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Medical Forum / General / Nutrition / September 2004Junk food and deserts have always been my treat
Going to the bakery is the main source of happiness in my life. I don't know how I can just abandon all my sweets. It leaves a vacuum in my life. I feel like my arms have been cut off. I think I know what it is like to be one of the those starving third world kids you see on tv begging for money. > Going to the bakery is the main source of happiness in my life. I > don't know how I can just abandon all my sweets. It leaves a vacuum in > my life. I feel like my arms have been cut off. I think I know what it > is like to be one of the those starving third world kids you see on > tv begging for money. You don't have to "abandon all your sweets." You just have to avoid pigging out on them. Bakery goods are fine as *treats*; the problem is treating them as *staples*. "X is bad for you; Y is good for you," without any quantification, is a statement of religious belief, not science. >> Going to the bakery is the main source of happiness in my life. >> I [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > any quantification, is a statement of religious belief, not > science. I get the idea, I think . . . Yes, sorta like . . .a little bit of pregnancy, or cocaine is good for your health . . but be SURE not to go "all the way"! :-} MikeV > >> Going to the bakery is the main source of happiness in my life. > >> I [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > MikeV The more junk you eat the more you want. We have been trained since childhood that sweets are how we make ourselves feel good. It is very difficult to unlearn this. I don't have sex or love in my life so when i need something to look forward to. something to reward myself. i guess i will use steak as a reward. when i go hiking, it seems like i can only eat chocolate. i seem to lose my appetite. i hate the idea of going hiking without treats to compensate for the pain. i don't buy the concept that sweets can be part of our diet in moderation. they are too addictive and they ruin your appetite for everything else. they need to be treated like a poison and avoided at all cost. i used to think this kind of thinking was radical and unnecessary. just from the stand point of teeth, simple sugar should be avoided. > The more junk you eat the more you want. That's not always the case. If you watch how other normal people eat, many are able to eat a little junk and be satisfied with it. It's all a matter of conditionning. > We have been trained since childhood that sweets are how we make ourselves feel good. It is very > difficult to unlearn this. Yes, it's difficult, that's why I was suggesting you to seek some help. But it's possible. Most people are not trained that way since childhood. There are plenty of other ways to make yourself feel good - enjoying a walk, listening to some music, reading a good book, falling in love... Something probably went wrong in your childhood that caused food to become your best and only comforter. That's something you will indeed have to relearn in therapy, so that you can get pleasure from plenty of different sources, including yourself. > I don't have sex or love in my life so when > i need something to look forward to. something to reward myself. i > guess i will use steak as a reward. Then, you would only substitute a kind of food for another. Why no sex or love in your life? Because of lack of opportunity or shyness? Or because you won't bother with that until you have changed. > i hate the idea of > going hiking without treats to compensate for the pain. You should not feel *pain* when exercising. Exercising is supposed to be its own reward. It's a pleasure. Like eating actually. It's the pleasure of feeling your body going through the move. Rewarding something painful that you feel you need to do to lose weight with food that you feel is bad is an extremelly dangerous process. That's the kind of reasonning you will find among anorexics for instance. Can you not find some kind of exercise that is not painful, or even enjoyable? Why is it painful btw? > i don't buy the concept that sweets can be part of our diet in moderation. they > are too addictive and they ruin your appetite for everything else. You get tired of eating only sweets after a while. ;) As part of my process, I spent a while eating as much chocolate as I wanted for lunch, and I was positively craving for veggies by dinner. Indeed, if you don't use moderation, you will ruin your appetite. That's why most people use moderation : they don't like to overeat and they like having a varied diet. So, I could keep having all chocolate lunches, I mean, I know I can lose weight on them. Actually, I still do once in a blue moon. But on a day to day basis, I would much rather have something else along with my chocolate chunk. > they need to be treated like a poison and avoided at all cost. The problem is that in all objectivity, they are not a poison. I mean, they cause cavities, but that's the extent of it. They don't kill people for