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Medical Forum / General / General / August 2006

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Aging population causes big problems -- Let's hear your bullshit "solutions"!

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imbibe@mindspring.com (David Polewka) - 27 Jun 2006 06:54 GMT
http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/money/20060623/hungary.art.htm

Hungary faces economic plight
Once-bright future now looks cloudy
By David J. Lynch

Once an impressive post-communist success, Hungary now finds itself
a leading contender to become the next emerging-markets disaster.

The Budapest stock market has plunged more than 22% since May 5
as global investors reawakened to the risk involved in developing
nations. Towering twin deficits in both its government budget and
current account make Hungary especially vulnerable.

Swollen by heavy social security payments for a rapidly aging society,
this year's budget deficit will equal 10% of Hungary's gross domestic
product. The red ink in the current account, the broadest measure of
an economy's trade performance, is expected to reach a staggering
9% of the economy.

[.........]

But among Hungarian voters, there is little political support for
curbing the runaway social spending at the heart of the problem -
and there is likely to be even less in the future, says Christian
Stracke
of Credit Sights, a London-based financial research firm.

A steady decline in the number of working-age people will put an
implicit ceiling on economic growth and thus complicate the govern-
ment's effort to generate sufficient revenue. Today, there are roughly
20% more Hungarians 50 and older than there are workers between
20 and 39 years old. In 2016, there will be 38% more, ensuring plenty
of support for generous government spending, says Stracke.
.
.
--
Blair P. Houghton - 27 Jun 2006 07:42 GMT
Your attitude implies your idea of a solution:  make the elderly work.
Or kill them and sell their parts.  Or just boil them for food.  Or
something.  Just so long as no "social solutions" are attempted.

--Blair
David James Polewka - 27 Jun 2006 10:36 GMT
>Your attitude implies your idea of a solution:  make the elderly work.
>Or kill them and sell their parts.  Or just boil them for food.  Or
>something.  Just so long as no "social solutions" are attempted.
>
>--Blair

You gonna write a letter to the editor, or whistle Dixie!?!
.
.
--

=========================
"Endeavor to persevere"
=========================
marcia - 27 Jun 2006 14:18 GMT
> Your attitude implies your idea of a solution:  make the elderly work.
> Or kill them and sell their parts.  Or just boil them for food.  Or
> something.  Just so long as no "social solutions" are attempted.
>
> --Blair

Heaven forbid we should value humans over money.
imbibe@mindspring.com (David Polewka) - 27 Jun 2006 21:29 GMT
> > Your attitude implies your idea of a solution:  make the elderly work.
> > Or kill them and sell their parts.  Or just boil them for food.  Or
> > something.  Just so long as no "social solutions" are attempted.
>
> Heaven forbid we should value humans over money.

How about future generations?  They're human, too!
Sustainability in perpetuity!
.
.
--
Blair P. Houghton - 28 Jun 2006 01:25 GMT
> > > Your attitude implies your idea of a solution:  make the elderly work.
> > > Or kill them and sell their parts.  Or just boil them for food.  Or
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> How about future generations?  They're human, too!
> Sustainability in perpetuity!

So now you're eschewing your right-wing "finders-keepers" policy?

--Blair
imbibe@mindspring.com (David Polewka) - 29 Jun 2006 07:39 GMT
> > > Heaven forbid we should value humans over money.
> >
> > How about future generations?  They're human, too!
> > Sustainability in perpetuity!
>
> So now you're eschewing your right-wing "finders-keepers" policy?

"I love to whistle Dixie!" -- Blare
.
.
--
Marcia - 29 Jun 2006 17:53 GMT
> > > > Heaven forbid we should value humans over money.
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> "I love to whistle Dixie!" -- Blare

So what do you plan to do once you've outlived *your* usefulness? I
assume you'll be returning your Social Security check to the
government, for the benefit of future generations, right? And if a
medical problem leaves you with no personal savings, and your family
decides you're a liability, you will... do... what?
imbibe@mindspring.com (David Polewka) - 29 Jun 2006 18:18 GMT
> > marcia wrote:
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> medical problem leaves you with no personal savings, and your family
> decides you're a liability, you will... do... what?

Letters to the Editor, Durham (NC) Herald-Sun

Winnowing by flu

  I enrolled at MIT in 1970, but dropped out in 1971 because
I decided to be a generalist and look at the big picture,
instead of specializing in a narrow field. MIT doesn't offer
degrees in "seeing the big picture."
  As I see it, after 35 years of looking, sustainability of the
global economy is the prime question of the day. Lowering
fuel consumption is vital to making the economy sustainable.
A good way to use less fuel would be to have suburbanites
move back in to the cities, so they wouldn't have to drive
so much.
  The inner city poor would have to be relocated to make room.
First, we would have to legalize drugs to take away the black
market jobs. Then, we would need to offer them jobs and
housing on farms and factories outside the cities. That way,
more food and goods could be produced locally, for additional
fuel savings.
  But if the population keeps increasing, all bets are off. No,
we have to freeze, and eventually decrease the population, too.
A good starting point would be to stop suppressing influenza.
To those who would object, I point out that we're living much
better today than even royalty did centuries ago. There should
be no complaints about having limits to longevity. There are
other creatures and future generations to think about here too.
Sustainability is all about justice, not "just us."

DAVID POLEWKA
Chapel Hill
March 15, 2006
.
.
--
Marcia - 29 Jun 2006 18:49 GMT
> > > marcia wrote:
> > > >
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> Chapel Hill
> March 15, 2006

I think you should have stayed in college.

Surely you don't consider this a workable plan? This is a joke, isn't
it?

If not, you still don't mention what your *personal* contribution will
be improving "sustainability" for future generations.
Kent Paul Dolan - 30 Jun 2006 15:51 GMT
> Pollutka <imbibe@mindspring.com> wrote:

[el snippo de garbage]
>> DAVID POLEWKA
>> Chapel Hill
>> March 15, 2006

> I think you should have stayed in college.

Why inflict his idiocy on undergraduates?

> Surely you don't consider this a workable plan?

Surely he does, and has been flogging this idiocy
and variants of it for many years now.

> This is a joke, isn't it?

Its author is a joke, the mass murder he proposes
to be done by force of government control is very,
very real. That he _also_ pretends to be a fan of
limited government makes the jest even more stale.

> If not, you still don't mention what your
> *personal* contribution will be improving
> "sustainability" for future generations.

Challenged by many to lead the way to reducing
the useless fraction of the population by his
personal example of committing suicide, Pollutka
goes into his blue-butted baboon dance of denial,
attempting to distract the reader from Pollutka's
utter hypocrisy in recommending for others a path
he will not follow himself ("force onto others
what you refuse to undergo yourself", the precise
anthesis of the Golden Rule he claims to espouse).

He has _NO_ plan of increasing sustainability,
all his plans involve mass murder as the only plan
of population control acceptable to him.

These are his counterproposals to proposals that
governments provide cheap and freely accessible
individually-chosen birth control technology.

He despises the latter plan due to his hypocritical
claim to support limited government.

He only supports limiting the powers of government
when it isn't carrying out one of his mad schemes,
fomenting pandemics by stamping out use of
vaccination.

It helps in understanding David James Polewka to
Google up his writings about his long addiction to
alcohol, his subsequent addiction to Alcoholics
Anonymous "pop religion" brainwashing, his panic
over sufficient taxation to support social services
(such as birth control services) appropriate for the
large, complex society in which we live.

Based only on his writings, to Usenet and elsewhere,
he suffers so profoundly from alcoholic dementia
that he has lost all access to rational thought,
logic, functional literacy, morals, ethics, or a
sense of proportion.

He is one of those Usenet plagues best kept
quarantined in a killfile, and once there, ignored.

