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Medical Forum / General / General / January 2006Can drinking excess water effect?
Hello, Some people drink lot of water whereas other lesser. Drinking lot of water may result excreting lot of urine. Many bio-chemicals may be excreted and lost in urine and those may be in excess to renal threshold and absorption limits. Loosing lot of sugar, probably may trigger body to maintain compensatory energy stores may be as fats. Can you tell me the effects of drinking excess or less water on body's bio-chemistry? Can drinking excess water be harmful to body? What should be natural intake of water to us? Best wishes. > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > threshold and absorption limits. Loosing lot of sugar, probably may > trigger body to maintain compensatory energy stores may be as fats. No. Doesn't work that way. > Can you tell me the effects of drinking excess or less water on body's > bio-chemistry? Can drinking excess water be harmful to body? If taken in high enough quantities, water intoxication can occur, but that is rare and hard to achieve. When inhaled, water is almost always fatal. > What should be natural intake of water to us? Enough to satisfy thirst.  Signature"Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner." - Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather "The truth is, too much water and not enough salt can kill you. Most people know that dehydration can cause serious health consequences. What most don't realize is that too much of a good thing - WATER - can also be dangerous, even deadly. They call it WATER INTOXICATION or more technically HYPONATREMIA. It happens when the body's balance of salt and water become quickly diluted. It affects the production of nerve impulses, and impairs mental processes. Cells take on extra water and expand. As they swell, they put stress on the body's organs, particularly the brain, which has little room to expand within the skull. Sometimes Hyponatremia is caused by an underlying medical condition. " http://www.alpharubicon.com/med/watertox.html The above link tells about water intoxication--Hyponatremia. It can cause many problems esp. increase in cell volume. I think it may effect other minerals related to or dependent on Sodium level--K, Ca, Mg, P . Low sodium may be related to acid/base water level. But I am esp. looking for its effect on fats storage. What excess water intake will cause to glucose and fats levels? Can water intoxication cause edema due to increase in cell volume or decreased filteration in kidneys due this this cell volume increase? Whether excess urine excretion increases or lowers the glucose level in healthy or diabetic person? > > Hello, > > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > "Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner." > - Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather > The above link tells about water intoxication--Hyponatremia. It can > cause many problems esp. increase in cell volume. I think it may effect [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > this this cell volume increase? Whether excess urine excretion > increases or lowers the glucose level in healthy or diabetic person? Are you asking about chronic or acute hyponatremia? Signature"Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner." - Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather > "The truth is, too much water and not enough salt can kill you. Most > people know that dehydration can cause serious health consequences. > What most don't realize is that too much of a good thing - WATER > - can also be dangerous, even deadly. Too much of anything can kill you. > They call it WATER INTOXICATION or more technically HYPONATREMIA. It's really, REALLY hard to produce hyponatremia in a healthy individual who is not under any physiological stress. You'd get sick of drinking water long before the hyponatremia develops. People with psychogenic polydipsia (usually associated with psychosis) occasionally manage to drink enough water to become intoxicated, but this means gallons, not a few extra glasses of water. Normal people never have to worry about hyponatremia. There are situations in which people who have exerted themselves for a very long time in hot weather suddenly decide to drink a great deal of water to satisfy thirst after several hours, and occasionally they develop hyponatremia. This happens because they've lost electrolytes and they take on hypotonic (non-salty) water faster than their kidneys can restore balance, so sodium levels drop too low (hyponatremia). Even this is very rare, though. Salt is a bit of a different story. It's never a good idea to consume a large amount of salt; in fact, a few tablespoons can be fatal to an adult if consumed all at once. Fortunately, that doesn't normally happen accidentally. Here again, the kidneys can deal with a very wide range of salt intakes, but very sudden salt loads may be enough to cause a problem (hypernatremia, in this case). I'm not sure why anyone would be gulping salt, though. > The above link tells about water intoxication--Hyponatremia. It can > cause many problems esp. increase in cell volume. I think it may effect > other minerals related to or dependent on Sodium level--K, Ca, Mg, P . > Low sodium may be related to acid/base water level. But I am esp. > looking for its effect on fats storage. What excess water intake will > cause to glucose and fats levels? Water intoxication and (often) hyponatremia are medical emergencies, and one doesn't worry about their long-term effects, but instead about resolving the immediate imbalance. > Can water intoxication cause edema due to increase in cell volum > or decreased filteration in kidneys due this this cell volume increase? If you mean long-term edema, see above. > Whether excess urine excretion increases or lowers the glucose level > in healthy or diabetic person? If the blood glucose level is normal, the kidneys do not excrete any significant amount of glucose, irrespective of the total volume of urine produced. In a person with hyperglycemia (such as an uncontrolled diabetic), the kidneys may dump glucose if it passes a certain (high) level. Mild hyperglycemia may not produce any glucosuria. Diseased kidneys may dump all sorts of stuff that they should retain, including glucose. Some people have low renal thresholds for glucose and dump it into urine at much lower