real. You might convince yourself that it is indeed a poison, and you will really believe it. But someday, you will eat some, discover that it doesn't taste like poison, and doesn't kill you. And then, there is the very real risk of binges. And then, you will go in a guilt trip for eating such a poison, feel depressed and try to find a comforter. And since sweets are your always comforter right now, well, welcome to the binge-diet cycle. > i used to think this kind of thinking was radical and unnecessary. just from > the stand point of teeth, simple sugar should be avoided. It's indeed radical and dangerous. From the stand point of teeth, you should rather eat sugars during a meal and brush your teeth afterwards. Or, if you eat some outside of a meal, you should do so in moderation and flush your mouth afterwards. Anyway, that's what you should do after any meal, sugar or not. >> You don't have to "abandon all your sweets." You just have to >> avoid [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Yes, sorta like . . .a little bit of pregnancy, or cocaine is > good for your health . . but be SURE not to go "all the way"! :-} Logical fallacy of false dichotomy. The term for someone who eats only things that could not be harmful in excess is "breatharian." The fact is that nutrition can only be meaningfully dealt with quantitatively. > I think I know what it > is like to be one of the those starving third world kids you see on > tv I very much doubt it. M. > Going to the bakery is the main source of happiness in my life. Then, that's the root of the problem. There is nothing wrong with feeling pleasure at eating food you like, it's part of what makes us human being (though animals find pleasure in some food too). However, when food becomes the "main source of happiness" in your life, something is *really* going wrong with that life. May I suggest that you seek someone to assist you in solving that issue? I'm thinking about a psychologists or psychiatrist specialized in eating disorders and/or depression. Cognitive therapies and behavioural therapies have good results, but I would not rule out classical psychoanalysis either. > I don't know how I can just abandon all my sweets. Why the hell would you want to abandon them *all*? What's the reason for that? I mean, you might certainly have to abandon *some* of them. Just like most people have to abandon some of the food in their plate, once they have had enough. Or like they have to symbolically "abandon" some of the food on the menu at restaurant, because they can't eat everything that is on it. But this certainly doesn't prevent them from going out and eating at restaurants. You seem to reason in binary mode. Either you have all the sweets, or you have none. This points to some cognitive distorsion or psychological issue. Again, this is something that can be helped. > It leaves a vacuum in my life. I feel like my arms have been cut off. And eating "fills" that vacuum. Like, when you have your stomach full and stretched, you feel like you exist. Maybe you even like the pain you get from your stomach, because it makes you feel like you are real. This is understandable, and not that uncommon. But it's certainly not normal. Food might help with some negative emotions from time to time. Everyone has a bit of chocolate from time to time, and feels better afterwards. However, you have a real problem when it reaches that kind of intensity. > I think I know what it is like to be one of the those starving third world kids you see on > tv begging for money. Whether you put the food inside your mouth or inside the garbage bin is not going to help these kids. If you really want to help them, I suggest you do your duty as a citizen and try to get the right politician in control of your country. You might also want to look into concepts such as "Fair Trade" and "sustainable agriculture". You might also want to check issues such as patents, subsides to farmers in the US and Europe and so on. That would certainly help these kids more than trying to fit the whole bakery inside your mouth. Anyway, these kids are a political problem, and they don't have much to do with your daily activity of eating (though the western world eating less will eventually help them). Now, back to your problem. You don't have a sci.med.nutrition problem. Well, maybe you have one, but it's a tiny matter compared to the rest. You don't need a diet either, they're pretty useless on your kind of problem. What you have is a purely cognitive and psychological problem, an eating disorder. Probably a basic cognitive distorsion (false cognitions about food, like bad food-good food, can't have all so can't have any...), maybe with hyperphagia. Don't bother with a diet before you fix that problem, because otherwise, the diet *will* fail dramatically. This doesn't mean you should do nothing. It means you have to seek a qualified professional with a specialty in eating disorders. > > Going to the bakery is the main source of happiness in my life. > [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > > Sound advice, maybe, but