Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
General
GeneralCardiologyVisionDentistryPharmacyLaboratoryNutritionAlternative
Diseases and Disorders
AIDSAlzheimer'sArthritisAsthmaCancerBreast CancerDiabetesEpilepsyGlaucomaHepatitisHerpesLupusProstate BPHProstate CancerProstatitisSinusitisTinnitus

Medical Forum / General / General / May 2006

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

List of nephrotoxic substances... please?

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Spike - 15 May 2006 11:28 GMT
I was recently diagnosed with autoimmune Ig-A glomerulonephritis and I
would need to avoid all nephrotoxic substances.

Unfortunately I was also recently diagnosed with ADD and some
depression, and I need to try a whole lot of substances because I get
rapid tolerance to almost everything that works.

I tried to look up on the Internet any list of nephrotoxic substances
but I was disappointed, e.g. none of them quotes Creatine which I know
is nephrotoxic (and was one of the things that worked for ADHD strangely
enough) so I don't know how much I can trust those lists. This is the
best list I found up to now:
http://www.rcsed.ac.uk/journal/vol45_1/4510008.htm  (middle of the page)

If you know more substances to add to the list or have a better list I
would be very grateful.

In particular I'm VERY interested to know if the following substances
are nephrotoxic, because these are the next ones I'm likely to try:

- Bupropion: I see an indication to reduce the dose in patients with
renal insufficiency, I suppose that does not mean it's neprhotoxic, does it?

- Any antidepressant that is neprhotoxic? I seem to remember someone
mentioned Paxil, is that possible? I find no evidence on the Internet.

- Is cannabis nephrotoxic? (Yes there are some reports that it can work
for ADHD and maybe CAPD which I also have, no it's not for recreational
use, really! :-) )

Thanks so much for your help
REP - 15 May 2006 14:04 GMT
> In particular I'm VERY interested to know if the following substances
> are nephrotoxic, because these are the next ones I'm likely to try:

Hey, it's me - the one with FSGS again!

> - Bupropion: I see an indication to reduce the dose in patients with
> renal insufficiency, I suppose that does not mean it's neprhotoxic, does it?

Nope. A lot of drugs say to reduce dosage with renal insufficiency
(proteinuria is not renal insuffiency; renal insufficiency is when your
GFR goes below a certain number/rate). Xyban is not nephrotoxic.

> - Any antidepressant that is neprhotoxic? I seem to remember someone
> mentioned Paxil, is that possible? I find no evidence on the Internet.

I can't think of any off hand - most of the common ones are not, but it
is possible that some of the heavy-duty anti-psychotics might be. I know
for a fact that Elavil and Buspar aren't - I take them daily (Elavil for
migraines; Buspar for anxiety).

> - Is cannabis nephrotoxic? (Yes there are some reports that it can work
> for ADHD and maybe CAPD which I also have, no it's not for recreational
> use, really! :-) )

Nope. Like smoking tobacco, it ain't good for you and does all the
things to the respiratory and circulatory system that tobacco does, but
most users of marijuana perform the smoking act fewer times than a
tobacco smoker does. I'm a tobacco smoker, so this isn't an anti-smoking
message - just a a "don't overdo it" message! It is not directly
nephrotoxic.

As I said in an earlier post to you, avoid NSAIDs - they're nephrotoxic.
They include ibuprofen, naproxyn, Toradol, and salicytes (like aspirin).
This is anecdotal, but something to consider: I was recently put on a
drug that contains a small amount of salicytes for my chronic kidney
infection by my urologist - about a regular aspirin's worth. I was
taking half the usual dosage, and within 10 days my proteinuria (which,
remember, is much worse than yours is ... not bragging, just not wanting
to freak you out!) doubled and my legs were so swollen I could barely
walk. So even though aspirin is usually not on the "worst of the worst"
NSAID list, individual reactions can vary.

That said, if you ever have an injury for which NSAIDs are the only real
option, Clinoril is fairly safe for short term (1 month) use in patients
as nephrotic as I am - of course, under the advice and care of a doctor.

Email is valid - feel free to email or post here if I can be of further
assistance.

Signature

"Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner."
- Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather

Spike - 15 May 2006 17:15 GMT
Man thanks so much REP!

Where did you find information on nephrotoxicity yourself? Is there a
book or something?

Also --->

> This is anecdotal, but something to consider: I was recently put on a
> drug that contains a small amount of salicytes for my chronic kidney
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> to freak you out!) doubled  and my legs were so swollen I could barely
> walk.

Oh my...
Did your proteinuria come back to the earlier level afterwards?

