Medical Forum / General / General / June 2006
A BIRD FLU PANDEMIC Won't Accommodate Mass Burials!
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jismquiff@yahoo.com - 10 Jun 2006 01:37 GMT If and when a global avian flu pandemic occurs, medical experts and government planners hint that "proper burials" as we know them might not be achievable--or advisable.
Under a mountain of dead bodies, officials are saying that local and national disease centers will simply be unable to handle tens of thousands of flu victims' dead bodies. It's possible the dead will have to either be buried in mass graves--or, worst case--officials will be compelled to order mass cremation of bodies that over-worked mortuaries and undertakers will have to turn away.
Some feel It might be wise, now, to launch studies to determine the impact such a scenario could present.
In the wake of such chaos and death, would national, state, and local governments move to place an outright BAN on customary interment?
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"A Grisly but Essential Issue"
"Pandemic Plan Skims Over How to Deal With Many Corpses"
By Ceci Connolly Washington Post Staff Writer Friday, June 9, 2006; A09
They brought in steam shovels to dig graves. Caskets were rented -- just long enough to hold a brief memorial service -- then passed on to the next grieving family. The death toll of the 1918 flu pandemic was so overwhelming that the military commandeered entire trains to transport dead soldiers; priests patrolled the streets of Philadelphia in horse-drawn carriages, collecting bodies from doorsteps.
"One of the most demoralizing things was the inability to move bodies out of the home," said John M. Barry, author of "The Great Influenza," the definitive work on the 1918 pandemic. "They just literally stacked up, sometimes for three, four or five days."
Now, with medical experts and government leaders racing to prepare for a potential pandemic, a cadre of mortuary specialists has begun quietly grappling with the grisly but essential question of what to do with the dead if it happens again.
Opinion is varied on when and how virulent the next global flu outbreak would be, but even a modest epidemic -- similar to the pandemic that hit in 1968 -- could kill between 89,000 and 207,000 Americans. If the next virus mimics the far more potent 1918 strain, the U.S. death toll could reach 1.9 million.
"It's almost too big to wrap your arms around," said John Nesler, a specialist in mass fatalities advising the military. If the worst were to occur, Nesler predicted the impact would be akin to "20 nuclear detonations" simultaneously knocking out multiple cities and towns.
In either case, experts foresee an 18-month period of funeral homes being short-staffed, crematories operating round-the-clock, dwindling supplies of caskets and restrictions on group gatherings such as memorial services. Morgues and hospitals would quickly reach capacity. And most of the federal Disaster Mortuary Operational Response Teams (DMORT) would be too busy in their own communities to deploy elsewhere.
"I can't see myself packing my bags to go to another state to help out," said Joyce deJong, a Michigan medical examiner who worked on DMORT teams after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks and Hurricane Katrina. "I'll be here dealing with an increase in the number of bodies."
Some fear that the Bush administration, in all its detailed planning for pandemic flu, has paid scant attention to fatalities.
"It's the one thing nobody wants to address, because it's ugly. People don't want to think that anyone will die," said John Fitch, senior vice president for advocacy at the National Funeral Directors Association. "We can't put our head in the sand and say response stops at prevention and treatment."
In the 227-page response plan recently released by the White House, the term "medical examiner" appears just once -- and "autopsy" not at all. A single paragraph on page 112 recommends that hospitals, medical examiners and government officials "assess current capacity for refrigeration of deceased persons, discuss mass fatality plans and identify temporary morgue sites" to handle surges.
Officials say much more is happening behind the scenes. In March, the administration helped organize a two-day conference at Fort Monroe in Virginia with medical examiners, funeral directors, public health experts and casket makers. Among the more innovative, albeit jarring, ideas being considered are backyard burials, virtual funerals and storing bodies at ice hockey rinks.
Seattle's King County came up with the ice rink idea when officials realized their mass fatality plan would accommodate no more than 50 deaths, perhaps in a plane crash, said interim health director Dorothy Teeter.
"This is so much bigger," she said. "We project 11,000 potential deaths in six to eight weeks."
Several participants said they will have to consider temporary mass graves because they will not have the staff to keep up, especially if some of their workers or family members contract the flu.
"They would bury the person with all the identification material and carefully keep track of that information," said Ann Norwood, a senior analyst at the Office of Public Health Emergency Preparedness at the Department of Health and Human Services. "After things calm down, we can locate the family, exhume the casket and put it wherever the family ultimately would like the body to rest."
"Virtual funerals" broadcast over closed-circuit television or the Internet would be advised, said Nesler, who ran the Fort Monroe conference. "The very worst thing you can do during an epidemic is have large gatherings of people" such as memorial services, he said. Some families may bury relatives on their own property, said deJong, who is also chairwoman of the mass fatality management committee of the National Association of Medical Examiners.
In a pandemic, one problem would likely trigger several more, Norwood said. Fuel shortages, for instance, would mean added complications transporting bodies and keeping refrigerated trucks cool.
If funeral directors and other mortuary workers are not given anti-viral medication or a vaccine when it becomes available, they will likely stay home, said Robert Fells, external chief operating officer for the International Cemetery and Funeral Association. "Ironically, funeral directors were at the bottom of the list," he said. White House officials said a priority list for medicine and vaccine has not been finalized.
