Medical Forum / General / General / April 2006
Kissinger and Rockefeller Connections to American Central Intelligence and the Origins of AIDS and Ebola
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Quintal - 19 Apr 2006 11:17 GMT alt.conspiracy,fr.soc.complots,fr.bio.medecine,sci.med,francom.esoterisme http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/aids-coverups/Kissinger-Rockefeller-AIDS.html "Kissinger and Rockefeller Connections to American Central Intelligence and the Origins of AIDS and Ebola" A Speech Before the Citizens Against Legal Loopholes Rally The Capitol Mall, Washington, D.C. Labor Day Weekend, 1996
By Leonard G. Horowitz Tetrahedron, LLC PO Box 2033 Sandpoint, ID 83864 Toll free order line: 888-508-4787
Dear Friends and Patriots,
My name is Dr. Len Horowitz, and some time ago, probably like many of you, I considered myself a lifelong liberal democrat. Fortunately, or unfortunately, that part of me died. When I realized the forces behind so-called liberal democracy were the flip side of the same corrupt coin as the republican political establishment, that is, I opened my eyes to witness a shadow government of military-medical-industrial dictators, the naive person I was had a stroke, keeled over, and praise the lord, died. And I didn't need to call Dr. Jack Kevorkian in to let it rest in peace. What brought me to this realization and this meeting today is a unique story.
Six years ago, most of you can recall, the highly publicized case of the Florida dentist who infected his patients with AIDS--the case of, the beautiful teenager, Kimberly Bergalis, who died shortly after testifying before Congress in a wheel-chair. At the time I was serving as the chief professional advisor to the largest dental and medical catalog supply company in the world. The day the story broke I was assigned to develop patient and professional educational materials to help allay the public's growing fear of visiting dental and medical offices in the age of AIDS. You may recall how terrified most people became about a routine trip to the dentist at that time. So I began by investigating the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's (CDCs) official investigation reports on the case. And to make a long story short, I found the reports to be scientifically bogus. I later learned that the government had covered-up key evidence in the tragedy in an effort the maintain the case a 'unsolvable mystery.' In essence they had committed scientific fraud and misconduct and, in the process, concealed the most incriminating evidence against the dentist--a very bright, scientifically trained, ex-military dentist, who believed he was dying of a virus that the government had created. Yes, you heard me correctly, a virus that the government had created.
Now, the problem I had was reconciling the fact that the dentist, though a psychopath, was no fool. And he held in his possession one of the most incriminating documents I had ever seen. A 1970 Department of Defense Appropriations request for $10 million for the development of immune system ravaging viruses for germ warfare. In fact, the document, which I lay before you today, reads like this:
'Within the next 5 to 10 years, it would probably be possible to make a new infective microorganism which could differ in certain important aspects from any known disease-causing organisms. Most important of these is that it might be refractory to the immunological and therapeutic processes upon which we depend to maintain our relative freedom from infectious disease. . . A research program to explore the feasibility of this could be completed in approximately 5 years at a total cost of $10 million. . . . It is a highly controversial issue and there are many who believe such research should not be undertaken lest it lead to yet another method of massive killing of large populations."
In fact it was the National Academy of Sciences-National Research Council (NAS-NRC) that had informed the Defense Department that this research was possible.
Now, according to legal testimony given to government officials, this knowledge enraged the Florida dentist so much it moved him to intentionally inject his patients with HIV-tainted anesthetics. In essence, he did what all organized serial killers love to do, express a vendetta, like the mail-bomber, play games with the authorities, trap them in a catch-22, whereby they'd be damned if they told the truth, and called him a serial killer, because the whole world would want to know motive, and every reporter would ultimately find out as I did, what drove him crazy and who he really hated and ultimately attacked. And if they told a lie, or maintained the case, as they did, a mystery, it would hold America and all of health care hostage to irrational fear of routine health care in the age of AIDS.
Now all of this I documented in three published scientific reports and my last book "Deadly Innocence: The Kimberly Bergalis Case--Solving the Greatest Murder Mystery in the History of American Medicine." I present these publications and documents here for your critical examination.
