> > For example, NJ State Attorney General, Peter Harvey's is suing Nissan
> > for producing cars with headlights that thieves find enticing to
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> radio...........or right here on the newsgroup, but has no merit worth
> consideration by serious people.
Here a few more facts regarding this particular issue and it sounds like
Nissan is getting sued for their headlights being enticing to theives in
addition to being very expensive to replace.
http://www.wnbc.com/money/2968643/detail.html
Are You In Headlight Hell?
Xenon Lights More Popular Than Ever With Thieves
The new xenon headlights are clearly brighter and more efficient than the
old style. They've also proven quite popular to both car owners and thieves.
We did early reports on the theft problem nearly two years ago. Since then,
xenon headlights have continued to frustrate carmakers, lawmakers, and most
of all people like Erica Swanson.
It took less than a year for Swanson to go from loving her car to resenting
it.
"They've been stolen three times and I've had my car less than a year. April
10 will make it a year," Swanson said.
Swanson is not the worst case the New Jersey Attorney General's Office has
seen.
"The winner so far is the poor person who has had this happen to them five
times," said Reni Erdos of the New Jersey Division of Consumer Affairs.
Headlights stolen from 2002 and 2003 Nissan Maximas make up the majority of
the 750 theft reports filed in New Jersey. That's enough to prompt a lawsuit
against the carmaker.
"What we're seeking there is restitution and out-of-pocket loss that
customers had suffered," New Jersey Attorney General Peter C. Harvey said.
With replacement costs at $1,500 to $2,000, those pockets are pretty empty.
Many consumers have paid outright and those who filed insurance claims still
paid deductibles.
"I had to pay a $500 deductible," Swanson said.
Don't forget to multiply that $500 by the three times her lights were
stolen.
Nissan responded by distributing antitheft kits. Some people bought them and
others thought they were supposed to be free. Car owners found the solution
offered puzzling at best. That's one of the reasons New York consumer
authorities have decided to join in the legal action.
"We are urging people to contact the consumer protection board because we
are negotiating with attorneys to help people get their money back," said
Teresa A. Santiago of the New York State Consumer Protection Board.
In Connecticut, the attorney general's office tells us they haven't received
any calls from consumers complaining about headlight thefts but are
interested if there are any.
A Nissan spokesperson told us the company would not comment on issues that
will be settled in court later. It is interesting to note the company
acknowledges it redesigned the headlights in its 2004-2005 models.
Benjamin Holdt - 15 Apr 2004 14:37 GMT
How sad the responses to my original posting are....to quote Einstein,
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more
violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move
in the opposite direction."
To look into ones own conscience takes courage and honesty. To act on
this takes a spirit of great moral character. Its all too common to
rationalize one's dirty deeds in the name of the almighty dollar, the
barrier which keeps one from even knowing his conscience exists.
With this thought in mind, we must again ask ourselves.....what are we
evolving to?
As far as Peter Harvey goes, this news link says it all:
http://www.thnt.com/thnt/story/0,21282,916059,00.html
> > > For example, NJ State Attorney General, Peter Harvey's is suing Nissan
> > > for producing cars with headlights that thieves find enticing to
[quoted text clipped - 69 lines]
> will be settled in court later. It is interesting to note the company
> acknowledges it redesigned the headlights in its 2004-2005 models.
Dawn Taylor - 15 Apr 2004 19:46 GMT
>How sad the responses to my original posting are....
Well, naturally. How could any of us hope to even approach the
stratospheric intelligence of your cross-posted screed?
Heh. I love it when people with nothing better to than troll Usenet
actually believe themselves to be superior entities. Makes me giggle,
it does.
Dawn
> > As a lifelong citizen of the US, I am concerned about the
> > deteriorating trend that is destroying the dignity and integrity of
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> from the couch to the phone to call in a radio show, write an article for a
> newsgroup, or discuss it agitatedly over church or beer!
YOUR PSYCHIC ABILITIES ARE LACKING MY FRIEND... AWARENESS AND OBSERVATION ARE
POWERFUL TOOLS IN UNDERSTANDING THE TRUTH.
> The former has had his day in court; the jury has spoken. The later usually
> makes up his "judicial mind" from ten minutes of detail and fact as recited
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> long as it took to get justice..........or revenge....whichever word you
> prefer!
I WOULD HAVE HOPED FOR A BIT MORE EVOLUTION OF HUMAN BEHAVIOR BY NOW. YOUR
POINT SUGGESTS THAT OUR ONLY OPTIONS ARE VIOLENCE OR INJUSTICE. THIS IS
PRECISELY THE MINDSET OF THIS COUNTRY THAT IS CONTRIBUTING TO THE SPIRALING
CHAOS.
