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Medical Forum / General / General / January 2006

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Do I own my medical records? (CT)

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Anonymous - 02 Jan 2006 04:44 GMT
Do I own my medical records? (CT)

Hi folks, I need an expert opinion on this.

I had a Massachusetts doctor who closed his practice. My medical records
were moved from his office to a Massachusetts hospital. My doctor said in
a  letter that he suggested we go with one of two doctors taking his
patients, Dr. A and B. Both  physicians worked in this Massachusetts
hospital. I selected Dr. B, a Mass and Connecticut doctor, and he
retrieved my records from this Mass hospital and moved them to his office
just a few miles over the Mass border, in Connecticut.

I have been unhappy with this physician for several reasons, and I went
to his office and spoke to his receptionist (his wife) and told her that
I had found a new physician (in New  York state, if it matters).

She gave me a form to fill out and informed me that the only records they
can transfer are those they crearted themselves (i.e. that Dr. B
ordered)... This was one exam and one blood test, but my records are
complex and fill a file folder! (They are all paper and not electronic,
by the way.)

I explained the situation (Dr. B's receptionist is very aware of this
situation -- many patients transferred their records to Dr. B.) but she
feigned an inability to understand and just repeated that the cannot send
the records from the original doctor who closed his practice. Even after
I explained that his office is closed and he is long gone and she has
originals... no go.

I don't want to have my records SHOWN to me. I don't want to be charged
45 cents per page copy and have bad photocopies sent to my new physician
(per Connecticut General Statutes, ' 20-7c). I don't want to leave a ream
of health data with a doctor who I am no longer going to who has no need
for it. I want those originals in the folder sent to the new doctor, just
like this doctor got them.

I presume I need a lawyer at this point, but before I pay the fee I'd
like to know if I'm right in thinking that my original medical records do
NOT belong to Doctor B, and/or belong to me.
Stuart A. Bronstein - 03 Jan 2006 01:54 GMT
> I had a Massachusetts doctor who closed his practice. My medical
> records were moved from his office to a Massachusetts hospital. My
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> my records are complex and fill a file folder! (They are all paper
> and not electronic, by the way.)

My guess is that it's unethical for them to withhold your records.  
It's probably ok for them to charge you a reasonable copy charge,
unless you paid for them already as a part of your past billings.  In
any case, contact these people for the whole story:

Massachusetts Board of Registration in Medicine
10 West St., 3rd Floor
Boston, MA 02111
(617) 727-3086 / Fax:(617) 451-9568
(800) 377-0550
Paul Cassel - 03 Jan 2006 01:54 GMT
[wants new dr to xfer files for free to newer dr]

> Do I own my medical records? (CT)

<snip>

> I presume I need a lawyer at this point, but before I pay the fee I'd
> like to know if I'm right in thinking that my original medical records do
> NOT belong to Doctor B, and/or belong to me.

Barring some MA law, you do not have any 'right' to force Dr. B into
transferring  a copy of your medical records without charge. You can
request a full copy of your file sent to whoever you choose, but the
copying and perhaps some transfer fee, is appropriate. That your
original doc did not charge for the transfer isn't relevant to your case.

I'm unclear if a lawyer will help you aside from a general threat which
may terrorize Dr. B into the free transfer. You should really examine
the cost of a lawyer vs. just paying the demanded fee.

-paul
ianal
O'Hush - 03 Jan 2006 01:55 GMT
> Do I own my medical records? (CT)

> I presume I need a lawyer at this point, but before I pay the fee I'd
> like to know if I'm right in thinking that my original medical records do
> NOT belong to Doctor B, and/or belong to me.

I'm not an expert on anything, but I've dug up some resources that will
answer some of your questions.  The records belong to the organization
that prepared them; this link explains why:

http://law.enotes.com/everyday-law-encyclopedia/89984

In your shoes I would
1. Be certain the Mass hospital doesn't still have a copy.
2. If not, visit your new doctor and ask them to request your medical
records from your current doc.  They're likely to get a lot less static
than you're getting.

