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Medical Forum / General / General / March 2006Can your body utilize water in the bladder?
Something I've wondered about- if you are, say, lost in the woods and running low on water, should you try to stop from urinating as long as possible? Stated differently, can your body use the water in the urine that is in your bladder or is that water lost to your body once it enters the bladder? Thx, Robert > Something I've wondered about- if you are, say, lost in the woods and > running low on water, should you try to stop from urinating as long as > possible? No. Water in the bladder isn't available to the body. HMc > Something I've wondered about- if you are, say, lost in the woods and > running low on water, should you try to stop from urinating as long as [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Thx, Robert People have been known to drink their own urine. > > Something I've wondered about- if you are, say, lost in the woods and > > running low on water, should you try to stop from urinating as long as [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > People have been known to drink their own urine. Yes--that's true--but it's a stupid thing to do.  SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. >> People have been known to drink their own urine. > Yes--that's true--but it's a stupid thing to do. Why is it a stupid thing to do? HMc > >> People have been known to drink their own urine. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > HMc Just speculation on my part and if Jason had anything in mind then he could expand on that but I guess if the kidney is conserving water then the urine would be concentrated including the sodium. Normal sodium is quite low but obviously increases with vasopressin activity to higher ranges. It would be like drinking seawater. So the decision to drink urine would have to be made early for it to help or delay hypernatremia. If the urine tastes like seawater then it is too salty and increase sodium even more so and one shouldn't drink it or one would go nuts sooner. If it doesn't taste salty early on then it would be fine for awhile. I never really thought about it or know the real answer, only have read of reports of people doing it when lost and lone survivors telling the stories. >> >> People have been known to drink their own urine. >> > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> >> HMc >Just speculation on my part and if Jason had anything in mind then he >could expand on that but I guess if the kidney is conserving water >then the urine would be concentrated including the sodium. Jason's medical expertise could be enumerated on the head of a pin -- using a ballpoint pen. So who knows what he had in mind? -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me." -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth >> >> People have been known to drink their own urine. >> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > reports of people doing it when lost and lone survivors telling the > stories. I can understand why YOU might think it might be a stupid thing to do, but I've seen enough of Jason's posts to be be curious as to why HE thinks it's a stupid thing to do. The differences in reasoning process between you two are likely to be quite different. HMc > >> >> People have been known to drink their own urine. > >> [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > HMc HMc, I believe that drinking your own urine is a stupid thing to do since the kidneys remove any toxic things from your body. If you drink your own urine--it means you are placing those toxic things back in your own body. Of course, I was not discussing situations such as being trapped in a location (such as in a boat or elevation). In those situations, drinking urine would be better than nothing. I read about one young man that drank his own urine so as to save money on vitamens. The doctor (in his newspaper column) told him to stop drinking his urine due to the toxic things that may have been in his urine. Jasnd SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. > Why is it a stupid thing to do? The whole purpose of urination is to remove waste products that the body doesn't need before they build up to toxic levels. Taking those products back into the body just starts a vicious circle that isn't healthy. However, urine could be used in something like a solar still to recover drinkable water (I think). SignatureTranspose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. >The whole purpose of urination is to remove waste products that the >body doesn't need before they build up to toxic levels. Taking those >products back into the body just starts a vicious circle that isn't >healthy. It's still almost all water, and the toxic waste products are in such low concentrations that they're harmless. http://www.britannica.com/eb/table?tocId=9115918 >However, urine could be used in something like a solar still to >recover drinkable water (I think). Of course it can. But if you're in a situation where you need water so badly you would consider distilling it, then why bother? Just drink it. If you've got no other water at all it will eventually become too concentrated to drink, but if you simply have inadequate water then drinking urine is a good way to stretch your supplies significantly. SignatureCarey Gregory > It's still almost all water, and the toxic waste products are in such low > concentrations that they're harmless. They have to be removed, and they are not being removed if you ingest them again. It won't immediately make you sick, but your kidneys will have to work twice as hard to eliminate new accumulated waste products _and_ the waste products you just reingested. > Of course it can. But if you're in a situation where you need water so > badly you would consider distilling it, then why bother? Because then you avoid the toxic parts. If you're in an arid location, using a still could allow you to get more water for a longer period without any risk than you might have if you drank the urine directly. > Just drink it. If > you've got no other water at all it will eventually become too concentrated > to drink, but if you simply have inadequate water then drinking urine is a > good way to stretch your supplies significantly. How much longer can you avoid death by dehydration by drinking your own urine? SignatureTranspose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. >They have to be removed, and they are not being removed if you ingest >them again. It won't immediately make you sick, but your kidneys will >have to work twice as hard to eliminate new accumulated waste products >_and_ the waste products you just reingested. Think survival situation. In that scenario, lack of water is the thing that will kill you first, so concerns about ingesting a few more salts and such are irrelevant. >Because then you avoid the toxic parts. If you're in an arid >location, using a still could allow you to get more water for a longer >period without any risk than you might have if you drank the urine >directly. If you have the luxury of being able to make a still, that would be nice, but you can't count on it from a training perspective. >How much longer can you avoid death by dehydration by drinking your >own urine? Depends on many factors, but it could be several days in some situations, so it's not a trivial advantage you can ignore in an arid survival situation. SignatureCarey Gregory > > Why is it a stupid thing to do? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > However, urine could be used in something like a solar still to > recover drinkable water (I think). You made some great points. Almost any doctor in America would agree that drinking urine is a stupid thing to do. Of course, in some situations such as being in a small boat in the ocean--drining urine would be better than drinking ocean water. Those people that drink their own urine on a daily basis will have all sorts of medical problems. I advise anyone that is drinking their own urine on a daily basis to drink pure water instead. If you don't want to take my advice--ask your doctor for his or her opinions on this subject. SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. >> > Something I've wondered about- if you are, say, lost in the woods and >> > running low on water, should you try to stop from urinating as long as [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Yes--that's true--but it's a stupid thing to do. Depends on the circumstances. A friend who lived in Turkey told me that the civil authorities there recommend it if you're trapped in a collapsed building after an earthquake. Healthy urine is sterile, and drinking your own can't give you a disease you don't already have. It's a good alternative to death by dehydration, anyway. The hiker who amputated his own arm when trapped in a canyon drank his own urine for about six days. As it got more concentrated, he would decant the lighter colored layers on top and discard the crud on the bottom. Interesting book, "Between a Rock and a Hard Place," or something like that. > The hiker who amputated his own arm when trapped in a canyon drank his > own urine for about six days. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Interesting book, "Between a Rock and a Hard Place," or something like > that. That hiker should have drank his own urine--that was a unique situation. I have read stories about people at sea (in a small boat) drinking their own urine. Those are also unique situations. However, I doubt if any normal doctors would advise their patients to drink their own urine. Do you agree? Jason SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. >> The hiker who amputated his own arm when trapped in a canyon drank >> his own urine for about six days. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > their own urine. Do you agree? > Jason Of course no doctor would recommend that you drink your urine, except under the extreme circumstances you all have mentioned (ie, the life or death scenarios). It goes without saying you should not drink your own urine, unless it was a matter of life or death...Pete >>> The hiker who amputated his own arm when trapped in a canyon drank >>> his own urine for about six days. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >scenarios). It goes without saying you should not drink your own urine, >unless it was a matter of life or death...Pete It may go without saying, but there are many people who do follow this practice. They claim it *benefits* their health. Do I believe it? No, but they sure do. -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me." -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth > It may go without saying, but there are many people who do follow this > practice. They claim it *benefits* their health. Do I believe it? > No, but they sure do. Many people are attracted to ideas that seem intuitively stupid, as they like to believe that there is some magic principle to them. Homeopathy works this way. SignatureTranspose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. >> People have been known to drink their own urine. > >Yes--that's true--but it's a stupid thing to do. Take a wilderness survival course and tell the instructor that. Let me know when he quits laughing at you. Urine from a healthy person is sterile, warm, nearly isotonic, and perfectly safe to drink. Those same qualities make it excellent for irrigating wounds, cooling burns, etc. SignatureCarey Gregory > >> People have been known to drink their own urine. > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > safe to drink. Those same qualities make it excellent for irrigating > wounds, cooling burns, etc. I advise you to ask the wilderness survival course instuctor whether or not he or she adises all the students to drink their own urine on a daily basis even when they have several canteeens filled with pure water. It's my guess that the instructor will tell you that those students should drink pure water (instead of urine). The instuctor probably tells the students to only drink urine if they have no water. Jason SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. > I advise you to ask the wilderness survival course instuctor whether or > not he or she adises all the students to drink their own urine on a daily > basis even when they have several canteeens filled with pure water. It's > my guess that the instructor will tell you that those students should > drink pure water (instead of urine). The instuctor probably tells the > students to only drink urine if they have no water. Wilderness survival instructors are likely to be a bit like physical education teachers--half-correct, half misled by urban legends (like the coaches I recall who insisted that nobody _drink_ water in extremely hot weather, but that they just swish it around in the mouth and spit it out ... a sure path to dangerous dehydration). SignatureTranspose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. >Wilderness survival instructors are likely to be a bit like physical >education teachers--half-correct, half misled by urban legends (like >the coaches I recall who insisted that nobody _drink_ water in >extremely hot weather, but that they just swish it around in the mouth >and spit it out ... a sure path to dangerous dehydration). You base that absurd statement on what? Wilderness survival courses aren't