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Medical Forum / General / General / October 2005caffeine and ephedrine; strokes and myocardial infarctions
Before I make additional newsgroup allegations that more people have died from strokes or myocardial infaractions IN THE PAST YEAR, after drinking some kind of caffeinated beverage: coffee, tea, soft drinks, tea, etc., than have died from similar maladies IN THE PAST FIFTY YEARS after using ma huang, mormon tea, ephedra or ephedrine containing products, where can I find some authoritative data to support my supposition? I ask because people have tried to tell me ephedra is dangerous and I seek to make the point caffeine is far more dangerous, yet the government is doing it's best to make ephedra illegal and they are doing nothing about what I believe may be a far more dangerous drug -- if I can just come up with some statistics to support my opinion. Equally inane are all of the lawsuits against companies that make ephedra containing products. It has bee known as a medicinal herb for over 4,000 years. It has been known to have stimulant properties for over 4,000 years. Just because jocks and health conscious boomers and gen-exers are too ignorant to google this botanical before ingesting it isn't the fault of the companies that make it available for human consumption any more than peanut packaers are responsible if you die after eating a peanut. Why can't people accept responsibility for their own well-being? If you believe I am right could you please let me know and let me know what statistics you base this assumption on. Thanks. > Before I make additional newsgroup allegations that more people have died > from strokes or myocardial infaractions IN THE PAST YEAR, after drinking > some kind of caffeinated beverage: coffee, tea, soft drinks, tea, etc., than > have died from similar maladies IN THE PAST FIFTY YEARS after using ma > huang, mormon tea, ephedra or ephedrine containing products, where can I > find some authoritative data to support my supposition? What indication(s) do you have that this might be true? Usually a problem is perceived and an epidemiological study is done. Other than the fact that you think ephedra shouldn't be regulated, do you have any particular basis for your supposition about caffeine, or is this merely frustration on your part? Steve > I ask because people have tried to tell me ephedra is dangerous and I seek > to make the point caffeine is far more dangerous, yet the government is [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Thanks.  Signature{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fswiss\fcharset0 Arial;}} {\*\generator Msftedit 5.41.15.1507;}\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 Remove "nospam" to reply\par } >> Before I make additional newsgroup allegations that more people have died >> from strokes or myocardial infaractions IN THE PAST YEAR, after drinking [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Steve Possibly frustration, having discovered pseusoephedrine works just as well for my breathing problems as ephedrine containing products; however; my frustration is more due to the fact that the government could really care less about ephedrine, they only want to ban my anti-asthmatic drug of choice because it is a precursor of the drug methamphetamine and I don't even use meth, well, not anymore, and never to excess when I did, maybe twice in my whole life. On the other hand, in support of my argument that some drugs should require a prescription than don't, here is an even better example -- it takes a prescription to buy coumadin, yet you can buy the exact same chemical (warfarin) for much less money is you just go to the hardware store and ask for rat poison. They don't even ask what doctor prescribed it. So is not so much the name of the drug that matters, it is the principle of the thing, so here is something else I would like to know -- what are the statistics for children who die from rat poison vs. coumadin poisoning every year. If the answer is rat poison then isn't it logical to suggest that rat poison should be illegal too? I suppose it would be pointless here to even suggest anything about the legality of alcohol or tobacco. We know deaths from these substances are greater from those from ephedrine OR methedrine combined, and there ARE statistics is support of this argument, yet neither of those drugs are illegal, and weight for weight at least, pure nicotine is more than 1000 times more toxic than either ephedrine or methedrine, so why is the FDA and USDOJ and DEA picking on poor little ephedrine? I'll tell you why, there are two reasons: 1.) Many politicians use nicotine containing products themselves and to a much greater extent than any who have ever used ephedra containing products, and, 2.) More of their constituents use nicotine containing products as well, I don't even need the statistics I asked you for regarding caffeine and strokes if for no other reason than the fact over 400,000 die from and cancer alone, every year, any often from second hand smoke (a case where OTHER PEOPLE are the murderers) so it stands to reason far more than 400,000 are actually using products that contain nicotine (and, allegedly, other carcinogenic drugs in cigarettes that are not made from organic homegrown crops). P.S. They say the pen is mightier than the sword. I am hoping this is true. I am hoping I can influence those who have the power to convince the lawmakers. > whole life. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > (warfarin) for much less money is you just go to the hardware store and ask > for rat poison. They don't even ask what doctor prescribed it. I doubt in the extreme that any particular brand of rat poison is pharmo grade warfarin. Yes, this can be frustrating. There is a hot new very expensive material used in dentistry called MTA (mineral trioxide aggregate) to seal and treat root canals gone awry. Very expensive stuff. Turns out to be essentially portland cement. I am sure there are many OTC drugs that probably should be regulated. But the point here is that materials are marketed for their intended use. I doubt very much that many folks would take rat poison to save a couple of bucks. And neither rat poison nor Coumadin are "illegal". There are simply some meds that should only be used with medical supervision. BTW, I have no particular position with regard to ephedra--except that if it is sold as an "herbal remedy" it does not have the same level of oversight as a prescription drug. If there is a history of ephedra preparations that are unsafe or adulterated, there is clear rationale for considering action. Steve > So is not so much the name of the drug that matters, it is the principle of > the thing, so here is something else I would like to know -- what are the [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > (and, allegedly, other carcinogenic drugs in cigarettes that are not made > from organic homegrown crops). Signature{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fswiss\fcharset0 Arial;}} {\*\generator Msftedit 5.41.15.1507;}\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 Remove "nospam" to reply\par } >Before I make additional newsgroup allegations that more people have died >from strokes or myocardial infaractions IN THE PAST YEAR, after drinking [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > >Thanks. I believe you are right but have no statistics for you. People who die from strokes don't sue the makers of ephreda. Their relatives do that little job because they blame the company instead of the victim. For that reason alone such companies should pay more attention to what they are selling. Ora |
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