rather long-term. As a sugar addict myself, I think the problem is partly psychological but also partly physiological. There are some practical steps you can take right away, like substituting fruit and small amounts of dried fruit, unsalted nuts and high-cocoa-solids dark chocolate for your regular snacks. If you don't eat any sugar for a while, these snacks will taste very sweet to you. Drink lots of water, or green tea (which is pretty good without sugar). Don't let yourself get too hungry -- eat small extra meals including a lot of vegetables and moderate amounts of whole grain foods. If you feel sugar cravings, look at your watch; force yourself to wait ten minutes before you give in, then eat an orange or apple, slowly. Don't do anything else while you're eating; enjoy the food. Ask yourself before you've finished if you are still hungry; if not, save the rest for a little later. If you slip, try again and keep trying. People who succeed in dropping bad habits usually fail repeatedly before they succeed. Good luck! CDB > Sound advice, maybe, but rather long-term. Well, diet change and weight loss *is* a long term issue ;) > As a sugar addict myself I wonder if the OP is about sugar or not. Sweets in a bakery can be almost as much fat as sugar. > I think the problem is partly psychological but also partly physiological. Maybe. But ideas like feeling a vacuum in one's life, or like food is your only source of happiness are clearly psychological. There might be some physiological issues on top of that. The problem is that if you don't address the psychological issues first and proceed to remove the comforter food, you might be removing all that is holding the OP together. At least, I would consider getting psychological help from the very beginning, even if he wants to do the rest right from the start. > There are some practical steps you can take right away, like substituting > fruit and small amounts of dried fruit, unsalted nuts and high-cocoa-solids > dark chocolate for your regular snacks. There is the risk that these food won't be as comforting as his usual food, and this can lead to binges. If the "addiction" is physiological (reactive hypoglycemia), dried fruits can be pretty bad too. > If you don't eat any sugar for a while, these snacks will taste very sweet to you. Yup, my pleasure/sweetness curve now is properly belled shaped, instead of increasing all the way to syrup. But *paying* attention to food can also accomplish that. Like, chewing slowly while keeping focussed on the meal. Many overeaters just swallow the food whole without ever tasting it. > Drink lots of water, or green tea (which is pretty good without sugar). Sparkling water often does the trick for people who think regular water is for bathing only ;) > If you feel sugar cravings, look at your > watch; force yourself to wait ten minutes before you give in, then eat an > orange or apple, slowly. Another option, especially in case of reactive hypoglycemia, would be to fit the sweet food at the end of a meal. > Don't do anything else while you're eating; enjoy > the food. Ask yourself before you've finished if you are still hungry; if > not, save the rest for a little later. Sound advice. If you don't feel hungry, don't eat, because you can't reach satiety if you're not hungry. If you don't feel hunger anymore, just skip 1-2 meal, you should get a pretty good idea of how real hunger feels like. To feel satiety you can : - Relax before eating. If you know meditation technics, that's the moment to use them. Otherwise, just close you eyes, take some deep slow breaths and try to keep quiet in your head (or if too hard, fill it with positive quiet thoughts). - Take only meals : seat down at the table, have a plate... Even if you're eating a chocolate chunk or a yogourt. - You can try using a smaller plate. You can also train yourself to always leave some food in your plate and throw it away, as a way to experience separation from food. - Chew slowly, try to *feel* the food in your mouth, try to analyse the various tastes and aroma. See what you like or dislike in each particular food item. Try to see if your perception of the taste evolves throughout the meal. - You're eating, not reading or watching TV! > If you slip, try again and keep trying. Slips *will* happen. Try to become a clinical observer of yourself. Slipping is a mere event on your way. You don't have to pretend it doesn't exist, but you don't have to go on a guilt trip about it either. Both of these will only causes slips come back more often. If you feel you really can't resist, don't snap completely and swallow half the bakery in a huge guilt loaded trance. Slip in style. Go to the very best bakery of the city, and buy a single item, the one you love the most. Go back home, or to a quiet setting. Get in nice clothes, set your table nicely, with your best plate and silverware. Now, eat your thing, slowly, while enjoying every single mouthful. Don't feel guilty about it, because a single item like this is not going to ruin everything. If, at some point, you feel that eating your cake is not as