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Medical Forum / General / General / October 2005HIV "activist" and cohorts murder child
HIV/AIDS deniers, anti-vaccinationists, anti-circumcision freaks unite to kill a child by their ignorance and stupidity. Congratulations, child-haters! http://news.yahoo.com/s/latimests/20050924/ts_latimes/amothersdenialadaughtersdeath > HIV/AIDS deniers, anti-vaccinationists, anti-circumcision freaks unite > to kill a child by their ignorance and stupidity. Congratulations, > child-haters! > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/latimests/20050924/ts_latimes/amothersdenialadaughtersdeath COMMENT: Of course if the dunderheads had looked at the kid's HIV status, viral load, and CD4 counts, they'd have seen all this coming, if that's what it was. But they squinched their eyes shut, saying there is no HIV, or if there is, it's harmless. Well, so what then stopped them from looking at the CD4 counts anyway, just to be sure? CD4s are measure all the time, and if we're healthy, we all have a lot of them. Does Maggiore think CD4's are a construct of scientism and social constructivism, also? What about sudden death in healthy children? Maybe we doctors make that up, too. You'd have thought that, to hear Maggiore talk not long ago. Maybe while Maggiore is rethinking AIDS, she should rethink basic reality. Denial catches up to you in this world. I will admit that the news isn't totally consistent. Even a kid with AIDS to die that fast from an infection is rather strange, if you believe that report of the normal oxygen level. What infection would this be? They wanted to give her bactrim rather than the amoxicillin she got? So what do they think killed her? PCP with normal oxygen? No. That's not the way AIDS works. But anyway, we'll have her lung biopsies, and her peripheral CD4 counts, and her viral loads, and plenty of stuff to fry Christine Maggiore, if she deserves it. Which she probably does. Too bad this didn't happen to her first. SBH PS. Anybody want to BET me this poor kid had few or no lymphocytes, pretty much like Kiberley Bergalis? One wonders if Duesberg and Rath is going to blame this child's lack of immune system and death on poppers or African style malnutrition. He certainly can't blame AZT for this one. Which he did for Bergalis, even though she was in the hospital for candidal esophagitis with almost no CD4 cells, before she ever saw AZT. >>HIV/AIDS deniers, anti-vaccinationists, anti-circumcision freaks unite >>to kill a child by their ignorance and stupidity. Congratulations, >>child-haters! >> >>http://news.yahoo.com/s/latimests/20050924/ts_latimes/amothersdenialadaughtersdeath More on this clown Paul Fleiss: Another "hero" of the anti movement is Paul Fleiss, a pharmacist and osteopath who obtained an MD without going to medical school as a result of legislation passed in California in 1962 that for a brief time allowed an osteopath to convert their degree to an MD. Fleiss moved from Detroit to take advantage of this by becoming a pediatrician. The anti-circ. movement quote Dr Fleiss and his writings extensively. Nevertheless, his scientific credibility has always been weak. However, his integrity has also fallen by the wayside owing to involvement in illegal activities, namely laundering the business proceeds of his infamous daughter, Heidi Fleiss, the Hollywood madam who provided prostitutes to celebrities. In 1995 the Los Angeles Times reported "Last week Fleiss' father, Dr Paul Fleiss, pleaded guilty to three felony counts of conspiring with his daughter to defraud the Internal Revenue Service by hiding her income over three years and making false statements to federal banks. Fleiss, 61, a prominent pediatrician, is expected to be sentenced to four to 10 months jail and be fined $50,000. His sentencing is set for September". In the end Fleiss received a suspended sentence as part of a plea bargain for giving evidence in the case. A long article was published on Fleiss by the Los Angeles Times’ Sunday April 9 issue in 1995. In it his involvement in holistic health care and breastfeeding is described. In one of several malpractice complaints "the parents contend that Fleiss was so insistent that they breast feed their infant, despite the mother's difficulty in producing milk, that the child eventually became dehydrated and went into hypertensive cardiac arrest. The baby ended up losing a kidney ..." "In [another] case, a Burbank couple charged that Fleiss had been too lax when their 3-year-old developed a fever. The doctor, they said, told them it was nothing to worry about. Then the child suffered a seizure resulting in irreversible brain damage". Without question the professional behavior of Dr. Fleiss in this matter is reprehensible. However, the suggestion that Dr. Fleiss took advantage of the 1962 assimillation in California of most D.O.s there into the ranks off the California Medical Association, thus becoming a pediatrician, is just silly and betrays a profound ignorance of the facts. Many thousands of pediatricians in the United States, then and now, bear the D.O. degree and not the M.D. Most trained in AMA programs and are board certified by the same. Dr. Fleiss was not "enabled" by the 1962 circumstances in California to "become" anything. He obtained certification in Pediatrics because he attended