blood glucose levels than a normal person would. SignatureTranspose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Best wishes. Hello, I am not a doctor. There is a doctor that writes a colomn in the local newspaper and he recently stated that people should drink 8 glasses of water throughout the day--not all at one time. Of course, if you have some sort of medical problem such as kidney problems, discuss the amount of water you should drink each day with your doctor. Jason SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. >Hello, >I am not a doctor. There is a doctor that writes a colomn in the local >newspaper and he recently stated that people should drink 8 glasses of >water throughout the day--not all at one time. Not sure what the doc's context there was. Certainly it is good to spread out your water consumption. (Hard to imagine that anyone would do otherwise.) But I think there is a general consensus now that there is no need for 8 glasses of water a day (and many would consider that quite excessive; of course water taken in drinks and food counts as part of your water intake, but some seem to think you should drink 8 glasses of plain water on top of that). Do some reading in the medical literature, and reach your own conclusion. Someone has already posted that the proper amount of water to drink is the amount that feels right for you. bob What can we loose with excess urine excreted due to excess intake of water? Do we consider total loss of any biochemical per day in urine instead of per sample? Do we consider total body's biochemicals levels instead of blood level? How can we evauluate, whether urinary losses are not causing exceses or deficiencies on total body's level? Anyway, can excess urination due to excess intake cause loss of any bio-chemical which may trigger excess fat deposition in cell membranes or in cells? Can excess water intake cause cell structure or cellular membrane to change in structure to discourage more water to enter in cells due to changed tonicity of EC fluids? > >Hello, > >I am not a doctor. There is a doctor that writes a colomn in the local [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > bob > What can we loose with excess urine excreted due to excess intake of > water? Do we consider total loss of any biochemical per day in urine > instead of per sample? Do we consider total body's biochemicals levels > instead of blood level? How can we evauluate, whether urinary losses > are not causing exceses or deficiencies on total body's level? If urination is causing an imbalance, you find out about it real quick, since the production of urine is considerable. > Anyway, can excess urination due to excess intake cause loss of any > bio-chemical which may trigger excess fat deposition in cell membranes > or in cells? Not in healthy people. > Can excess water intake cause cell structure or cellular > membrane to change in structure to discourage more water to enter in > cells due to changed tonicity of EC fluids? Not with any normal definition of "excess intake." Kidneys are remarkable devices. They can successfully keep all sorts of things in perfect balance over an amazingly wide range of water intakes. SignatureTranspose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. > How can we evauluate, whether urinary losses >are not causing exceses or deficiencies on total body's level? Collect the stuff and measure it. >Anyway, can excess urination due to excess intake cause loss of any >bio-chemical which may trigger excess fat deposition in cell membranes >or in cells? Can excess water intake cause cell structure or cellular >membrane to change in structure to discourage more water to enter in >cells due to changed tonicity of EC fluids? no bob > I am not a doctor. There is a doctor that writes a colomn in the local > newspaper and he recently stated that people should drink 8 glasses of > water throughout the day--not all at one time. This used to be the 'rule of thumb;' it has been disproved. The correct amount of water to drink is enough to satisfy thirst. > Of course, if you have some > sort of medical problem such as kidney problems, discuss the amount of > water you should drink each day with your doctor. While it is always a good idea to discuss things with a doctor, the idea of limiting water intake for "kidney problems" is goofy. Kidney stones are a "kidney problem" and increasing fluid intake can help decrease incidence of certain stones. Even those with early-stage kidney failure are not necessarily on fluid limits; those are usually reserved for those receiving hemodialysis. Signature"Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner." - Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather Drinking excess water may effect tonicity of blood or ECF. It can effect more water to enter into cells resulting cell swelling. Persistent cells swellng may be harmful. Under this condition, can't it trigger changes in the structure of cell membranes or fat depositions into cells to discouage excess water to enter into cells? Furthur, what we loose with the excretion of more urine on 24rs basis? Will homeostatis of excreted bio-chemicals be still maintained on total body level(not just blood level) if one drink excess water and pass more urine alongwith many bio-chemicals? > Drinking excess water may effect tonicity of blood or ECF. Only if one drinks tens of litres per day, or more. Essentially one must exceed the ability of the kidneys to remove water, and that isn't easy if the kidneys are healthy; they can remove litres per hour if they have to. > Persistent cells swellng may be harmful. Under this condition, can't it > trigger changes in the structure of cell membranes or fat depositions > into cells to discouage excess water to enter into cells? Let's look at this a different way: What is the as-yet-unspoken conclusion that you are trying to support? That drinking too much or too little water makes people fat, perhaps? > Furthur, what we loose with the excretion of more urine on 24rs basis? > Will homeostatis of excreted bio-chemicals be still maintained on total > body level(not just blood level) if one drink excess water and pass > more urine alongwith many bio-chemicals? Yes. Kidneys know what to excrete and what not to excrete, and when they are healthy they do this with amazing reliability and precision, no matter how much or how little water you drink. SignatureTranspose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. Mxsmanic