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Medical Forum / General / General / January 2007

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Iron-rich foods raise heart risks for diabetics

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ironjustice@aol.com - 10 Jan 2007 14:29 GMT
Iron-rich foods raise heart risks for diabetics
Tue Jan 9, 2007 10:59pm ET

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Consuming red meat and other foods high in
"heme" iron, such as chicken liver, clams and oysters, appears to
increase the risk of heart disease in diabetics, researchers report in
the journal Diabetes Care

It might be advisable that "patients with type 2 diabetes may limit
consumption of heme iron and red meat," lead investigator Dr. Lu Qi
told Reuters Health.

Dr. Qi of Harvard School of Public Health, Boston and colleagues note
that diabetes-related metabolic abnormalities may aggravate the adverse
effects of excess iron on the heart. However, they add, little is known
about whether iron consumption also affects heart disease risk.

To investigate further, the researchers followed 6,161 women
participating in the Nurses' Health Study, and who reported a diagnosis
of type 2 diabetes. During follow-up from 1980 through 2000, the team
documented 550 new cases of heart disease.

After accounting for age and body weight, high intake of both heme iron
and red meat appeared to increase the risk of heart disease.
Specifically, women who consumed the highest amount of heme iron were
50 percent more likely to develop heart disease than those with the
lowest intake. The risks were greatest in women who were
postmenopausal.

The researchers point out that because of the study's design, the
findings can't prove that high heme iron intake "causes" heart disease,
only that it is "associated" with the disease.

Still, they note that cutting back on consumption of heme iron-rich
foods might be prudent for diabetics.

SOURCE: Diabetes Care, January 2007

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
nesting@crowtree.com - 10 Jan 2007 16:38 GMT
A question lingering from the first time this information was posted.
Why in india is the world's highest diabetes rate found with one of the
lowest rates of iron intake?

The authors advised moderation in red meat consumption not stopping and
advised that cause and effect had not been established.
Juhana Harju - 10 Jan 2007 17:08 GMT
: A question lingering from the first time this information was posted.
: Why in india is the world's highest diabetes rate found with one of
: the lowest rates of iron intake?
:
: The authors advised moderation in red meat consumption not stopping
: and advised that cause and effect had not been established.

There are genetic reasons for the higher prevalence of diabetes in India.

http://www.news-medical.net/?id=8727

Signature

Juhana

Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 14 Jan 2007 03:21 GMT
> : A question lingering from the first time this information was posted.
> : Why in india is the world's highest diabetes rate found with one of
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> http://www.news-medical.net/?id=8727

Even "thin" people can have clinically significant amounts of visceral
adipose tissue (VAT).

VAT invariably arises from overeating.

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
http://EmoryCardiology.com
ironjustice@aol.com - 14 Jan 2007 18:12 GMT
>>Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote: Even "thin" people can have clinically significant amounts of visceral
adipose tissue (VAT).

VAT invariably arises from overeating.

Andrew  Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
http://EmoryCardiology.com<<

Seems 'they' are .. betting  / clinical trial .. THAT .. there is MORE
.. to .. increased fat than .. "overeating" ..

It seems they are betting  / clinical trial .. increased IRON .. is the
underlying *cause* of weight .. adipose fat .. gain ..

The clinical trial of nonalcoholic fatty liver disease .. which goes
WITH 'adipose fat distribution' .. PROVES there seems to BE enough ..
'evidence' .. to WARRANT .. a clinical .. trial ..

Diabetes Care. 2005 Oct;28(10):2486-91. Links

Serum ferritin is associated with visceral fat area and subcutaneous
fat area.

Iwasaki T, Nakajima A, Yoneda M, Yamada Y, Mukasa K, Fujita K, Fujisawa

N, Wada K, Terauchi Y.

Department of EndocrinologyMetabolism, Yokohama City University
Graduate School of Medicine, 3-9 Fukuura, Kanazawa-ku, Yokohama
236-0004, Japan. terauchi-...@umin.ac.jp.