Even his user-ID, "imbibe", merely celebrates all
the brain cells he left washed away at the bottom
of bottles of alcohol.

HTH

xanthian.
Marcia - 30 Jun 2006 22:35 GMT
> > Pollutka <imbibe@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Why inflict his idiocy on undergraduates?

LOL. I meant back when he dropped out of MIT (assuming that's true).
I'm sure campus security wouldn't let him anywhere near a classroom
now.

And the sad thing is... he lives near one of the best public
universities in the country.

> Based only on his writings, to Usenet and elsewhere,
> he suffers so profoundly from alcoholic dementia
> that he has lost all access to rational thought,
> logic, functional literacy, morals, ethics, or a
> sense of proportion.

I honestly believed it was a joke.

> He is one of those Usenet plagues best kept
> quarantined in a killfile, and once there, ignored.

Yes, but since this is my first encounter with him, he's still a tad
amusing. I'm sure that'll wear thin quickly.

> Even his user-ID, "imbibe", merely celebrates all
> the brain cells he left washed away at the bottom
> of bottles of alcohol.

...with the last one circling the drain...

> HTH
>
> xanthian.

Yeah, it helps. Thanks for the heads up. :)

marcia
The Trucker - 30 Jun 2006 23:51 GMT
The only way to solve this problem is increased productivity and higher
wages.  What justification will the current working population have to
begrudge the older people they must support if the work they must
perform in support of themselves, their families, AND the old coots
is less than the old coots had to do to raise them and educate them
so they could use the new technology to reduce their work load
(even as they produce enough for all).

Signature

"I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers
of society but the people themselves; and
if we think them not enlightened enough to
exercise their control with a wholesome
discretion, the remedy is not to take it from
them, but to inform their discretion by
education." - Thomas Jefferson
http://GreaterVoice.org

Blair P. Houghton - 01 Jul 2006 04:04 GMT
> The only way to solve this problem is increased productivity and higher
> wages.

that only solves it for everyone

the people currently making the decisions don't want everyone to have
the solution

they want to shift the income curve until it's so steep that slavery is
a promotion for American workers
Kent Paul Dolan - 01 Jul 2006 20:03 GMT
> And the sad thing is... he lives near one of the
> best public universities in the country.

Thanks, that's where I got my Math BS, that's where
my son got his ME in Teaching English, that's where
my daughter is working on her CS PhD. We rather like
it.

>> Based only on his writings, to Usenet and
>> elsewhere, he suffers so profoundly from
>> alcoholic dementia that he has lost all access to
>> rational thought, logic, functional literacy,
>> morals, ethics, or a sense of proportion.

> I honestly believed it was a joke.

If only it were. The sad thing is that around 1% of
Usenet is gullible enough to see merit in his mush.

>> He is one of those Usenet plagues best kept
>> quarantined in a killfile, and once there,
>> ignored.

> Yes, but since this is my first encounter with
> him, he's still a tad amusing. I'm sure that'll
> wear thin quickly.

Oh, I've been trading barbs with him for about 20
years, and watched his mental state deteriorate
severely over that time, not that it was healthy at
the beginning.  He's an acquired taste, let's admit
that. I like him for his voluntary punching bag
status.

>> Even his user-ID, "imbibe", merely celebrates all
>> the brain cells he left washed away at the bottom
>> of bottles of alcohol.

> ...with the last one circling the drain...

The ringing guffaws in response to that one
irritated my TV-watching fiancee a _lot_!

>> HTH

> Yeah, it helps. Thanks for the heads up. :)

I do try.

xanthian.
Marcia - 01 Jul 2006 20:14 GMT
> > And the sad thing is... he lives near one of the
> > best public universities in the country.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> my daughter is working on her CS PhD. We rather like
> it.

My part of the country (originally), too, although I went to State due
to lackadaisical study habits in high school. By the time I caught on
to the GPA thing, UNC had a two-year waiting list for female transfer
students (something about the male-to-female undergrad ratio), so I
transferred to Ohio State, instead. OSU's a good school, but it ain't
UNC.

This was back during the Michael Jordan (and Jim Valvano) era, BTW. I
always believed ol' Jimmy recruited straight from the Polk Youth
Center--sure you know what I mean.

I'm envious of you and your family. Excellent university, and not a bad
sports program. ;)  

Go Tarheels!

marcia
Kent Paul Dolan - 01 Jul 2006 21:12 GMT
> My part of the country (originally), too, although I went to State due
> to lackadaisical study habits in high school.

I took one class at State, Differential Geometry, my only B among
five math classes that summer. There's nothing wrong with the
quality of education at State, and they have some world class
centers of excellence there.

But I and mine were military brats, the only connection with that
part of the country was my first wife, the kids' mother, who was
from Robersonville, a little town 120 miles east of UNC in the
flatlands. I met her at UNC because the Navy sent me to school
there.

> This was back during the Michael Jordan (and Jim Valvano) era,

My group and I watch Phil Ford from the bleachers, which with
the four corners offense making other teams tear out their hair
was probably equally fun. That's what got the shot clock added
to the game.

                     Cheers!

                    xanthian.
                        --
                 Kent Paul Dolan
 MT1(SS), US Navy and LCDR, USNOAA Corps, Retired

 [overlong URL links are shown below on multiple
 lines, marked by terminating hyphens; join them
 together by hand in the obvious way to use them]

                my email addresses
               <xanthian@well.com>
             <xanthian_kpd@yahoo.com>

                   my web sites
        http://www.well.com/user/xanthian/
     http://www.anycities.com/user/xanthian/
     http://www.stormpages.com/user/xanthian/

   If you're shopping for software talent, see:
                my current resume
http://www.well.com/user/xanthian/SkinnyResume.txt
      supplemental materials to that resume
  http://www.well.com/user/xanthian/resume.html

    I most enjoy programming, today, in Java,
            a very well designed tool.
 My two year "teach myself Java" obsession in an
early, one sixth current size public version, is:
    http://www.well.com/user/xanthian/java/ -
                TravellerDoc.html

  See also MovieScheduler, my much more modest,
    latest released genetic algorithm project
    http://www.anycities.com/user/xanthian/ -
        MovieScheduler/MovieScheduler.html

   Other Java code toys are also visible here:
     http://www.well.com/user/xanthian/java/

   Other, older code in several other languages
                    sits here:
  http://www.well.com/user/xanthian/public/code/

   Seeking low-glitz web design help? I've made
   hundreds of very plain web pages for my own
   use, and a few dozen for the use of others,
  for example, this site for my hiking partner:
       http://www.geocities.com/mjwillert2

    A recent modest web site I've designed and
     implemented for myself can be seen here:
 http://www.well.com/user/xanthian/link_pages/ -
           GimpStuff/GimpResources.html
imbibe@mindspring.com (David Polewka) - 02 Jul 2006 00:52 GMT
> Thanks, that's where I got my Math BS, that's where
> my son got his ME in Teaching English, that's where
> my daughter is working on her CS PhD. We rather like it.

All specialists, NOT qualified for big picture issues.

> If only it were. The sad thing is that around 1% of
> Usenet is gullible enough to see merit in his mush.

The percentage who ARE qualified for big picture issues.

> Oh, I've been trading barbs with him for about 20
> years, and watched his mental state deteriorate
> severely over that time, not that it was healthy at
> the beginning.

Lazyass, chickenshit, blowhard atheist on prozac.
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan - 02 Jul 2006 19:22 GMT
> atheist on prozac.

Welbutrin(*), actually.  I was on Prozac, but it made
me act like you do now, and the doctor said there
wasn't any point in me taking drugs that made my
mental health _worse_, the world already had
enough megalomaniacs, so he changed the
prescription to two better antidepressants.

xanthian.