thanks. Do you mean that excess intake of water neither causes any bio-chemical imbalances(at blood level and at total body/ECF/ICF level) not structural changes(cell's swelling etc.) of cells in healthy people? Can we notice some physical or physiological differences between people who are excess and lesser water drinker? Can you tell me, how abnormal fat depositions or changes in cellular membranes(some what lipoprotien related) can happen > > Drinking excess water may effect tonicity of blood or ECF. > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > they are healthy they do this with amazing reliability and precision, > no matter how much or how little water you drink. > Mxsmanic thanks. Do you mean that excess intake of water neither causes > any bio-chemical imbalances(at blood level and at total body/ECF/ICF > level) not structural changes(cell's swelling etc.) of cells in healthy > people? Yes. > Can we notice some physical or physiological differences between people > who are excess and lesser water drinker? Those who drink excess water will produce more urine. People who regularly drink water in excess of physiological needs may experience somewhat more thirst in time as they become accustomed to drinking more water, but this goes away if they stop drinking excess water. > Can you tell me, how abnormal fat depositions or changes in cellular > membranes(some what lipoprotien related) can happen These changes are uncorrelated with water intake. SignatureTranspose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. Irregardless of how you loose it, suposably it won't effect you. "I am not a Doctor" No sh.t..Sherlock...barely literate but then I don't want to discouge y'all alongwith 24rs. > Drinking excess water may effect tonicity of blood or ECF. It can > effect more water to enter into cells resulting cell swelling. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > body level(not just blood level) if one drink excess water and pass > more urine alongwith many bio-chemicals? Drinking excess water may effect tonicity of blood or ECF. It can effect more water to enter into cells resulting cell swelling. Persistent cells swellng may be harmful. Under this condition, can't it trigger changes in the structure of cell membranes or fat depositions into cells to discouage excess water to enter into cells? Furthur, what we loose with the excretion of more urine on 24rs basis? Will homeostatis of excreted bio-chemicals be still maintained on total body level(not just blood level) if one drink excess water and pass more urine alongwith many bio-chemicals? > > I am not a doctor. There is a doctor that writes a colomn in the local > > newspaper and he recently stated that people should drink 8 glasses of [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > "Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner." > - Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather > Drinking excess water may effect tonicity of blood or ECF. It can > effect more water to enter into cells resulting cell swelling. You keep saying this but it's not necessarily true. If you drink too much plain water and get into hyponatremia your stomach stops absorbing and you bloat like a big pig. It's not like water over damn and just more fluid going through the system. You system stops or severely slows. > Furthur, what we loose with the excretion of more urine on 24rs basis? > Will homeostatis of excreted bio-chemicals be still maintained on > total > body level(not just blood level) if one drink excess water and pass > more urine alongwith many bio-chemicals? Asked and answered - hyponatremia . -DF >> Drinking excess water may effect tonicity of blood or ECF. It can >> effect more water to enter into cells resulting cell swelling. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Asked and answered - hyponatremia . > -DF The hyponatremia is on the basis of dilution, not sodium loss. There are some obligatory potassium losses, however, and increased urine flow can result in decreased serum potassium. Serum osmolality could change enough for red cell damage to occur, but this would be extremely rare. So, excess water intake can result in hemodilution with an observable decrease in hemoglobin concentration and a decrease in serum sodium concentration levels, a relative hyponatremia. The increased urine flow will result in increased potassium losses with the potential for an absolute hypokalemia. HMc > The hyponatremia is on the basis of dilution, not sodium loss. In the case of exercise, you can be losing salt through sweat AND pumping too much water in the intake valve, so it's very reasonable for both to happen. -DF DF thanks. Good information. All these suggest hemodilution, loosing electrolytes esp. Na and K, changes in RBCs etc. What can be the results on loosing these and of hemodilution in long term by taking excess water persitently as habit? What about effect of taking excess water and excreting more urine on Acid/base status of body? > DF thanks. Good information. All these suggest hemodilution, loosing > electrolytes esp. Na and K, changes in RBCs etc. What can be the > results on loosing these and of hemodilution in long term by taking > excess water persitently as habit? None. > What about effect of taking excess > water and excreting more urine on Acid/base status of body? None. SignatureTranspose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. DF thanks. All these suggest hemodilution, loosing electrolytes esp. Na and K, changes in RBCs etc. What can be the results on loosing these and of hemodilution in long term by taking excess water persitently as habit? What about effect of taking excess water and excreting more urine on Acid/base status of body? DF thanks. All these suggest hemodilution, loosing electrolytes esp. Na and K, changes in RBCs etc. What can be the results on loosing these and of hemodilution in long term by taking excess water persitently as habit? What about effect of taking excess water and excreting more urine on Acid/base status of body? DF Thanks. All these losses can be very much important for causing many imbalances. What about effect of excess urine excretionon acid/base status of body? > >> Drinking excess water may effect tonicity of blood or ECF. It can > >> effect more water to enter into cells resulting cell swelling. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > HMc > DF Thanks. All these losses can be very much important for causing > many > imbalances. What about effect of excess urine excretion on acid/base > status of body? Sorry Kumar can't help about PH balance. As an endurance athlete I'm much more on top of excess water and hynonatremia. Many people think that sport drinks are the answer, when in effect are very poor/low in sodium. Add heat and potential for trouble is geometric. Extra salt is a necessity. -DF Anyway, can we check this concept with animals and water which are less and more water dependant? Are more dependant on water are bit delicate/softer and less water dependant comparatively hardy? > > DF Thanks. All these losses can be very much important for causing > > many [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > necessity. > -DF > Sorry Kumar can't help about PH balance. As an endurance athlete I'm > much more on top of excess water and hynonatremia. Many people think > that sport drinks are the answer, when in effect are very poor/low in > sodium. Add heat and potential for trouble is geometric. Extra salt is a > necessity. Ideally, people should drink something that is isotonic with what they lose. Unfortunately, it's awkward to measure the tonicity of sweat and urine on the fly, and both are quite variable. Just gulping salt tablets or something isn't necessarily a good idea. SignatureTranspose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. >> Sorry Kumar can't help about PH balance. As an endurance athlete I'm >> much more on top of excess water and hynonatremia. Many people think [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Just gulping salt tablets or something isn't necessarily a good idea. You are correct that one should not just throw in extra sodium. Over 15 years of endurance athletics I understand how much salt I sweat over time and know how much to supplement and under what conditions. There are variuos ways to measure sweat loss and usually done during training. You can weight youself before and after. You can monitor your urine color and frequency. FWIW, one of the biggest mistakes that rookie marathoners are making is overhydrating on simple water the day before the race. They are correct in that they should be well hydrated. Unfortunately they drink only water and basically go into the race with low/watered sodium. They then run and take in some more water or even Gatorbarf. You will hear people remark I don't undertand why I felt like sh.t, I was drinking a ton of fluid. They will also tell you their stomachs were bloated because absorption was severely slowed. Just like pinching the gas line on your car. -DF > You are correct that one should not just throw in extra sodium. Over 15 > years of endurance athletics I understand how much salt I sweat over > time and know how much to supplement and under what conditions. There > are variuos ways to measure sweat loss and usually done during training. > You can weight youself before and after. You can monitor your urine > color and frequency. But you also need to know how much salt you're losing in sweat--it's not a constant amount. How do you measure it? I know that people who are unaccustomed to perspiring tend to lose more salt when sweating profusely than are people who perspire heavily on a regular basis. In very hot weather I perspire enough (litres) to leave salt deposits on clothing, so I obviously lose salt, but compared to the amount of water I lose, the salt loss is small. SignatureTranspose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. Do we loose only NaCl salt via sweat or some other minerals also? I think it is KCl, iron also. > > You are correct that one should not just throw in extra sodium. Over 15 > > years of endurance athletics I understand how much salt I sweat over [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > on clothing, so I obviously lose salt, but compared to the amount of > water I lose, the salt loss is small. > Do we loose only NaCl salt via sweat or some other minerals also? I > think it is KCl, iron also. Primarily NaCl, because we have so much of it. A large loss of electrolytes through perspiration is usually pathological, although people who sweat profusely without having done so in the recent past may at first lose a lot of salt and electrolytes in their perspiration until they become acclimated. I don't believe iron is lost in sweat (normally). SignatureTranspose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. HMc thanks. Good post. All these suggest hemodilution, loosing electrolytes esp. Na and K, changes in RBCs etc. What can be the results on loosing these and of hemodilution in long term by taking excess water persitently as habit? What about effect of taking excess water and excreting more urine on Acid/base status of body? > >> Drinking excess water may effect tonicity of blood or ECF. It can > >> effect more water to enter into cells resulting cell swelling. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > HMc DF thanks. Good information. All these suggest hemodilution, loosing electrolytes esp. Na and K, changes in RBCs etc. What can be the results on loosing these and of hemodilution in long term by taking excess water persitently as habit? What about effect of taking excess water and excreting more urine on Acid/base status of body? > >> Drinking excess water may effect tonicity of blood or ECF. It can > >> effect more water to enter into cells resulting cell swelling. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > HMc DF thanks. Good information. All these suggest hemodilution, loosing electrolytes esp. Na and K, changes in RBCs etc. What can be the results on loosing these and of hemodilution in long term by taking excess water persitently as habit? What about effect of taking excess water and excreting more urine on Acid/base status of body? > >> Drinking excess water may effect tonicity of blood or ECF. It can > >> effect more water to enter into cells resulting cell swelling. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > HMc > I am not a doctor. There is a doctor that writes a colomn in the local > newspaper and he recently stated that people should drink 8 glasses of > water throughout the day--not all at one time. He's repeating a well-established urban legend. There is no particular requirement to drink eight glasses of water a day. If you aren't losing water through heavy perspiration, vomiting, etc., one litre a day is usually sufficient. Of course, you can drink more if you want, but your kidneys don't need much to keep things running. And indeed, people who drink only when thirsty may drink scarcely more than a litre per day for years, and they remain in fine health. SignatureTranspose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. More water can increase health if flushing the body of substances like excess fat or toxins. It isn't the liquid that performs the feat, it only assists the process. > > I am not a doctor. There is a doctor that writes a colomn in the local > > newspaper and he recently stated that people should drink 8 glasses of [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > scarcely more than a litre per day for years, and they remain in fine > health. > More water can increase health if flushing the body of > substances like excess fat or toxins. It isn't the > liquid that performs the feat, it only assists the > process. This is popular mythology. Your kidneys need only a minimal amount of water to flush all the "toxins" from your body--about a litre a day if you aren't losing water in other ways. Water does not "flush fat" from the body under any circumstances. SignatureTranspose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. Exactly. Just as I stated. Learn to read now > > More water can increase health if flushing the body of > > substances like excess fat or toxins. It isn't the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > you aren't losing water in other ways. Water does not "flush fat" > from the body under any circumstances. > Exactly. Just as I stated. You indicated that more water flushes "excess fat" from the body, and this is not true. SignatureTranspose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. Learn to read. As I told you before, I never said that Show me where I said that, not what you imagined. > > Exactly. Just as I stated. > > You indicated that more water flushes "excess fat" from the body, and > this is not true. > Learn to read. As I told you before, I never said that > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > from the body, and >> this is not true. Here ya go... "Pizzza Girl" <PiG@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:43c06a07$0$3040$6d36acad@roc.nntpserver.com... > More water can increase health if flushing the body of > substances like excess fat or toxins. It isn't the > liquid that performs the feat, it only assists the > process. HMc Huh? And where do you see me saying water flushes fat? >> "Pizzza Girl" <PiG@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:43c06a07$0$3040$6d36acad@roc.nntpserver.com... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > HMc That's what I thought. You are imagining things again. Take the f.cking medication. > Huh? And where do you see me saying water flushes fat? > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > > > HMc > More water can increase health if flushing the body of > substances like excess fat or toxins. It isn't the > liquid that performs the feat, it only assists the > process. You have to take in enough water to cover the body's obligatory water losses. Surprise, that works out to about 8 glasses of water per day. Water intake beyond that does not "increase health" and does not "flush fats or toxins" from the body. It just makes you urinate more urine with a lower osmolality. HMc > You have to take in enough water to cover the body's obligatory water > losses. Surprise, that works out to about 8 glasses of water per day. No, it doesn't. For a person who isn't perspiring heavily, a litre or so is sufficient to replace losses. The old saw about eight glasses a day is mythology. A very large segment of the population lives to a ripe old age in good health drinking considerably less than that each day. SignatureTranspose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. There ripe old age would have only been a begining if they would have drank more water. > > You have to take in enough water to cover the body's obligatory water > > losses. Surprise, that works out to about 8 glasses of water per day. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > ripe old age in good health drinking considerably less than that each > day. > There ripe old age would have only been a begining if > they would have drank more water. Show cause and effect. The vast majority of people drink considerably less than eight glasses of water a day (which is around three litres), and many of them live to very old age. I'm aware of no research that shows even a correlation between the amount of water consumed and life expectancy, much less a cause-and-effect relationship. SignatureTranspose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. I know you have no research to substantiate any of your blathering. Why are your trolling the group, knowingly, with unproven, unsubstantiated crap and arguing it is true? > I'm aware of no research that shows even a > correlation between the amount of water consumed and life expectancy, > much less a cause-and-effect relationship. DF thanks. Good information. All these suggest hemodilution, loosing electrolytes esp. Na and K, changes in RBCs etc. What can be the results on loosing these and of hemodilution in long term by taking excess water persitently as habit? What about effect of taking excess water and excreting more urine on Acid/base status of body? DF thanks. Good information. All these suggest hemodilution, loosing electrolytes esp. Na and K, changes in RBCs etc. What can be the results on loosing these and of hemodilution in long term by taking excess water persitently as habit? What about effect of taking excess water and excreting more urine on Acid/base status of body? > DF thanks. Good information. All these suggest hemodilution, loosing > electrolytes esp. Na and K, changes in RBCs etc. What can be the > results on loosing these and of hemodilution in long term by taking > excess water persitently as habit? What about effect of taking excess > water and excreting more urine on Acid/base status of body? If you are worried about losing eletrolytes as a result of drinking water, go to a health food store and buy a bottle of Mineral capsules. Take one of the capsules after each meal and you should never have to worry about it unless you have some sort of medical problem. If you have medical problem, ask your doctor for advice. Also, do a google search for "pH". Order some pH test strips