"Noticeably absent from the discussion" at Fort Monroe were representatives of the Department of Homeland Security, even though they will have overall coordinating responsibility in a pandemic, said Fitch. "Right now, there is no single agency or individual responsible for mass fatalities."
However, much of the burden will fall to local communities and the states, Bush administration officials said.
Virginia's chief medical examiner, Marcella Fierro, said local hospitals, funeral homes and health departments must take the lead, but the state is trying to help now by developing software systems for clerical tasks such as keeping track of the dead and contacting next of kin. She is also compiling a list of retired employees who could step in.
One of the many lessons to emerge from Hurricane Katrina is that Americans are not accustomed to seeing unattended bodies on the streets of a major city, said Michael Osterholm, head of the Center for Infectious Disease Research & Policy at the University of Minnesota. He said less-developed countries may be better positioned to deal with huge numbers of flu fatalities.
If the next pandemic strikes with the same ferocity as the 1918 flu, even the most thorough planning will not prepare people for the emotional toll of such widespread death.
"We've forgotten that people do die from infectious diseases, and our process of dying has become very sanitized," said Norwood, who is also a psychiatrist. "For the whole Western world, it's going to be a shock."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/09/AR2006060900078.html
SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim - 10 Jun 2006 02:04 GMT why would a loving, caring shithole christian god MURDER everyone with a pandemic ?
oh wait, nevermind. he's done it many times before.
Shall we compare body counts in the bible?
Let's see, the loving, caring christian god character drowned the whole world, killed the firstborn of Egypt as well as its army after a devastating series of plagues, ordered and personally participated in the slaughter of countless individuals during a genocidal rampage of his chosen people, fathered a son specifically to be killed, and personally tortured a poor slob named Job on a bet, and don't forget about demanding that Abraham MURDER his only son.
The dreaded satan character did... Uhh... I don't know. I suppose he might have killed someone at some point, but I'm not sure.
The satan character is a sweetheart compared to the evil monster character called the christian god.
myal - 10 Jun 2006 08:26 GMT > why would a loving, caring shithole christian god MURDER everyone with a > pandemic ? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Let's see, the loving, caring christian god character drowned the whole > world, after giving them fair warning , and providing an escape method
killed the firstborn
> of Egypt as well as its army after a devastating series of plagues, after giving them fair warning
> ordered and personally participated in the slaughter of countless > individuals during a genocidal rampage of his chosen people, after they was given fair warning
fathered a
> son specifically to be killed, and making him alive again....
and personally tortured a poor slob named
> Job on a bet, the origins of double or nothing ?
you obviously missed the import of that one ....
and don't forget about demanding that Abraham MURDER his only
> son. abraham murdered his son ??
please do show where this did occur and how a murdered man can father children after his murder ....
only a few thousand years before ivf was thunk of
> The dreaded satan character did... Uhh... I don't know. I suppose he might > have killed someone at some point, but I'm not sure. riiigghhhtttt......
open your bible , read it hey ? stead of parroting some other idjuts crap they spewed just to have a laugh at the dweebs who parrot their nonsense.
> The satan character is a sweetheart compared to the evil monster character > called the christian god. go back to job and see who the sweetheart was who did the nasty stuff ....
you dipwits who rip a book apart after not actualy knowing whats in it
if you had 1/2 an argument it would be interesting to have read it ...
SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim - 10 Jun 2006 13:39 GMT dear christian MORON,
read YOUR bible.
hey christian jerk, have you MURDERED everyone who works on the sabbath as your bible commands? Exodus 31:15 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.
and to answer your other question, the loving, caring christian god demanded that Abraham MURDER his only son. Genesis 22:2 Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. MURDER him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about." (the christian god sure does like burnt offerings)
I just love it when athesists know the christian bible better than the christian nuts
brainwashed from a young age to believe this christain horseshit, were you?
I wonder if christianity would have so many members today, if instead of parents telling young children "god so loved the world that he gave his only son" that if they instead told children the story of the "loving, caring" christian god turning lot's wife into a pillar of salt for committing the ultimate crime of looking over her shoulder. Maybe children would then be asking, why did the loving, caring christian god MURDER the mommy? Might help to start bringing christianity to its knees.
myal - 10 Jun 2006 15:06 GMT > dear christian MORON, Hiya dipstick , hows your drugs going ?
> read YOUR bible. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to > death. Its a cool law hey ? i like it ...
> and to answer your other question, the loving, caring christian god demanded > that Abraham MURDER his only son. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > mountains I will tell you about." > (the christian god sure does like burnt offerings) I notice you havent got to the next few lines yet STILL buthey , youre doing good for a dickwad ...
> I just love it when athesists know the christian bible better than the > christian nuts I have yet to meet an athiest who *knows* the bible ata ll , I have met many as yurself who have been told of tiny bits of it and *think* they know something ...
> brainwashed from a young age to believe this christain horseshit, were you? Learned the book to prove the missionaries were wrong doing what they did to my people .
Nothing like proving to them by their own books to be the very people they dam ....