OBJECTIVE: Until now, few clinical studies have reported on the
association between the indexes of body fat distribution and serum
ferritin, an indicator of body iron stores and a putative risk factor
for insulin resistance. We investigated the association between serum
ferritin concentrations and the indexes of distribution of adipose
tissues in the body, such as the visceral fat area (VFA), the
subcutaneous fat area (SFA), and the hepatic fat content in Japanese
subjects. RESEARCH DESIGN AND METHODS: A total of 248 Japanese subjects

(127 men and 121 postmenopausal women aged 57.8 +/- 13.9 years, BMI
25.7 +/- 4.6 kg/m(2); 140 subjects with type 2 diabetes and 108
nondiabetic subjects) were evaluated. Subjects with a history of
alcohol intake were excluded from the study. We measured body height,
body weight, and serum ferritin, as well as fasting plasma glucose and
plasma insulin concentrations. We estimated insulin resistance by
homeostasis model assessment. The fat distribution was evaluated by
measuring the VFA and SFA by abdominal computed tomography at the
umbilical level. To assess the hepatic fat content, the ratio of the
computed tomography attenuation value of the liver to that of the
spleen was calculated. RESULTS: Serum ferritin was significantly
correlated with the various indexes of adiposity examined, such as the
hepatic fat content (r = -0.280, P < 0.0001), VFA (r = 0.254, P <
0.0001), SFA (r = 0.231, P = 0.0005), and homeostasis model assessment
(r = 0.286, P = 0.0008). CONCLUSIONS: This is the first report to
directly demonstrate an association between serum ferritin and VFA and
SFA. The results of this study suggest that the serum ferritin
concentration may be a useful indicator of systemic fat content and
degree of insulin resistance.

PMID: 16186284 [PubMed - in process]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------?-----
http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT00230087

Iron Depletion Therapy for Type 2 DM and NAFLD

This study is currently recruiting patients.
Verified by National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney
Diseases (NIDDK) March 2006

---------------------------------------------------------------------------??------------------------------

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 14 Jan 2007 18:28 GMT
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Seems 'they' are .. betting  / clinical trial .. THAT .. there is MORE
> .. to .. increased fat than .. "overeating" ..

They would lose the bet.

The first law of thermodynamics did not happen by chance:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/565dcf43b835714d

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
http://EmoryCardiology.com
ironjustice@aol.com - 14 Jan 2007 18:48 GMT
They would lose the bet.

The first law of thermodynamics did not happen by chance:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/565dcf43b835714d

Andrew
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
http://EmoryCardiology.com <<

Don't you .. mean .. "they are GOING to .. lose .. that bet .. " .. ?

No stopping them now ..

They are recruiting .. and about to .. **prove** .. iron .. to BE ..
'the' .. culprit ..

http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT00230087

Iron Depletion Therapy for Type 2 DM and NAFLD

This study is currently recruiting patients.
Verified by National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney
Diseases (NIDDK) March 2006

---------------------------------------------------------------------------??------------------------------

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 14 Jan 2007 18:59 GMT
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Don't you .. mean .. "they are GOING to .. lose .. that bet .. " .. ?

No.

> No stopping them now ..
>
> They are recruiting .. and about to .. **prove** .. iron .. to BE ..
> 'the' .. culprit ..

There are plenty of vegetarians with low dietary iron intake who are
overweight from overeating.

There is no one overweight from eating the optimal amount.

Truth remains absolute...

... and invincible.

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
http://EmoryCardiology.com
ironjustice@aol.com - 16 Jan 2007 03:45 GMT
>>Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote: There are plenty of vegetarians with low dietary iron intake who are
overweight from overeating.<<

Now .. we are talking about .. gluttony .. then .. ?

>> There is no one overweight from eating the optimal amount.<<

Irespective of 'what' .. you eat .. ?

>> Truth remains absolute... ... and invincible.<<

Also subject to .. science ..

Science .. I believe you have heard of the word .. before ..

Increased iron stores GENETICALLY have been shown to increase diabetes
.. and diabetes IS .. associated with 'types' of food ..

So based on .. knowledge .. OF .. the inner workings of .. iron .. I
can say emphatically .. bud .. you don't have a .. clue ..