So Dr. Acer created a crime, a mystery, that couldn't be solved, without implicating the government and causing a larger mystery to be investigated. That is, the origin of AIDS and Ebola--the subject of my last three years of research, and why I have come before you today. In fact, I investigated the Department of Defense's germ warfare appropriations request and learned that the option to develop synthetic biological agents--bioweapons as alternatives to nuclear weapons--came from Dr. Henry Kissinger, who was gradually placed in his position of authority as National Security Advisor under Richard Nixon, the most powerful man in government, by Nelson Rockefeller and his affiliates at the Council on Foreign Relations.
Moreover, I traced where the money went. It went, in fact, to a firm called Litton Bionetics, a subsidiary of the mega-military contractor Litton Industries, whose President, Roy Ash, was being considered as an alternate to Henry Kissinger for the National Security Advisor post. Instead, Roy Ash became Richard Nixon's chairman of the Presidents Advisory Council on Executive Organizations, and 'Assistant to the President of the United States.' And Litton Industries was given over $5 billion in military contracts during the first term of the Nixon administration, $10 million of which went towards the development of AIDS-like viruses. A mere drop in the bucket.
But before I tell you exactly what was done with your $10 million of taxpayer money, some background on Kissinger and Rockefeller's influence is in order.
Among Henry Kissinger's most influential patrons as he worked his way up the ladder of success to become Nixon's 'Deputy to the President for National Security,' was Nelson Aldrich Rockefeller, the son of Standard Oil, that is Exxon, heir John D. Rockefeller, Jr.
The Rockefeller family's involvement in the medical/industrial complex, health science research, and American politics is clearly important.
Before World War II, major administration of medical research, or financing by federal agencies, had been generally opposed by America's scientific community. In fact, it was only during times of war that organizations like the NAS or the NRC received major funding. Both the NAS, established during the Civil War, and the NRC, set up during the First World War, were largely ignored in times of peace.
Between 1900 and 1940, private foundations and universities financed most medical research. According to Paul Starr, author of The Social Transformation of American Medicine: The rise of a sovereign profession and the making of a vast industry, 'the most richly endowed research center, the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Research was established in New York in 1902 and by 1928 had received from John D. Rockefeller $65 million in endowment funds.' In contrast, as late as 1938, as little as $2.8 million in federal funding was budgeted for the entire U.S. Public Health Service. Therefore, it is easy to see that Rockefeller family investment in health science research predated, and far surpassed, even the federal government's.
More than the New Deal, the Second World War created the greatest boom in federal government and private industry support for medical research. Prior to the war, American science and medicine was heavily influenced by German models. This precedent was bolstered during the 1930s when the Nazis purged Jewish scientists from German universities and biological laboratories. These changes, according to Starr, significantly altered the course of American health science and medicine. Many of Germany's most brilliant Jewish researchers emigrated to the United States just as the movement burgeoned to privatize war related biological and medical research.
At this time, the Rockefeller led medical/industrial complex was fully poised to influence, and take advantage of, Congress's 'first series of measures to promote cancer research and cancer control.' In 1937, the new federal legislation authorized the establishment of the National Cancer Institute under the National Institutes of Health, and, for the first time, 'the Public Health Service to make grants to outside researchers.' The Rockefellers exercised significant control over the outcomes of these grants and research efforts through the foundations they established.
Following the war, Henry Kissinger, who had become General Alexander Bolling's German translator and principle assistant (Bolling, of course, was the 'Godfather' to the Joint Intelligence Objectives Agency that ran "Project Paperclip," the secret exfiltration of approximately 2,000 high level Nazi's, about 900 of whom were military scientists and medical researchers, including Erich Traub, Hitler's top biological weapons developer and virus expert. Bolling also served as a high ranking member of the Inter-American Defense Board, a Washington based group that delivered Walter Emil Schreiber, Hitler's chief medical scientist, the "Angel of Death" Joseph Mengele, and his assistant, "the butcher of Lyon," Klaus Barbie, among others, to safe havens in South America where they worked on CIA projects.) In fact it was Henry Kissinger's job to seek and find such Nazi's that might be of service to America, and Kissinger became the chief of Army Counter-Intelligence in this regard. He trained other agents to hunt down Nazi's at the European Command Intelligence School in Oberammergau, not to be tried for war crimes necessarily, but rather to serve U.S. military rather than Russian interests.
It was this operation that principally spirited the creation of the CIA as a cover agency for the powerful Gehlen Org, the German intelligence agency run by Reinhard Gehlen--an organization whose power superseded even the Nazi SS because of its prewar connections with German military intelligence.