(*)Depacote, too, when it comes to that.
imbibe@mindspring.com (David Polewka) - 04 Jul 2006 08:54 GMT
> LOL. I meant back when he dropped out of MIT
> (assuming that's true).

http://alumweb.mit.edu/classes/1974/MissingPersons.html
.
.
--
imbibe@mindspring.com (David Polewka) - 30 Jun 2006 19:51 GMT
> I think you should have stayed in college.
>
> Surely you don't consider this a workable plan?
> This is a joke, isn't it?

What we have now is not sustainable, and you're
not offering a better plan!

> If not, you still don't mention what your *personal* contribution
> will be improving "sustainability" for future generations.

It's not about me!   It's about all of us, and making
the whole thing sustainable, in perpetuity!
.
.
--
Marcia - 30 Jun 2006 22:27 GMT
> > I think you should have stayed in college.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> What we have now is not sustainable, and you're
> not offering a better plan!

Here's an idea for fuel problems: hydrogen cell technology. So, okay...
it's not as "original" as your solution, but it's better for the
environment and doesn't rely on dwindling supplies of politically
entangled fossil fuels.

How about the U.S. starts manufacturing again? We have virtually
nothing to export, so our trade deficit grows larger every day. We're
at the mercy of other nations for most of our goods.

How can we implement these ideas? Beats the hell out of me.

There's no way *I*, or any other single human (including you) can solve
all the world's problems. Your plan would be impossible to execute and,
even if it could be managed (which, let me emphasize, *it can't*),
raises a frightening number of human rights issues. No one will adopt
it. It's crazy.

> > If not, you still don't mention what your *personal* contribution
> > will be improving "sustainability" for future generations.
>
> It's not about me!   It's about all of us, and making
> the whole thing sustainable, in perpetuity!

It most certainly IS about you. It's about you, me, and everyone else
out there doing what *little* we can to improve our small corner of the
world... that means volunteering your time, making a career in an
industry that benefits mankind (okay, a little late for you),
recycling, spreading daisies and sunshine... IOW, use your talents,
whatever they are. Address the small problems, because the larger ones
are WAY beyond the scope of your control.

I ask again: What are you, personally, going to do to better the world?
You've hatched all these monumental plans, yet you seem to want to
dodge personal responsibility for making even the smallest
contribution.

So, what are you--PERSONALLY--going to do?
imbibe@mindspring.com (David Polewka) - 01 Jul 2006 02:40 GMT
> Here's an idea for fuel problems: hydrogen cell technology. So, okay...
> it's not as "original" as your solution, but it's better for the
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> at the mercy of other nations for most of our goods.
> How can we implement these ideas? Beats the hell out of me.

How much time have you spent thinking about it?

> So, what are you--PERSONALLY--going to do?

I spent the last 35 years reading, studying, observing, thinking,
discussing the subject, instead of giving up in high school,
like you and everybody else!  So, who put --YOU-- in charge?!?
.
.
--
Blair P. Houghton - 01 Jul 2006 04:03 GMT
> I spent the last 35 years reading, studying, observing, thinking,
> discussing the subject, instead of giving up in high school,
> like you and everybody else!  So, who put --YOU-- in charge?!?

You spent the last 35 years scrambling letters 24/7 while listening
to Rush Limbaugh.

--Blair
Marcia - 01 Jul 2006 15:45 GMT
> > Here's an idea for fuel problems: hydrogen cell technology. So, okay...
> > it's not as "original" as your solution, but it's better for the
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> How much time have you spent thinking about it?

I've thought about various social and economic *problems,* but, unlike
you, I'm neither arrogant enough, nor crazy enough, to think I can
solve all the world's problems. I've spent *my* time helping in areas
where I could actually have an impact.

> > So, what are you--PERSONALLY--going to do?
>
> I spent the last 35 years reading, studying, observing, thinking,
> discussing the subject, instead of giving up in high school,
> like you and everybody else!  So, who put --YOU-- in charge?!?

Oh, I have to be in charge to challenge your thinking?

Where did you get the idea that everyone else gave up in high school?
Most people just didn't fry their brains with drugs and booze and have
a clue about reality.

You might have better ideas if you'd gotten a *real* education. It
sounds like you've basically done *nothing* for the past 35 years, and
*nothing* is what you have to show for it.

Take your meds, like the doctor said.. :)
Doc John - 01 Jul 2006 17:08 GMT
http://naturalhealthperspective.com/
imbibe@mindspring.com (David Polewka) - 02 Jul 2006 00:33 GMT
> I've thought about various social and economic *problems,* but, unlike
> you, I'm neither arrogant enough, nor crazy enough, to think I can
> solve all the world's problems. I've spent *my* time helping in areas
> where I could actually have an impact.

     We can't all be heroes because somebody has
       to sit on the curb and clap as they go by.
               -- Will Rogers, 1879-1935

> Where did you get the idea that everyone else gave up in high school?

Because I've talked to many people over the years, and most
want to talk about anything but the big problems.   They say
that war is inevitable and there's nothing you can do about it.
And they make jokes about trying to deal with the big picture.
And the politicians only care about votes in the next election.
That's how I know everyone else gave up.
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan - 02 Jul 2006 04:30 GMT
> They say
> that war is inevitable and there's nothing you can do about it.

Well, it's certainly inevitable if some moron foments plagues
that will differentially murder off most ot the third world where
supportive medical care during illness is unaffordable, while
leaving the first world relatively unscathed.

I'd say "9-11"^googleplex should just about cover sizing the
resulting mess.

HTH

xanthian.
imbibe@mindspring.com (David Polewka) - 02 Jul 2006 09:26 GMT
> > They say that war is inevitable and there's
> > nothing you can do about it.
>
> Well, it's certainly inevitable if ...

As our numbers increase, there will be more conflicts at all
levels -- local, regional, national, international and global --
that wouldn't happen if population were stabilized.
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan - 02 Jul 2006 18:28 GMT
>> imbibe@mindspring.com (David Polewka) bloviated
>> from a bountiful bottles 'bibling bewildered
>> brain:

>>> They say that war is inevitable and there's
>>> nothing you can do about it.

> > Well, it's certainly inevitable if ...

You dropped a meme, here, you butterfingered
blue-butted baboon:

...if morons like Pollutka cause wars by fomenting
plagues through denial of first world vaccination
technology, plagues that differentially affect
populations based on the ability of their medical
technology to sustain the recovery of plague
victims, an act which would look highly suspiciously
like an attempt by the first world to commit
genocide upon the third world.

That would hardly be seen by anyone anywhere as an
exercise of any form of ethical behavior, surely not
as something that might be done by anyone following,
say, a golden rule.

> As our numbers increase, there will be more
> conflicts at all levels -- local, regional,
> national, international and global -- that
> wouldn't happen if population were stabilized.

That is a totally baseless supposition, refuted by
history. Humankind have been having wars since the
world human population was perhaps 2% of the current
size.

"Stabilizing" population wouldn't help at all,
because small population is, on the historical
record, absolutely no guarantor of peace.

HTH

xanthian
David James Polewka - 10 Aug 2006 07:49 GMT
>> As our numbers increase, there will be more
>> conflicts at all levels -- local, regional,
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>because small population is, on the historical
>record, absolutely no guarantor of peace.

The only difference between now and any
other time in history is the level of technology.
But that's a HELLUVA difference.  Comparing
a small population having modern technology
to a population from way back when is "apples
and oranges," fuckbubble!
.
.
--
=========================
"Endeavor to persevere"
=========================
Kent Paul Dolan - 02 Jul 2006 19:17 GMT
> Because I've talked to many people over the years, and most
> want to talk about anything but the big problems.