> I wonder if christianity would have so many members today, if instead of > parents telling young children "god so loved the world that he gave his only > son" That son , did he have a choice or did daddy force him ??
what was the reason for the saying you quoted anyway , do you have the faintest idea ?
how can letting a guy be murdered save the world anyway oh evangalical athiest ?
what have *you* got thats any better anyway ?
that if they instead told children the story of the "loving, caring"
> christian god turning lot's wife into a pillar of salt for committing the > ultimate crime of looking over her shoulder. shoulda dun what she was told hey ?
You got somethng against consequences have you ?
Maybe children would then be
> asking, why did the loving, caring christian god MURDER the mommy? Might > help to start bringing christianity to its knees. they didnt ask , they ws too busy with daddy ... dube , you are mouthing off about stuff you know SFA about
as I said before you evangalical athiest , if you had 1/2 a clue , it'd be interesting to argue with you ....
as is , youre merely another rabid evangelical athiest .... I find it funny tho that even by claiming to be so , you still acknowledge the existance of god .
twit
You have a repeated argument about murder ... Im guessing its because of scriptures like this : (Psalm 37:10-11) 10 And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more; And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be. 11 But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace. . .
yep I can see what bugs you now
Gods gunna get ya
ROTFLMAO!!!
SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim - 10 Jun 2006 15:22 GMT as usual, you're a christian that posts horseshit that makes no sense, gee, now there's a shock and surprise.
Please explain to me why god demanded that Abraham MURDER his only son.
if this all-powerful shithole god is so wonderful and all-knowing as christians claim, then he obviously already knew the outcome of what Abraham's actions would be and therefore had no need to make him go through the hell of demanding that he MURDER his only son.
Why did god say hey Abraham, MURDER your only son? REAL, non-christian answer: because the christian god had a sick, twisted need to satisfy his ego. He's probably laughing his a.s off, he's talking to the angels saying, watch this, I can get this christian loon to MURDER his only son.
At least an angel swooped in at the very end, and said, hey, this is just a sick, twisted mindfuck game from the COLD-HEARTED BASTARD christian god, what the f.cking hell Abraham, why woudl you listen to some christian a.shole and MURDER your only son, are you dumb or something? (wait, obviously you're dumb, you were going to MURDER your only son just to satisfy the christian god's sick need for an ego boost)
myal - 10 Jun 2006 15:44 GMT > as usual, you're a christian that posts horseshit that makes no sense, gee, > now there's a shock and surprise. > > Please explain to me why god demanded that Abraham MURDER his only son. please explain why you had to delete my previous response that adreessed the point ?
> if this all-powerful shithole god is so wonderful and all-knowing as > christians claim, then he obviously already knew the outcome of what > Abraham's actions would be and therefore had no need to make him go through > the hell of demanding that he MURDER his only son. please explain why you had to delete my previous response that adreessed the point ?
> Why did god say hey Abraham, MURDER your only son? > REAL, non-christian answer: because the christian god had a sick, twisted > need to satisfy his ego. He's probably laughing his a.s off, he's talking to > the angels saying, watch this, I can get this christian loon to MURDER his > only son. please explain why you had to delete my previous response that adreessed the point ?
> At least an angel swooped in at the very end, and said, hey, this is just a > sick, twisted mindfuck game from the COLD-HEARTED BASTARD christian god, > what the f.cking hell Abraham, why woudl you listen to some christian > a.shole and MURDER your only son, are you dumb or something? (wait, > obviously you're dumb, you were going to MURDER your only son just to > satisfy the christian god's sick need for an ego boost) please explain why you had to delete my previous response that adreessed the point ?
I know you hate having to admit Im right but anyway ...
SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim - 10 Jun 2006 16:07 GMT >> Please explain to me why god demanded that Abraham MURDER his only son. > > please explain why you had to delete my previous response that adreessed > the point ? please explain to me why you provided no real answer in the first place. Now, let's try again, back to the question.
why is the christian god such a COLD-HEARTED BASTARD?
why, whenever the all-powerful, all-knowing, loving, caring christian god is presented with a problem that shows even the slightest degree of difficulty to solve his answer is always to MURDER everyone on the planet? seems like an all-powerful, all-knowing supreme being could come up with a better solution that committing MURDER?, you think?
the loving, caring christian god, mass-murderer of humanity
Genesis 22:2 Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. MURDER him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about."
Genesis 7:4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will MURDER from the face of the earth every living creature I have made."
Exodus 11:5 Every firstborn son in Egypt will be MURDERED, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn son of the slave girl, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well. (what the f.cking hell did the slavegirl do, NOTHING, it was Pharoah, why did the all-powerful shithole god MURDER the slavegirls firstborn? The christian god certainly is a COLD-HEARTED, UNFEELING, UNCARING BASTARD)
Genesis 19, more MURDERS committed by the "loving, caring" christian god - mass murderer of humanity 23 By the time Lot reached Zoar, the sun had risen over the land. 24 Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah-from the LORD out of the heavens. 25 Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, including all those living in the cities-and also the vegetation in the land. 26 But Lot's wife looked back, and she was MURDERED by the loving, caring christian god,, she became a pillar of salt
myal - 10 Jun 2006 16:55 GMT >>>Please explain to me why god demanded that Abraham MURDER his only son. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > please explain to me why you provided no real answer in the first place. > Now, let's try again, back to the question. I did tho , you deleted it .