After Hitler, Gehlen served Allen Welsh Dulles, whose "Operation Sunshine" brought Nazis into the U.S. spy service.
You may be interested to know who paid for the importation of Nazis into American central intelligence, the military, and industry? Three groups: The first was "The Sovereign Military Order of Malta" (SMOM), perhaps the most powerful reactionary segment of European aristocracy, that for almost a thousand years, starting with the crusades in the Twelfth Century, funded military operations against countries and ideas considered a threat to its power; Second was the Nazi war chest that was largely funneled through the Vatican and the Rockefeller owned Chase Manhattan Bank, whose Paris branch conducted business as usual throughout the Nazi occupation of France, and thirdly, some of us and our parents--American taxpayers.
Moreover, during this period, the Council on Foreign Relations, along with the CIA, grew in power under the leadership of Nelson Rockefeller, and in 1955, while serving as President Eisenhower's assistant for international affairs, Rockefeller invited Kissinger to discuss national security issues at the Quantico (Virginia) Marine Base. Following their meeting, according to Walter Isaacson's biography of Kissinger, the diplomat became Rockefeller's 'closest intellectual associate,' and soon after, Kissinger authored several military proposals for Eisenhower to consider. Unimpressed, Eisenhower turned them down.
As a result, Rockefeller sent Eisenhower his resignation and then launched a Special Studies Project that explored the 'critical choices' America faced militarily in the coming years. Kissinger agreed to direct this new project and published a 468-page book on his findings. The treatise proposed that tactical nuclear weapons be developed and 'a bomb shelter [be built] in every house' in preparation for limited thermonuclear war. 'The willingness to engage in nuclear war when necessary is part of the price of our freedom,' Kissinger argued.
So those of you my age can recall the anxiety grade school students felt while drilling for possible nuclear attacks. You can thank Kissinger and the Rockefeller-led military-industrialists for this "price for freedom."
Eisenhower, you may remember, warned America that the gravest threat to world security, democracy, and even spirituality, was the growing military/industrial complex. And the Rockefellers and Kissinger played leading roles in its evil expansion. Bent on creating what President Bush openly heralded as a "New World Order," few people realize the current international alignment of economic powers is a direct result of actualizing Henry Kissinger's contemporary manifesto--a tribute to the Sovereign Military Order of Malta--entitled "The Meaning of History." In this Kissinger 1955 Harvard doctoral thesis he argues that the concept of peace on earth is naive. Peace must be secured by the creation of small wars around the planet on a continuing basis so as to maintain an international order of economic powers, and of course, keep the military industrialists happy.
In my latest book, "Emerging Viruses: AIDS & Ebola--Nature, Accident, or Intentional?", I traced Dr. Erich Traub's movements to the U.S. Naval Medical Research Institute, where he conducted experiments on animals to determine the lethal doses of more than forty strains of highly infectious viruses. Within ten years, the Navy's Biomedical Research Laboratory, in association with the University of California, along with Litton Bionetics, became a chief supplier of viruses and cell cultures for NCI researchers throughout the world. Funding for this work was largely controlled by the NCI, Rockefeller and Sloan Foundations.
A search through Sloan Foundation's annual reports, on file in Manhattan's New York Public Library, revealed nine ghastly and incriminating reasons that, most incredibly, tied all the elements of my "Emerging Viruses" investigation together. The Sloan Foundation: (1) supported black educational initiatives consistent with the COINTELPRO Black Nationalist Hate Group campaign (you may recall reports last year that in surveys of 1,000 Southern Christian African Americans, two-thirds reported their belief that the AIDS epidemic may be genocide, while one-third was convinced it was; (2) the Sloan Foundation administered mass-media-public-persuasion experiments completely consistent with the CIA's Project MKULTRA - efforts to develop brainwashing technologies and drugs to affect large populations; (3) funded much of the earliest cancer research involving the genetic engineering of mutant viruses; (4) began major funding of the National Academy of Sciences, Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory (for 'neuroscience' and molecular genetics research), the Salk Institute (for viral research), and the Scientists' Institute for Public Information between 1968 and 1970; (5) funded population control studies by Planned Parenthood-World Population, New York, N.Y.; (6) funded the Community Blood Council of Greater New York, Inc., the 'council of doctors' who established the infamous New York City Blood Bank which allowed more than 10,000 hemophiliacs and countless others to become infected with HIV because they allegedly didn't want to spend $150 million to screen the blood; (7) maintained Laurence S. Rockefeller, the director of the Community Blood Council of Greater New York- the international blood bankers - and the president of the Rockefeller Brothers Fund, as chairman of the board of the Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, and a trustee for the Sloan Foundation; (8) gave in excess of $20,000 annually to the Council on Foreign Relations; and (9) maintained among its 'marketable securities,' 16,505 shares of Chase Manhattan Bank stock (in 1967, which it apparently sold by 1970 probably to avoid conflict of interest charges) along with 24,400Ð53,000 shares issued by Merck & Co., Inc. (the company whose President, George W. Merck, was director of America's biological weapons industry, and whose hepatitis B and polio vaccines most plausibly transmitted AIDS throughout the world).