So even though aspirin is usually not on the "worst of the worst"
> Clinoril is fairly safe for short term (1 month) use in patients
> as nephrotic as I am - of course, under the advice and care of a doctor.

Interesting.
I never understood why they don't give us small doses of systemic
cortisone as anti inflamatory instead of trying borderline NSAIDs...
There must be something I don't know about cortisone. I will find the
time to investigate eventually.

> Email is valid - feel free to email or post here if I can be of further
> assistance.

Tnx I will keep it in mind

Best of luck with your FSGS
REP - 16 May 2006 09:10 GMT
> Man thanks so much REP!
>
> Where did you find information on nephrotoxicity yourself? Is there a
> book or something?

No; I just like looking stuff up. For specific drugs I'm not sure about,
I check rxlist.com.

> Also --->
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Oh my...
> Did your proteinuria come back to the earlier level afterwards?

It's still higher than usual, but I have ankles again!

> So even though aspirin is usually not on the "worst of the worst"
> > Clinoril is fairly safe for short term (1 month) use in patients
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> There must be something I don't know about cortisone. I will find the
> time to investigate eventually.

Well, mainly it's because the risks with steroids like prednisone and
other glucocorticoid are sometimes greater than the benefits (another
anecdote: I became diabetic while taking prednisone for asthma, and let
me tell you, it sucks). For say, a mild to moderate case of bursitis,
it's less risky to try Clinoril than prednisone. Steroids are sometimes
used in treating early stages of some kidney diseases, but in general,
they have so many side-effects that most doctors try to limit their use
except when clearly indicated.

Signature

"Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner."
- Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather

Spike - 18 May 2006 18:12 GMT
> No; I just like looking stuff up. For specific drugs I'm not sure about,
> I check rxlist.com.

Well... I looked rxlist.com to check if it reported Aspirin as
nephrotoxic and it doesn't! or I have not understood where to look exactly?

>>> Clinoril

Looking on the Internet I didn't find any statement of Clinoril being
less nephrotoxic than the other NSAIDs, do you have a link?

FGCS:
I read that the causes are not known. To my knowledge, such a statement
means that there is a certain likelihood that it might be autoimmune
(like in my case). I tell you this: I am currently trying LDN, low dose
naltrexone, look it up on the internet. I don't think it's a scam
because AFAIR I found lots of abstracts in Pubmed agreeing that it
really works great for Multiple Sclerosis, and hence it might work for
other autoimmune diseases as well. You might want to try it yourself.

Thanks, good luck
REP - 18 May 2006 22:03 GMT
> > No; I just like looking stuff up. For specific drugs I'm not sure about,
> > I check rxlist.com.
>
> Well... I looked rxlist.com to check if it reported Aspirin as
> nephrotoxic and it doesn't! or I have not understood where to look exactly?

Well, Rxlist isn't the end-all and be-all; it's just one tool. Apsirin
(and all salicylates) are NSAIDs, and NSAIDs are nephrotoxic to some
degree or another. Here's the "Precautions" section from the Physician's
Desk Reference for aspirin:

"Precautions:
General: Renal Failure: Avoid aspirin in patients with severe renal
failure (glomerular filtration rate less than 10 mL/minute).

Hepatic Insufficiency: Avoid aspirin in patients with severe hepatic
insufficiency.

Sodium Restricted Diets: Patients with sodium-retaining states, such as
congestive heart failure or renal failure, should avoid
sodium-containing buffered aspirin preparations because of their high
sodium content.

Laboratory Tests: Aspirin has been associated with elevated hepatic
enzymes, blood urea nitrogen and serum creatinine, hyperkalemia,
proteinuria, and prolonged bleeding time."

See the last section, on laboratory tests? Proteinuria (and increased
proteinuria) is one of the biggest dangers with NSAID use in kidney
patients.

>  >>> Clinoril
>
> Looking on the Internet I didn't find any statement of Clinoril being
> less nephrotoxic than the other NSAIDs, do you have a link?

I got the information from my internist and nephrologist, but here's
what the Physician's Desk Reference has to say on the subject:

"Renal Effects
As with other non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, long-term
administration of sulindac to animals has resulted in renal papillary
necrosis and other abnormal renal pathology. In humans, there have been
reports of acute interstitial nephritis with hematuria, proteinuria, and
occasionally nephrotic syndrome.

