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Medical Forum / General / General / February 2007

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Myth of nicotine addiction.

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Sairiliyan Siyaska - 25 Feb 2007 09:57 GMT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_smoking

.
So I was standing in market with fresh vegetables around me. Doctors
advice that eating fresh vegetables is good for health. I was hungry
and I had money in my pocket. Why I was standing still there?

That was moment of truth. I was feeling inside to go to restaurant and
eat same food which everyone in this town, country or world eat
everyday.

I was feeling urge, craving inside to eat regular food. And I
discovered that exactly same feeling arise inside me when I try to
quit smoking.

But that so called 'withdrawal sympton' is related to nicotine
addiction.

What reason you or scientists are going to give for urge, craving to
eat regular food?

If you don't believe me, I challenge you to quit eating your regular
food and eat just vegetables everyday. Don't add anything spicy to it.
Just washed or boiled vegetables.

You will find that 'addiction of nicotine' is just plain wrong. Such
thing does not exist.

Obviously it does not mean that smoking is good for health. I just
want to bust myth of so called 'nicotine addiction'.

I repeat again, try eating just vegetables everyday and nothing else.
It is good for health. What is stopping you?

Get real.
(PeteCresswell) - 25 Feb 2007 13:05 GMT
Per Sairiliyan Siyaska:
>You will find that 'addiction of nicotine' is just plain wrong. Such
>thing does not exist.

"Licit and Illicit Drugs" by Edward M. Brecher and the Editors of Consumer
Reports.  Little Brown & Company: Boston - Toronto.  

In Chapter 24 "The Case of Sigmund Freud" (pages 216-216) there's an account of
a Syananon chapter (heroin addicts all...) that quit smoking.   The ones who
successfully quit reported that "It was much easier to quit heroin than
cigarettes."

Chapter 25 "Nicotine as an Addicting Drug" debunks several rationales for
nicotine as not being addicting.
Signature

PeteCresswell

TheAmazingGuffy@gmail.com - 25 Feb 2007 14:17 GMT
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_smoking
>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>
> Get real.

If you weren't addicted then why did you smoke? If you weren't
addicted then why did you have pains when you quit doing smoking?
Either something is essential to your body (like food) or it is
something your body craves for no "beneficial" reason. If it is not
essential, it is an addiction.

Oh, and eating only vegetables everyday isn't good for your health. A
humans diet requires meat (no matter what the vegans tell you). If you
ate only vegetables, everyday, for the rest of your life, you would
die.....
Sairiliyan Siyaska - 25 Feb 2007 17:16 GMT
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_smoking
> >
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
> something your body craves for no "beneficial" reason. If it is not
> essential, it is an addiction.

So eating spicy food is not essential. Start eating just vegetables,
fruits and meat without adding anything spice.

> Oh, and eating only vegetables everyday isn't good for your health. A
> humans diet requires meat (no matter what the vegans tell you). If you
> ate only vegetables, everyday, for the rest of your life, you would
> die.....

Why are you trying to ignore central meaning of post? I am saying
that nicotine has nothing to do with addiction. You know that nicotine
is not responsible for lung cancer. If smoking is just nicotine
addiction, nicotine would have been extracted from tobacco. People
would have inhaled just nicotine and no danger of lung cancer would
have been there.

If I believe scientists, I will be happy inhaling just nicotine. No
need to light cig and inhale smoke.

But I do not see any nicotine inhalers.

Something is wrong.
Robert - 25 Feb 2007 17:48 GMT
> Why are you trying to ignore central meaning of post? I am saying
>that nicotine has nothing to do with addiction. You know that nicotine
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>But I do not see any nicotine inhalers.

Here's one:
http://www.nicotrol.com/

Here's a description:
http://www.quitnet.com/Library/Guides/NRT/inhaler.jtml
Fred G. Mackey - 25 Feb 2007 18:35 GMT
> So eating spicy food is not essential. Start eating just vegetables,
> fruits and meat without adding anything spice.

You won't suffer any withdrawal symptoms.

>>Oh, and eating only vegetables everyday isn't good for your health. A
>>humans diet requires meat (no matter what the vegans tell you). If you
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>  Why are you trying to ignore central meaning of post? I am saying
> that nicotine has nothing to do with addiction.

And drawing false analogies at the same time.  Double-blind studies
demonstrate that nicotine is addictive.