Your Medical Record Rights in New York
http://hpi.georgetown.edu/privacy/stateguides/ny/nyguide.html

(Scroll down and click on the "to next section" link -- I was confused
and missed this at first)

Your Medical Record Rights in Massachusetts
http://hpi.georgetown.edu/privacy/stateguides/ma/maguide.html

Pickin's were slim for Connecticut.  The pertinent part is copied below
the link:

http://www.ct.gov/opapd/cwp/view.asp?a=1756&Q=277258&opapdPNavCtr=%7C#HEALTHCARE
_PROVIDERS


HOW DO I OBTAIN ACCESS TO MY RECORDS FROM A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER?
We advise you to make the request in writing to the provider. Once you
make the request a provider is required to supply to you complete and
current information concerning your diagnosis, treatment and prognosis.
Such information shall also be supplied any person you designate as
your representative. You may request and receive this information
orally. If you want a copy of your record, the request must be in
writing. In furnishing a copy of the health record, the provider can
not charge more than 45 cents per page and the cost of first class
postage, if applicable. There are provisions for waiving the fee if you
are considered indigent.

CAN THE HEALTH CARE PROVIDER DENY MY REQUEST?
Your request may be denied if the provider determines:

the information is detrimental to your physical or mental health; or
is likely to cause you to harm yourself or another, the information may
be withheld.
However, the information may be supplied to an appropriate third party
or to another provider who may release the information to you.

CAN I APPEAL THE PROVIDER'S REFUSAL TO DISCLOSE MY RECORD?
Yes. If disclosure is denied by a provider, you may, within 30 days of
the refusal, petition the court for an order of disclosure. The court
after a hearing and a private review, will order disclosure unless it
determines that disclosure would be detrimental to your physical or
mental health or is likely to cause you to harm yourself or another.
We urge you to contact an attorney prior to initiating any appeal of
this kind.

HOW DO I OBTAIN ACCESS TO MY RECORDS FROM A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER?
We advise you to make the request in writing to the provider. Once you
make the request a provider is required to supply to you complete and
current information concerning your diagnosis, treatment and prognosis.
Such information shall also be supplied any person you designate as
your representative. You may request and receive this information
orally. If you want a copy of your record, the request must be in
writing. In furnishing a copy of the health record, the provider can
not charge more than 45 cents per page and the cost of first class
postage, if applicable. There are provisions for waiving the fee if you
are considered indigent.

CAN THE HEALTH CARE PROVIDER DENY MY REQUEST?
Your request may be denied if the provider determines:

the information is detrimental to your physical or mental health; or
is likely to cause you to harm yourself or another, the information may
be withheld.
However, the information may be supplied to an appropriate third party
or to another provider who may release the information to you.

CAN I APPEAL THE PROVIDER'S REFUSAL TO DISCLOSE MY RECORD?
Yes. If disclosure is denied by a provider, you may, within 30 days of
the refusal, petition the court for an order of disclosure. The court
after a hearing and a private review, will order disclosure unless it
determines that disclosure would be detrimental to your physical or
mental health or is likely to cause you to harm yourself or another.
We urge you to contact an attorney prior to initiating any appeal of
this kind.

Good luck.

--Patti
Mike Jacobs - 05 Jan 2006 16:47 GMT
> Do I own my medical records? (CT)

Pursuant to HIPAA, you are the one in control of release of the
_information_ in those records.   But if you're asking about the
original records themselves, the doctor's office usually retains
custody of those, even if you switch to another doctor.   They would
copy, with your permission, the material in the file and send it to
whomever you designate.   If local law permits them to charge a copying
fee for this, they probably will.   Most doctors, at least here in MD,
will give a copy of the record to the patient himself for that purpose
without charge even if they charge for copies that go to a lawyer or
insurance company or another doctor.    You'd have to ask a CT lawyer
what the rule is there.

If you're talking about ownership of the actual media on which the
records are stored, why wouldn't those belong to the doctor who created
them?   It's his paper, his ink, his xray film, his electricity, his
computer disks that he used to create them and that they're stored on.
 You as the patient are entitled to full access to the information
they contain, but he's also entitled to keep the materials he actually
created in the course of his practice.    If there are some papers in
the file that _you_ actually provided to the doctor in original form,
he should return those to you, but he is entitled to keep a copy of
those materials you provided.

<History of the situation snipped>

> I explained the situation (Dr. B's receptionist is very aware of this
> situation -- many patients transferred their records to Dr. B.) but she
> feigned an inability to understand and just repeated that the cannot send
> the records from the original doctor who closed his practice. Even after
> I explained that his office is closed and he is long gone and she has
> originals... no go.