> Laws and systems of laws don't just appear out of a vaccuum. They are
> compromises made over time by process as decided by the whole where the
> individual surrenders some of his personal perogative for action in exchange
> for the contract to live among the group.
THIS WOULD WORK WITH THE ABSENCE OF CORRUPT, SELF SERVING POLITICIANS,
HOWEVER, WE ALL KNOW THIS ISN'T THE CASE.
> > The lawyers and judges in this country (with the exception of a very
> > few who are courageous enough to stand strong on their convictions),
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> lost and the attorney, you will be pleased to know, went into domestic law
> helping people get divorces.
> > For example, NJ State Attorney General, Peter Harvey's is suing Nissan
> > for producing cars with headlights that thieves find enticing to
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> radio...........or right here on the newsgroup, but has no merit worth
> consideration by serious people.
PERHAPS YOU SHOULD LOOK AT YOURSELF MR. COX. MY STATEMENT REGARDING PETER
HARVEY WAS WELL RESEARCHED. THIS IS A MAN WHO HAS TAKEN THE PEOPLE OF NEW
JERSEY FOR TOTAL FOOLS. JUST ANOTHER CASE OF ABUSE OF POWER.
http://www.thnt.com/thnt/story/0,21282,916059,00.html
> > Or how about a federal judge ordering WalMart to pay $16 million for
> > selling a shotgun that was used in a murder. I may be crazy, but
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> fingers. The dispute was settled........no lawyers........no judge.....no
> jury!
I ASK FOR HONESTY AND DIGNITY IN THE LEGAL SYSTEM AND THIS IS WHAT YOU
CONSIDER THE ONLY OPTION? MY POSTING DID NOT SUGGEST A PROHIBITION OF
LITIGATION. ITS PRECISELY THIS TYPE OF OVERDRAMATIC BEHAVIOR IN THE
COURTROOMS THAT DISTRACTS THE JURY FROM THE TRUTHS OF THE MATTER. A TYPICAL
DECIETFUL FORM OF TRICKERY THAT IS USED BY ATTORNEYS.
> > As the avalanche of lawsuits grows stronger and stronger the concern
> > for humanity becomes less and less. Do these subhumans that call
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> alternative.
> AGAIN, MR. COX, I FEEL THAT WE SHOULD BE EVOLVING. YOUR BELIEF THAT OUR ONLY
CHOICES IN THE LEGAL SYSTEM IS EITHER VIOLENCE OR CORRUPTION HAS JUST
REAFFIRMED MY POINT THAT THE LEGAL SYSTEM IS NOTHING MORE THAN EVOLVING
STUPIDITY.
WE MUST AS A WHOLE RECOGNIZE THE GRADUAL SELF DESTRUCTION IN THIS TREND OF
GREED AND TAKE A STAND AGAINST IT OR WE WILL JUST EVENTUALLY KILL OURSELVES
OFF. GREED IS AN ULTIMATELY SELFCONSUMING BEHAVIOR....
Randy Cox - 17 Apr 2004 13:44 GMT
> > > As a lifelong citizen of the US, I am concerned about the
> > > deteriorating trend that is destroying the dignity and integrity of
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> YOUR PSYCHIC ABILITIES ARE LACKING MY FRIEND... AWARENESS AND OBSERVATION ARE
> POWERFUL TOOLS IN UNDERSTANDING THE TRUTH.
I observe that people from your side of the argument often truncate and
mistate the facts of cases that they use as examples to undermine the
ability of the little guy to sue the big guy..........or even other little
guys who themselves would prefer to operate with impunity as they exploit
others and dislike having to answer for their actions in a court of law. We
shall see how honest you turn out to be in the presentation of the facts.
> > The former has had his day in court; the jury has spoken. The later usually
> > makes up his "judicial mind" from ten minutes of detail and fact as recited
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> PRECISELY THE MINDSET OF THIS COUNTRY THAT IS CONTRIBUTING TO THE SPIRALING
> CHAOS.
There will always be chaos...but it will not affect the larger order. See
quantum physics.
I wish time would permit me to explain in detail the co-existence of chaos
to order as it exists in new understandings of quantum physics....but that
is not the discussion here. I believe that God alots each of his creations
a certain space of chaos to control or experience as he one chooses, but the
swirls of chaos will not undermine the patterns or order. See the weather
models and extensions into philosophy. Nevermind.........just don't doubt
my own understanding of chaos and order. We can talk of this after my book
is published and you take issue.
For now, let it be known that I see the chaos you see, but I attribute it to
the degeneration of reason and rationality. I see it as a symptom of the 30
second media bite and a windows mentality where thinking in depth is
sublimated into the paths provided and more and more restricted as a free
flowing event.