Also in "Emerging Viruses: AIDS & Ebola," you will learn exactly what was done with the $10 million Congress gave the DOD for the development of AIDS-like viruses, because I published the relevant contracts. You will learn that Dr. Robert Gallo, the famous NCI molecular biologist, pardoned by President Clinton last year for scientific fraud and misconduct, and credited with the discovery of the AIDS virus, set about to develop immune system ravaging, AIDS-like viruses, along with other Litton Bionetics researchers. You will learn that they took monkey viruses that were humanly benign, recombined them with DNA, RNA, and enzymes from other animal viruses that caused leukemias, lymphomas, and sarcomas, and then to get them to jump species, they cultured these new mutant viruses in human white blood cells in some studies, and human fetal tissue cells in other studies, to produce immune-system-destroying, cancer-causing viruses that could enter humans and produce virtually identical effects to what the AIDS virus is currently doing in people around the world.
Indeed, it was contaminated live viral vaccines that spread this disease and likely others, including chronic fatigue, certain leukemias, and possibly Gulf War Syndrome as well, to vast populations. In fact, today's live viral vaccines, including the oral polio vaccine required by law be given to our children, are still littered with simian (monkey) virus contaminants since they are developed in monkey kidney cells, and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration turns a blind eye to as many as 100 live monkey virus contaminants per vaccine dose, and is barred from telling health professionals and even health scientists this truth because of pharmaceutical industry dictated proprietary laws and non-disclosure agreements.
In the end, the research question I asked, "Did these viruses, AIDS and Ebola, evolve naturally, were they accidentally produced, or were they intentionally created and deployed?" I conclude, unquestionably, they are not natural. I leave you the reader, and concerned citizens of America and the world, to decide whether it was a horrible accident or treacherous covert population control experiment.
I ask all of you to consider the pain and cost of the current and coming plagues, including the escalating rates of virus-linked cancers like prostate and breast cancer, certain leukemias and lymphomas, and other vaccine contaminant related illnesses including hyperactivity disorders in children and escalating sudden infant death rates. I believe you will realize that the pain and cost of denial and indifference to this horrible reality is far greater than the toll your political action might cost. I therefore urge you to join our growing grassroots network of health consumers, professionals, scientists, patriots, and concerned citizens in our search for answers and solutions. I urge you to help us pressure Congress for a full investigation of these published facts, and to allocate the funding needed to effect appropriate solutions to these urgent health care problems.
Let me end by giving you, and our home viewers, two resources to contact in this effort. The first is Tetrahedron, LLC's toll free citizen action and document order hotline 800-336-9266. And the other is our Internet web site address where you can link to various supporting organizations and individuals. That address is http://www.tetrahedron.org
Thank you very much, and God bless.
Copyright © 1996, Leonard G. Horowitz. All rights reserved.
Quintal - 19 Apr 2006 11:24 GMT http://www.originofaids.com/articles/early.htm
Early Hepatitis B Vaccines and the Man-Made Origin of HIV/AIDS
by Leonard G. Horowitz, D.M.D., M.A., M.P.H.
This article regards a matter of global urgency transcending better known AIDS threats. It describes a universal challenge posed by ever increasing numbers of plagues predicted to depopulate at least half of the worlds current human inhabitants within two generations. This documented science virtually proves, through the process of elimination and a review of the most updated evidence, the origin of HIV/AIDS as an iatrogenic (i.e., man-made) outcome of specific vaccination experiments.
