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Medical Forum / General / General / March 2006

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WARNING: Industry is Blogging These NewsGroups to Protect Their Monopolies

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Ilena Rose - 20 Mar 2006 18:26 GMT
The Rag-tag Posse includes several Pharma Bloggers ...

Probert calls himself 'The Probe"

David Gorski calls himself "OracKnows" and has others in
Barrett/Polevoy's Posse advertising his industry blog ...

Andrew Langer has a "liberty" blog that is just another way to
advertise his Paymasters ...

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org/QuackWatchWatch.htm#Rag-tag
C A III A - 20 Mar 2006 18:31 GMT
I actually see the opposite -- anti-pharm "coalition". A couple of people
who are overblogging several NG's acting as borderline trolls accusing
pharmas with all possible sins.

<Ilena> wrote in message news:hapt121dh83hek681s790nv4cmersqig16@4ax.com...

> The Rag-tag Posse includes several Pharma Bloggers ...
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from
> http://www.SecureIX.com ***
Dragon's Girl - 20 Mar 2006 19:06 GMT
>I actually see the opposite -- anti-pharm "coalition". A couple of people
>who are overblogging several NG's acting as borderline trolls accusing
>pharmas with all possible sins.

Be careful what you say about them.
If you call a spade a spade, and the cards don't suit Ilena, she will 'sh.t
page' you.
You can't tell her any of this.
You can't even PROVE it to her with past posts, etc.
She simply will not hear that she is wrong, and will not admit it no matter
how much proof to the contrary you show her.
A simple discussion on whether or not Ritalin helps kids with ADD/ADDHD, and
your opinion or experiences being contrary to what Ilena thinks, causes her
to label you.
Just as she has done with countless others.
I've read, with interest, the comments of the 'posse' over about a year and
a half now.
Many times their thoughts are the SAME as Ilena's, many times they are not.
For the times that they are not, Ilena persecutes them and uses those
opinions as 'proof'...ever neglecting to point out the many times that they
are...for that would never further her agenda.
I've noted this, and many other things....including how she has strung Mark
Probert up by his unmentionables and ties him to Steven Barrett.
When all along, Probert has maintained that he did not agree with Barrett
suing Ilena.
It's in the archives, anyone can look it up.
She ignores that, of course.
Note, she hypes all the 'blogs' but never shows links for them.
Likely cause?
She MAY have seen a blog, and ASSUMED that it was one of the people she
mentions here....but can't prove it...so rather than find out before she
opens her fat mouth(botox?), she utilizes Usenet to publicly harass.
I personally don't believe a word she says.
Reason?
Just weeks ago she advertised that I was involved, in 1994, in hiring a
private detective to find her where abouts.
It's absurd.
Over half the people she's tied to me are people I have never had any
contact with what so ever.
The other half I have had contact with only on usenet, or privately about
issues OTHER THAN those talked about in these groups.
Last year a woman named Myrl Jeffcoat posted a post about another breast
implant victim who was living in the hurricane area.
I wrote Mrs. Jeffcoat privately and asked if they had any more information
about the woman (whom I also did not know).
Mrs. Jeffcoat wrote me back and told me that she had been heard from and
that she was doing well.
That was my last contact with her...September of last year.
However, Ilena reports that I am WORKING for Mrs. Jeffcoat.
And she recently became so enraged with me, and others on the SBI board that
she threatened to make a call to Mrs Jeffcoat's broker...Mrs Jeffcoat was
employed as a real estate agent apparently (something else I did not know
until Ilena made her threat)
Basically, she said if we didn't shut up she would attempt to cause Mrs
Jeffcoat problems at her job.
Mrs Jeffcoat had not posted on usenet to the best of my knowledge in many
many months by this time.
At one point she became so upset with Probert that she actually contacted
his wife about his usenet posts.
Just weeks ago she posted the city that another woman lives in.
She recently implied that my mother was a figment of my imagination, not a
real person.  Yet, she's dedicated a web page to her in which she pretends
to 'talk' to my deceased mother about me.
I know that most of what she says about me is untrue, and because of that, I
realize that it's very likely that what she says about others is untrue as
well.
If it's not untrue, it's take out of context, or manipulated.
Ilena has slandered so many people that she does everything in her power to
make sure that no one knows where she is so that she can't be served with
summons.
And she's pretty smart to do so because there are literally dozens of people
that she has harassed who are just itching to see her in court.
But, what the heck, why am I telling you all this?
It seems obvious that you are capable of reading for yourself, and finding
out for yourself, as you have obviously done so already.
A grain of salt is all one needs to be a usenet poster and reader.