Well, no, mindless drone, they just don't want to talk about them
with _you_, since you give cluelessness an undeserved fame.

xanthian.
imbibe@mindspring.com (David Polewka) - 04 Jul 2006 09:11 GMT
> > How much time have you spent thinking about it?
>
> I've thought about various social and economic *problems,*

HOW MUCH TIME have you spent thinking about them?!?

> but, unlike
> you, I'm neither arrogant enough, nor crazy enough,

Any time a difficult problem comes along, most people
either don't know about it, or give up.  Those who persist
in trying to deal with the problem are always considered
arrogant & crazy by the quitters.  It's a psychological
defense mechanism that allows them to maintain their
sense of pride in spite of the fact that they're quitters.

> to think I can solve all the world's problems.

I never proposed to solve all the world's problems!
I said we need to make the world economy sustainable,
in perpetuity!  Right now, it isn't!

> I've spent *my* time helping in areas
> where I could actually have an impact.

You're a blowhard motormouth, just like
flounder@flounder.com <Kent Dorfman>.
.
.
--
Doc John - 04 Jul 2006 12:07 GMT
http://naturalhealthperspective.com/tutorials/john-kellogg.html
imbibe@mindspring.com (David Polewka) - 05 Jul 2006 00:12 GMT
> You might have better ideas if you'd gotten a *real* education. It
> sounds like you've basically done *nothing* for the past 35 years,
> and *nothing* is what you have to show for it.
>
> Take your meds, like the doctor said.. :)

From:  "marcia" <desi...@insight.rr.com>
To:  "Bipolar Disorder" <Bipolar-Disorder@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Has anyone taken Trileptal or Topamax?
Date: Mon, 08 May 2006

Hi all,

I'm changing mood stabilizers and am down to only 3rd-tier choices
at this point--my doctor says probably Topamax or Trileptal.

I recently tried Lamictal for two months and had a weird paradoxical
reaction to it: it *made* me depressed. Have also done Zyprexa and
Seroquel... the Seroquel for 3 years, and it was a *great* mood
stabilizer, but I gained 60 lbs on it and seemed to have developed
metabolic syndrome, so my pdoc says we're done with that except
for 50 mg at bedtime for sleep.

I have read that Topamax can be great for weight loss, but causes
cognitive problems (which I already have, anyway), but I don't know
much at all about Trileptal, except it is essentially Tegretol with an
extra oxygen molecule, and without the potentially hazardous
side-effects.

If anyone here has ever been on either med, could you please share
your experiences? TIA

Marcia

==========================

From: "deleted" <desi...@insight.rr.com>
Newsgroups: alt.support.attn-deficit
Subject: Re: FAO: Marcia
Date: 27 Jun 2006

Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe wrote:
> You still out there?  All your posts suddenly disappeared from Google.
>
> Kitten

They're not all gone. I'm working on it. I left the ones with the
grants and stuff, in case groups is the only place you have them
stored.

marcia
.
.
--
Marcia - 05 Jul 2006 01:03 GMT
> > You might have better ideas if you'd gotten a *real* education. It
> > sounds like you've basically done *nothing* for the past 35 years,
[quoted text clipped - 50 lines]
> .
> --

LOL. And your point is? I'm very open about having bipolar disorder,
and if you had dug a little deeper, you would find I've mentioned it in
this NG a number of times.

BTW, that post about Lamictal is way out-of-date; I take Neurontin now.
I'm stable on medication and my reality testing is intact, which is
more than I can say for you.

What I find ironic is the people on Usenet *most* likely to stigmatize
the mentally ill are people with their own obvious mental illness. So
much for *your* insight, huh? :)

marcia
imbibe@mindspring.com (David Polewka) - 06 Jul 2006 20:19 GMT
> > From:  "marcia" <desi...@insight.rr.com>
> > To:  "Bipolar Disorder" <Bipolar-Disorder@googlegroups.com>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> and if you had dug a little deeper, you would find I've mentioned it in
> this NG a number of times.

Newsgroups: alt.support.attn-deficit
Subject: Re: Why do ASAD's polymorphous parade of... yadda.. yadda...
yadda...
Date: 5 Jul 2006

Wrangling the cat was no problem; wranging the vet was something else.
My regular vet was closed, so I went to a clinic in a nearby town,
where they quoted $1,300 + change for 2 days of treatment plus meds.
When I told him I couldn't afford anywhere near that kind of money, he
started yelling at me that I was trying to prevent the cat from getting
proper treatment, it wasn't *his* problem that I couldn't afford it,
*he* was acting in the best interest of *the cat*, and no, they didn't
want to work out terms with me on the balance because they didn't know
me, etc. and so on. We probably spent 20 minutes yelling at each other
(which I rarely do) in front of my daughter and half the office staff,
before I picked up poor Bootsie and the estimate, and told him I'd find
treatment somewhere else. >:(
.
.
--
Marcia - 06 Jul 2006 21:56 GMT
> > > From:  "marcia" <desi...@insight.rr.com>
> > > To:  "Bipolar Disorder" <Bipolar-Disorder@googlegroups.com>
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
> .
> --

What kind of conclusion would you like people to draw from *partial*
posts copied from unrelated groups, irrelevant to the present topic,
and taken out of context?

The fact that I can't afford $1,300 to treat a cat with a blocked
urethra suggests what, exactly?

Or perhaps you take issue with my ability to stand up to defensive
bullies?

I notice you snipped the part where I found *another* vet, whom I like
very much, and that the cat is being cared for appropriately. You also
conveniently snipped the part where the new vet agreed the charge was
outrageous and, btw, that the vet I argued with was padding the bill by
adding a bunch of unnecessary tests.

If you have something to say to me, try being direct, instead of hiding
behind bits and pieces of irrelevant posts like a passive-aggressive
coward. I suspect most people are smart enough to see through your
little manipulations.

If you have something real to say, I'm here. Until then, you're a waste
of time, bandwidth, and air.

marcia
imbibe@mindspring.com (David Polewka) - 07 Jul 2006 22:16 GMT
> What kind of conclusion would you like people to draw from *partial*
> posts copied from unrelated groups, irrelevant to the present topic,
> and taken out of context?

From: "imb...@mindspring.com (David Polewka)"
Newsgroups: alt.anagrams
Subject: Re: 2 sides to my prediction...
Date: 6 Jul 2006

Wayne Baisley wrote:

> > The World Cup Finals in Germany
>
> Spoiled Frenchman wrung Italy.
> French lumping Italy and worse.
> A pounding may well stir French.
> Italy gulp down French remains.

CERN: "We splay and fling thorium!"
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan - 07 Jul 2006 23:11 GMT
>> What kind of conclusion would you like people to
>> draw from *partial* posts copied from unrelated
>> groups, irrelevant to the present topic, and
>> taken out of context?

> From: "imb...@mindspring.com (David Polewka)"
> Newsgroups: alt.anagrams
> Wayne Baisley wrote:

>>> The World Cup Finals in Germany

>> Spoiled Frenchman wrung Italy.

>> French lumping Italy and worse.

>> A pounding may well stir French.

>> Italy gulp down French remains.

> CERN: "We splay and fling thorium!"

Yep, Pollutka's lost it entirely. It had to happen,
sooner or later, alcoholic dementia is a progressive
disease, and he's been increasingly irrational in
recent weeks. Not that it's that easy to tell, he's
been pretty irrational for decades now.

Notice too, not only is he trolling his anagrams
where they aren't welcome, not only is he spewing
irrelevant shovelware in response to stuff that
documents what an idiot he's become, a victim of
being unable to deal adequately with the stress his
constant trolling and the responses it elicits
brings upon him, but also he's documenting other
parts of his mental decay.

Notice how inadequate his anagramming is.

The previous author, cluefull, did anagrams that
converted the starting sentence into related
sentences on the same topic, the goal of a good
anagram.

Pollutka is lucky if his anagramming can even make a
sentence, he's never on topic, and most of the time
he'll throw in a handful of wildcards too.