> why is the christian god such a COLD-HEARTED BASTARD? Prove he is first ....
what is he doing that makes him heartless ? Not playing according to your rules ?
> why, whenever the all-powerful, all-knowing, loving, caring christian god is > presented with a problem that shows even the slightest degree of difficulty > to solve > his answer is always to MURDER everyone on the planet? Give examples where he has EVER murdered *everyone on the planet* please , Id be interested to know what thehell you evolved from to be able to say that .
> seems like an all-powerful, all-knowing supreme being could come up with a > better > solution that committing MURDER?, you think? is it murder tho ? If life is conditional , and you choose if you want to follow the condition that lets you keep it or not ... how is it murder ?
> the loving, caring christian god, mass-murderer of humanity > > Genesis 22:2 > Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go > to the region of Moriah. MURDER him there as a burnt offering on one of > the mountains I will tell you about." Riiigghht mass murder .... the test of abraham , how many died there again dube ????
I know you dare not answer ....
> Genesis 7:4 > Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty > nights, and I will MURDER from the face of the earth every living creature I > have made." after 40 years of being told it was gunna happen , and how to survive , a free ride even , thru it all and when God says OK , its next week , if they aint coming they aint coming ....
its murder ? like people should be allowed to do as they want and god acomadate them ?
I see your problem .... you cannot deal with authority
> Exodus 11:5 > Every firstborn son in Egypt will be MURDERED, from the firstborn son of [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > all-powerful shithole god MURDER the slavegirls firstborn? The christian god > certainly is a COLD-HEARTED, UNFEELING, UNCARING BASTARD) The slave girl was pharohs possesion , and she could have prevented the death , they were told how , and given ample warning .
Each and eevry person knew and fair number of egyptians did take the preventative measure and had no loss to their families ....
are they the unmurdered ?
just like you are told dont get caught killing folk or you fry in the electric chair , byyour reasoning , anyone caught murdering and executed for it , was themselves murdered ....
riiiiggghhhtttt ...
> Genesis 19, more MURDERS committed by the "loving, caring" christian god - > mass murderer of humanity [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > caring christian god,, > she became a pillar of salt Why did god do that oh wise dube ? wanna say out loud like God did , *why* he did as he did ?, what happened that he destroyed the cities ?
Abraham made a deal with god over the place , remember ?
wanna say out loud about that too ?
I reckon you are chicken to tho , since its self explanitory .... and your questions answer themselves if you bother to read around your cherrypickings .
Pro gay by any chance ? Ive found *most* evangalical athiests wo dragout sodom and gomorrah are closet poofs .... and have a grdge that god is anti gay
SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim - 10 Jun 2006 17:05 GMT >>>>Please explain to me why god demanded that Abraham MURDER his only son. >>> [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > > I see your problem .... you cannot deal with authority I know you've heard this before, but you're wrong as usual, I can't deal with a being that gets his panties in a wad and MURDERS everyone on the planet just because he doesn't like the way things are going
>> Exodus 11:5 >> Every firstborn son in Egypt will be MURDERED, from the firstborn son of [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > Why did god do that oh wise dube ? wanna say out loud like God did , *why* > he did as he did ?, what happened that he destroyed the cities ? yea, because the christian god is a COLD-HEARTED BASTARD and loves to kill people.
> Abraham made a deal with god over the place , remember ? > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > sodom and gomorrah are closet poofs .... and have a grdge that god is anti > gay myal - 10 Jun 2006 17:19 GMT >>>>>Please explain to me why god demanded that Abraham MURDER his only son. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> >>Prove he is first .... you didnt prove it ...
>>what is he doing that makes him heartless ? Not playing according to your >>rules ? [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > with a being that gets his panties in a wad and MURDERS everyone on the > planet just because he doesn't like the way things are going EVERYONE who paid attentionin the previous 40 YEARS and seen the bloody great boat getting built knew , was warned and made a conscious decision NOT TO SURVIVE ...
how is that murder ?
>>>Exodus 11:5 >>>Every firstborn son in Egypt will be MURDERED, from the firstborn son of [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > yea, because the christian god is a COLD-HEARTED BASTARD and loves to kill > people. your very quietly quietly pro gay pro sexual violence stance is noted ....
why can you not bring yourself to admit that if god woula found 10 people doing what he wanted ... thats like lot , rslot , their daughters .. their promised husbands , and their parents
the cities wouldnt have been destroyed
not to hard is it ?
but they chose to be naughty , they was warned , abraham had cruised thru and told them , lot had told them ...
they was warned .