Signature

Betty Jean Hammond Wirsen
Daughter Of Charlene Looney Hammond Hash
Opponent Of Humantics Foundation and it's founder, Ilena Rosenthal.
Opponent Of Massive amounts of Misinformation about private citizens by
Ilena Rosenthal.
Opponent Of Harassment of Breast Implanted Women by Ilena Rosenthal.
Opponent Of Harassment of Family members of Breast Implanted Women by Ilena
Rosenthal.
Opponent Of Shady Practices By Ilena Rosenthal working under the guise of
advocacy.
Opponent Of Humantics Foundation And Ilena Rosenthal for the use of the name
of Charlene
Looney Hammond Hash, a deceased implant victim, for the purpose of futhering
smear campaigns
against implant victims and their families.

> <Ilena> wrote in message
> news:hapt121dh83hek681s790nv4cmersqig16@4ax.com...
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>> *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from
>> http://www.SecureIX.com ***
Jan Drew - 21 Mar 2006 00:46 GMT
"Dragon's Girl"

>>I actually see the opposite -- anti-pharm "coalition". A couple of people
>>who are overblogging several NG's acting as borderline trolls accusing
>>pharmas with all possible sins.

>IIena

>IIena

>IIena

>IIena

>IIena

>IIena

>IIena

>IIena

>> <Ilena> wrote in message
>> news:hapt121dh83hek681s790nv4cmersqig16@4ax.com...
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>>> *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from
>>> http://www.SecureIX.com ***
vernon - 20 Mar 2006 19:50 GMT
>I actually see the opposite -- anti-pharm "coalition". A couple of people
>who are overblogging several NG's acting as borderline trolls accusing
>pharmas with all possible sins.

Borderline??

> <Ilena> wrote in message
> news:hapt121dh83hek681s790nv4cmersqig16@4ax.com...
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>> *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from
>> http://www.SecureIX.com ***
C A III A - 20 Mar 2006 19:52 GMT
>>I actually see the opposite -- anti-pharm "coalition". A couple of people
>>who are overblogging several NG's acting as borderline trolls accusing
>>pharmas with all possible sins.
>
> Borderline??

I am new here. Still fresh and do not feel the dynamics to speak freely.
RGrannus - 20 Mar 2006 22:01 GMT
>I actually see the opposite -- anti-pharm "coalition". A couple of people
>who are overblogging several NG's acting as borderline trolls accusing
>pharmas with all possible sins.

More likely ol' Pete comes under Hanlon's Razor:
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by
stupidity."

He's kind of like fundamentalists: They KNOW the one true way, so
anyone who disagrees with them must be evil--Case closed.
Mark Probert - 20 Mar 2006 23:50 GMT
>> I actually see the opposite -- anti-pharm "coalition". A couple of people
>> who are overblogging several NG's acting as borderline trolls accusing
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> He's kind of like fundamentalists: They KNOW the one true way, so
> anyone who disagrees with them must be evil--Case closed.

Many advocates of alternative medicine are just that way.
Rod - 21 Mar 2006 14:27 GMT
Hi Mark,

Bet I could site more cases of Doctors failing than you could of Advocates
of Alternative Medicine failing.

Cheers, Rod.
>>> I actually see the opposite -- anti-pharm "coalition". A couple of
>>> people
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Many advocates of alternative medicine are just that way.
vernon - 21 Mar 2006 15:02 GMT
> Hi Mark,
>
> Bet I could site more cases of Doctors failing than you could of Advocates
> of Alternative Medicine failing.

Probably  not and only because complete information is not available to
alterrrnative advocates.  one oout of five doctors is a compplete dunce.
Maybe 1.5 out of alternative practioners are.  Add to that the 1 out of 5
that are con artists.

