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Medical Forum / General / General / November 2005

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Chi - 02 Nov 2005 22:02 GMT
Ok so Bloomberg says:

Bloomberg - 1 hour ago
Nov. 2 (Bloomberg) -- A US outbreak of avian flu may kill as many as
1.9 million Americans and hospitalize 9.9 million, according to
estimates in a US plan released today that's intended to protect
Americans against a pandemic. ...

My prediction
NOT ONE SINGLE CASE OF BIRD FLU IN HUMANS IN AMERICA THIS YEAR NOT ONE
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 02 Nov 2005 23:59 GMT
> Ok so Bloomberg says:
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> My prediction
> NOT ONE SINGLE CASE OF BIRD FLU IN HUMANS IN AMERICA THIS YEAR NOT ONE

COMMENT:
And who the *&^% do you think cares about YOUR prediction??  Especially
when your being wrong might mean the death of millions?

Nobody knows when the next bird flu epidemic will hit. But the talking
heads are right on this one: it's not a question of "if," but merely a
question of "when."
Steven Bornfeld - 03 Nov 2005 04:36 GMT
> COMMENT:
> And who the *&^% do you think cares about YOUR prediction??  Especially
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> heads are right on this one: it's not a question of "if," but merely a
> question of "when."

    So, Steve--with all respect...
    Why should this be different than the demographic course SARS has
taken?  That was gonna kill everyone too.  Were we just lucky?

Steve

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Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 03 Nov 2005 06:53 GMT
>     So, Steve--with all respect...
>     Why should this be different than the demographic course SARS has
> taken?  That was gonna kill everyone too.  Were we just lucky?
>
> Steve

COMMENT:

Oh, this particular small outbreak we're having now may turn out to be
a SARS-like flash in the pan--- controllable with isolation,
quaranteen, and public health measures.  Most zoonoses are, because the
virus that has made the species jump isn't very comfortable or
infectious.

What makes Avian flu different is that we've had at least two nasty
Avian flu outbreaks which became full epidemics-- the 1918 flu, and
also the 1997 Hong Kong flu, which was a H5N1 virus like the one
killing people now. Both these epidemics were far worse than SARS. If
we've had two, it's only a matter of time till #3.

SBH
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 03 Nov 2005 16:08 GMT
>>    So, Steve--with all respect...
>>    Why should this be different than the demographic course SARS has
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> SBH

    OK, thanks.  So I guess it is relative infectivity, which I guess can
more or less be predicted by the epidemiologic course of previous
epidemics of related viruses.
    What I don't understand is why the hysteria now--when presumably
infectious disease people have known since at least 1918 that this COULD
happen again.

Steve

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

bae@cs.toronto.no-uce.edu - 03 Nov 2005 20:25 GMT
>    OK, thanks.  So I guess it is relative infectivity, which I guess can
>more or less be predicted by the epidemiologic course of previous
>epidemics of related viruses.
>    What I don't understand is why the hysteria now--when presumably
>infectious disease people have known since at least 1918 that this COULD
>happen again.

There's been an epizootic of unprecedented virulence, persistence and
spread in domestic poultry since 2003.  Despite extremely strenuous
efforts to contain the epizootic by destroying hundreds of millions
of birds, the epizootic has persisted, recurred, and spread over most of
eastern Asia and is now present in Europe.  Previous outbreaks of highly
lethal avian influenza in birds have always been contained and extirpated
before they spread outside an individual country or part of a country.

The longer the epizootic persists, and the larger number of people and
swine who are exposed to it, the higher the probability that a human
transmissible form will arise.  The WHO, the FAO and the governments of
the involved countries have been going flat out but so far have only
managed to slow and hinder the spread of this epizootic.  This applies
not only to poor countries, but technologically advanced ones like
Japan.  Since unlike previous outbreaks in Hong Kong, the Netherlands,
Pennsylvania, and elsewhere, control measures are not succeeding, and
the epizootic is continuing and worsening, it's a great deal more
likely that this particular strain is going to mutate into a human
pathogen capable of causing a pandemic than other strains were in the
past.

It was a real danger when an outbreak in Hong Kong killed about a dozen
people.  Killing every bird in Hong Kong stopped that epizootic,
eradicating the danger.  Perhaps a billion people have been exposed
to this strain, more all the time, and control measures are not succeeding.
So the present risk of a pandemic developing is much greater than at
any time since 1918.

Hysteria isn't very useful, but preparedness and surveillance are
necessary if a pandemic is to be mitigated, as well as continued
efforts to stop the spread of the epizootic.  While this epizootic
isn't sure to give rise to a pandemic, the risk is not only real, but
much higher than in the past many decades.

If you want actual numbers, and the details of the epizootic, the WHO
site (www.who.int) has lots.
Mark & Steven Bornfeld - 03 Nov 2005 20:43 GMT
>>    OK, thanks.  So I guess it is relative infectivity, which I guess can
>>more or less be predicted by the epidemiologic course of previous
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> If you want actual numbers, and the details of the epizootic, the WHO
> site (www.who.int) has lots.

    Thanks--very helpful!

Steve

Signature

Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Bob - 04 Nov 2005 05:08 GMT
>> COMMENT:
>> And who the *&^% do you think cares about YOUR prediction??  Especially
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>    Why should this be different than the demographic course SARS has
>taken?  That was gonna kill everyone too.  Were we just lucky?

Remember that for much of the SARS event, it was a completely
uncharacterized disease (and virus). Thus with initial signs of rapid
spread, there was some "panic" of the type "We don't know what this
is, it looks pretty bad so far, and we have no idea what comes next."
With flu, we know the specific bird flu virus currently circulating,
and we know the tendency of flu viruses to rapidly mutate (including
assortment).

bob
Bob - 04 Nov 2005 05:08 GMT
>Ok so Bloomberg says:
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>My prediction
>NOT ONE SINGLE CASE OF BIRD FLU IN HUMANS IN AMERICA THIS YEAR NOT ONE

So?

Maybe you will be right. Let's hope so. But so what? Better to be
prepared than not. Whether this particular flu virus hits this year or
not, it is the nature of the flu viruses to cause major problems from
time to time.

There is no basis for your prediction at all. Predicting that a major
flu pandemic will occur at some point, and that the current bird virus
is a good candidate, requires only understanding how flu viruses work.

bob
Chi - 04 Nov 2005 16:46 GMT
HORSE HOCKEY. NOT WITH MY 7.1 BILLION IN TAX DOLLARS BUSTER.

THIS IS A SCAM OF COLLOSAL PROPORTIONS.

JUST LIKE SARS

JUST LIKE AIDS

JUST LIKE THE POST 9-11 SMALL POX DEBACLE.
 
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