A second form of renal toxicity has been seen in patients with prerenal
and renal conditions leading to a reduction in renal blood flow or blood
volume, where the renal prostaglandins have a supportive role in the
maintenance of renal perfusion. In these patients, administration of an
NSAID may cause a dose dependent reduction in prostaglandin formation
and may precipitate overt renal decompensation. CLINORIL may affect
renal function less than other NSAIDs in patients with chronic
glomerular renal disease (see CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY ). Until these
observations are better understood and clarified, however, and because
renal adverse experiences have been reported with CLINORIL (see ADVERSE
REACTIONS ), caution should be exercised when administering the drug to
patients with conditions associated with increased risk of the effects
of non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs on renal function, such as
those with renal or hepatic dysfunction, diabetes mellitus, advanced
age, extracellular volume depletion from any cause, congestive heart
failure, septicemia, pyelonephritis, or concomitant use of any
nephrotoxic drug. Discontinuation of NSAID therapy is typically followed
by recovery to the pretreatment state."

http://www.drugs.com/pdr/clinoril_tablets.html

> FGCS:
> I read that the causes are not known.

Yes, I have idiopathic FSGS. It usually effects older Black men with
high blood pressure, but I am a young(ish) white chick with very low
blood pressure. Go figger! My biopsy was unusual; in addition to the
FSGS, I was also found to have very early diabetic nephropathy and maybe
Minimal Change Disease as well. I now have extensive scarring, too, from
a chronic kidney infection. I also pass a lot of stones. In other words,
I have really busy kidneys.

To my knowledge, such a statement
> means that there is a certain likelihood that it might be autoimmune
> (like in my case). I tell you this: I am currently trying LDN, low dose
> naltrexone, look it up on the internet. I don't think it's a scam
> because AFAIR I found lots of abstracts in Pubmed agreeing that it
> really works great for Multiple Sclerosis, and hence it might work for
> other autoimmune diseases as well. You might want to try it yourself.

I'm not sure how an opioid receptor antagonist would work for FSGS. I
can see how it might work for MS ... but I haven't read the studies yet,
just looked up what it is. Therapy with it would suck though - I take
narcotic analgesics!

Signature

"Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner."
- Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather

Robert CLS, MT(ASCP) - 18 May 2006 22:27 GMT
<Well, Rxlist isn't the end-all and be-all; it's just one tool. Apsirin

<(and all salicylates) are NSAIDs, and NSAIDs are nephrotoxic to some
<degree or another. Here's the "Precautions" section from the
Physician's
<Desk Reference for aspirin:

Chronic NSAID use is also associated with renal papillary necrosis.

http://www.emedicine.com/MED/topic2839.htm
REP - 18 May 2006 22:36 GMT
> <Well, Rxlist isn't the end-all and be-all; it's just one tool. Apsirin
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Chronic NSAID use is also associated with renal papillary necrosis.

Yes, but the OP has IgA Nephropathy - proteinuria is more of a concern.  
I believe renal papillary necrosis is discusses in the section about
Clinoril.

Signature

"Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner."
- Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather

Spike - 19 May 2006 12:36 GMT
> I'm not sure how an opioid receptor antagonist would work for FSGS.

I don't think the effect against MS is due to the opioid receptor
antagonism, there must be some other effect of Naltrexone responsible
for the autoimmune fixing. Doses for LDN are 11-16 times less than those
of normal naltrexone, a dose at which the opioid receptor agonism would
not be significant. Also as you have probably read, more than 4.5 mg of
Naltrexone does not work for MS anymore, it's difficult to explain that
with opioid receptor antagonism.

> I
> can see how it might work for MS ... but I haven't read the studies yet,
> just looked up what it is. Therapy with it would suck though - I take
> narcotic analgesics!

Probably at the dose of LDN, the antinarcotic effect is close to zero...

Yesterday I found another interesting thing. Instead of Clinoril, one
might think about taking acetaminophen together with Erdosteine and/or
Propylthiouracil.
Look at these studies:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra
ct&list_uids=16532256&query_hl=7&itool=pubmed_docsum


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra
ct&list_uids=16354242&query_hl=7&itool=pubmed_docsum

REP - 19 May 2006 21:21 GMT
> Yesterday I found another interesting thing. Instead of Clinoril, one
> might think about taking acetaminophen together with Erdosteine and/or
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abst
> ract&list_uids=16354242&query_hl=7&itool=pubmed_docsum

The reason for taking Clinoril at all would be for its ati-inflammatory
properties. For some injuries/conditions, treatment with acetominophen
simply isn't "good enough" - bursitis, for one example, really needs an
anti-inflammatory. Sometimes, localized conditions may respond to
cortisone injections, which are less risky than oral steroids, but they
aren't always appropriate, and an oral steroid may be inappropriate for
whatever reason.

That said, Erdosteine sounds very interesting - I'll ask my doctor when
I see him in about half an hour!

Signature

"Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner."
- Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather

 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.