enjoyable as the first mouthfulls, there is no point in finishing it. Remember, you're trying to enjoy yourself, no point in continuing if you don't. Just throw away the leftovers, you will buy another fresh one another day. If you feel awfully bad about throwing away that food, you can even write it a funeral oration to the leftovers of you cake - noone is going to make fun of whatever you do in the privacy of your home. > > Going to the bakery is the main source of happiness in my life. > [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > do nothing. It means you have to seek a qualified professional with a > specialty in eating disorders. Assuming you are being serious, the cure for the starving children is population control. Starvation unfortunately is the only check they have on population because we have naively cured so many diseases. They will always breed only checked by starvation. Sending food over will only increase the population and ensure more starvation in the future. Free trade works very nicely. You are a pseudo intellectual who does not know what the hell you are talking about. I am amazed at your poor judgement. Psychologists and psychiatrists are quacks. Behavioural therapies and drugs have never proven to do anything beneficial. Simple sugars should not be in our diets,period. They are highly addictive and ruin our appetite for more healthy fruits and vegetables. We get too much sugar just eating fruit. I do not have any kind of mental illness. I am lonely and have no social contacts or real purpose for living. that is a social problem. nothing to do with psych. > Assuming you are being serious I am. > the cure for the starving children is population control. Starvation unfortunately is the only check they > have on population because we have naively cured so many diseases. That's certainly part of the problem. I'm afraid is a bit too late to remove the cures we provided, so we have to make do with the current situation. > Sending food over will only increase the population and ensure more starvation in the future. I don't beleive in sending food. The main purpose seems to subside private companies with public money to pay for that food. And to keep these countries in a state of permanent dependency. Not good long term. > Free trade works very nicely. Fair Trade is part of Free Trade actually. A good can package a certain moral value, and I can chose to valuate that moral value at a given amount of money. That's still Free Trade. The manufacturer is linked to the producer through a private contract, and the fact that that contracts includes moral issues or not is a private matter. The final value of the good is still regulated by the market. > You are a pseudo intellectual > who does not know what the hell you are talking about. I am amazed at > your poor judgement. As you wish. Though it did seem I hit a nerve. You can do whatever you want of what I said, it comes free of charge and in good faith. I'm not going to baby-sit you, so you are free to follow whatever advices you want, or not at all if you want. Or you can even forget about them and remember them in ten years. > Psychologists and psychiatrists are quacks. Behavioural therapies and > drugs have never proven to do anything beneficial. I used to think the same thing fifteen years ago. I wish I could go back in time and kick my butt to a consultation. Would have made life a lot smoother. > Simple sugars should not be in our diets,period. If you already know everything, why do you come whinning here? Why don't you just cut sugars, I mean, they don't even sound like food in your mouth... > They are highly addictive and ruin > our appetite for more healthy fruits and vegetables. That's your own moral opinion on sugar. And that's not my experience. Obviously, your opinion is not going to change my experience. And my experience is not going to change your opinion. So, whatever floats your boat. You can always try to "cure" your "addiction" by going on Atkins or South Beach. That might even work, it has for some people. For long term success on Atkins or SB or low carb in general seems a bit more involved than plainly following the book. You will find all the necessary information on alt.support.low-carb and a bunch of like minded people who will agree with you on the evil of sugars. > I do not have any kind of mental illness. I didn't speak of mental illness, you're the one using that word. I spoke of disorder. If you don't want people to think you have a disorder, don't sound like you have one. I'm sorry if "I can just abandon all my sweets. It leaves a vacuum in my life. I feel like my arms have been cut off." sounded like "eating disorder" to me. But if you think these are perfectly normal feelings that you should not worry about, that's fine, it's your own brain. > I am lonely and have no social contacts or real purpose for living. that > is a social problem. nothing to do with psych. If you say so. That's exacty how I sounded while on depression, but then, I guess your case is wholly different. |
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