> Cheers, Rod.
>>>> I actually see the opposite -- anti-pharm "coalition". A couple of
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>>
>> Many advocates of alternative medicine are just that way.
Rod - 21 Mar 2006 15:18 GMT
>> Hi Mark,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Maybe 1.5 out of alternative practioners are.  Add to that the 1 out of 5
> that are con artists.

Well I would disagree. Facts are that our papers are full  of the
incompentency of Doctors on a daily basis quite apart from the failure of
"Essential Treatments" in the casualty wards.
Politically it has become an Axe to Grind with the failure of  "Elective
Surgery" quite apart from the the incomptence of the Doctors dealing with
tragic events.
Thats not to say that they are all incompetent but rather to illustrate the
failure of the current medical system in most Western Nations.

Cheers Rod

>> Cheers, Rod.
>>>>> I actually see the opposite -- anti-pharm "coalition". A couple of
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>>>
>>> Many advocates of alternative medicine are just that way.
vernon - 21 Mar 2006 15:50 GMT
>>> Hi Mark,
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Cheers Rod

I gave "good" numbers.

Now general knowledge (ingnorance) and treatments taught to MDs are another
thing.

The biggest problem in alternative medicine is charlatons.

The ONLY way altternative will advance is to clean their own back yard.  (No
sacred cows)

>>> Cheers, Rod.
>>>>>> I actually see the opposite -- anti-pharm "coalition". A couple of
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>>>>
>>>> Many advocates of alternative medicine are just that way.
Rod - 21 Mar 2006 16:17 GMT
>>>> Hi Mark,
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> The ONLY way altternative will advance is to clean their own back yard.
> (No sacred cows)

Well I beg to differ, by stating that the greatest cure all is the Placebo
Effect and it seems that this can be induced by what you term Charlatons.
Thats not to say that there are no Charlatons in either Medical or
Alternative. A cursory glance at what is availble in Alternative is somewhat
mind boggling compared to the visit to the Doc.
By the same token a visit to the Doc can result in non satisfaction and no
remedy.
Chiropractic and Osteopaths can be a remedy when Doc fails to recognise
muscular and vertibrae problems. Of course one could argue that this group
is not Alternative.!
It simply goes on from there and people will use whatever means makes then
feel better.

I like Sauivignon Blanc myself.

Cheers, Rod.

>>>> Cheers, Rod.
>>>>>>> I actually see the opposite -- anti-pharm "coalition". A couple of
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>>>>>
>>>>> Many advocates of alternative medicine are just that way.
David Wright - 22 Mar 2006 04:32 GMT
>>>>> Hi Mark,
>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
>Well I beg to differ, by stating that the greatest cure all is the Placebo
>Effect and it seems that this can be induced by what you term Charlatons.

You can state that the placebo effect is the greatest cure-all until
you're blue in the face.  Where's your evidence?

 -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
                                -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
C A III A - 22 Mar 2006 04:59 GMT
David, question.
Where are you from? Just curious if I know you.

>>>>>> Hi Mark,
>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
>     "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
>                                 -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
David Wright - 22 Mar 2006 05:02 GMT
>David, question.
>Where are you from? Just curious if I know you.

"From" in what sense?  Where do I live?  Where did I go to school?  Or
what?

 -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
                                -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth

>>>>>>> Hi Mark,
>>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
>>     "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
>>                                 -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
C A III A - 22 Mar 2006 05:06 GMT
Yeah, location.

>>David, question.
>>Where are you from? Just curious if I know you.
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
>>>     "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
>>>                                 -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
David Wright - 22 Mar 2006 05:08 GMT
>Yeah, location.

New England.  More detail than that, I don't care to go into.
Especially with an anonymous poster.

 -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
                                -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth

>>>David, question.
>>>Where are you from? Just curious if I know you.
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
>>>>     "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
>>>>                                 -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
C A III A - 22 Mar 2006 05:13 GMT
If I thank you right now, because you were not in MMC Monday afternoon, will
you accept?

>>Yeah, location.
>
[quoted text clipped - 72 lines]
>>>>>     "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
>>>>>                                 -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
David Wright - 23 Mar 2006 03:32 GMT
>If I thank you right now, because you were not in MMC Monday afternoon, will
>you accept?

Um, certainly.  MMC?  Mass Microelectronics Center?  Some other place?
Whatever it is, I wasn't there.