And BEING that you are working .. attempting to help .. you should do
some THOROUGH reading of the works of the BioMetal people and a few
other iron metabolism groups.

IMHO ..

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

> Andrew <><
> --
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> http://EmoryCardiology.com
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 16 Jan 2007 04:07 GMT
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> > There are plenty of vegetarians with low dietary iron intake who are
> > overweight from overeating.
>
> Now .. we are talking about .. gluttony .. then .. ?

No.  Simply overeating.

> > There is no one overweight from eating the optimal amount.<<
>
> Irespective of 'what' .. you eat .. ?

Correct.

It is not what you eat but how much you eat that causes you to be
overweight.

> > Truth remains absolute... ... and invincible.<<
>
> Also subject to .. science ..

Actually science is subordinate to the truth, Who is LORD Jesus Christ.

Though LORD Jesus Christ all things including the laws that govern the
universe have been made.

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
http://EmoryCardiology.com
ironjustice@aol.com - 16 Jan 2007 04:18 GMT
Irespective of 'what' .. you eat .. ?

Correct.

It is not what you eat but how much you eat that causes you to be
overweight.
<<

I believe .. you are .. wrong ..

It has been shown .. in the Greenland study .. increased dietary ..
MEAT .. causes INCREASED iron STORES ...

Diabetes is CAUSED by .. increased iron stores ..

Diabetics .. cannot eat .. optimum 'amount' .. OF twinkies .. as
opposed to optimum 'amount' .. of grilled steak .. AND twinkies ..

The higher intake of sugar will cause more fat .. BECAUSE .. 'of' ..
the decreased ABILITY to assimilate the twinkies .. because OF .. the
'metabolism' .. problems CAUSED ..by .. the increased iron STORES /
iron.

If you see what I mean ..

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

> > > Truth remains absolute... ... and invincible.<<
> >
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> http://EmoryCardiology.com
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 16 Jan 2007 07:14 GMT
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> I believe .. you are .. wrong ..

Would suggest you review the First Law of Thermodynamics.

Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit

As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love

Meanwhile, HIS brethren have been blessed:

http://MabletonGA.OurLittle.net/DreadNought

... and continue to be blessed:

http://MabletonGA.OurLittle.net/Guarantee

(note: Only those who are blessed by LORD GOD Almighty, Creator of
heaven and earth, will have access to these and other related
OurLittle.net articles per a secure IP database maintained by
TheWellnessFoundation.com)
ironjustice@aol.com - 16 Jan 2007 19:22 GMT
>>Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote: Would suggest you review the First Law of Thermodynamics.<<

You are saying the  First Law of Thermodynamics PERTAINS .. in .. a
person with diabetes .. ?

A person with diabetes does NOT assimilate a pound of refined wheat
loaf DIFFERENTLY / less efficiently .. as opposed to a whole grain
wheat loaf .. ?

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

> Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> OurLittle.net articles per a secure IP database maintained by
> TheWellnessFoundation.com)
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 17 Jan 2007 01:26 GMT
> > Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> > Would suggest you review the First Law of Thermodynamics.
>
> You are saying the  First Law of Thermodynamics PERTAINS .. in .. a
> person with diabetes .. ?

Yes.

Truth is simple.

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
http://EmoryCardiology.com
ironjustice@aol.com - 17 Jan 2007 15:36 GMT
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote:You are saying the  First Law of
Thermodynamics PERTAINS .. in .. a
person with diabetes .. ?

Yes.

Truth is simple.<<

Seems like your .. precious .. 'First Law' .. just .. got .. broke ..

I wonder if the .. First Law .. can be broken .. if .. say I throw some
iron filings into the mix .. ?

"Free energy!"

"Impossible!"

MORE juice OUT .. than goes IN ..  breaking the .. Law / First Law ..

http://www.steorn.net/en/news.aspx?p=2&id=22

Steorn develops free energy technology and issues challenge to the
global scientific community

London, 18th August 2006: Steorn, an Irish technology development
company, has today issued a challenge to the global scientific
community to test Steorn's free energy technology and publish the
findings.