> > Laws and systems of laws don't just appear out of a vaccuum. They are
> > compromises made over time by process as decided by the whole where the
> > individual surrenders some of his personal perogative for action in exchange
> > for the contract to live among the group.
> THIS WOULD WORK WITH THE ABSENCE OF CORRUPT, SELF SERVING POLITICIANS,
> HOWEVER, WE ALL KNOW THIS ISN'T THE CASE.
Among other things, I have studied law. I have studied history. I find the
presense of these corrupt, self-serving politicains to be consistent and
never lacking since the beginning of history.......yet law moves man closer
to the ideal rather than away from it. Law shines a light on the
imperfections of man and offers a path to a better way. That is the real
evolution, though you focus on the magnifications of the flaws of the moment
and endanger the accomplishments of thousands of years out of disgust for
things you think you see that exist in lessor detail or not at all as you
present.
> > > The lawyers and judges in this country (with the exception of a very
> > > few who are courageous enough to stand strong on their convictions),
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> > > coarse, on occasion, there are legitimate causes, but the epidemic of
> > > sue happy litigators has reached a level of pure insanity.
I hear far more cries from the politicos than I hear from litigants. I
think it is a straw man you build.
> > Many in Texas think as you do....but they are mistaken. Many in Texas think
> > the high cost of medicine is due to the cost of mal practise lawsuit awards.
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> JERSEY FOR TOTAL FOOLS. JUST ANOTHER CASE OF ABUSE OF POWER.
> http://www.thnt.com/thnt/story/0,21282,916059,00.html
I have no interest in that case. It is a single case and one in New Jersey.
It is for people in the state of New Jersey to worry about. You stated the
facts of that case in a single sentence. I was pointing out the folly of
doing that. The facts of a case can be reduced (after due process and
judicial finding) to a paragraph but your sentence did not rely upon any
such findings nor fact. It was just a heavy weighted opinion with no
meaning. The case itself is just not important enough to the issue for me
to bother with. The facts of one case do not reduce the values of our
judicial systems to the low levels you suggest.
I will choose the other case you offer to examine in detail as it is one
that might have been brought in Texas.
Except for the random terrorist event, we mostly walk the streets unharmed
from unhappy consequences of business or accident. There are the
execeptions involving the lawless, but for the most part we suffer our
losses at the hands of accident and excess to the outcomes of a court or we
walk away from them rather than endure the due process. Not
perfect..........but not nearly as bad as you protray. Now if those of you
who desire to quash and make harder the ability to take a question to
court..........even a trivial one......then you would begin to see the
breakdown as a poor system of law and order gives way to less and less due
process. An angry victim can have his day in court should he invest that
which is necessary to do so.........otherwise he can turn the cheek and save
his legal fight for another day.
> > > Or how about a federal judge ordering WalMart to pay $16 million for
> > > selling a shotgun that was used in a murder. I may be crazy, but
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> > > justice in this? Have we evolved into a breed of humans that are too
> > > stupid to be responsible for our own choices and actions?
Now that would be a case I might be interested in.
Okay, I looked that one up. Who are the sources for the facts you give!
You mistate the facts. Did you do the cutting or was it done by your
source.
The judge didn't "order" that, the judge "approved a settlement." It is
always the aim of a court to get the issues settled outside the courtroom.
This was the case here. The judge's order was an affirmation in the process
of settlement more than an order against the defendant. What kind of a
person are you to blame a judge for approving a mutual settlement.
You did not mention that the man had filled out a federal form on which he
admitted to being under a restraining order preventing him for buying guns.
Do you see what I am talking about. You are trying to destroy our system
and you are willing to lie to accomplish that. If you mistate because you
listen to false media.........then the responsibility still rests with you.
Wal Mart agreed to pay $16 million because they did not pay attention to
something that society has deemed important. They ignored the federal form
where the restrictions on this guy from buying firearms were clear! That is
the tort. Two people died because of their "negligence". The tort is
negligence! It is established in common law that people are responsible
when others suffer injury due to their "negligence!" It has to do with
ancient law..........nothing to do with evil judges and lawyers. You on the
other hand do perpetrate evil by bearing false witness to the principals of
this case. Shame upon you!
> > Go ahead, make it virtually impossible for one man to sue another. That is
> > a step back to the old west. We knew how to handle these things here in
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> > fingers. The dispute was settled........no lawyers........no judge.....no
> > jury!
> I ASK FOR HONESTY AND DIGNITY IN THE LEGAL SYSTEM AND THIS IS WHAT YOU
> CONSIDER THE ONLY OPTION? MY POSTING DID NOT SUGGEST A PROHIBITION OF
> LITIGATION. ITS PRECISELY THIS TYPE OF OVERDRAMATIC BEHAVIOR IN THE
> COURTROOMS THAT DISTRACTS THE JURY FROM THE TRUTHS OF THE MATTER. A TYPICAL
> DECIETFUL FORM OF TRICKERY THAT IS USED BY ATTORNEYS.