> You know that nicotine
> is not responsible for lung cancer. If smoking is just nicotine
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> But I do not see any nicotine inhalers.

I do, but they require a prescription.  Make them OTC and you'll see
more and more people using them.

> Something is wrong.
Twittering One - 25 Feb 2007 18:43 GMT
"I recommend a Freudian Analysis,
In addition to treatment for the addiction
If you're having difficulty with your termination issues."
~ Folly

Smoking changes brain the same way as drugs: study
Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:14 PM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Smoking causes long-lasting changes in the
brain similar to changes seen in animals when they are given cocaine,
heroin and other addictive drugs, U.S. researchers said on Tuesday.

A study of the brain tissue of smokers and nonsmokers who had died
showed that smokers had the changes, even if they had quit years
before, the team at the National Institute on Drug Abuse reported.

"The data show that there are long-lasting chemical changes in the
brains of humans," said Michael Kuhar of Emory University in Atlanta,
who was not involved in the study.

"The chemical changes alone suggest a physiological basis for nicotine
addiction."

A team led by Bruce Hope of NIDA, one of the National Institutes of
Health, analyzed levels of two enzymes found inside brain cells known
as neurons.

These enzymes help the neurons use chemical signals such as those made
by the message-carrying compound dopamine.

Smokers and former smokers had high levels of these enzymes, the
researchers reported in the Journal of Neuroscience.

Hope said other studies had seen the same thing in animals given
cocaine and heroin -- and it was clear that the drugs were causing the
effects.

"This strongly suggests that the similar changes observed in smokers
and former smokers contributed to their addiction," he added in a
statement.

Experts on smoking have long said that nicotine is at least as
addictive as heroin.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that
20.9 percent of all adults smoke in the United States, which adds up
to 45 million people. And 23 percent of high school students smoke.
Robert - 25 Feb 2007 18:59 GMT
>Smoking changes brain the same way as drugs: study
>Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:14 PM ET
>
>WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Smoking causes long-lasting changes in the
>brain similar to changes seen in animals when they are given cocaine,
>heroin and other addictive drugs, U.S. researchers said on Tuesday.

How do you think animals got so stupid? They weren't born that way. It's all the drugs
they take.

I gave my guinea pig a Sudoku puzzle .. an EASY one at that. He didn't fill in a single
square. All he did was crap on it. Then I found out why. He has a big stash of marijuana.
He even sleeps in it. He tried telling me it's timothy hay. Yeah, right.

Cats are all heroin addicts. If you don't believe me, check the pupils in their eyes. Why
do you think they sleep all the time? And throw up a lot. When they're in euphoria, they
purr; when they're not, they do ritualistic stuff. Ever wonder why they clean themselves
so much? To hide the track marks.

Dogs are drunks. That's why they slobber on people and are inappropriately friendly with
strangers. They'll drink anything, even a toilet bowl when they're desperate.

Mice are known to be heavy cocaine users. Talk about hyperactivity, they never sit still.
And paranoia, they're forever hiding behind things and under furniture. They get the
shakes real easy. Why do you think lab mice are protectively colored white? It ain't
because they live in snow. It's so you can't see the powder.
Shawn Hirn - 25 Feb 2007 18:57 GMT
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_smoking
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
> So eating spicy food is not essential. Start eating just vegetables,
> fruits and meat without adding anything spice.

I do it every day; what's the problem?
nizo1@verizon.net - 25 Feb 2007 19:35 GMT
> I do it every day; what's the problem?

Why do you perceive there to be a problem, Troll Shane?

> - Show quoted text -
Milan - 26 Feb 2007 01:12 GMT
>> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_smoking
>> >
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
> So eating spicy food is not essential. Start eating just vegetables,
> fruits and meat without adding anything spice.

If you have a good grilled filet it is a crime to add spices to it. You can
only add salt. Otherwise it is like adding coke to malt whisky. For
vegetables, just add olive oil and maybe balsamic vinegar.

regards
Milan
Nullman - 26 Feb 2007 22:21 GMT
>  Why are you trying to ignore central meaning of post? I am saying
> that nicotine has nothing to do with addiction. You know that nicotine
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Something is wrong