 -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
                                -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth

>>>Yeah, location.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 62 lines]
>>>>>>     "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
>>>>>>                                 -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
JohnDoe - 21 Mar 2006 16:36 GMT
>>> Hi Mark,
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Cheers Rod

Feel free to move to a non-Western country where the medical system
consists of the local shaman. Put up or shut up.
David Wright - 22 Mar 2006 04:31 GMT
>>> Hi Mark,
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>incompentency of Doctors on a daily basis quite apart from the failure of
>"Essential Treatments" in the casualty wards.

That's because stories like those sell newspapers, bub.  The 99% of
the time where things work just fine, that never makes the front
page.

>Politically it has become an Axe to Grind with the failure of
>"Elective  Surgery" quite apart from the the incomptence of the
>Doctors dealing with  tragic events.

I hope that if you should suffer some traumatic injury, you'll just
call a taxi and go home rather than to hospital.

>Thats not to say that they are all incompetent but rather to
>illustrate the failure of the current medical system in most Western
>Nations.

Not much of an illustration, since you've provided no evidence.

 -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
                                -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
Jan Drew - 22 Mar 2006 06:03 GMT
>>>> Hi Mark,
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> the time where things work just fine, that never makes the front
> page.

Gee, sure are a lot of things happening in that 1% of the time.

I would list they, but Davey would have one of his hissy fits.

>>Politically it has become an Axe to Grind with the failure of
>>"Elective  Surgery" quite apart from the the incomptence of the
>>Doctors dealing with  tragic events.
>
> I hope that if you should suffer some traumatic injury, you'll just
> call a taxi and go home rather than to hospital.

Davey knows what Rod will do.

>>Thats not to say that they are all incompetent but rather to
>>illustrate the failure of the current medical system in most Western
>>Nations.
>
> Not much of an illustration, since you've provided no evidence.

Don't ya just love it. He didn't notice that Mark was the one who provided
no evidence that Advocates of Alternative Medicine are failing.

So much for Davey's blathering.

>  -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
>     These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
>     "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me."
>                                 -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
Mark Probert - 21 Mar 2006 15:14 GMT
> Hi Mark,
>
> Bet I could site more cases of Doctors failing than you could of
> Advocates of Alternative Medicine failing.

Of course you can, since the cohorts are totally different.

> Cheers, Rod.
>>>> I actually see the opposite -- anti-pharm "coalition". A couple of
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>>
>> Many advocates of alternative medicine are just that way.
Rod - 21 Mar 2006 15:26 GMT
>> Hi Mark,
>>
>> Bet I could site more cases of Doctors failing than you could of
>> Advocates of Alternative Medicine failing.
>
> Of course you can, since the cohorts are totally different.

What exactly is the difference then Mark ? Perhaps you could let us know
what the death rate is between the two different groups are ? Perhaps you
could even enlighten us as to what the sucess rates are between these
totally different cohorts of human health and well being are ?

Cheers, Rod

>> Cheers, Rod.
>>>>> I actually see the opposite -- anti-pharm "coalition". A couple of
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>>>
>>> Many advocates of alternative medicine are just that way.
Mark Probert - 21 Mar 2006 15:43 GMT
>>> Hi Mark,
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> you could even enlighten us as to what the sucess rates are between
> these totally different cohorts of human health and well being are ?

Spend some time doing some research.

I do know that even when naturopaths used Laetrile in a study, the
success rate was Z E R O.

> Cheers, Rod
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>>>>
>>>> Many advocates of alternative medicine are just that way.
C A III A - 21 Mar 2006 16:46 GMT
> Hi Mark,
>
> Bet I could site more cases of Doctors failing than you could of Advocates
> of Alternative Medicine failing.

That could be because Advocates are not really doing much, except taking a
third of the medical industry and therefore profits to "treat". While in
reality only a portion of alt-med is actually doing something. Something
non-invasive and "alternative" that helps, but does not really treat. It is
auxillary to mainstream medicine. And because if they fail, they do not
accept the blame, citing thier treatment is only marginal and cannot be
accounted for "allopathic-osteopathic" shortcomings.
Mark Probert - 21 Mar 2006 18:52 GMT
>> Hi Mark,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> accept the blame, citing thier treatment is only marginal and cannot be
> accounted for "allopathic-osteopathic" shortcomings.