if you choose to do so. They sell the test strips at some drug stores. The book "The Acid Alkaline Diet" by Christopher Vasey, N.D. explains how to use the test strips to test your pH level. NOW Foods sells "Full Spectrum Minerals Caps" NutriBiotic sells "Essential Electrolytes" SignatureNEWSGROUP SUBSCRIBERS MOTTO We respect those subscribers that ask for advice or provide advice. We do NOT respect the subscribers that enjoy criticizing people. > There is a doctor that writes a colomn in the local > newspaper and he recently stated that people should drink 8 glasses of > water throughout the day--not all at one time. And that can be completely useless info, from which a person can die. Who are these idiots who talk of 8 glasses without defining how much is in a glass??? Nor do they mention adult or child/thin or fat/active or sedentary. My basic rule of thumb is that you are drinking enough if you go to the toilet/bathroom say 4-6 times a day, and your urine is pale yellow (except of course after you've just woken up, when it will be darker naturally). >> There is a doctor that writes a colomn in the local >> newspaper and he recently stated that people should drink 8 glasses of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > toilet/bathroom say 4-6 times a day, and your urine is pale yellow (except > of course after you've just woken up, when it will be darker naturally). 4 oz to a "glass" (cup) = 32 oz per day = 1 quart per day the generally accepted amount of fluid intake from all sources in a 24 hour period for a human at rest in normal temperatures. More than that won't hurt, less than that *might* not be a problem. HMc Always stated as 10 oz glasses. > <donot@reply.con> wrote in message news:Kyewf.22776$iz3.17480@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk... > > "Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:jason-0601060827210001@pm1-broad-90.snlo.dialup.fix.net... > >> There is a doctor that writes a colomn in the local > >> newspaper and he recently stated that people should drink 8 glasses of [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > HMc >>> There is a doctor that writes a colomn in the local >>> newspaper and he recently stated that people should drink 8 glasses of [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >4 oz to a "glass" (cup) But a cup is 8 oz. Go check a measuring cup in the kitchen (and it may be in the dictionary entry for cup). Common (?) drinking glasses are a big larger; someone suggested 10 oz (if full). So 8 glasses = 8 * 8 oz = 2 quarts. Do you agree that the need for water is fulfilled by all types of water, not just "drinking water"? (ie, other drinks, and water in food.) Apparently, some of the 8-glasses fanatics think those other things do not count. bob >= 32 oz per day = 1 quart per day the generally >accepted amount of fluid intake from all sources in a 24 hour period for a >human at rest in normal temperatures. More than that won't hurt, less than >that *might* not be a problem. > >HMc > Do you agree that the need for water is fulfilled by all types of > water, not just "drinking water"? (ie, other drinks, and water in > food.) Apparently, some of the 8-glasses fanatics think those other > things do not count. Any type of water will do. People do get a substantial amount of water from food, as most foods are high in moisture content, and just because it isn't taken from a drinking glass doesn't mean that it doesn't count as water. Drinks that contain water count, too. Even drinks that contain mild diuretics such as caffeine still count, since they introduce water into the body much faster than it will lose it due to any diuretic effect of the caffeine. And as long as you aren't perspiring heavily, vomiting, or suffering from diarrhea, you can get by with about a litre a day. SignatureTranspose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. 1 cup = 10 ounces unless you are an illiterate yank. 2 cups = 1 pint 2 pints = 1 quart 4 quarts = 1 gallon 1 gallon = 160 ounces, unless you are an illiterate Yank > ><donot@reply.con> wrote in message > >news:Kyewf.22776$iz3.17480@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk... > >> "Jason" <jason@nospam.com> wrote in message news:jason-0601060827210001@pm1-broad-90.snlo.dialup.fix.net... > >>> There is a doctor that writes a colomn in the local > >>> newspaper and he recently stated that people should drink 8 glasses of [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > > >HMc > 1 cup = 10 ounces That would be imperial measure, used only on island nations of few people and a holdover of once-great times, now falling into disuse because of the enthusiastic adoption of metric measure. A real cup is 8 ounces, where the ounces themselves are of a different, smaller, more manageable size. > 2 cups = 1 pint The old saying "a pint's a pound the world around" doesn't work with the imperial pint. That one weighs something over 20 avoirdupois ounces - rather than the 16 ounces a correct pound weighs - and must, therefore, be an incorrect one. > 2 pints = 1 quart > 4 quarts = 1 gallon > 1 gallon = 160 ounces, unless you are an illiterate Yank Actually, a non-imperial, correct gallon is 168 fluid ounces. HTH Pastorio > "Bob" <bbx107@excite.XXXX.com> wrote > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >>>> yellow (except of course after you've just woken up, when it >>>> will be darker naturally). >>> 4 oz to a "glass" (cup) >> But a cup is 8 oz. Go check a measuring cup in the kitchen (and it >> may be in the dictionary entry for cup). Common (?) drinking [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >>> >>> HMc LOLOLOL. You moron. If you are going to toot the American, we were mixed-up, system of measure at least get it right, for f.ck sakes. A US gallon has 128 ounces and that is U.S. onces. Nobody in the rest of the world every used them. 4.1666% larger than the Imperial ounce used by the rest of the world. Most of the US could not read or write at one point in history and they couldn't read what a real ounce or gallon was. So an Imperial gallon has 160 ounces and a US gallon has 128 ounces and yet they are a 6/5 ratio. Can you do the math or are you American typical? BTW: The US still has a higher illiteracy rate than Mexico. BTW2: That little island has more people than your US imagination does but then that little island doesn't kill all there boys with wars, cars and industrial pollution. (from my kindergarten