Dr. B's office has to retain the originals because Dr. A gave them that
responsibility when he closed his practice.  They need to be able to
show what was, and wasn't, in your original records if the need should
ever arise as evidence in a legal matter, or to copy them to other
doctors, and presumably the information in them can be adequately and
completely passed on by copying the file (or the relevant portion of
it) to the new recipient.

> I don't want to have my records SHOWN to me. I don't want to be charged
> 45 cents per page copy and have bad photocopies sent to my new physician
> (per Connecticut General Statutes, ' 20-7c). I don't want to leave a ream
> of health data with a doctor who I am no longer going to who has no need
> for it.

He does have a need for it.   If you sue him, or Dr. A, for
malpractice, he will want to retain the original records as evidence,
and IMO the law will not make him give them up unless CT has a
provision that overrides HIPAA that would make him do so.

> I want those originals in the folder sent to the new doctor, just
> like this doctor got them.

That's not a direct analogy.  The only reason doctor B got the
originals instead of a copy is because Doctor A closed his practice and
made Doctor B the official repository of Dr. A's original records.
Those records originally belonged to Dr. A, and if Dr. A were still in
practice, Dr. A is the one who would retain the originals and would
make copies for any authorized person who needed them, including you.

> I presume I need a lawyer at this point, but before I pay the fee I'd
> like to know if I'm right in thinking that my original medical records do
> NOT belong to Doctor B, and/or belong to me.

I don't usually tell people _not_ to consult a lawyer, and you are
certainly welcome to do so, but I can't see yet what the problem is.
If you get good, clear copies of your entire file, which you can verify
if need be by actually looking at the originals and comparing them (a
tedious task, but doable) then why would you need the originals?    If
Dr. B persists in hiding the _information_ from you by refusing to
provide clear copies and/or by refusing to let you compare the copies
with the originals while visiting in Dr. B's office, then by all means
your rights have been violated and you should consult a lawyer to
discuss your available remedies.   Good luck,

--
This posting is for discussion purposes, not professional advice.
Anything you post on this Newsgroup is public information.
I am not your lawyer, and you are not my client in any specific legal
matter.
For confidential professional advice, consult your own lawyer in a
private communication.
Mike Jacobs
LAW OFFICE OF W. MICHAEL JACOBS
10440 Little Patuxent Pkwy #300
Columbia, MD 21044
(tel) 410-740-5685      (fax) 410-740-4300
A Michigan Attorney - 05 Jan 2006 16:47 GMT
[OP wants to get all his medical records in the custody of a particular
doctor, but the doctor's staff won't release outside records, claiming
that they can only release records they generated].

The federal Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA)
is both the culprit and the possible rescuer here.  Since its effective
date in 2004, medical service providers have been cautious about
releasing medical records.  Some will voluntarily release all records
in their custody.  Others will voluntarily release only records they
generated, regardless of what the patient's signed authorization says.

Regardless of what the doctor's staff believes, you do have the right
to a copy of your medical records in their custody.  45 CFR
164.524(a)(1).  You must pay a "reasonable, cost-based fee" for copying
and shipping the records.  45 CFR 164.524(c)(4).

You can read about your rights under HIPAA here:

http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_05/45cfr164_05.html

> I presume I need a lawyer at this point, but before I pay the fee I'd
> like to know if I'm right in thinking that my original medical records do
> NOT belong to Doctor B, and/or belong to me.

You may need a lawyer, but maybe not.  If you politely explain your
rights to the records clerk (don't waste your time with the
receptionist) and back them up with the information from the web site
above, you might get what you want.  I recommend being polite and
business-like.  Medical providers deal with rude patients all day long.
Stan Brown - 09 Jan 2006 05:26 GMT
Thu, 05 Jan 2006 11:47:40 -0500 from A Michigan Attorney
<miattorney@gmail.com>:
> Regardless of what the doctor's staff believes, you do have the right
> to a copy of your medical records in their custody.  45 CFR
> 164.524(a)(1).  You must pay a "reasonable, cost-based fee" for copying
> and shipping the records.  45 CFR 164.524(c)(4).

What does "cost-based" mean? For example, would "our actual cost plus
200%" qualify?