Good point.

How fatal is a glass of H2O?
C A III A - 21 Mar 2006 18:58 GMT
>>> Hi Mark,
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> How fatal is a glass of H2O?

Oh it is essential to live, but not a good idea when drunk too much in the
marathon either. But does not really treat much.
Mark Probert - 21 Mar 2006 19:02 GMT
>>>> Hi Mark,
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Oh it is essential to live, but not a good idea when drunk too much in the
> marathon either. But does not really treat much.

It is the best treatment for Di-hydrogen Monoxide Deficiency Syndrome.
C A III A - 21 Mar 2006 19:25 GMT
>>>>> Hi Mark,
>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> It is the best treatment for Di-hydrogen Monoxide Deficiency Syndrome.

Yeah, that about covers it.
vernon - 21 Mar 2006 19:53 GMT
>>> Hi Mark,
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> How fatal is a glass of H2O?

Boiling or frozen?
Mark Probert - 21 Mar 2006 23:29 GMT
>>>> Hi Mark,
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Boiling or frozen?

Depends on where the glass comes to rest.
Jan Drew - 21 Mar 2006 21:25 GMT
LOL!

Mark thinks *pissing in the wind* is a good point.

>>> Hi Mark,
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> How fatal is a glass of H2O?
Peter Bowditch - 21 Mar 2006 22:46 GMT
>LOL!
>
>Mark thinks *pissing in the wind* is a good point.

Back to uromancy. I see.

>>>> Hi Mark,
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>> How fatal is a glass of H2O?
>
Signature

Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

Jan Drew - 22 Mar 2006 01:38 GMT
More proof of the title.

"Peter Bowditch"

>>LOL!
>>
>>Mark thinks *pissing in the wind* is a good point.

>>>>> Hi Mark,
>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>>>
>>> How fatal is a glass of H2O?
Peter Bowditch - 22 Mar 2006 06:43 GMT
>More proof of the title.

Jan, could you please explain what point you thought you were making
by snipping everything I said but still leaving my name there?

I thought not.

>"Peter Bowditch"
>>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>>>> How fatal is a glass of H2O?
>
Signature

Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

Jan Drew - 22 Mar 2006 07:35 GMT
More proof of the title.

whoooooooooooooossssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhh right over Peter's head.

>>"Peter Bowditch"
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>>>>>
>>>>> How fatal is a glass of H2O?
Mark Probert - 21 Mar 2006 23:30 GMT
> LOL!
>
> Mark thinks *pissing in the wind* is a good point.

Where did I say that?

The only time I did it, though was at Camp Muir. And I aimed down wind.

>>>> Hi Mark,
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>>
>> How fatal is a glass of H2O?
Rich - 21 Mar 2006 23:46 GMT
> LOL!
>
> Mark thinks *pissing in the wind* is a good point.

Jan, do you have any idea what the idiom "pissing in the wind" really means?

It means emitting matter of no consequence into an environment where it may
come back to contaminate you. This is a behavior that you participate in,
but I guess that the analogy doesn't hold up as well for females.
Signature


--Rich

Recommended websites:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/

Jan Drew - 22 Mar 2006 01:42 GMT
Still more proof of the title above.

"Rich"

>> LOL!
>>
>> Mark thinks *pissing in the wind* is a good point.
>
> --Rich
Jan Drew - 21 Mar 2006 21:24 GMT
>> Hi Mark,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> accept the blame, citing thier treatment is only marginal and cannot be
> accounted for "allopathic-osteopathic" shortcomings.

To use Rich Shewmaker's words, you are pissing in the wind.
C A III A - 21 Mar 2006 21:33 GMT
>>> Hi Mark,
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> To use Rich Shewmaker's words, you are pissing in the wind.

I think it's time to use your own.
Rich - 21 Mar 2006 21:54 GMT
>>>> Hi Mark,
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> I think it's time to use your own.

She has none of her own.
Signature


--Rich

Recommended websites:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/

Jan Drew - 21 Mar 2006 22:44 GMT
>>>>> Hi Mark,
>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> She has none of her own.

That would be another lie.
 
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