This is the best he can do with a mind so burned by
alcoholic dementia that it is stumbling just to keep
peristalsis running for him.

The sad part, of course, is that he's also too
brainburned to understand how inferior his work is
to the work of the skilled anagrammers, or to listen
when told how unwelcome such dreck is trolled to
unrelated newsgroups.

HTH

xanthian.
imbibe@mindspring.com (David Polewka) - 07 Jul 2006 23:16 GMT
> > From: "imb...@mindspring.com (David Polewka)"
> > Newsgroups: alt.anagrams
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> sooner or later, alcoholic dementia is a progressive
> disease,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_amplifier

Energy amplifier

>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In nuclear physics, an energy amplifier is a novel type of
nuclear power reactor, a subcritical reactor, in which an
energetic particle beam is used to stimulate a reaction,
which in turn releases enough energy to power the
particle accelerator and leave an energy profit for power
generation.

History

The concept is credited to Carlo Rubbia, a nuclear
physicist and former director of Europe's CERN inter-
national nuclear physics lab. He published a proposal
for a power reactor based on a proton cyclotron accel-
erator with a beam energy of 800 MeV to 1 GeV, and
a target with thorium as fuel and lead as a coolant.

Advantages

The concept has several potential advantages over
conventional nuclear fission reactors:

   * Subcritical design means that the reaction could
not run away - if anything went wrong, the reaction
would stop and the reactor would cool down. A melt-
down could however occur if the refrigeration of the
core were lost.

   * Thorium is an abundant element - much more so
than uranium - reducing strategic and political supply
issues and eliminating costly and energy-intensive
isotope separation. There is enough thorium to gen-
erate energy for at least several thousand years at
current consumption rates.

   * The energy amplifier would produce very little
plutonium, so the design is believed to be more pro-
liferation-resistant than conventional nuclear power
(although the question of uranium-233 as nuclear
weapon material must be assessed carefully).

   * The possibility exists of using the reactor to con-
sume plutonium, reducing the dangerously large
world stockpile of the very-long-lived element.

   * Less long-lived radioactive waste is produced -
the waste material would decay after 500 years to
the radioactive level of coal ash.

   * No new science is required; the technologies to
build the energy amplifier have all been demonstrated
in the laboratory. Building an energy amplifier requires
only some engineering effort, not fundamental research
(unlike nuclear fusion proposals).

   * Power generation might be economical compared
to current nuclear reactor designs if the total fuel cycle
and decommissioning costs are considered.

   * The design could work on a relatively small scale,
making it more suitable for countries without a well-
developed power grid system

   * Inherent safety and safe fuel transport could make
the technology more suitable for developing countries
as well as in densely populated areas.

Principle and feasibility

The energy amplifier uses a synchrotron accelerator to
produce a beam of protons. These hit a heavy metal
target such as lead, thorium or uranium and produce
neutrons through the process of spallation. It might be
possible to increase the neutron flux through the use of
a neutron amplifier (a thin film of fissile material sur-
rounding the spallation source[1]). A discussion of
neutron amplification in CANDU reactors can be
viewed at [2] while CANDU is a critical design, many
of the concepts can be applied to a sub-critical system.
Thorium nuclei absorb neutrons, thus breeding fissile
uranium-233, an isotope of uranium which is not found
in nature. Moderated neutrons produce U-233 fission,
releasing energy.

This design is entirely plausible with currently available
technology, but requires more study before it can be
declared both practical and economical.

References

[3] An in-depth review of the Energy Amplifier co-
authored by Rubbia (pdf download available from the
CERN document server)

[4] Christoph Pistner, "Emerging Nuclear Technologies:
The Example of Carlo Rubbia's Energy Amplifier",
International Network of Engineers and Scientists
Against Proliferation
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan - 08 Jul 2006 02:32 GMT
>>> From: "imb...@mindspring.com (David Polewka)"
>>> Newsgroups: alt.anagrams
>>> Wayne Baisley wrote:

>>>> The World Cup Finals in Germany =

>>>> Spoiled Frenchman wrung Italy.

>>>> French lumping Italy and worse.

>>>> A pounding may well stir French.

>>>> Italy gulp down French remains.

>>> CERN: "We splay and fling thorium!"

>> Yep, Pollutka's lost it entirely. It had to
>> happen, sooner or later, alcoholic dementia is a
>> progressive disease,

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_amplifier

Trying to prove my point for me, doofus?

Just what did that bit of shovelware have to do with
a discussion about your ineptness as an anagrammer?

There's no sense trying to blame your mental
inadequacies on radiation, we already have your
testimony that your alcohol abuse is more than
sufficient explanation.

HTH

xanthian.
Harry - 12 Jul 2006 23:30 GMT
> >>> From: "imb...@mindspring.com (David Polewka)"
> >>> Newsgroups: alt.anagrams
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>
> xanthian.

Hello, xanthian,

Come on now. Why donot you adimit youare jealous that you couldnothave
afforded to lose your brains due to booze instead of having had to take
the poorman's way out via masturbation in the gutters of California.

Truly
Blair P. Houghton - 13 Jul 2006 02:06 GMT
> > There's no sense trying to blame your mental
> > inadequacies on radiation, we already have your
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> afforded to lose your brains due to booze instead of having had to take
> the poorman's way out via masturbation in the gutters of California.

K*nt never had a brain.  He's got some other thing that has to be
brought into this plane of existence via chemisty.  Look up
"thorazine".  Understand then how little of what he does can be blamed
on his own ego.

--Blair
Kent Paul Dolan - 13 Jul 2006 04:30 GMT
>> Come on now. Why donot you adimit youare jealous
>> that you couldnothave afforded to lose your
>> brains due to booze

> K*nt never had a brain.

Having to turn to hate-spewing Spammi for moral
support, Blear?

That probably consitutes a new level of desperation
for t.b; even Pollutka doesn't stoop that low.

You've lost all your pride along with all your
arguments, I see.

Here's hoping your guts still remember which
direction they're suppose to be running, when they
are recovered from wherever you lost them.

xanthian.
Harry - 13 Jul 2006 13:08 GMT
Hello,

NOTE

Kent Paul Dolan, the psycho troll, has actually set himself
up as the proper peer and spokesmen of the people of talk.bizarre.
Besure to bow down to him and while down there rembemer to kiss his
feet, after all they graced the gutters of California - his claim to
fame . . .

Truly

wrote:

> >> Come on now. Why donot you adimit youare jealous
> >> that you couldnothave afforded to lose your
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> xanthian.
Blair P. Houghton - 13 Jul 2006 18:11 GMT
> >> Come on now. Why donot you adimit youare jealous
> >> that you couldnothave afforded to lose your
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Having to turn to hate-spewing Spammi for moral
> support, Blear?

Hardly.  I merely corrected his mistaken impression that your
posts involve the use of what most people would consider brain
tissue when, in fact, they involve what neurologists fondly call
vegetation.

Take.

Your.

Meds.

--Blair
Earle Jones - 08 Jul 2006 00:38 GMT
> >> What kind of conclusion would you like people to
> >> draw from *partial* posts copied from unrelated
[quoted text clipped - 56 lines]
>
> xanthian.

*
A few years ago, David Polewka said that he did not use a
computer-based anagram program -- he worked by hand.  His work has
always, in my opinion, been indicative of that.  His anagrams
frequently include several short words (two letters), initials,
strange names, and are in general, off-topic.

No need to refer to him as 'Pollutka' however.

Creating truly clever anagrams by hand is, in my opinion, next to
impossible.

It isn't entirely obvious that the letters of my name:

Earle Douglas Jones

contains 'Los Angeles', or 'songleader'.