And does this "cost-based" in Federal law override New York state
law,[1] which allows a staggering 75 cents a page, for photocopies?

[1] http://hpi.georgetown.edu/privacy/stateguides/ny/nyguide.html

Signature

If you e-mail me from a fake address, your fingers will drop off.

I am not a lawyer; this is not legal advice. When you read anything
legal on the net, always verify it on your own, in light of your
particular circumstances. You may also need to consult a lawyer.

Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
                                  http://OakRoadSystems.com

Paul Cassel - 10 Jan 2006 14:07 GMT
> Thu, 05 Jan 2006 11:47:40 -0500 from A Michigan Attorney
> <miattorney@gmail.com>:
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> [1] http://hpi.georgetown.edu/privacy/stateguides/ny/nyguide.html

I would think that if it came down to a court case on copying costs, the
doc, if he was accused of charging too much would cite NY law as support
for his charges. It'd be up to the judge to decide what's reasonable for
the locale.

Copying medical records isn't a matter of feeding something into a chute
and paying $.04 / page in actual fees for the copier. It can take a lot
of effort to bind, unbind, sort and place the to be copied material.
Thus labor costs at locale would affect how much the actual cost was to
the doc.
A Michigan Attorney - 10 Jan 2006 14:07 GMT
> Thu, 05 Jan 2006 11:47:40 -0500 from A Michigan Attorney
> <miattorney@gmail.com>:
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> What does "cost-based" mean? For example, would "our actual cost plus
> 200%" qualify?

I have not read any cases interpreting that regulation.

> And does this "cost-based" in Federal law override New York state
> law,[1] which allows a staggering 75 cents a page, for photocopies?

Yes, if (pursuant to HIPAA's supremacy provisions) it provides the
patient with greater protection than New York's law does.
Mike Jacobs - 09 Jan 2006 05:26 GMT
> Regardless of what the doctor's staff believes, you do have the right
> to a copy of your medical records in their custody.  45 CFR
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_05/45cfr164_05.html

Yes, that's all well and good, but it feels like I was the only
respondent to OP who read his post to mean that OP wanted the actual,
original records to be given to him?   The office of Dr. B did offer to
copy the records for him, and to give him the originals of the records
they created, but refused to give him the originals from Dr. A's office
that had been transferred to Dr. B when Dr. A closed his practice.
This wasn't good enough for OP, who wanted them to turn over to him the
originals of everything, i.e. Dr. A's whole file.

Would you agree with me that Dr. B has no obligation under HIPAA or
otherwise to give OP full ownership, possession and custody of Dr. A's
ORIGINAL medical records on OP?

--
This posting is for discussion purposes, not professional advice.
Anything you post on this Newsgroup is public information.
I am not your lawyer, and you are not my client in any specific legal
matter.
For confidential professional advice, consult your own lawyer in a
private communication.
Mike Jacobs
LAW OFFICE OF W. MICHAEL JACOBS
10440 Little Patuxent Pkwy #300
Columbia, MD 21044
(tel) 410-740-5685      (fax) 410-740-4300
Joe Morris - 10 Jan 2006 14:07 GMT
>Would you agree with me that Dr. B has no obligation under HIPAA or
>otherwise to give OP full ownership, possession and custody of Dr. A's
>ORIGINAL medical records on OP?

I don't recall that the OP cited any specific situation that would
require the availability of original records, but that doesn't mean
that one could not exist.  Litigation could be one reason why originals
would be required; another would be a medical qualification evaluation.

An example of the last could be one in which a pilot is attempting to
convince the FAA to issue a medical certificate following recovery from
a disqualifying condition such as coronary disease.  The FAA procedures
explicitly state that only originals of certain records such as films
must be provided and that copies are unacceptable.  (No, I've never had
to argue this so I don't know how inflexible the FAA would be on this
point...but the requirement is explicitly laid out in the Aviation
Medical Examiner's handbook.)

Joe Morris (not a lawyer)
Happy Dog - 12 Jan 2006 16:33 GMT
> "Mike Jacobs" <mjacobslaw@gmail.com> writes:
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> point...but the requirement is explicitly laid out in the Aviation
> Medical Examiner's handbook.)