>>Abraham made a deal with god over the place , remember ? >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >>sodom and gomorrah are closet poofs .... and have a grdge that god is anti >>gay SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim - 10 Jun 2006 19:22 GMT > EVERYONE who paid attentionin the previous 40 YEARS and seen the bloody > great boat getting built knew , was warned and made a conscious decision > NOT TO SURVIVE ... > > how is that murder ? your loving, caring god made a conscious decision to MURDER them. your god could have just said nevermind, but instead he chose MURDER. this is the same logic as someone coming to your front door and saying leave your house now, or you won't be alive tomorrow". you would cal the police or load your gun because smeone just threatened to end your life by MURDERING you, just as the COLD-HEARTED BASTARD christian god did.
sorry to confuse you christian nuts with the facts, I know you hate that
myal - 10 Jun 2006 23:16 GMT >>EVERYONE who paid attentionin the previous 40 YEARS and seen the bloody >>great boat getting built knew , was warned and made a conscious decision [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > your loving, caring god made a conscious decision to MURDER them. your god > could have just said nevermind, No , he couldnt .... you doubtless are aware why tho ...
> but instead he chose MURDER. > this is the same logic as someone coming to your front door and saying leave > your house now, or you won't be alive tomorrow". Happened time and agan during the russian liberation of europe during WWII ...
its not murder but exersizing authority
youre upset is merely frustration over your inability to change things to force God to accept your way instead of confronting the fact that according to the bible , *you* have to change to accomadate his way , or you simply cease to exist eventualy ...
> you would cal the police or load your gun because smeone just threatened to > end your life by MURDERING you, just as the COLD-HEARTED BASTARD christian > god did. > > sorry to confuse you christian nuts with the facts, I know you hate that SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim - 11 Jun 2006 11:10 GMT we already know the "loving, caring" christian god loves to MURDER everyone, thanks for confirming.
myal - 11 Jun 2006 11:37 GMT > we already know the "loving, caring" christian god loves to MURDER everyone, > thanks for confirming. you length well thoughout argument is ... somewhat lacking
as is your ability to comprehend more than a 1 page leaflet distributed by some anti god pro gay evangalical athiestic movement ....
sadly for you , gods gunna get ya ....
SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim - 11 Jun 2006 19:15 GMT >> we already know the "loving, caring" christian god loves to MURDER >> everyone, thanks for confirming. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > sadly for you , gods gunna get ya .... oh, the loving, caring christian god is going to MURDER me too? why is it that your psychopathic christian god loves to MURDER peope so much?
The christian god is scared of me. He's too much of a chicken-sh.t to show his face
SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim - 10 Jun 2006 17:20 GMT >>>>Please explain to me why god demanded that Abraham MURDER his only son. >>> [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > > I see your problem .... you cannot deal with authority I know you've heard this before, but you're wrong as usual, I can't deal with a being that gets his panties in a wad and MURDERS everyone on the planet just because he doesn't like the way things are going
>> Exodus 11:5 >> Every firstborn son in Egypt will be MURDERED, from the firstborn son of [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > Why did god do that oh wise dube ? wanna say out loud like God did , *why* > he did as he did ?, what happened that he destroyed the cities ? yea, because the christian god is a COLD-HEARTED BASTARD and loves to kill people.
> Abraham made a deal with god over the place , remember ? > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > sodom and gomorrah are closet poofs .... and have a grdge that god is anti > gay Android Cat - 10 Jun 2006 17:44 GMT >>>>> Please explain to me why god demanded that Abraham MURDER his >>>>> only son. You seem to be a sucker for a cross-posting troll.
T O T T I - 19 Jun 2006 12:19 GMT > >>>Please explain to me why god demanded that Abraham MURDER his only son. > >> [quoted text clipped - 103 lines] > sodom and gomorrah are closet poofs .... and have a grdge that god is > anti gay SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim - 10 Jun 2006 13:50 GMT >> why would a loving, caring shithole christian god MURDER everyone with a >> pandemic ? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > after giving them fair warning , and providing an escape method doesn't make the christian god any less of a mass murderer
> killed the firstborn >> of Egypt as well as its army after a devastating series of plagues, > > after giving them fair warning STILL DOESN'T change the fact that the christian god is a mass murdering psycho hey, get out, before the christian god MURDERS everyone. A murderer is a MURDERER, whether he gives everyone "fair warning" or not. Hey, fair warning, the "loving, caring" christian god is going to MURDER everyone. This is just like the simpson episode, homer is going around shouting about the rapture coming (which shock and surprise doesn't show up), and he is saying, GOD LOVES YOU, HE IS GOING TO KILL YOU.
>> ordered and personally participated in the slaughter of countless >> individuals during a genocidal rampage of his chosen people, > > after they was given fair warning once a murderer, ALWAYS A MURDERER, wy does the christian god ALWAYS resort to killing things? You would think that an all-knowing, all-powerful supreme being could come up with better ways to solve problems than to COMMITT MURDER now wouldn't you?
> fathered a >> son specifically to be killed, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > abraham murdered his son ?? I said the christian god DEMANDED that Abraham MURDER his only son. pay ATTENTION, although I do realize that if you christians had PAID ATTENTION to the bible horseshit, then you wouldn't be christian, you would be atheists.