Medical School (albeit an Osteopathic one in Kansas City). The only thing the 1962 assimillation allowed him to do was convert his D.O. degree (which of course is an unlimited license to practice medicine and surgery in all 50 states), to an M.D. degree. Both degrees (than and now) allow precisely the same license (medical) and scope of practice. Blatant errors of this sort tend to lessen the perceived credibility of the rest of one's post, reguardless of how correct and appropriate it may be. > >>HIV/AIDS deniers, anti-vaccinationists, anti-circumcision freaks unite > >>to kill a child by their ignorance and stupidity. Congratulations, [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > them it was nothing to worry about. Then the child suffered a seizure > resulting in irreversible brain damage". > HIV/AIDS deniers, anti-vaccinationists, anti-circumcision freaks unite > to kill a child by their ignorance and stupidity. Congratulations, > child-haters! > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/latimests/20050924/ts_latimes/amothersdenialadaughtersdeath I'm no fan of Maggiore, but does this really sound like an AIDS death? I mean, it's not even clear if the kid was HIV+, it's not like it's guaranteed just because her mother is. Beth >>HIV/AIDS deniers, anti-vaccinationists, anti-circumcision freaks unite >>to kill a child by their ignorance and stupidity. Congratulations, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Beth I'd agree that as reported from the news story it's hard to tell if this had anything to do with HIV. On the other hand, the LA coroner apparently called the cause of death "AIDS-related pneumonia", which suggests that the news report is missing some important details. I don't think it would have been obvious that this was any sort of pneumonia (AIDS-related or otherwise) based on the story.  SignatureDavid Rind drind@caregroup.harvard.edu > >>HIV/AIDS deniers, anti-vaccinationists, anti-circumcision freaks unite > >>to kill a child by their ignorance and stupidity. Congratulations, [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > think it would have been obvious that this was any sort of pneumonia > (AIDS-related or otherwise) based on the story. Yeah, I'd really like to know why that the actual autopsy results were, although I don't know how much of that kind of thing ever gets made public. Would the designation 'AIDS-related pneumonia' ever be used if the deceased hadn't ever been tested for HIV or diagnosed with AIDS - i.e. does that imply that the child was tested for HIV posthumously, or would a diagnosis of Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia be enough? It just seems weird. Again, it's not like I'm an expert or anything, but I'd sort of think a child with a drastically impaired immune system would be having lots of health problems, not seemingly fine health and then sudden death after a short illness. Beth Beth > Yeah, I'd really like to know why that the actual autopsy results were, > although I don't know how much of that kind of thing ever gets made > public. Would the designation 'AIDS-related pneumonia' ever be used if > the deceased hadn't ever been tested for HIV or diagnosed with AIDS - > i.e. does that imply that the child was tested for HIV posthumously, or > would a diagnosis of Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia be enough? In an adult from a risk group with no other explanation for PCP, a diagnosis of PCP is "AIDS-defining" even without an HIV test, not that this is really viewed as sufficient any more. I don't know whether the same is true in a child. > It just seems weird. Again, it's not like I'm an expert or anything, > but I'd sort of think a child with a drastically impaired immune system > would be having lots of health problems, not seemingly fine health and > then sudden death after a short illness. Adults with HIV sometimes do present with PCP and die, particularly if they take weeks to seek care for the acute illness. Some feel perfectly well until they get PCP. My impression is that children infected perinatally with HIV typically have growth delays and other problems and that it would be unusual to reach age three perfecly healthy (but I, too, am no expert in pediatric HIV). The news report said the mother breast fed, and so I suppose the baby might have been infected sometime later in life. SignatureDavid Rind drind@caregroup.harvard.edu >My impression is that children infected perinatally with HIV typically >have growth delays and other problems and that it would be unusual to >reach age three perfecly healthy (but I, too, am no expert in pediatric >HIV). One also has to remember, thought, that her mother and pediatrician had their stupidity blinders on and may certainly have believed she was "perfectly healthy" when she may not have been. She may have thought nothing about treating recurrent thrush and diarrhea with gentian violet, herbs, and yoga, lying to herself that this was normal. PF > >My impression is that children infected perinatally with HIV typically > >have growth delays and other problems and that it would be unusual to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > gentian violet, herbs, and yoga, lying to herself that this was > normal. It's certainly possible. It's also possible that associating this death with the mother's HIV