Or that 'The Star-Spangled Banner' contains 'breathless'.

earle
*
Kent Paul Dolan - 08 Jul 2006 02:27 GMT
> No need to refer to him as 'Pollutka' however.

Well, I prefer to call him "the dancing blue-butted
baboon of talk.bizarre", but "Pollutka" acts as a
shorthand calling to the minds of onlookers his
decades long massive off topic trolling of
newsgroups all over the net with his horrid
anagrams, and with his insane and offensive plans
for social change.

Oh, and I take no offense at being called "not a
nice person"; dangerous imbeciles like Pollutka
cannot effectively be countered with kid-glove
tactics; constant ridicule works best.

HTH

xanthian.

Oh, and really, perfectly acceptable anagrams can
be created without automated tools, it just takes an
adequate vocabulary, and more patience than most
anagrammers care to exert.
Blair P. Houghton - 13 Jul 2006 18:13 GMT
> Creating truly clever anagrams by hand is, in my opinion, next to
> impossible.

Which is why he doesn't.

Anyone who thinks he does is simply credulous.

--Blair
imbibe@mindspring.com (David Polewka) - 09 Jul 2006 07:57 GMT
> > From: "imb...@mindspring.com (David Polewka)"
> > Newsgroups: alt.anagrams
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Notice how inadequate his anagramming is.

You don't defeat an anagram with objections
or criticism!  You defeat an anagram with a
BETTER anagram!
.
.
--
Blair P. Houghton - 09 Jul 2006 18:36 GMT
> > Notice how inadequate his anagramming is.
>
> You don't defeat an anagram with objections
> or criticism!  You defeat an anagram with a
> BETTER anagram!

You defeat an anagram by getting a life.

--Blair
Marcia - 09 Jul 2006 20:10 GMT
> > > Notice how inadequate his anagramming is.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> --Blair
Harry - 13 Jul 2006 22:01 GMT
> > > Notice how inadequate his anagramming is.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> --Blair

Hello,

Why is it that no matter what someone does, someone insists that person
that is doing it needs to "get a life"? I think the person thinking
that everyone with something to do besides what that opinionated person
thinks is in need of "getting a life", is the one that needs to "get a
life". In your opionion exactly what (name by name, not definition)
whould constitute having "a life"?

If youare looking for perfection look to Jesus; if youare looking for
Father (God) look into your fellow Man, thus yourself.

Truly
Kent Paul Dolan - 02 Jul 2006 19:12 GMT
> I spent the last 35 years reading, studying,
> observing, thinking, discussing the subject,

All using a defective, alcohol damaged brain, of
course, so the result isn't even as good as random
monkey typing would be. All you got out of that
wasted 35 years is 31,557,600 copies of telling
yourself "put me in charge".

> instead of giving up in high school, like you and
> everybody else!

Lacking the wisdom to realize you had nothing to
contribute, you went right on contributing your
nothing, loudly and insistently.

Why is that superior to someone who knows when to
hold her peace?

>  So, who put --YOU-- in charge?!?

Someone considerably wiser than the incompetent
drunk who put you "in charge" based on wishful
thinking, that's for sure.

xanthian, clapping time.
imbibe@mindspring.com (David Polewka) - 04 Jul 2006 09:01 GMT
> There's no way *I*, or any other single human (including you)
> can solve all the world's problems.

I never proposed to solve all the world's problems!
I said we need to make the world economy sustainable,
in perpetuity!  Right now, it isn't!
.
.
--
Harry - 04 Jul 2006 15:21 GMT
Hello imbibe:

I wonder if our boring psycho troll's habitual, Internet insulting
of his betters has dawned on anyone yet that even if anyone
has destroyed brain cells with booze or otherwise, they all
still have more cells left than our psycho troll ever had to begin with
. . .

Truly

> > There's no way *I*, or any other single human (including you)
> > can solve all the world's problems.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> .
> --
Kent Paul Dolan - 07 Jul 2006 01:04 GMT
> > There's no way *I*, or any other single human (including you)
> > can solve all the world's problems.

> I never proposed to solve all the world's problems!
> I said we need to make the world economy sustainable,
> in perpetuity!  Right now, it isn't!

Nor can it ever be, you, a fool, have set yourself a fool's errand:

http://www.y5b.com/

Not that doing so is any change of behavior by you.

xanthian.
imbibe@mindspring.com (David Polewka) - 07 Jul 2006 05:05 GMT
> > I never proposed to solve all the world's problems!
> > I said we need to make the world economy sustainable,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> http://www.y5b.com/
> Not that doing so is any change of behavior by you.

Here, you dropped this:

Yet a future of whirlwind growth nags at him. He worries that
it ultimately will harm the quality of life of future generations.

"I think I can tolerate it in my lifetime," he says, "but I feel
very sorry for my grandchildren.
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan - 07 Jul 2006 21:10 GMT
>>> I never proposed to solve all the world's
>>> problems!  I said we need to make the world
>>> economy sustainable, in perpetuity!  Right now,
>>> it isn't!

>> Nor can it ever be, you, a fool, have set
>> yourself a fool's errand:

>> http://www.y5b.com/

>> Not that doing so is any change of behavior by
>> you.

> Here, you dropped this:

> Yet a future of whirlwind growth nags at him. He
> worries that it ultimately will harm the quality
> of life of future generations.

> "I think I can tolerate it in my lifetime," he
> says, "but I feel very sorry for my grandchildren.

Self-evidently, you've entirely lost your mind.

That answer had _what_ to do with the sun burning
out, one more time?

More and more, you're just tossing any trash you
have on hand into your responses, as if your
drooling has completely obscured your computer
screen.

Or maybe, what is happening with you is Korsakov's
Syndrome, fairly frequent in long term drunks, where
short term memory completely vanishes, and you can't
remember what you're doing from moment to moment, so
you think you're answering one posting but really
you're answering a later one.

Yeah, that looks exactly like what's happening with
you.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Korsakov%27s.Syndrome

Giggle. That couldn't have happened to a more
deserving megalomaniac troll than you, Pollutka.

FWIW

xanthian.
Marcia - 07 Jul 2006 21:48 GMT
> >>> I never proposed to solve all the world's
> >>> problems!  I said we need to make the world
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
>
> xanthian.

LOL. He posted half a message about my cat with the blocked urethra. If
you can't dazzle them with rhetoric, confuse the hell out them with
nonsense. Interesting tactic.

marcia
imbibe@mindspring.com (David Polewka) - 10 Jul 2006 09:21 GMT
> > I never proposed to solve all the world's problems!
> > I said we need to make the world economy sustainable,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> http://www.y5b.com/
> Not that doing so is any change of behavior by you.

answers.yahoo.com

OPEN QUESTION:
---ACCEPTING ANSWERS

HOW CAN THE HUMAN RACE SURVIVE
THE NEXT HUNDRED YEARS?
In a world that is in chaos politically, socially and
environmentally, how can the human race sustain
another 100 years?

Additional Details:
Yahoo! Answers staff note: This is the real Stephen Hawking.
Look here for more detail:
http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-d8ph0dcor...

21689 answers

You've already answered this question.
.
.
--
Robert Kolker - 10 Jul 2006 13:08 GMT
>>>I never proposed to solve all the world's problems!
>>>I said we need to make the world economy sustainable,
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> environmentally, how can the human race sustain
> another 100 years?

The same way it has for the previous 250,000 years. If enough people can
eat and reproduce the human race will go on. This does not preclude a
major population crash in parts of the world.

