence of cardiac events in patients with atherosclerotic heart
disease. The changes of C-reactive protein after withdrawal of
statin therapy are still unknown. Methods: Twenty patients with
hyperlipidemia received statin (atorvastatin, 10 mg/day) therapy for
3 months. The levels of lipid profiles and C-reactive protein were
assessed before receiving the statin therapy, immediately after 3
months of therapy, and on the 3 consecutive days after withdrawal of
statin treatment. Results: After 3 months of statin therapy, the
total cholesterol, low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-chol),
and C-reactive protein were significantly reduced (264.94 +/- 16.23
vs. 183.44 +/- 16.34 mg/dl, 183.17 +/- 34.56 vs. 122.00 +/- 17.66
mg/dl, and 2,309.00 +/- 437.85 vs. 1,257.95 +/- 207.99 ng/ml,
respectively). The level of C-reactive protein increased on the
second day after withdrawal of statin therapy (2,590.14 +/- 1,045.05
vs. 1,257.95 +/- 207.99 ng/ml); however, the total cholesterol and
LDL-chol did not increase during the 3-day period after withdrawal
of statin therapy. Conclusions: The increase in the level of
C-reactive protein after withdrawal of statin therapy may be a
contributing factor to the increased incidence of cardiac events in
patients who have abruptly stopped statin therapy. Copyright 2004 S.
Karger AG, Basel

PMID: 15334028 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

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