status was a mistake. With the paucity of hard evidence available to the general public at this point, I think it's risky to draw conclusions one way or another. (I'm assuming you don't have any special access to the case and are going straight off the LA Times story.) Beth > HIV/AIDS deniers, anti-vaccinationists, anti-circumcision freaks unite > to kill a child by their ignorance and stupidity. Congratulations, > child-haters! http://news.yahoo.com/s/latimests/20050924/ts_latimes/amothersdenialadaughtersdeath ----- Original Message ----- From: "PF Riley" <pfriley@watt-not.com> Newsgroups: misc.kids.health,sci.med Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 8:38 AM Subject: HIV "activist" and cohorts murder child > HIV/AIDS deniers, anti-vaccinationists, anti-circumcision freaks unite > to kill a child by their ignorance and stupidity. Congratulations, > child-haters! Reality check The total number of iatrogenic deaths shown in the following table is 783,936. It is evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the United States. http://www.nutritioninstituteofamerica.org/research/DeathByMedicine/DeathByMedic ine1.htm If commerce laws were applied equally, the "knowing is beautiful" ads for HIV testing would have to bear a disclaimer, just like cigarettes: "Warning: This test will not tell you if you're infected with a virus. It may confirm that you are pregnant or have used drugs or alcohol, or that you 've been vaccinated; that you have a cold, liver disease, arthritis, or are stressed, poor, hungry or tired. Or that you're African. It will not tell you if you're going to live or die; in fact, we really don't know what testing positive, or negative, means at all."----- The Hidden Face of HIV - Part 1 By Liam Scheff http://www.whale.to/a/scheff2.html >If commerce laws were applied equally, the "knowing is beautiful" ads for >HIV testing would have to bear a disclaimer, just like cigarettes: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >testing positive, or negative, means at all."----- The Hidden Face of HIV - >Part 1 By Liam Scheff http://www.whale.to/a/scheff2.html No, YOU don't know what testing positive or negative means, because you are a moron. PF "No, YOU don't know what testing positive or negative means, because you are a moron." Using your loose terminology you "murder" 780,000 people every year in the USA, plus the 500,000 you "murder" with cancer chemotherapy, plus the million or so murdered with AZT, helped by the HIV test. "AZT is toxic, it kills...... It kills the immune system, it kills healthy tissue.....I regard HIV as the greatest hoax and fraud in all of medical history, and I would say AZT would be up there."-- John Lauritsen interview by Gary Null http://www.whale.to/a/hivfraud.html and anyone half interested in psychology would know you are transfereing your suppressed guilt onto this poor woman, who has been pricking your dead and buried conscience for some time over HIV cheers john > "No, YOU don't know what testing positive or negative means, because > you are a moron." [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > of medical history, and I would say AZT would be up there."-- John > Lauritsen interview by Gary Null Incredible to believe there are still people like you out there. Followers of doom. "Robert" <RobertsSong@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:OOidnbLulK_lLKreRVn- > Incredible to believe there are still people like you out there. > Followers of doom. Anything is better than your mafia http://www.whale.to/a/medical_mafia.html >>"No, YOU don't know what testing positive or negative means, because >>you are a moron." [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Incredible to believe there are still people like you out there. > Followers of doom. John's "mind" is protected by aluminum foil in his beanie. >"No, YOU don't know what testing positive or negative means, because >you are a moron." [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >of medical history, and I would say AZT would be up there."-- John >Lauritsen interview by Gary Null http://www.whale.to/a/hivfraud.html Wow, an ignoramus interviewing a loon. Highly informative. (Lauritsen use to post here, years ago. I think he's gotten worse since then, something I would have thought was not possible.) -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If you can't say something nice, then sit next to me." -- Alice Roosevelt Longworth On Saturday September 24, 2005, The Los Angeles Times ran a front-page story on the death of my three year-old child, Eliza Jane Scovill, under the condemnatory headline, "A Mother's Denial, A Daughter's Death." My reply to the extensive article, is as yet unpublished. I am using this venue to share important facts overlooked in their article. Under advisement from our attorneys, I can not say more on the subject at this time. We are still awaiting data missing from the autopsy report and for the results of a review by an independent pathologist. Please stand by for more information as it becomes available. I will speak, loudly, as soon as I am able. With thanks for your patience and understanding, Christine Maggiore Full text of Christine Maggiore's letter to Los Angeles Times regarding their September 24 front-page story. "A Mother's Denial," your article on the death of my daughter, Eliza