Something is wrong alright, with you. There are so nicotine inhailers,
where have you been? Have you smoked the nicotine free cigarettes, try
them - you wont smoke them since you get no nicotine. It's not smoking
I crave when I crave, it's nicotine. Why do I know people addicted to
nicotine replacement options? They haven't smoke in YEARS, but they
still use nicotine every day.
Sue - 25 Feb 2007 15:42 GMT
I received a new computer for Christmas.  My old computer had about
150 posters in its Usenet killfile.  This new one has only four but
soon to have five - you.  They are lonely.  You will be keeping
company with an Englishman, an Australian aborigine, an American
cowboy and an Asian American.  You might have a bit of a problem
because the Englishman and the Australian don't like the cowboy.  Not
sure how they feel about the other fellow.  You up to some refereeing?
Have fun!!
Sue
Eleven months, four days, 10 hours, 41 minutes and 25 seconds. 11267
cigarettes not smoked, saving $1,876.30. Life saved: 5 weeks, 4 days,
2 hours, 55 minutes.

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_smoking
>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>
>Get real.
nizo1@verizon.net - 25 Feb 2007 19:41 GMT
> Eleven months, four days, 10 hours, 41 minutes and 25 seconds. 11267
> cigarettes not smoked, saving $1,876.30. Life saved: 5 weeks, 4 days,
> 2 hours, 55 minutes.

Super gee-willikers, that's great news. I'll bet you put that
$1,876.30 to some great use, eh??
I don't get the "life saved" part? Do you work at a beach?
Robert - 25 Feb 2007 17:33 GMT
The point made by this article is that meat is addictive.

>So I was standing in market with fresh vegetables around me. Doctors
>advice that eating fresh vegetables is good for health. I was hungry
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>eat same food which everyone in this town, country or world eat
>everyday. I was feeling urge, craving inside to eat regular food.

In the author's mind, it is normal and universal to reject vegetables in favor of meat.
This is argumentum ad populum -- everyone does it.

Humans are hunter-gatherers. During the first million years, 20% of our food was hunted
meat and 80% was gathered vegetables. A human who rejected vegetables would have starved
to death. A meat-centric diet has been feasible for less than 10,000 years, less than 1%
of mankind's existence.

People in the third world eat a natural 80/20 mix of food. In 1980, 72% of 4.4 billion
humans lived in the third world. In 2000, the percentage had gone up to 80% of 6.2
billion.

The popularity argument is factually incorrect. The world's majority are not carnivores
standing in the street, lusting after meat; they are omnivores who are buying the
vegetables. The vegetable market wouldn't exist if most people agreed with the author. He
or she cannot mollify a guilty conscience with adjectives like "normal".

>And I
>discovered that exactly same feeling arise inside me when I try to
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>What reason you or scientists are going to give for urge, craving to
>eat regular food?

We could start with an accurate description. It isn't regular food, it is muscle tissue of
a murdered animal. That wasn't so hard, was it?

Oh, it was. We'll return to that when your habit is in remission.

>If you don't believe me, I challenge you to quit eating your regular
>food and eat just vegetables everyday.

I've been doing it for thirty years.

>Don't add anything spicy to it. Just washed or boiled vegetables.

Why not?

>You will find that 'addiction of nicotine' is just plain wrong. Such
>thing does not exist.

Sure, just like 'addiction to meat' doesn't exist.

>Obviously it does not mean that smoking is good for health. I just
>want to bust myth of so called 'nicotine addiction'.
>
>I repeat again, try eating just vegetables everyday and nothing else.
>It is good for health. What is stopping you?

What's stopping you is addiction, habituation, lack of culinary knowledge and skill,
childhood training, peer pressure. Deflect blame all you want, just acknowledge that meat
in the center of every meal is not normal.

The healing process cannot begin until you do.
Leonardo - 25 Feb 2007 23:19 GMT
> The point made by this article is that meat is addictive.
>
> Humans are hunter-gatherers. During the first million years, 20% of our food was hunted
> meat and 80% was gathered vegetables. A human who rejected vegetables would have starved
> to death. A meat-centric diet has been feasible for less than 10,000 years, less than 1%
> of mankind's existence.

What??? Meat-eating has been feasibile for 2 million years!
You must be listening to vegan propagandists. Man (genus: homo) has
been eating meat for more like 2 million years. The amount of eat
eaten increased and probably peaked in the last ice age.

> People in the third world eat a natural 80/20 mix of food. In 1980, 72% of 4.4 billion
> humans lived in the third world. In 2000, the percentage had gone up to 80% of 6.2
> billion.

They eat that way because they have to, not because they want to.

> We could start with an accurate description. It isn't regular food, it is muscle tissue
> of a murdered animal. That wasn't so hard, was it?