I'm in Canada.  When they upgraded ECG machines, many pilots, including me,
had to undergo treadmill testing.  My medical records went all over the GD
place.  They're back with my GP now.  But I've no idea who has copies now.

moo
Stan Brown - 10 Jan 2006 14:07 GMT
Mon, 09 Jan 2006 00:26:07 -0500 from Mike Jacobs
<mjacobslaw@gmail.com>:
> Would you agree with me that Dr. B has no obligation under HIPAA or
> otherwise to give OP full ownership, possession and custody of Dr. A's
> ORIGINAL medical records on OP?

Logic is dangerous, but...

If Dr A (when living) were obligated to turn over originals on
request, then Dr B would still be obligated to turn them over on
request. Dr A can't give Dr B a right (the right to keep Dr A's
originals) that she doesn't have herself.

On the other hand, if I'm reading correctly then no doctor is
obligated to turn over originals. Therefore the OP did not have the
right to get Dr A's originals from Dr A, doesn't have the right to
get Dr B's originals from Dr B, and doesn't have the right to get Dr
A's originals from Dr A.

If that's correct, and I were Dr B, I wouldn't turn over the
originals I had created without making a copy of everything, just in
case I got sued later for some issue that had arisen in medical care.

Signature

If you e-mail me from a fake address, your fingers will drop off.

I am not a lawyer; this is not legal advice. When you read anything
legal on the net, always verify it on your own, in light of your
particular circumstances. You may also need to consult a lawyer.

Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
                                  http://OakRoadSystems.com

David Chesler - 11 Jan 2006 21:24 GMT
> Logic is dangerous, but...
>
> If Dr A (when living) were obligated to turn over originals on
> request, then Dr B would still be obligated to turn them over on
> request. Dr A can't give Dr B a right (the right to keep Dr A's
> originals) that she doesn't have herself.

 It's not clear how much input OP had in this.  The situation could
also be read that Dr. A released the records to Dr. B for OP, and
has now discharged his obligation to OP, since he would have released
them to Dr. C or to any other doctor of OP's choosing.  Dr. A didn't
charge for releasing or copying (and gave the originals since he was
liquidating his practice) but OP has now had his records deposited
with a place that isn't so free with them.

 In the extreme case, OP might have instructed Dr. A to destroy
his records (to the extent allowed).  If he later regrets this
decision the document-shredding company doesn't have the same
obligation as did Dr. A to present undestroyed documents to OP.

Signature

  - David Chesler <chesler@post.harvard.edu>
    Iacta alea est

A Michigan Attorney - 10 Jan 2006 14:07 GMT
> > Regardless of what the doctor's staff believes, you do have the right
> > to a copy of your medical records in their custody.  45 CFR
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> otherwise to give OP full ownership, possession and custody of Dr. A's
> ORIGINAL medical records on OP?

I agree that HIPAA creates no such obligation.  I don't know about the
laws of Massachusetts or Connecticut, which may do so.  I do agree
that, generally, records generated by a private party belong to that
person.

I find it interesting that OP's new doctor didn't request the records
directly from Dr. B, which is SOP for every doctor I've ever dealt
with.  Perhaps OP hasn't yet been accepted as a patient by the new
doctor.
Mike Jacobs - 09 Jan 2006 05:26 GMT
> Regardless of what the doctor's staff believes, you do have the right
> to a copy of your medical records in their custody.  45 CFR
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_05/45cfr164_05.html

Yes, that's all well and good, but it feels like I was the only
respondent to OP who read his post to mean that OP wanted the actual,
original records to be given to him?   The office of Dr. B did offer to
copy the records for him, and to give him the originals of the records
they created, but refused to give him the originals from Dr. A's office
that had been transferred to Dr. B when Dr. A closed his practice.
This wasn't good enough for OP, who wanted them to turn over to him the
originals of everything, i.e. Dr. A's whole file.

Would you agree with me that Dr. B has no obligation under HIPAA or
otherwise to give OP full ownership, possession and custody of Dr. A's
ORIGINAL medical records on OP?

--
This posting is for discussion purposes, not professional advice.
Anything you post on this Newsgroup is public information.
I am not your lawyer, and you are not my client in any specific legal
matter.
For confidential professional advice, consult your own lawyer in a
private communication.
Mike Jacobs
LAW OFFICE OF W. MICHAEL JACOBS
10440 Little Patuxent Pkwy #300
Columbia, MD 21044
(tel) 410-740-5685      (fax) 410-740-4300
 
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