> please do show where this did occur and how a murdered man can father > children after his murder .... [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > riiigghhhtttt...... I have found passage after passage where the "loving, caring" christian god committs MURDER time and time again. satan seems to be a sweetheart compared to the evil christian god BASTARD
> open your bible , read it hey ? stead of parroting some other idjuts crap > they spewed just to have a laugh at the dweebs who parrot their nonsense. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > if you had 1/2 an argument it would be interesting to have read it ... if you actually used your brain, you wouldn't be a christian. You would think that an all-knowing, all-powerful supreme being could come up with better ways to solve problems than to COMMITT MURDER now wouldn't you?
myal - 10 Jun 2006 14:42 GMT >>>why would a loving, caring shithole christian god MURDER everyone with a >>>pandemic ? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > doesn't make the christian god any less of a mass murderer As Judged by you ....
>> killed the firstborn >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > everyone. > This is just like the simpson episode, I see , you are a patriot as well as the Judge of God ....
homer is going around shouting about
> the rapture coming (which shock and > surprise doesn't show up), and he is saying, GOD LOVES YOU, HE IS GOING TO [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > up with better ways to solve problems than to COMMITT MURDER now wouldn't > you? Yup , and God doesnt murder .
Life came from God , he gave it ..
if you dont play nice with it , he take it away again ...
If I give my kid a toy , I give it on condition he play nice and by my rules or I take it away again ....
You sound like my kid when he realised he just stuffed up and was about to lose the toy ....
>>fathered a >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > ATTENTION to the bible horseshit, then you > wouldn't be christian, you would be atheists. Since you *deman* I pay attention , why is it you picked a part of the story out of context ?
Did God actualy allow Abraham to murder his son ? Hmmm ?
or was it as it was realy , a test of loyalty ?
>>please do show where this did occur and how a murdered man can father >>children after his murder .... [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I have found passage after passage where the "loving, caring" christian god > committs MURDER time and time again. I see , you have just found a passage
youre doing the reading now still while youve prejudged it anyway ?
sign of an open mind I take it ?
> satan seems to be a sweetheart compared to the evil christian god BASTARD > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > if you actually used your brain, you wouldn't be a christian. Who says I am ?
> You would think that an all-knowing, all-powerful supreme being could come > up with better ways to solve problems than to COMMITT MURDER now wouldn't > you? If you had rad the book , , God didnt commit murder at all ...
he is said to have given mankind life , and as long as they play nice , he wont take it away ....
they didnt play nice ...
youre gunna die .. its just a matter of when .
You call that murder ?
SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim - 10 Jun 2006 14:53 GMT >>>>why would a loving, caring shithole christian god MURDER everyone with a >>>>pandemic ? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > As Judged by you .... as judged by anyone that actually uses their brain, granted that leaves christians out.
>>> killed the firstborn >>> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > I see , you are a patriot as well as the Judge of God .... MASS MURDERING, COLD-HEARTED BASTARD GODS SHOULD BE JUDGED AND SENTENCED TO DEATH. I sentence the christian god to death for all of the murders he has committed
> homer is going around shouting about >> the rapture coming (which shock and [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Yup , and God doesnt murder . I'm sure Charles manson, Ted Bundy, and others didn't call what they did MURDER either. however, the facts remain, there sure a lot of dead people when the christian god is around.
> Life came from God , he gave it .. > > if you dont play nice with it , he take it away again ... THAT'S CALLED MURDER. sorry to confuse you with facts
> If I give my kid a toy , I give it on condition he play nice and by my > rules or I take it away again .... [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > Since you *deman* I pay attention , why is it you picked a part of the > story out of context ? OH YEA, THE GOOD OLD, YOU'RE TAKING IT OUT OF CONTEXT AGAIN, that's what christians say, when you quote DIRECT from their bible, and instead of them admitting that their god is a COLD-HEARTED BASTARD or that their bible is a crock of sh.t, they say, you're taking the bible out of context
> Did God actualy allow Abraham to murder his son ? Hmmm ? > [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Who says I am ? You sure do seem fit to defend the COLD-HEARTED BASTARD christian god .
>> You would think that an all-knowing, all-powerful supreme being could >> come up with better ways to solve problems than to COMMITT MURDER now >> wouldn't you? > > If you had rad the book , , God didnt commit murder at all ... once again, I'mn sure that Ted Bundy, Charles manson and others didn't call what they did murder either. either way, sure are a lot of dead people when the "loving, caring" christian god is around
> he is said to have given mankind life , and as long as they play nice , he > wont take it away .... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > You call that murder ? depands if the loving, caring christian god alows me to live to be 900 years old as others in the bible. LMAO
if he inflicts or murders me with one of the diseases he created such as cancer, muscular dystrophy, cerebal palsy, etc., then yes, that most definitely qualifies as at the very least assault, and very possibly MURDER charges being brought against the all-powerful, loving, caring" christian god
myal - 10 Jun 2006 15:35 GMT >>>>>why would a loving, caring shithole christian god MURDER everyone with a >>>>>pandemic ? [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > as judged by anyone that actually uses their brain, granted that leaves > christians out. I see , as judged by you ....
>>>>killed the firstborn >>>> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > DEATH. I sentence the christian god to death for all of the murders he has > committed Are you talking about God , or Bush ?
>> homer is going around shouting about >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > however, the facts remain, there sure a lot of dead people when the > christian god is around. Define murder , you seem to have a broad definition here ....