Bob Kolker
imbibe@mindspring.com (David Polewka) - 10 Jul 2006 22:28 GMT
> If enough people can eat and reproduce the
> human race will go on. This does not preclude a
> major population crash in parts of the world.

http://www.enviroliteracy.org/article.php/46.html

Forest Fires

Forest fires can endanger people and wildlife, and control-
ling a burn is expensive, both in terms of manpower and
financial cost. Yet, wildfires are a natural occurrance and
serve important ecosystem functions. Forest landscapes
are dynamic and change in response to variations in climate
and to disturbances from natural sources, such as fires
caused by lightning strikes. Forests respond to these distur-
bances through a natural process called succession, a
recovery process that occurs in predictable stages and
enables forest regeneration.

Many tree species evolve to take advantage of fire, and
periodic burns can contribute to overall forest health. Fires
move through the forest burning lower branches and clear-
ing dead wood from the forest floor. Clearing the forest of
"clutter," as one site puts it, "kick-starts regeneration by
providing ideal growing conditions." It also improves the
forest floor as habitat for many species that prefer rela-
tively open spaces to a dense thicket of brush and dead
branches. After a fire burns down a swath of woodland,
a sequence of ecological responses called "succession"
begins. Amid the charred forest remains, a flourishing of
pioneer species begins, usually quick-growing grasses
and weeds, followed by a steady advance of slower-
growing, taller species of plants. The first trees to emerge
are often small pines, followed by larger pines and finally
by hardwood species such as oak and hickory. The suc-
cession process begins quickly but it can take decades
or even hundreds of years for a forest ecosystem to move
from its early pioneer stage to its climax stage.
Scientists are continuing to study the amazing recovery
in Yellowstone National Park, where nearly 1 million acres
burned in a 1988 forest fire.

Forests in which fires are regularly suppressed can burn
much hotter and more dangerously when a fire finally
breaks out. Without fire, large amounts of underbrush will
accummulate on the forest floor, certain tree species may
not regenerate (oak and pine, for example, need fire to
crack their seeds), and the trees that do flourish become
densely packed. According to the USDA Forest Service,
"Given favorable weather conditions, forest structure, fuel
overload, and other factors, the number of wildland fires
has been growing, getting larger, and gaining in intensity."
In 2004 these conditions contributed to approximately 8.0
million acres of burning vegetation, an enormous increase
when compared to 50 years ago, and largely attributed to
decades of "successful" fire suppression techniques.

As urban areas continue to encroach on forested spaces,
the dangers also increase for humans along what forest
managers term the "wildland-urban interface." It is under-
standable for people who live near forests and who own
forest land to want their property, and their lives, protected
from the ravages of fire. Fire management schemes take
human risk into account, but there are always tradeoffs. In
the past, the focus on suppressing wildfires in order to
protect human communities actually contributed to more
intense blazes that have put human communities at an
even greater risk. But, notes the U.S. Forest Service,
"People are not the only victims of forest fires: wildlife
loses their habitat, hillsides erode into and silt up rivers,
burnt mountains allow floods, and floods wash away
homes and businesses." Current forest management
tactics attempt to balance what is known about forest
health -- i.e. fires help maintain eocosystem balance --
and the danger of uncontrolled burns to human com-
munities. Forest management agencies often use a
combination of containment measures. In a process
called "mechanical thinning" for example, people and
machines manually thin the underbrush that builds up
between fires. It is an attempt at balancing the human
fear of fire (no matter how "controlled"), with both
economic costs and the needs of the forest ecosystem.
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan - 11 Jul 2006 01:04 GMT
>>> I never proposed to solve all the world's problems!
>>> I said we need to make the world economy sustainable,
>>> in perpetuity!  Right now, it isn't!

>> Nor can it ever be, you, a fool, have set yourself a fool's errand:
>> http://www.y5b.com/
>> Not that doing so is any change of behavior by you.

> HOW CAN THE HUMAN RACE SURVIVE
> THE NEXT HUNDRED YEARS?

Apparently your definition of "in perpetuity" isn't that of most
people, just like your definition of "a better solution" fails to
match that of a single other human being on earth.

HTH

xanthian.
imbibe@mindspring.com (David Polewka) - 11 Jul 2006 05:53 GMT
> Apparently your definition of "in perpetuity" isn't that of most
> people, just like your definition of "a better solution" fails to
> match that of a single other human being on earth.

Yet a future of whirlwind growth nags at him. He worries that
it ultimately will harm the quality of life of future generations.

"I think I can tolerate it in my lifetime," he says, "but I feel
very sorry for my grandchildren."
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan - 11 Jul 2006 08:18 GMT
>> Apparently your definition of "in perpetuity"
>> isn't that of most people, just like your
>> definition of "a better solution" fails to match
>> that of a single other human being on earth.

> Yet a future of whirlwind growth nags at him. He
> worries that it ultimately will harm the quality
> of life of future generations.

> "I think I can tolerate it in my lifetime," he
> says, "but I feel very sorry for my
> grandchildren."

Totally non-responsive to the charge that you've
changed "in perpetuity" to "for 100 years", just
more brain rot shovelware from your alcoholic
dementia fractured skull. Oh, and I found a picture
of your situation, that explains visually the origin
of all the drivel you troll netwide:

http://www.explodingdog.com/january2/brainrot.html

Some singing group whose name I've forgotten were
singing about something else, but they might as well
have been describing your situation, locked in your
brain, post-alcoholism, and under the persistent
delusion that you are still able to think despite
having burned most of your mind away:

"Well, I'm down in the bottom,
Down here in jail,
I know my woman love me
But she can't make bail,
No, no, no.
I swear to God she love me
But she just can't go my bail."

HTH

xanthian.

Might have been Koerner, Ray, and Glover. Might not.
imbibe@mindspring.com (David Polewka) - 11 Jul 2006 09:01 GMT
> Totally non-responsive to the charge that you've
> changed "in perpetuity" to "for 100 years",

http://www.americasdebate.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13053
.
.
--
Kent Paul Dolan - 11 Jul 2006 09:38 GMT
>> Totally non-responsive to the charge that you've
>> changed "in perpetuity" to "for 100 years",

> http://www.americasdebate.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13053

...as you slip farther and farther into your dementia,
reposting the same link again and again even though
it has no relationship to the issue that when challenged
on "in perpetuity" you danced your blue-butted baboon
dance away to defend a goal of "for 100 years" instead.

I suppose I should stop bothering with you, at the rate
your mind is rotting away, you'll be in an iron lung soon,
having forgotten how to breathe.

FWIW

xanthian.
Harry - 12 Jul 2006 00:45 GMT
Hello,

Ha! No "iron lung" for a lost soul, nor is there one for a
depraved child whose own father is disgusted by his son's presence.
You poor slanderous, Jew-hated, little Goyem - know thine enemy or
perish as in the state in which you now retire. You are lost xanthian,
full of hate and vengeance. You are absent of love, the creation of
life.
You are dead, Xanthian. No need for you to do one more thing but to
lie down in the ditch and die - give up the ghost, Dolen, give it up .
. .
you are dead and have been for a very long time. You can tell by the
stink of you . . .
+You Hemorrhage-for-Jew http://PAMINIFARM.JEERAN.COM
***right/click for "New Window" will make faulty links work.***
or go to  http://PAMINIFARM.JEERAN.COM/enter.html
or if that one doesnot work go to
http://PAMINIFARM.JEERAN.COM/urls.html

you'll be in an iron lung soon,
> having forgotten how to breathe.
>
> FWIW
>
> xanthian.
David James Polewka - 10 Aug 2006 07:55 GMT
>> It's not about me!   It's about all of us, and making
>> the whole thing sustainable, in perpetuity!
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>world... Address the small problems, because the larger ones
>are WAY beyond the scope of your control.