Steorn's technology is based on the interaction of magnetic fields
and allows the production of clean, free and constant energy. The
technology can be applied to virtually all devices requiring energy,
from cellular phones to cars.

Steorn has placed an advertisement in The Economist this week to
attract the attention of the world's leading scientists working in
the field of experimental physics. From all the scientists who accept
Steorn's challenge, twelve will be invited to take part in a rigorous
testing exercise to prove that Steorn's technology creates free
energy. The results will be published worldwide.

Sean McCarthy, CEO of Steorn, commented: "During the years of its
development, our technology has been validated by various independent
scientists and engineers. We are now seeking twelve of the most
qualified and most cynical from the world's scientific community to
form an independent jury, test the technology in independent
laboratories and publish their findings.

"We are under no illusions that there will be a lot of cynicism out
there about our proposition, as it currently challenges one of the
basic principles of physics. However, the implications of our
technology go far beyond scientific curiosity: addressing many urgent
global needs including security of energy supply and zero emission
energy production. In order for these benefits to be achieved, we need
the public validation and endorsement of the scientific community".

"We're playing our part in making that happen by throwing down the
gauntlet with today's announcement - now it's over to the
scientists to ensure that the real potential and benefits of our
technology can be realised."

Following the validation process, Steorn intends to license its
technology to organisations within the energy sector. It will allow use
of its technology royalty-free for certain purposes including water and
rural electrification projects in third world countries, details to be
announced later.

? back

? 2000 - 2007 Steorn Ltd. Docklands Innovation Park, East Wall Road,
Dublin 3, Ireland

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 17 Jan 2007 15:55 GMT
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Seems like your .. precious .. 'First Law' .. just .. got .. broke ..

It seems you are delusional.

Would suggest you inform your doctor(s) about your symptoms.

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
http://EmoryCardiology.com
ironjustice@aol.com - 18 Jan 2007 03:42 GMT
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote: Seems like your .. precious .. 'First
Law' .. just .. got .. broke ..

It seems you are delusional.

Would suggest you inform your doctor(s) about your symptoms.

Andrew <<

The word delusional .. has connotations .. to it ..

You might consider refraining from using it .. or substituting ANOTHER
word for it .. because it may raise an .. ire .. or two which I believe
is not .. intended ..

Your collegues below seem to think there are .. different ..
metabolization .. 'rates' .. IN .. people ..

A matter of heat versus fat production ..

Same 'energy' / First Law .. BUT .. different .. u-t-i-l-i-z-a-t-i-o-n
.. ie : fat and heat
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Metabolic Edge For Low Carbohydrate Diets: All Calories Are NOT Alike

Thermodynamic Edge For Low Carbohydrate Diets: SUNY Downstate
Researchers Say All Calories Are NOT Alike

In a paper published in Nutrition Journal (Open Access, available
without subscription at http://www.nutritionj.com/home), two
researchers from SUNY Downstate Medical Center show that low
carbohydrate, high protein diets can be expected to be more effective
than low fat diets, going against long standing prejudice of the
nutritional community, which has claimed that only calories count.

(PRWEB) July 31, 2004 -- "There are numerous examples of low
carbohydrate diets being more effective than low fat diets with the
same number of calories. It doesn't always happen but it can
happen," said Dr. Richard Feinman of the Department of Biochemistry.
"The nutritional establishment has been reluctant to accept this,
because they say it violates the law of thermodynamics. However, they
never seriously look at the thermodynamics, which not only says its
possible, but it is to be expected." he added.

In their paper, Dr. Feinman and Dr. Eugene J. Fine explain that
thermodynamics is as much about efficiency as it is about energy
conservation. Carbohydrate is an efficient fuel, whereas protein is
not. On a low carbohydrate/high protein diet, even though total energy
is conserved, more energy is wasted as heat, a process known as
thermogenesis. This energy comes from burning fat.

The researchers stress that "the human body is not a storage locker.
It is a machine and the efficiency of the machine is controlled by
hormones and enzymes. Carbohydrates increase insulin and other hormones
that regulate enzymes, leading to storage rather than burning of
fat."