>>Life came from God , he gave it .. >> >>if you dont play nice with it , he take it away again ... > > THAT'S CALLED MURDER. sorry to confuse you with facts no , its taking back something given conditionaly ...
you are the bible whizz , genisis dube , genisis god told adam , obey God , live , disobey , die ...
you seem confused by this tho
>>If I give my kid a toy , I give it on condition he play nice and by my >>rules or I take it away again .... [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > admitting that their god is a COLD-HEARTED BASTARD or that their bible is a > crock of sh.t, they say, you're taking the bible out of context You arse-ume way to much dube , way way too much , i was reffering only to the next few lines of the story ....
tell me dbe , did God allow Abraham to murder the boy ? , remember we talking a 100+ yr old man here , goin to murder a kid of maybe 20 something ....
>>Did God actualy allow Abraham to murder his son ? Hmmm ? >> >>or was it as it was realy , a test of loyalty ? you totaly FAILED to answer the question , how unsuprising ....
>>>>please do show where this did occur and how a murdered man can father >>>>children after his murder .... [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > You sure do seem fit to defend the COLD-HEARTED BASTARD christian god . I see , your arse isout of control again , youre arse-uming you have *the* definition of christian
>>>You would think that an all-knowing, all-powerful supreme being could >>>come up with better ways to solve problems than to COMMITT MURDER now [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > either way, sure are a lot of dead people when the "loving, caring" > christian god is around see above , dube ...
>>he is said to have given mankind life , and as long as they play nice , he >>wont take it away .... [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > depands if the loving, caring christian god alows me to live to be 900 years > old as others in the bible. LMAO you aim way to low dube , you have failed totaly to read even the begiing of the book ,inyour desperate hunt for things to snipe about ...
the condition of life was obedience , disobedience meant removal of lfe , youre aiming at death ???
Im not suprised ,
obedience meant what old dube ?
> if he inflicts or murders me with one of the diseases he created such as > cancer, muscular dystrophy, cerebal palsy, etc., these are bought on largely due to environmental factors people have subjected themselves to ...
the effects of the chemicals we have beenplaying with for the last two 1/2 generations is begining to tell with increases in the things you have just laid blame for at gods feet ...
I am not suprised tho ....
then yes, that most
> definitely qualifies as at the very least assault, and very possibly MURDER > charges being brought against the all-powerful, loving, caring" christian > god you are merely another person ,( probably american ) who is desperately trying to avoid accepting responsibility for the things they have done to themselves ...
dube , if you get pox from rooting a whore , is it gods fault you die early fro not having your pox treated ?
or is it the whores for giving it to you ?
SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim - 10 Jun 2006 15:43 GMT > tell me dbe , did God allow Abraham to murder the boy ? , remember we > talking a 100+ yr old man here , goin to murder a kid of maybe 20 > something .... 100 YEARS OLD? BIG DEAL, people were living to be 900 years old back then, remember??, read your bible!! , 100 years old, hell, he was still a strapping young lad at 100, could have easily taken down someone who was a mere 20.
myal - 10 Jun 2006 16:40 GMT >>tell me dbe , did God allow Abraham to murder the boy ? , remember we >>talking a 100+ yr old man here , goin to murder a kid of maybe 20 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > strapping young lad at 100, could have easily taken down someone who was a > mere 20. dube, dube , dube....
you the fella trying to pick holes in the book , and you show glaring examples of your ignorance like this ....
you REALY need to sit down and do some reseach instead of just looking in a book like 10 reasons why the bible is lousy , or whatever youre cherry picking your attemped ideas from ....
how many folk are recorded as living 900 yrs exactly flla ?
roughly two ( 2 ) only , adam and methusala , both outstanding examples of longevity and both lived preflood ....
post flood , things changed radicaly wanna say out loud how long folk lived post flood , and *why* it was written men have 3 score and ten (70) years , glutted with agitation and agonies if 900 was common oh knowlegable dube ?
wanna try again now ?
SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim - 10 Jun 2006 19:26 GMT >>>tell me dbe , did God allow Abraham to murder the boy ? , remember we >>>talking a 100+ yr old man here , goin to murder a kid of maybe 20 [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> > dube, dube , dube.... moron, moron, moron,
> you the fella trying to pick holes in the book , and you show glaring > examples of your ignorance like this .... [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > wanna try again now ? what, to confuse you with the FACTS yet again? hey nutcase, the bible says several (not 2 as you stated)....people lived to be 900 years old. oops, confusing a christian nut with FACTS again, huh. sorry about that.