Only if you're a small-minded quitter!

http://www.paulgraham.com/hamming.html

Richard Hamming: You and Your Research

Talk at Bellcore, 7 March 1986

The title of my talk is, ``You and Your Research.'' It is not about
managing research, it is about how you individually do your research. I
could give a talk on the other subject-- but it's not, it's about you.
I'm not talking about ordinary run-of-the-mill research; I'm talking
about great research. And for the sake of describing great research I'll
occasionally say Nobel-Prize type of work. It doesn't have to gain the
Nobel Prize, but I mean those kinds of things which we perceive are
significant things. Relativity, if you want, Shannon's information
theory, any number of outstanding theories-- that's the kind of thing
I'm talking about.

Now, how did I come to do this study? At Los Alamos I was brought in to
run the computing machines which other people had got going, so those
scientists and physicists could get back to business. I saw I was a
stooge. I saw that although physically I was the same, they were
different. And to put the thing bluntly, I was envious. I wanted to know
why they were so different from me. I saw Feynman up close. I saw Fermi
and Teller. I saw Oppenheimer. I saw Hans Bethe: he was my boss. I saw
quite a few very capable people. I became very interested in the
difference between those who do and those who might have done.

When I came to Bell Labs, I came into a very productive department. Bode
was the department head at the time; Shannon was there, and there were
other people. I continued examining the questions, ``Why?'' and ``What
is the difference?'' I continued subsequently by reading biographies,
autobiographies, asking people questions such as: ``How did you come to
do this?'' I tried to find out what are the differences. And that's what
this talk is about.

Now, why is this talk important? I think it is important because, as far
as I know, each of you has one life to live. Even if you believe in
reincarnation it doesn't do you any good from one life to the next! Why
shouldn't you do significant things in this one life, however you define
significant? I'm not going to define it - you know what I mean. I will
talk mainly about science because that is what I have studied. But so
far as I know, and I've been told by others, much of what I say applies
to many fields. Outstanding work is characterized very much the same way
in most fields, but I will confine myself to science.

In order to get at you individually, I must talk in the first person. I
have to get you to drop modesty and say to yourself, ``Yes, I would like
to do first-class work.'' Our society frowns on people who set out to do
really good work. You're not supposed to; luck is supposed to descend on
you and you do great things by chance. Well, that's a kind of dumb thing
to say. I say, why shouldn't you set out to do something significant.
You don't have to tell other people, but shouldn't you say to yourself,
``Yes, I would like to do something significant.''

In order to get to the second stage, I have to drop modesty and talk in
the first person about what I've seen, what I've done, and what I've
heard. I'm going to talk about people, some of whom you know, and I
trust that when we leave, you won't quote me as saying some of the
things I said.

Let me start not logically, but psychologically. I find that the major
objection is that people think great science is done by luck. It's all a
matter of luck. Well, consider Einstein. Note how many different things
he did that were good. Was it all luck? Wasn't it a little too
repetitive? Consider Shannon. He didn't do just information theory.
Several years before, he did some other good things and some which are
still locked up in the security of cryptography. He did many good
things.

You see again and again, that it is more than one thing from a good
person. Once in a while a person does only one thing in his whole life,
and we'll talk about that later, but a lot of times there is repetition.
I claim that luck will not cover everything. And I will cite Pasteur who
said, ``Luck favors the prepared mind.'' And I think that says it the
way I believe it. There is indeed an element of luck, and no, there
isn't. The prepared mind sooner or later finds something important and
does it. So yes, it is luck. The particular thing you do is luck, but
that you do something is not.

For example, when I came to Bell Labs, I shared an office for a while
with Shannon. At the same time he was doing information theory, I was
doing coding theory. It is suspicious that the two of us did it at the
same place and at the same time - it was in the atmosphere. And you can
say, ``Yes, it was luck.'' On the other hand you can say, ``But why of
all the people in Bell Labs then were those the two who did it?'' Yes,
it is partly luck, and partly it is the prepared mind; but `partly' is
the other thing I'm going to talk about. So, although I'll come back
several more times to luck, I want to dispose of this matter of luck as
being the sole criterion whether you do great work or not. I claim you
have some, but not total, control over it. And I will quote, finally,
Newton on the matter. Newton said, ``If others would think as hard as I
did, then they would get similar results.''

One of the characteristics you see, and many people have it including
great scientists, is that usually when they were young they had
independent thoughts and had the courage to pursue them. For example,
Einstein, somewhere around 12 or 14, asked himself the question, ``What
would a light wave look like if I went with the velocity of light to
look at it?'' Now he knew that electromagnetic theory says you cannot
have a stationary local maximum. But if he moved along with the velocity
of light, he would see a local maximum. He could see a contradiction at
the age of 12, 14, or somewhere around there, that everything was not
right and that the velocity of light had something peculiar. Is it luck
that he finally created special relativity? Early on, he had laid down
some of the pieces by thinking of the fragments. Now that's the
necessary but not sufficient condition. All of these items I will talk
about are both luck and not luck.

How about having lots of `brains?' It sounds good. Most of you in this
room probably have more than enough brains to do first-class work. But
great work is something else than mere brains. Brains are measured in
various ways. In mathematics, theoretical physics, astrophysics,
typically brains correlates to a great extent with the ability to
manipulate symbols. And so the typical IQ test is apt to score them
fairly high. On the other hand, in other fields it is something
different. For example, Bill Pfann, the fellow who did zone melting,
came into my office one day. He had this idea dimly in his mind about
what he wanted and he had some equations. It was pretty clear to me that
this man didn't know much mathematics and he wasn't really articulate.
His problem seemed interesting so I took it home and did a little work.
I finally showed him how to run computers so he could compute his own
answers. I gave him the power to compute. He went ahead, with negligible
recognition from his own department, but ultimately he has collected all
the prizes in the field. Once he got well started, his shyness, his
awkwardness, his inarticulateness, fell away and he became much more
productive in many other ways. Certainly he became much more articulate.

And I can cite another person in the same way. I trust he isn't in the
audience, i.e. a fellow named Clogston. I met him when I was working on
a problem with John Pierce's group and I didn't think he had much. I
asked my friends who had been with him at school, ``Was he like that in
graduate school?'' ``Yes,'' they replied. Well I would have fired the
fellow, but J. R. Pierce was smart and kept him on. Clogston finally did
the Clogston cable. After that there was a steady stream of good ideas.
One success brought him confidence and courage.

One of the characteristics of successful scientists is having courage.
Once you get your courage up and believe that you can do important
problems, then you can. If you think you can't, almost surely you are
not going to. Courage is one of the things that Shannon had supremely.
You have only to think of his major theorem. He wants to create a method
of coding, but he doesn't know what to do so he makes a random code.
Then he is stuck. And then he asks the impossible question, ``What would
the average random code do?'' He then proves that the average code is
arbitrarily good, and that therefore there must be at least one good
code. Who but a man of infinite courage could have dared to think those
thoughts? That is the characteristic of great scientists; they have
courage. They will go forward under incredible circumstances; they think
and continue to think.

Age is another factor which the physicists particularly worry about.
They always are saying that you have got to do it when you are young or
you will never do it. Einstein did things very early, and all the
quantum mechanic fellows were disgustingly young when they did their
best work. Most mathematicians, theoretical physicists, and
astrophysicists do what we consider their best work when they are young.
It is not that they don't do good work in their old age but what we
value most is often what they did early. On the other hand, in music,
politics and literature, often what we consider their best work was done
late. I don't know how whatever field you are in fits this scale, but
age has some effect.

But let me say why age seems to have the effect it does. In the first
place if you do some good work you will find yourself on all kinds of
committees and unable to do any more work. You may find yourself as I
saw Brattain when he got a Nobel Prize. The day the prize was announced
we all assembled in Arnold Auditorium; all three winners got up and made
speeches. The third one, Brattain, practically with tears in his eyes,
said, ``I know about this Nobel-Prize effect and I am not going to let
it affect me; I am going to remain good old Walter Brattain.'' Well I
said to myself, ``That is nice.'' But in a few week