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Medical Forum / General / General / November 2005

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Nephrolithiasis

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DP - 03 Nov 2005 16:15 GMT
Dear doctors!
I'd like your advice: my daughter, 35, has two kidney stones in the right
kidney calyx (approximately
5-7 mm).They are part Calcium phosphate-75% and part Calcium oxalate-25%.
She would like to know if there are any efficient (natural?) remedies for
dissolving the stones. What is your opinion about two products (you can
order on the net):
Uriflow and Lithonal. Are they helpful or rather harmful?
Thank  you in advance
D
REP - 04 Nov 2005 06:52 GMT
> Dear doctors!
> I'd like your advice: my daughter, 35, has two kidney stones in the right
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> order on the net):
> Uriflow and Lithonal. Are they helpful or rather harmful?

They do nothing aside from dissolving cash flow. Calcium stones cannot
be dissolved. Uric acid and cystine stones, however, can be. The stones
will pass on their own (they're not large enough to need removing by
surgery or other means unless they're causing a problem, which is
unlikely).

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"Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner."
- Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather

DP - 04 Nov 2005 19:28 GMT
please...
any advice,
tia
D.
> Dear doctors!
> I'd like your advice: my daughter, 35, has two kidney stones in the right
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Thank  you in advance
> D
REP - 05 Nov 2005 03:50 GMT
> please...
> any advice,
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> > Uriflow and Lithonal. Are they helpful or rather harmful?
> > Thank  you in advance

Calcium stones, such as those you describe, cannot be dissolved. Citrate
and uric acid stones can be.

Your daughter should be evaluated for possible kidney problems if her
stones are really predominately calcium phosphate.

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"Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner."
- Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather

Pramesh Rutajit - 05 Nov 2005 05:06 GMT
>> please...
>> any advice,
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> Your daughter should be evaluated for possible kidney problems if her
> stones are really predominately calcium phosphate.

Nanobacteria: an infectious cause for kidney stone formation.

Ciftcioglu N, Bjorklund M, Kuorikoski K, Bergstrom K, Kajander EO.

Department of Biochemistry, University of Kuopio, Finland.
neva.ciftcioglu@uku.fi

BACKGROUND: Nanobacteria are cytotoxic, sterile-filterable, gram-negative,
atypical bacteria detected in bovine and human blood. Nanobacteria produce
carbonate apatite on their cell walls. Data on Randall's plaques suggest
that apatite may initiate kidney stone formation. We assessed nanobacteria
in 72 consecutively collected kidney stones from Finnish patients. METHODS:
Nanobacteria and kidney stone units were compared using scanning electron
microscopy (SEM). Demineralized kidney stones were screened for
nanobacteria using a double-staining method and a specific culture method.
Isolated nanobacteria were analyzed for mineral formation in vitro with Ca
and 85Sr incorporation tests. RESULTS: SEM highlighted the resemblance in
size and morphology of nanobacteria and the smallest apatite units in the
kidney stones. Nanobacterial antigens could be detected after the
demineralization of the stones in 1 N HCl. Nanobacteria were surprisingly
resistant to this treatment, and cultures could be established from 93.1%
of the stones. Only struvite stones had common bacteria, in addition to the
nanobacteria. When the results of all of the assays were combined, 70 of
the 72 stones (that is, 97.2%) were nanobacteria positive. Although apatite
stones indicated highest nanobacteria antigen signals, the overall
nanobacteria positivity did not depend on the stone type. The isolated
nanobacteria produced apatite stones in vitro, measured by Ca and 85Sr
incorporation. CONCLUSIONS: We propose that kidney stone formation is a
nanobacterial disease analogous to Helicobacter pylori infection and peptic
ulcer disease. Both diseases are initiated by bacterial infection and
subsequently endogenous and dietary factors influence their progression.

PMID: 10571799 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

There is mounting evidence that nanobacteria are active in creating calcum
deposits (arteries, kidneys, prostate) in the body and that EDTA in
combination with tetracycline may reduce those calcium deposits - EDTA
breaking down the calcium shells that nanobacteria build and tetracycline
killing the little beasts.

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Pramesh Rutajit - p2976221tongue@newsguy.com - remove tongue to reply.

REP - 05 Nov 2005 05:44 GMT
> >> please...
> >> any advice,
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> atypical bacteria detected in bovine and human blood. Nanobacteria produce
> carbonate apatite on their cell walls.

I've read this paper - it's of great interest to me since I do form
carbonate apatite/whewellite/wheddellite stones nearly monthly, but from
the (very little) information the OP provided, her stone morphology is
suggestive of medullary sponge kidney (age, gender, composition and
location of stones). Of course, only a doctor examining this patient and
taking a full history can make a diagnosis; mine is merely a guess made
on the information provided.

If my guess is correct, and she has hypercalicuria, hydrochlorothiazide
(HCTZ, a diuretic) and a mild calcium restriction is the usual treatment
to avoid a recurrence of stones.

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"Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner."
- Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather

 
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