1.. INSTANCES OF » Adam, nine-hundred and thirty years (Genesis 5:5) 2.. INSTANCES OF » Seth, nine-hundred and twelve years (Genesis 5:8) 3.. INSTANCES OF » Enos, nine-hundred and five years (Genesis 5:11) 4.. INSTANCES OF » Cainan, nine-hundred and ten years (Genesis 5:14) 5.. INSTANCES OF » Mahalaleel, eight-hundred and ninety-five years (Genesis 5:17) 6.. INSTANCES OF » Jared, nine-hundred and sixty-two years (Genesis 5:20) 7.. INSTANCES OF » Enoch, three-hundred and sixty-five years (Genesis 5:23) 8.. INSTANCES OF » Methuselah, nine-hundred and sixty-nine years (Genesis 5:27) 9.. INSTANCES OF » Lamech, seven-hundred and seventy-seven years (Genesis 5:31) 10.. INSTANCES OF » Noah, nine-hundred and fifty years (Genesis 9:29) 11.. INSTANCES OF » Shem, six-hundred years (Genesis 11:10,11) 12.. INSTANCES OF » Arphaxad, four-hundred and thirty-eight years (Genesis 11:12,13) 13.. INSTANCES OF » Salah, four-hundred and thirty-three years (Genesis 11:14,15) 14.. INSTANCES OF » Eber, four-hundred and sixty-four years (Genesis 11:16,17) 15.. INSTANCES OF » Peleg, two-hundred and thirty-nine years (Genesis 11:18,19) 16.. INSTANCES OF » Reu, two-hundred and thirty-nine years (Genesis 11:20,21) 17.. INSTANCES OF » Serug, two-hundred and thirty years (Genesis 11:22,23) 18.. INSTANCES OF » Nahor, one-hundred and forty-eight years (Genesis 11:24,25) 19.. INSTANCES OF » Terah, two-hundred and five years (Genesis 11:32) 20.. INSTANCES OF » Job, "lived one-hundred and forty years" after his ordeal, and then "he died at a very great age," (Job 42:16,17) 21.. INSTANCES OF » Sarah, one-hundred and twenty-seven years (Genesis 23:1) 22.. INSTANCES OF » Abraham, one-hundred and seventy-five years (Genesis 25:7) 23.. INSTANCES OF » Isaac, one-hundred and eighty years (Genesis 35:28) 24.. INSTANCES OF » Jacob, one-hundred and forty-seven years (Genesis 47:28) 25.. INSTANCES OF » Joseph, one-hundred and ten years (Genesis 50:26)
myal - 10 Jun 2006 23:25 GMT >>>>tell me dbe , did God allow Abraham to murder the boy ? , remember we >>>>talking a 100+ yr old man here , goin to murder a kid of maybe 20 [quoted text clipped - 72 lines] > 47:28) > 25.. INSTANCES OF » Joseph, one-hundred and ten years (Genesis 50:26) yeah well , Im working off memory here , you are not worth the effort to actualy open the book to argue with ...I guessed wrong the number , but you have actualy demonstrated quite well the point I was making about post flood lifespans
and how they were not the 900 years you were claiming .
Job Sarah Abraham Isaac Jacob and Joseph were all "blessed" individuals part of that was dying old and satisfyed with days ...
IOW they was execptions to the rule .
notice how long their contempories lived ?
see the contrast ?
I KNOW you will not ... your mind is too narrow and analy atenuated .
barbz - 10 Jun 2006 23:31 GMT >>>>> tell me dbe , did God allow Abraham to murder the boy ? , remember >>>>> we talking a 100+ yr old man here , goin to murder a kid of maybe [quoted text clipped - 93 lines] > > I KNOW you will not ... your mind is too narrow and analy atenuated . Would you kindly remove alt.religion.scientology from your discussion of Xian fables? The topic's bad enough, but your pathetic spelling, semi-literate presentation and utter lack of thought make me want to spit.
Thank you.
 Signature Barb Chaplain, ARSCC xenubarb@netscape.net
"Every week, every month, every year, every decade and now every century, Scientology does weird and stupid things to damage its own reputation." -Steve Zadarnowski
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SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim - 11 Jun 2006 11:12 GMT >> what, to confuse you with the FACTS yet again? >> hey nutcase, the bible says several (not 2 as you stated)....people lived [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > yeah well , Im working off memory here , oh, so that explains why your posts are filled with inaccuracies.
> and how they were not the 900 years you were claiming . > > Job Sarah Abraham Isaac Jacob and Joseph were all "blessed" individuals > part of that was dying old and satisfyed with days ... > > IOW they was execptions to the rule . LOL
> notice how long their contempories lived ? > > see the contrast ? > > I KNOW you will not ... your mind is too narrow and analy atenuated . myal - 11 Jun 2006 11:36 GMT >>>what, to confuse you with the FACTS yet again? >>>hey nutcase, the bible says several (not 2 as you stated)....people lived [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > oh, so that explains why your posts are filled with inaccuracies. oh sure , and the *only* one you found you made a big deal out of ....
if there had have been more youd have had such fun ... as it is , you been made to try and produce evidence of and a definition for murder ...
and youre unable to
>>and how they were not the 900 years you were claiming . >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> >>I KNOW you will not ... your mind is too narrow and analy atenuated . I was right too wasnt I ?
SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim - 11 Jun 2006 19:16 GMT >>>>what, to confuse you with the FACTS yet again? >>>>hey nutcase, the bible says several (not 2 as you stated)....people [quoted text clipped - 72 lines] >> > I was right too wasnt I ? right about what, that the christian god is a COLD-HEARTED BASTARD?, yes, the christian god is a COLD-HEARTED BASTARD
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