memories) In the US 1 cup = 8 ounces (liquid. They have a bunch) 2 cups = 1 pint 2 pints = 1 quart 4 quarts = 1 gallon 2 gallons = 1 peck 4 pecks = 1 bushel > > 1 cup = 10 ounces > [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > >>> > >>> HMc > LOLOLOL. You moron. If you are going to toot the > American, we were mixed-up, system of measure at least > get it right, for f.ck sakes. I mistyped a digit. Caught me. My mistake. A typo. Perhaps like the extra "z" in Pizzza Girl - likely, given the rest of your writing. And I bet everybody believes you're a girl, too. No, seriously... > A US gallon has 128 ounces and that is U.S. onces. Exactly. But see how you spelled ounces "onces?" That's the same kind of mistake as mistyping a digit. A typographic error. See how it works, blowhole...? > Nobody in the rest of the world every used them. Yes, and? Nobody but a few - far fewer than live in the U.S. - ever thought it was a good idea to measure their weigh in "stones." If you want to talk about strange measures, do look at the history of England. And then look at the rest of the world. Wanna buy a koku of rice? You sorry ethnocentrics think that the rest of the world uses the British units and don't have a clue how few use them now or ever did in the past. China and India would blow your tiny mind with all their units. Africa would ruin your sleep. Asia has more units than the vast numbers of brain cells that have already leaked out of your diminished head. > 4.1666% larger than the Imperial ounce used by the rest > of the world. "The rest of the world..." Bwah... You mean the British Empire? Sorry. Not all of them used it, either, and generally only when dealing with the British anyway. But, no matter, really, they're all using various measures from metric to local ones since the sun did set on the empire and the old measures disappeared, at least officially. The Brits still use a merry hodge-podge of units combining the traditional and new-fangled in everyday casual dealing. At least they made their currency intelligible. And I made a mistake about this, too, but you were so besotted with your own effluents that you missed it. I misspoke and said the American ounces were smaller. Details, details... > Most of the US could not read or write at one point in > history and they couldn't read what a real ounce or > gallon was. You say that like it wasn't a universal condition back when. The settlers were British, Boner. They brought their literacy levels and multiplicity of measures with them. And fairly quickly, in the empirical universe of settlement, discarded the ones that weren't useful. Apparently you don't know that different trades used different measures that often employed the same names. Mostly cribbed from the Romans since the Brits had a zillion different, unrelated ones. So miles, ounces, pounds and so forth were picked up. <LOL> But I see you don't know the history of measures from England even a little bit. Do you know how many different gallons there were in England? Apparently not. For airbrains like you, history started last Wednesday. "In England units of measurement were not properly standardised until the 13th century, though variations (and abuses) continued until long after that. For example, there were three different gallons (ale, wine and corn) up until 1824 when the gallon was standardised. "In the U S A the system of weights and measured first adopted was that of the English, though a few differences came in when decisions were made at the time of standardisation in 1836. For instance, the wine-gallon of 231 cubic inches was used instead of the English one (as defined in 1824) of about 277 cubic inches. The U S A also took as their standard of dry measure the old Winchester bushel of 2150.42 cubic inches, which gave a dry gallon of nearly 269 cubic inches." <http://www.ex.ac.uk/cimt/dictunit/dictunit.htm#history> A bit of research into what gallons have been over the centuries might be revelatory, but I have dim hope for you to ever actually learn anything. And don't even look at barrels, that'll just flummox you. Still would because there are still several in daily commerce. > So an Imperial gallon has 160 ounces and a US gallon > has 128 ounces and yet they are a 6/5 ratio. Can you do > the math or are you American typical? <LOL> The ratio is irrelevant to anything since only one of those measures is still official anywhere. Officially, the U.K. doesn't use gallons since everything went metric, remember? Um, except barrels of oil. And barrels of wine. And... The cubic volume of the two gallons is 277 cubic inches for the British or Imperial gallon and 231 cubic inches for the American gallon. And after showing you can still do 3rd grade math, you've accomplished exactly what with it? I mean beyond showing that you possess rudimentary arithmetic skills. I bet you thought it would dazzle everybody, right? > BTW: The US still has a higher illiteracy rate than > Mexico. No. *YOU* have a higher illiteracy rate than Mexico. <LOL> FYI, most literate people would talk about a *literacy* rate instead. And yours is down at the tragic end of the bell curve. <http://www.mrdowling.com/800literacy.html> Bite down hard on this one. > BTW2: That little island has more people than your US > imagination does By the time you got this far, you forgot all that English you aren't too good at anyway, and slipped back to your normal gibberish. But take heart, there are good remedial courses available. Hope springs eternal... > but then that little island doesn't > kill all there boys with wars, cars and industrial > pollution. <LOL> You must be talking about places like Vanuatu or Tahiti. Or maybe you've forgotten your peaceful European history. And tranquil Asian history. And serene African history... <LOL> Bozo. > (from my kindergarten memories) They certainly are kindergarten memories. You're mixing units here - dry volume and liquid volume - and look at the big wet spot in your otherwise dry pants. > In the US > 1 cup = 8 ounces (liquid. They have a bunch) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 2 gallons = 1 peck > 4 pecks = 1 bushel There are dry volumetric measures and wet ones that have the same names (a holdover from our confused British roots) and they aren't the same volumes. You can't have a peck or a bushel of liquid. But do note that Americans picked up British gallons - two of the many - and use them as the standards still effective