I was pointing out a factual actual historical event that happened in the
days when the circuit cour judge was much less accessable than he is today.
If you take cases out of a courtroom, they will be settled. You talk of
some imagined evolution. I am just telling you that people settle their
differences either at law or by other means. You are attacking the system
of law and advocating restricting accesss to the injured and even percieved
injured. As can be seen even in the inane ten minute cases on the TV
courts (which short cut due process and law most of the time). People often
have convoluted ideas about their positions. With courts of law, they are
able to vent and have a consideration of the facts by a jury and a decision
of the law by a judge. It will be explained to them and in a far far
majority of the cases, the loser goes away, perhaps sore..........but
uninclined to seek revenge.
> > > As the avalanche of lawsuits grows stronger and stronger the concern
> > > for humanity becomes less and less. Do these subhumans that call
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> > > consciences? What will become of us if this self-destructing trend
> > > continues?
I see the faces of the cut-throats of which you speak, but the faces may not
be the same faces you see. I have never sued anyone. I've been sued a
number of times. I've won all the cases I should have won, and I lost a few
that I should have lost. I really didn't fight those cases. Many times in
all my businesses have I been wronged. Most of the time, I either let it
go, or the well-reasoned threat of a lawsuit brought settlement.....never to
my complete satisfaction...but enough to stay my considerable warrior
instincts. The availability of the courts have stilled my anger. I could
always sue if I felt bad enough.........I didn't........the system worked
pretty good....but then I'm not in the constant habit of screwing other
people by design.
> > I'm with you! The tort system is only a fence that keeps us apart. I don't
> > like the fence and neither do you. As soon as I finish killing this
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> GREED AND TAKE A STAND AGAINST IT OR WE WILL JUST EVENTUALLY KILL OURSELVES
> OFF. GREED IS AN ULTIMATELY SELFCONSUMING BEHAVIOR....
I truly believe you believe the words above. I think perhaps you are moved
to indignation by talk radio. It rots the mind! Remember the case of the
woman who sued because of the hot coffee? Oh so many were upset about that.
I read that case. That coffee was not hot......it was super hot! Because
of a market opportunity from an office building down the street, the manager
kept the coffee at super hot temperatures. He was accustomed to selling
large orders for delivery throughout the building. It was superhot to make
sure it was still hot after the long delivery process. The tort was in
passing such superhot coffee across the drivethru window..........a place a
reasonable person could foresee spilled coffee as a normal occurrence.
Normal coffee would be uncomfortable....we've all experienced that without
law suit.
Normal coffee does not cause third degree burns. The victim had to undergo
multiple skin grafts to replace the skin that was burned away by the coffee
that was hotter than one would expect.
To talk about this case as if it was just another case of hot coffee spilled
in the lap would be deceitful. If the skin of your thigh was melted
requiring skin grafts..........you would then understand what the case was
about. To assume from talk radio that the lady got 600,000 for a coffee
spill would be untrue. It never happened that way, though the misstatement
of actual facts and the 30 second assumption of the facts of this case fuels
the anger of people such as yourself.
It remains, that one who feels themselves to be the victim of a lawsuit
without merit can sue for damages themselves. Nuisance lawsuits do exist,
but not in the quantity as presented by those that prey upon the shallow
minds of talk radio audience. A careful reading of the actual facts of most
of these talked about cases usually reveal much more than the renditions
offered by the indignant talking head.
Someone with rationality and reason must stand up against those that would
stir up the unwashed and unminded to riot in the streets and vote in the
real corrupt politicians to undermine the systems of law that stand between
the bad and the good. It ain't perfect, but trust me...if is far better
than to suffer the wrath of people like me that are capable of far more
revenge than we undertake due to our confidence in a better way of law and
due process.
If you take my access to a court of law (even if I have never used it
before) then you will leave me with a far darker solution. I will walk away
from wrongs. I have walked away from many wrongs, because they were not
worth the trouble and expense of a lawsuit...........but the existence of
that possibility vented my anger and saved, in the process, as many from
greater damage to themselves than that they inflicted upon me.
Don't underestimate the numbers of people who stay their hand as do I. We
are multitudes! We hold ourselves back because of a commitment to law and
order. Take away the rights to redress, and you would not believe the storm
that would fall upon the land. Law keeps us from the ancient ways, but we
the blood law still runs in our veins. Don't do it! You think you want
that .....but you do not!
Randy R. Cox
Randy R. Cox