Considered reflection on this AIDS science, along with the sociopolitical correlates and antecedents of this current catastrophe, reveals the likelihood that myriad other immune dysfunctions, autoimmune diseases, and cancers, including leukemias, lymphomas, sarcomas, and other ailments linked to viral infections, have resulted from previously engineered microbes that have by accident or intent found their way from cancer virus laboratories into humanitys bloodstream by way of the most trusted public health preventativevaccinations.
If what you are about to read is true, and each point is precisely stated and meticulously documented, beyond extensive depopulation, humanitys very survival may hinge on this recognition, its implications, and our considered response. Especially relevant, when reflecting on the following facts, is the wisdom addressed by the late World Health Organization (WHO) AIDS czar, Dr. Jonathan Mann, whose life ended tragically on Flight 111 enroute to a European AIDS conference. More than a medical scientific problem, Dr. Mann said, AIDS is a sociopolitical imposition.
http://www.originofaids.com/articles/early.htm
David Wright - 21 Apr 2006 03:33 GMT >alt.conspiracy,fr.soc.complots,fr.bio.medecine,sci.med,francom.esoterisme >http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/aids-coverups/Kissinger-Rockefeller-AIDS.html [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >The Capitol Mall, Washington, D.C. >Labor Day Weekend, 1996 1996. Yeah, that figures. Always go with those ten-year-old sources.
This one looks particularly silly in that we now know where Ebola comes from: fruit bats. Yep. They're infected by it, but it's harmless to them. However, it can pass to humans, if they do something like eat a fruit bat.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me." -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
Quintal - 22 Apr 2006 10:38 GMT >>alt.conspiracy,fr.soc.complots,fr.bio.medecine,sci.med,francom.esoterisme >>http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/aids-coverups/Kissinger-Rockefeller-AIDS.html [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >harmless to them. However, it can pass to humans, if they do >something like eat a fruit bat. always funny to see a debunker belittle some guy who has produced significative results in his research. Tell us dude, have you dug up some stuff? It seems I have produced more than you by just quoting that Horowitze guy than you have by trying to discredit his text.
the point is precisely that even the text is ten years old, it is lightyears ahead from the usual industry propaganda that doesnt change and is mindlessly repeated by some.
David Wright - 22 Apr 2006 19:56 GMT >>>alt.conspiracy,fr.soc.complots,fr.bio.medecine,sci.med,francom.esoterisme >>>http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/aids-coverups/Kissinger-Rockefeller-AIDS.html [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >some stuff? It seems I have produced more than you by just quoting >that Horowitze guy than you have by trying to discredit his text. The fact that you can quote Horowitz doesn't prove anything other than that you can quote Horowitz. The fact that you just love a 10-year-old source usually means that you're afraid to look for anything more recent because it might undermine your source.
Ebola is a natural disease. It wasn't created by some biowarfare project.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me." -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
Quintal - 22 Apr 2006 20:24 GMT >>>>alt.conspiracy,fr.soc.complots,fr.bio.medecine,sci.med,francom.esoterisme >>>>http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/aids-coverups/Kissinger-Rockefeller-AIDS.html [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >10-year-old source usually means that you're afraid to look for >anything more recent because it might undermine your source. keep telling yourself stories;-) the fact that I quote horowitz proves that 1/ I have had access to it (and this can take some work, unless one is lucky to be informed by a guy like me on a newsgroup) and 2/ I have deemed it worthy of consideration enough to be posted publicly on usenet.
>Ebola is a natural disease. Grand.
> It wasn't created by some biowarfare >project. Possible. What about the many other points raised by Leonard. They arent worthy of comment?
let's see...
- "the forces behind so-called liberal democracy were the flip side of the same corrupt coin as the republican political establishment" & "I opened my eyes to witness a shadow government of military-medical-industrial dictators".
- "case of the Florida dentist who infected his patients with AIDS" : "The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's (CDCs) official investigation reports on the case" (were) "scientifically bogus. I later learned that the government had covered-up key evidence in the tragedy in an effort the maintain the case a 'unsolvable mystery.' In essence they had committed scientific fraud and misconduct and, in the process, concealed the most incriminating evidence against the dentist--a very bright, scientifically trained, ex-military dentist, who believed he was dying of a virus that the government had created."