today. Here, Zippy, see some history: "The situation was still confused during the American colonial period, so the *Americans were actually simplifying things* by selecting just *two of the many possible gallons*. These two were the gallons that had become most common in British commerce by around 1700. For dry commodities, the Americans were familiar with the "Winchester bushel," defined by Parliament in 1696 to be the volume of a cylindrical container 18.5 inches in diameter and 8 inches deep. The corresponding gallon, 1/8 of this bushel, is usually called the "corn gallon" in England. This corn gallon holds 268.8 cubic inches. "For liquids Americans preferred to use the traditional British wine gallon, which Parliament defined to equal exactly 231 cubic inches in 1707. As a result, the U.S. volume system includes both "dry" and "liquid" units, with the dry units being about 1/6 larger than the corresponding liquid units." *emphasis added* <http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/custom.html> See, moron, bushels are used for grain and agricultural products. Up above one line says, "...standard of dry measure the old Winchester bushel..." See how that goes? Come back tomorrow and we'll talk about surface measures. Boy, that'll be fun... There'll be a quiz. Pastorio >>>1 cup = 10 ounces >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >> >>Pastorio [...] > Come back tomorrow and we'll talk about surface measures. Boy, that'll > be fun... There'll be a quiz. Very educational and entertaining post. > [...] > >>Come back tomorrow and we'll talk about surface measures. Boy, that'll >>be fun... There'll be a quiz. > > Very educational and entertaining post. Thank you. I've written about this subject on- and offline on several occasions and I do find it interesting. Historical notes about how we got here from wherever we used to be can be fascinating. Yes, it's a kind of geekiness... <LOL> Pastorio >4 oz to a "glass" (cup) = 32 oz per day = 1 quart per day the generally >accepted amount of fluid intake from all sources in a 24 hour period for a >human at rest in normal temperatures. More than that won't hurt, less than >that *might* not be a problem. MUCH more than can hurt. Lord knows I have seen water intoxication enough over the years. Only during Baptism > MUCH more than can hurt. Lord knows I have seen water intoxication enough > over the years. > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > threshold and absorption limits. Loosing lot of sugar, probably may > trigger body to maintain compensatory energy stores may be as fats. It's the salt that get too watered down and your stomach ceases to absorb fluid. Throw hyponatremia in any search engine. Briefly, "Sodium is the dominant extracellular cation, and its homeostasis is vital to the normal physiologic function of cells. Normal serum sodium is between 135-145 mEq/L. Hyponatremia is defined as a serum level less than 135 mEq/dL and is considered severe when the serum level is below 120 mEq/L" > Can you tell me the effects of drinking excess or less water on body's > bio-chemistry? Can drinking excess water be harmful to body? Renal failure, coma and death as has happened in a few marathon cases. Recent studies of marathon runners shows many finisher are in some state of hypronatremia, low salt, when they finish. The truly hairy issue in endurance events is treating hyponatremia as dehydration. If you put someone on a IV with minimal saline thinking they are simply dehydrated you will exacerbate the hypronatremia and potentially do real harm. > What should be natural intake of water to us? Unless your having renal problems you really need to go a long way to abuse yourself. If you have some doubts ask your doctor. Any specific replies as to how much you should or should not drink will be a wild a.s guess. It would be easier to define the meaning of life. -DF > What should be natural intake of water to us? http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/water/NU00283 > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > threshold and absorption limits. Loosing lot of sugar, probably may > trigger body to maintain compensatory energy stores may be as fats. In a person in normal health, drinking lots of water does no harm; the only effect is more frequent urination, since any water in excess of what the body requires will be promptly excreted. The chemicals excreted in urine are those that the body no longer requires. If the kidneys are excreting substances that should be retained (protein, glucose), there is a problem with the kidneys, independent of the amount of water consumed. There are conditions that can develop if one drinks truly huge amounts of water (dozens of litres per day), such as hyponatremia, but the more common practice of drinking a few bottles of ordinary water a day doesn't come anywhere near the threshold required to produce these effects. Healthy kidneys can deal with water intakes over an extremely wide range without any trouble at all. > Can you tell me the effects of drinking excess or less water on body's > bio-chemistry? Can drinking excess water be harmful to body? Only in huge amounts, such as tens of litres per day. The drinking has to exceed the kidneys' ability to excrete water--and that ability is considerable, so it takes a tremendous amount of water to cause a problem. > What should be natural intake of water to us? The minimum is about a litre (three glasses) per day in a healthy person who is resting in a cool environment (not perspiring heavily). Exertion and perspiration increase the minimum requirements, sometimes to a litre an hour or more in persons who are exercising in extreme heat and humidity. In general, if you are thirsty, drink water. If you are not thirsty, you don't need to drink anything, but it doesn't hurt to drink somewhat more than thirst demands, if you wish. You can tell how much water you have on board roughly by the color of your urine. Brightly colored urine means minimal water; in this case, drink a tall glass of water. Lightly colored urine means plenty of water on board; in this case, you don't need to drink anything. In hot weather, this is a useful way to determine if you're drinking enough water to stay hydrated. If it's not hot and you aren't exerting yourself, thirst is a reliable indicator. SignatureTranspose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
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