high school PE or based on some coach's opinions. You might want to look into it a bit more before saying stupid sh.t like that. SignatureCarey Gregory > You base that absurd statement on what? On what people sometimes tell me about what they've learned on such courses. > Wilderness survival courses aren't high school PE or based > on some coach's opinions. It depends on who is giving the course. SignatureTranspose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. >> You base that absurd statement on what? > >On what people sometimes tell me about what they've learned on such >courses. Tell them to take a real one at a reputable institution from a real instructor. Considering that such courses are pretty expensive and lengthy, not many people whose jobs don't require it actually take them. A two-hour seminar at the YMCA doesn't count. >> Wilderness survival courses aren't high school PE or based >> on some coach's opinions. > >It depends on who is giving the course. Of course it does. >I advise you to ask the wilderness survival course instuctor whether or >not he or she adises all the students to drink their own urine on a daily >basis even when they have several canteeens filled with pure water. It's >my guess that the instructor will tell you that those students should >drink pure water (instead of urine). The instuctor probably tells the >students to only drink urine if they have no water. Well, duh. Of course you don't drink urine if you have a supply of fresh water. SignatureCarey Gregory > >I advise you to ask the wilderness survival course instuctor whether or > >not he or she adises all the students to drink their own urine on a daily [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Well, duh. Of course you don't drink urine if you have a supply of fresh > water. I agree. However, some of the people in this thread appear to believe that drinking urine on a daily basis is a good thing to do. I hope that I misunderstoodthem because I know that drinking urine on a daily basis is a bad thing to do. However, drinking urine in a effort to save your life is a wise thing to do. That's the reason that wilderness survival course instuctors mention that option to their students. However, I also hope they explain to the students that it's important to take several canteens of water with them before they go into the wilderness. They should also provide them with the chemicals, filters and kits needed to purify water from streams and creeks. jason SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. >> Well, duh. Of course you don't drink urine if you have a supply of fresh >> water. > >I agree. However, some of the people in this thread appear to believe that >drinking urine on a daily basis is a good thing to do. I guess I missed those posts. A few people have mentioned that there are people who advocate drinking urine routinely, but no one in this thread has advocated it. >However, drinking urine in a effort to save your life is >a wise thing to do. That's the reason that wilderness survival course [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >provide them with the chemicals, filters and kits needed to purify water >from streams and creeks. Ya think? No, I'm sure they all say why bother bringing enough water when you can just drink piss. It was a simple point, folks. In a pinch, urine is mostly water and it's safe to drink. If you're in danger of dying of dehydration, you shouldn't be pissing out the only water you've got on the ground. Or if you've got a dirty wound and there's no clean water available, urine is a pretty darn good irrigant. But no one here is advocating the routine ingestion of urine. > >> People have been known to drink their own urine. > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > safe to drink. Those same qualities make it excellent for irrigating > wounds, cooling burns, etc. Straight ammonia is better, but IMO urine is good in a pinch for bee stings & other bug bites too. > >> People have been known to drink their own urine. > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Urine from a healthy person is sterile, The urine is sterile but the urethra on down is not and therefore the urine obtained via micuration is technically not sterile. Cath specimens are more appropriately "sterile". Clean catch urines implies a medstream specimen to get rid of urethral contamination via cleaning of external meatus before micuration. Many squamous epithelial cells with bacteria is frequently a sign of contaminaiton and not cystitis bladder infection. warm, nearly isotonic, Isotonic in a normal person but certainly hypertonic in the range of 1000 mOsm/Kg of water compared to serum in the 290 range in dehydration. The sodium content may flucuate as aldosterone and vasopressin also increase. and perfectly > safe to drink. what ever you find to catch it in won't be sterile for sure. Safe as long as it's not salty. Nornal urine sodium is in the 20 meq/l range and blood has a 145 range. Physiological saline, seawater in that range also as humans were evolved from the sea. Total volume intake of seawater can cause you to go nuts but don't really know if it is in play with limited urine output as the total sodium load would be constant although increasing with a contracted volume. Those same qualities make it excellent for irrigating > wounds, cooling burns, etc. Only when anything else within reason isn't available. Urea splitting bacteria would eat it up. >"Carey Gregory" <tiredofspam123@comcast.net> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >obtained via micuration is technically not sterile. Cath specimens are more >appropriately "sterile". In the middle of nowhere it's as sterile as it gets. It may not suffice for a lab, but it sure beats water out of a canteen or some mud puddle. >Isotonic in a normal person but certainly hypertonic in the range of 1000 >mOsm/Kg of water compared to serum in the 290 range in dehydration. The >sodium content may flucuate as aldosterone and vasopressin also increase. See above. Lab criteria vs. middle of nowhere with no other options. >what ever you find to catch it in won't be sterile for sure. You don't catch it for that purpose. You piss right on the wound. Warm, *nearly* sterile, and *nearly* isotonic. Try finding something else like that in the middle of a desert, ocean, etc. > Those same qualities make it excellent for irrigating >> wounds, cooling burns, etc. > >Only when anything else within reason isn't available. Urea splitting >bacteria would eat it up. "Only when anything else isn't available" is the whole point. I'm not suggesting urine for use in any other circumstance. SignatureCarey Gregory |
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