"Of course, people are different" said the authors, "but many
people are sensitive to the effects of carbohydrates and for them, a
low carb diet is going to work well."

The practical point is that getting rid of the idea that "a calorie
is a calorie" opens the door for serious research into what kind of
diets will be most effective and which people will benefit most.
"This is important," they explain "because millions of people
are seriously trying to lose weight on low carbohydrate diets, and
instead of being given directions on the best way to do this, they have
been largely discouraged by health professionals and self-appointed
expert groups. The obesity epidemic is too important to allow this to
happen."

Note to editors/reporters: You can read the entire scientific paper by
going to http://www.nutritionj.com/home and clicking on "Provisional
PDF" at the bottom of the headline.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/7/prweb145415.htm

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 18 Jan 2007 07:30 GMT
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> The word delusional .. has connotations .. to it ..

Here it is being used with meaning. The First Law of Thermodynamics
neither belongs to me nor has it ever been broken by human efforts.

Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung
Cardiologist, Atlanta, Georgia, USA
http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit

As for knowing who are the very elect, these you will know by the
unconditional love they have for everyone including their enemies
(Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love
ironjustice@aol.com - 22 Jan 2007 21:28 GMT
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote: Here it is being used with meaning. The
First Law of Thermodynamics
> neither belongs to me nor has it ever been broken by human efforts.<<

So you are STILL .. holding TO .. "no difference in metabolism .. heat
versus fat .. PRODUCTION" .. in .. "different people" ..?

Pound for pound of 'different' .. foods .. ?

Metabolic Edge For Low Carbohydrate Diets: All Calories Are NOT Alike

Thermodynamic Edge For Low Carbohydrate Diets: SUNY Downstate
Researchers Say All Calories Are NOT Alike

In a paper published in Nutrition Journal (Open Access, available
without subscription at http://www.nutritionj.com/home), two
researchers from SUNY Downstate Medical Center show that low
carbohydrate, high protein diets can be expected to be more effective
than low fat diets, going against long standing prejudice of the
nutritional community, which has claimed that only calories count.

(PRWEB) July 31, 2004 -- "There are numerous examples of low
carbohydrate diets being more effective than low fat diets with the
same number of calories. It doesn't always happen but it can
happen," said Dr. Richard Feinman of the Department of Biochemistry.
"The nutritional establishment has been reluctant to accept this,
because they say it violates the law of thermodynamics. However, they
never seriously look at the thermodynamics, which not only says its
possible, but it is to be expected." he added.

In their paper, Dr. Feinman and Dr. Eugene J. Fine explain that
thermodynamics is as much about efficiency as it is about energy
conservation. Carbohydrate is an efficient fuel, whereas protein is
not. On a low carbohydrate/high protein diet, even though total energy
is conserved, more energy is wasted as heat, a process known as
thermogenesis. This energy comes from burning fat.

The researchers stress that "the human body is not a storage locker.
It is a machine and the efficiency of the machine is controlled by
hormones and enzymes. Carbohydrates increase insulin and other hormones

that regulate enzymes, leading to storage rather than burning of
fat."

"Of course, people are different" said the authors, "but many
people are sensitive to the effects of carbohydrates and for them, a
low carb diet is going to work well."

The practical point is that getting rid of the idea that "a calorie
is a calorie" opens the door for serious research into what kind of
diets will be most effective and which people will benefit most.
"This is important," they explain "because millions of people
are seriously trying to lose weight on low carbohydrate diets, and
instead of being given directions on the best way to do this, they have

been largely discouraged by health professionals and self-appointed
expert groups. The obesity epidemic is too important to allow this to
happen."

Note to editors/reporters: You can read the entire scientific paper by
going to http://www.nutritionj.com/home and clicking on "Provisional
PDF" at the bottom of the headline.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/7/prweb145415.htm

Who loves ya.
Tom

Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com

Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/a3cc3

DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

> Prayerfully in Christ's amazing love,
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> (Matthew 5:44-45, 1 Corinthians 13:3, James 2:14-17).
> http://HeartMDPhD.com/Love
 
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