Jane Scovill, breezed past a number of crucial facts in its rush to publication and judgment. Medical records show my daughter did not exhibit symptoms consistent with the coroner's determination of pneumonia, AIDS-related or otherwise. The three pediatricians who examined Eliza Jane in the days before her death all noted clear lungs. At a doctor visit on May 14, the day before she died, no cough or respiratory congestion was evident. When my daughter collapsed at home the next evening following her fourth dose of antibiotic, she did not have the blue lips or fingertips suggestive of life-threatening pneumonia. After being transported to a near-by hospital by ambulance, emergency room doctors took a series of chest X-rays that revealed nothing to account for her dire condition. All other tests run that terrible night left ER doctors without an explanation for my daughter's death. For this reason, Eliza Jane was brought to the Los Angeles County Coroner for an autopsy. During an autopsy performed on May 18, my daughter's lungs were carefully examined, weighed and measured. The coroner released her body to a mortuary the following day having found no apparent cause of death. Just before Eliza Jane's memorial service on May 29, my husband contacted the coroner's office for an update on our daughter's case and spoke directly with the medical examiner. She informed him they had yet to discover what took our little girl's life, and having eliminated the common and obvious, they would now go through a check-list that included investigation of such unsettling possibilities as chemical toxins and poisons. That same week, a curious friend phoned the coroner's office and asked if HIV tests were routinely administered in cases of unexplained death. He was told that "the symptoms of AIDS are so obvious" it's not necessary to run HIV tests on all patients referred with no apparent cause. On June 28, one of my daughter's pediatricians received a call from the coroner's office demanding to know if he was aware of my book and HIV status. Before hanging up, the doctor was threatened with a subpoena. Despite the apparent new awareness of my HIV positivity and controversial book, it still took three more months for the corner to decide upon a diagnosis of AIDS-related pneumonia. Given the circumstances, we have questions about the medical and scientific basis for the coroner's conclusion. Did Eliza Jane get a diagnosis by association or is there incontrovertible clinical evidence for AIDS-related pneumonia? Did our daughter, unlike her father and brother, actually test HIV positive? We won't know until the conclusion of an independent investigation in three weeks. In the meantime, my family must not only endure the pain and devastation of our horrendous loss, but the world's speculation and scrutiny. We only hope that when all the facts are in, the LA Times will rush to publish the rest of our story. Respectfully, Christine Maggiore > On Saturday September 24, 2005, The Los Angeles Times ran a front-page > story on the death of my three year-old child, Eliza Jane Scovill, > under the condemnatory headline, "A Mother's Denial, A Daughter's > Death." My reply to the extensive article, is as yet unpublished. I am > using this venue to share important facts overlooked in their article. "Aren't those health-nuts going to feel stupid one day, lying in the hospital, dying of nothing?" --Red Foxx SBH > HIV/AIDS deniers, anti-vaccinationists, anti-circumcision freaks unite > to kill a child by their ignorance and stupidity. Congratulations, > child-haters! > > You're great! One more idiot like you and we will kill all gays and Jews. Bet you are one of those save the "fetus" kill the child. A right to lifer that supports the death penalty. We know your kind. The guy who never got the grade, the career, the girl, the anything. To make up for it you poke your ugly face in places nobody wants to see it, let alone hear it. Reading the article Dr. Fleiss did not see the child. His name is thrown in for the media value. This is a tragic situation. http://news.yahoo.com/s/latimests/20050924/ts_latimes/amothersdenialadaughtersdeath >> HIV/AIDS deniers, anti-vaccinationists, anti-circumcision freaks unite >> to kill a child by their ignorance and stupidity. Congratulations, >> child-haters! > >You're great! One more idiot like you and we will kill all gays and >Jews. Boy would you be a terrible FBI profiler. How do you know I'm not gay or Jewish? >Bet you are one of those save the "fetus" kill the child. A >right to lifer that supports the death penalty. How are those two the same thing? Who supports the death penalty for children? >We know your kind. I don't think you do. See above. You're confused. >The guy who never got the grade, the career, the girl, the anything. Huh? I got my first choice of college, medical school, residency, and private practice, I'm married, and am a homeowner. Doesn't that count? >To >make up for it you poke your ugly face in places nobody wants to see >it, let alone hear it. I didn't ask you to read my post. >Reading the article Dr. Fleiss did not see the child. His name is >thrown in for the media value. This is a tragic situation. Yes, it is tragic. Too bad the girl's mother thought she knew better than everyone else. PF |
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