- "He" (the dentist) "held in his possession one of the most incriminating documents I had ever seen. A 1970 Department of Defense Appropriations request for $10 million for the development of immune system ravaging viruses for germ warfare". "The document, which I lay before you today, reads like this: 'Within the next 5 to 10 years, it would probably be possible to make a new infective microorganism which could differ in certain important aspects from any known disease-causing organisms. Most important of these is that it might be refractory to the immunological and therapeutic processes upon which we depend to maintain our relative freedom from infectious disease. .. A research program to explore the feasibility of this could be completed in approximately 5 years at a total cost of $10 million. . .. It is a highly controversial issue and there are many who believe such research should not be undertaken lest it lead to yet another method of massive killing of large populations."
hold on hold on. I'm a conspiracy buff (low-grade one) yet I had never heard of the existence of such a research program yet. And still, our debunker-in-service doesnt seem baffled and quietly brushes this over with his story about the natural origin of Ebola. But, Leonard has not mentionned Ebola yet. But things are so convenient arent they? Just mention Ebola and dismiss the whole text as outdated and wrong-proven. Right? Right, that's what you do.
I'll spare you the rest of the piece. That last paragraph is bang bang enough for my taste. You have no comment on it? Good. Bye.
David Wright - 25 Apr 2006 03:31 GMT >>>>>alt.conspiracy,fr.soc.complots,fr.bio.medecine,sci.med,francom.esoterisme >>>>>http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/aids-coverups/Kissinger-Rockefeller-AIDS.html [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >keep telling yourself stories;-) Why not? You have Horowitz to tell you stories.
>the fact that I quote horowitz proves that 1/ I have had access to it >(and this can take some work, unless one is lucky to be informed by a >guy like me on a newsgroup) and 2/ I have deemed it worthy of >consideration enough to be posted publicly on usenet. How splendid for all of us that you have done so. Why it took you so long to find Horowitz is a mystery to me; I've been aware of him and his looney theories for years.
>>Ebola is a natural disease. > >Grand. No, just a fact.
>> It wasn't created by some biowarfare >>project. > >Possible. What about the many other points raised by Leonard. They >arent worthy of comment? Not really.
>let's see... > >- "the forces behind so-called liberal democracy were the flip side >of the same corrupt coin as the republican political establishment" & >"I opened my eyes to witness a shadow government of >military-medical-industrial dictators". Why would that be worthy of comment? It's just a sweeping assertion, combined with an implicit self-contratulation from Horowitz to himself for being so terrifically perceptive.
>- "case of the Florida dentist who infected his patients with AIDS" : >"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's (CDCs) [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >ex-military dentist, who believed he was dying of a virus that the >government had created." So Horowitz says. Whoopee.
>- "He" (the dentist) "held in his possession one of the most >incriminating documents I had ever seen. A 1970 Department of Defense >Appropriations request for $10 million for the development of immune >system ravaging viruses for germ warfare". It doesn't strike you as at all odd that a crazed, dying dentist somehow has in his possession a fantastically incriminating secret government document? How'd he get it? Why did he have it? Why would a dentist have this thing in the first place?
>"The document, which I lay before you today, reads like this: >'Within the next 5 to 10 years, it would probably be possible to make [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >it lead to yet another method of massive killing of large >populations." Good point. Note that it says that it *might* be possible to do this. The trouble with HIV is it takes a long time to kill the person it infects, so even if you whip it up today, it's going to be quite some time before you know what you have. And how would you design it in the first place? I know that various conspiracy theorists claim that HIV is derived from visna virus, but it's not. They are not that similar.
HIV-1 *is* virtually identical to SIVcpz, an immunodeficiency virus that infects chimpanzees, and was probably the source of HIV-1.
The trouble with these "HIV was created artificially" is it doesn't really have an explanation for the similarity to SIVcpz, nor to the fact that we have large phylogenetic trees for a whole family of immunodeficiency viruses that infect a wide range of monkeys, apes, and humans.
Conspiracy theorists are people who can't accept the idea that random bad things might happen without any conscious intent. Instead, they want someone to blame for every bad thing that happens, so they concoct these marvelously complex theories explaining why the government or big business or the Jews or the Rosicrucians or someone are Behind It All. It's so much more comforting to have someone to blame; blaming random chance and bad luck is no fun at all.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me." -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
Quintal - 25 Apr 2006 08:17 GMT >>>>>>alt.conspiracy,fr.soc.complots,fr.bio.medecine,sci.med,francom.esoterisme >>>>>>http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/aids-coverups/Kissinger-Rockefeller-AIDS.html [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > >No, just a fact. Oh, really? That you've observed yourself? Or would you be relying on your trust in some other people in order to believe that it is a fact and not a story.