Just as I suspected, a veggie wacko. Perhaps I'm wrong and you're not
vegetarian ...

> I've been doing it for thirty years.

... then again, perhaps you are a vegetarian ...

> Sure, just like 'addiction to meat' doesn't exist.

Ahah, there ya go!!! You're a veggie wacko alright! You use all the
standard phrases they like to use to legitimize their belief system.
Its not a diet, its a bloody religion.

Adios wacko!!!
Robert - 26 Feb 2007 05:52 GMT
>> The point made by this article is that meat is addictive.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>been eating meat for more like 2 million years. The amount of eat
>eaten increased and probably peaked in the last ice age.

You're just making stuff up. It is difficult to know what man ate before recorded history.
Estimating where it "probably peaked" is nonsense. The little we know is inductive logic
from economic anthropology, which is based on pottery shards, bone pits and mostly the
economies of primative peoples.

The oldest homo sapiens fossils are the Omo skulls discovered by Richard Leakey, dated
195,000 years ago. The oldest hominid artifacts, almost certainly not h. sapiens, are
footprints discovered by Mary Leakey (Richard's mother), dated 3.5 million years ago,
although some experts dispute the dating as being too old.

I didn't say eating meat was infeasible, I said a meat-centered diet like you eat.

>> People in the third world eat a natural 80/20 mix of food. In 1980, 72% of 4.4 billion
>> humans lived in the third world. In 2000, the percentage had gone up to 80% of 6.2
>> billion.
>
>They eat that way because they have to, not because they want to.

People adopt a carnivorous diet because they associate meat with prosperity. They think
poor people eat gruel because they can't afford better food. In economically successful
countries such as Japan, people abandon a natural diet and replace it with a Western one.
Then the incidence of Western diseases goes up.

It's like buying an SUV to show the neighbors you've made it, then spending three times as
much on gasoline. It's not only stupid, it shows you have bad taste.

>> We could start with an accurate description. It isn't regular food, it is muscle tissue
>> of a murdered animal. That wasn't so hard, was it?
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>... then again, perhaps you are a vegetarian ...

Yes, I am.

>> Sure, just like 'addiction to meat' doesn't exist.
>
>Ahah, there ya go!!! You're a veggie wacko alright! You use all the
>standard phrases they like to use to legitimize their belief system.
>Its not a diet, its a bloody religion.

Juxtaposing the words veggie wacko doesn't prove that all veggies are wackos. You use the
technique of weak debaters, who think that adjectives are a substitute for building an
argument with logic.

Forty percent of vegetarians say their reason is health. They are neurotics who think food
is the enemy. They are frequent customers of health food stores.  And health nuts don't
smoke.  Another forty percent say their reason is animal rights. They are religious
zealots who give vegetarianism a bad name. My reason is culinary. You can't cook well nor
creatively when you have the mindset that meat must be the centerpiece of every meal. Look
at the menu in a typical restaurant. It doesn't list food dishes, it lists cuts of meat,
like a butcher shop. 'Would you like the steak or the pot roast? Or perhaps you'd like
chicken.' That's addict talk. That's the talk of culinary bankruptcy. Ask whether they
have seitan or quinoa and you'll get a blank stare, they don't know what you're talking
about.

Go to the best restaurants in America, like Charlie Trotter's in Chicago. He understands.
He wrote a glossy, expensive coffee-table cookbook about nothing but vegetables. He sells
a no-meat meal that's a work of art for $75 a plate. I eat comparable meals every day. Ok,
not as fancy every time, but better than 95% of restaurants.

Nutritionists are correct when they advise a variety of foods. There's no variety in beef
for every meal, with canned vegetables thrown in as an afterthought. There's no art,
either. Art is food for the soul.

You're a meat addict trying to justify your compulsion by badmouthing someone with more
culinary sense than you have.
Nullman - 26 Feb 2007 22:16 GMT
> If you don't believe me, I challenge you to quit eating your regular
> food and eat just vegetables everyday. Don't add anything spicy to it.
> Just washed or boiled vegetables.

That is because your body needs more than vegetables - duh. You might
want to keep your day job. Myth busting just isn't your thing.

Mike
-Nicotine free for one month, three weeks, four days, 17 hours, 16
minutes and 11 seconds. 1020 cigarettes not smoked, saving $216.95.
Life saved: 3 days, 13 hours, 0 minutes.

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