>>> It wasn't created by some biowarfare >>>project. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >combined with an implicit self-contratulation from Horowitz to himself >for being so terrifically perceptive. That point is worthy of comment because it's point #1 that defenders of Big Pharma and Big State do miss. They live in a Disneyland where the state is some parental figure that is bound to take care of them, and where industry is there to help them, feed them, cure them and would never betray them. Or they do know that these powers are self-serving only, but they hope that by working for them they will escape the sorry destiny of those who are used by them. Same thing overall anyway, a parental figure.
>>- "case of the Florida dentist who infected his patients with AIDS" : >>"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's (CDCs) [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >somehow has in his possession a fantastically incriminating secret >government document? Not at all. For one thing, he had good motives for having let go of delusion #1 refered to above.
> How'd he get it? Why did he have it? Why >would a dentist have this thing in the first place? He might be interested by this topic. He might do something else with his thoughts than brushing off such idea as absurd or just too unconventional for his comfort. He also might be willing and able to spread the information. Contrary to common belief it's not hard to get information, the limit is not on what is provided to someone but it is on what someone is ready to accept and put into practice. Information is provided according to the ability to use it.
>>"The document, which I lay before you today, reads like this: >>'Within the next 5 to 10 years, it would probably be possible to make [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >it infects, so even if you whip it up today, it's going to be quite >some time before you know what you have. yet another a-posteriori reasonning. What this type of reasonning shows is that such an idea is too disturbing for you to consider it impartially.
>And how would you design it >in the first place? I know that various conspiracy theorists claim >that HIV is derived from visna virus, but it's not. They are not that >similar. As a matter of fact, I claim that HIV has nothing to do with AIDS. I just dont buy the germs theory of illnesses in general. It doesnt bother me anyway to quote people who claim that it's a man-made biowarfare virus.
>HIV-1 *is* virtually identical to SIVcpz, an immunodeficiency virus >that infects chimpanzees, and was probably the source of HIV-1. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >immunodeficiency viruses that infect a wide range of monkeys, apes, >and humans. completely out of my range.
>Conspiracy theorists are people who can't accept the idea that random >bad things might happen without any conscious intent. nice assumption. Some man-made story designed to explain something, but bearing little to do with facts;-)
> Instead, they >want someone to blame for every bad thing that happens, so they >concoct these marvelously complex theories explaining why the >government or big business or the Jews or the Rosicrucians or someone >are Behind It All. What bad things? Who believes in bad things here? I dont. "There are no good nor bad things in the universe, for everything was created according to immutable laws", wrote a teacher of mine. It's not about believing in evil-doers, it's about accepting that states and corporations do treat populations as cattle, instead of believing that they are protective parental figures. The fact that people on top of the power-pyramid do see people at its base as a simple ressource like coal or water is easily demonstrable. The evaluation of their power to influence humanity's destiny, however, is mostly a matter of belief. That might surprise you, but my natural inclination is to think that "they" have no power over others. The point is not to blame the jews or the rosicrucians or the illuminati, it is to acknowledge the structure of power of our society in order to topple it down inside oneself and reinstate spirit instead of matter at the top of one's own personality, which happens to stimulate others to do the same and can ultimately change the structure of power of our now-worldwide society.
> It's so much more comforting to have someone to >blame; blaming random chance and bad luck is no fun at all. Yet another story to justify blind faith in authorities? Blaming random chance and bad luck is not innocent either, BTW.
> -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net > These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. > "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me." > -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth David Wright - 27 Apr 2006 03:27 GMT >>>>>>>alt.conspiracy,fr.soc.complots,fr.bio.medecine,sci.med,francom.esoterisme >>>>>>>http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/aids-coverups/Kissinger-Rockefeller-AIDS.html [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] >your trust in some other people in order to believe that it is a fact >and not a story. Let me see -- you put your trust in Horowitz, and he's 100% reliable, but I put my trust in someone else and you figure it's "just a story." Would that be an accurate summary of your position?
>>>- "the forces behind so-called liberal democracy were the flip side >>>of the same corrupt coin as the republican political establishment" & [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >and where industry is there to help them, feed them, cure them and >would never betray them. Anyone with half a brain in the US (that doesn't include our president, who has less than half) can easily see that the State is not our friend and neither is big business, though at this point it's getting harder to tell the two apart.
>>>- "He" (the dentist) "held in his possession one of the most >>>incriminating documents I had ever seen. A 1970 Department of Defense [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Not at all. For one thing, he had good motives for having let go of >delusion #1 refered to above. Sorry, that doesn't explain how some random dentist got hold of a supposed top-secret government report.
>>>"The document, which I lay before you today, reads like this: >>>'Within the next 5 to 10 years, it would probably be possible to make [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >What this type of reasonning shows is that such an idea is too >disturbing for you to consider it impartially. No, the idea is too *silly* for me to take it seriously. Even if, today, I somehow whipped up a designer virus that caused a disease like AIDS, how would I know it worked? The only creature I can try it on is humans (it doesn't infect anything else) and I watch the subject for weeks and I don't see any results, so I decide it didn't work.
You can't just look at a random virus and know what it will do, you know -- even assuming it does anything at all, which is may not.
>>And how would you design it >>in the first place? I know that various conspiracy theorists claim [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >It doesnt bother me anyway to quote people who claim that it's a >man-made biowarfare virus. Well, if HIV has nothing to do with AIDS, what difference does it make where it came from?
>>HIV-1 *is* virtually identical to SIVcpz, an immunodeficiency virus >>that infects chimpanzees, and was probably the source of HIV-1. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >completely out of my range. I figured.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me." -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
Quintal - 29 Apr 2006 20:55 GMT >>>>>>>>alt.conspiracy,fr.soc.complots,fr.bio.medecine,sci.med,francom.esoterisme >>>>>>>>http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/aids-coverups/Kissinger-Rockefeller-AIDS.html [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > >Let me see -- you put your trust in Horowitz, and he's 100% reliable, What an outreageous assumption. What a mistake. I do not trust Horowitz for anything else than being himself.
>but I put my trust in someone else and you figure it's "just a story." Of course it is. If someone tells you something and you believe it just because you trust that person (or institution or corporation), then you are believing "just a story".
>Would that be an accurate summary of your position? It's an impressive description of your assumption about my mindset.
>>>>- "the forces behind so-called liberal democracy were the flip side >>>>of the same corrupt coin as the republican political establishment" & [quoted text clipped - 92 lines] > "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me." > -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth Robert - 22 Apr 2006 20:53 GMT > alt.conspiracy,fr.soc.complots,fr.bio.medecine,sci.med,francom.esoterisme http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/aids-coverups/Kissinger-Rockefeller-AIDS.html
> "Kissinger and Rockefeller Connections to American Central > Intelligence and the Origins of AIDS and Ebola" [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > you, I considered myself a lifelong liberal democrat. Fortunately, or > unfortunately, that part of me died. When I realized the forces behind Snip the rest of this self aggrandizement crap.
The armed forces indeed had and does have biowarfare branches. To say that went to a backboard and drew up a new virus is laughable. Yes they have researched immune attacking agents and yes, they have always been known agents and trying to alter the known virus. It is laughable to think they would come up with a virus that kills in ten years rather than a few days. In the battle field one is interested in days and not years. One is also interested in aerosol transmission of these agents and not blood transmission. It's laughable to think that the military would invent an agent transmitted by sex. Is there a lot of sex going on in the battlefield? The most widely and less idiotic conspiracy theory is that the vaccine being developed at the time for hepatitis B, which were gay men in S.F. caused the dramatic increase in HIV cases do to these vaccines generated from these men. I think the military has developed a virus that causes people who believe in conspiracy. It is a neurotropic virus that this guy has. The military is quite capable of generating a weapons grade anthrax, chlamydia or any other known agent, but a new virus, hardly.
Quintal - 23 Apr 2006 12:48 GMT >> alt.conspiracy,fr.soc.complots,fr.bio.medecine,sci.med,francom.esoterisme >> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >agent transmitted by sex. Is there a lot of sex going on in the >battlefield? apparently you're not aware of assignments of the military beyond "the battlefield".
>The most widely and less idiotic conspiracy theory is that the vaccine being >developed at the time for hepatitis B, which were gay men in S.F. caused the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >The military is quite capable of generating a weapons grade anthrax, >chlamydia or any other known agent, but a new virus, hardly.
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