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Medical Forum / General / General / September 2005

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Is babbling on these ngs a part of the Scientific Method?

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Mr-Natural-Health - 24 Sep 2005 00:56 GMT
The Scientific Method can be defined as follows.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_Method#Elements_of_a_scientific_method
"The essential elements of a scientific method are iterations and
recursions of the following four steps:

1. Characterization (Quantification, observation and measurement)
2. Hypothesis (a theoretical, hypothetical explanation of the
observations and measurements)
3. Prediction (logical deduction from the hypothesis)
4. Experiment (test of all of the above)"

The Scientific Method when applied to Health/Medical research has been
called Medical Scientism by moi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Medical_Scientism&oldid=2345984
"Medical Scientism is an expression used to refer to the attitude and
method of the typical researcher conducting medical research. This form
of scientism is used by some in alternative medicine as a pejorative
expression to describe a couple of assumptions held by people educated
in the Basic Sciences.

1. That all forms of alternative methods of treatment must be validated
by research that is characterized by randomized clinical trials and
double-blind, peer reviewed studies published in respectable journals.

   1. Other research methodologies are needed when validating for
non-drug forms of alternative treatments.

2. That anybody who uses medical scientism as a pejorative expression
is presumed by the scientific community to hold a non-science-based
form of medical knowledge which is both possible and preferable to
evidence-based medicine.

    1. Intellectual discussions in opposition to the established
position of the scientific community are part of the scientific
process."

Now boys and Girls, kindly show me how babbling away on these science
ngs. And, or attacking Quackery on these science ngs is a valid part of
the scientific method for health/nutritional research.
outsor@citynet.net - 24 Sep 2005 00:05 GMT
Mr. "natural health" just being a natural bigot recently posted the below,
naturally:

"I love to watch a bunch of scientist want-a-bees make fools out of
themselves by parading around like a bunch of niggers living in New
Orleans."

"Sounds like something the nigger would say to the white lady that he was
raping in the Astro Dome.

The more slime is offended, the better I like it."
johngohde@naturalhealthperspective.com - 24 Sep 2005 01:13 GMT
out...@citynet.net wrote:
> Mr. "natural health" just being a natural bigot recently posted the below,
> naturally:

Until you cite a hyperlink, Dear, your scribble is exactly that:
Scribble.

Just thought that, that the science want-a-bee might want to know how
written work should be cited in a science ng.

And, as an actual case study kindly relate how your above babbling is a
part of the scientific method, or is in any way, shape, or form
furthers scientific progress.
johngohde@naturalhealthperspective.com - 24 Sep 2005 01:15 GMT
The Scientific Method can be defined as follows.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_Method#Elements_of_a_scientific_method
"The essential elements of a scientific method are iterations and
recursions of the following four steps:

1. Characterization (Quantification, observation and measurement)
2. Hypothesis (a theoretical, hypothetical explanation of the
observations and measurements)
3. Prediction (logical deduction from the hypothesis)
4. Experiment (test of all of the above)"

The Scientific Method when applied to Health/Medical research has been
called Medical Scientism by moi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Medical_Scientism&oldid=2345984
"Medical Scientism is an expression used to refer to the attitude and
method of the typical researcher conducting medical research. This form
of scientism is used by some in alternative medicine as a pejorative
expression to describe a couple of assumptions held by people educated
in the Basic Sciences.

1. That all forms of alternative methods of treatment must be validated
by research that is characterized by randomized clinical trials and
double-blind, peer reviewed studies published in respectable journals.

   1. Other research methodologies are needed when validating for
non-drug forms of alternative treatments.

2. That anybody who uses medical scientism as a pejorative expression
is presumed by the scientific community to hold a non-science-based
form of medical knowledge which is both possible and preferable to
evidence-based medicine.

    1. Intellectual discussions in opposition to the established
position of the scientific community are part of the scientific
process."

Now boys and Girls, kindly show me how babbling away on these science
ngs. And, or attacking Quackery on these science ngs is a valid part of
the scientific method for health/nutritional research.
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 24 Sep 2005 01:52 GMT
> The Scientific Method when applied to Health/Medical research has been
> called Medical Scientism by moi.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> by research that is characterized by randomized clinical trials and
> double-blind, peer reviewed studies published in respectable journals.

Okay, up to here it makes sense.

>     1. Other research methodologies are needed when validating for
> non-drug forms of alternative treatments.

What does this mean? Is somebody asserting this? Is this supposed to be
another assumption of people educated in the basic sciences?

> 2. That anybody who uses medical scientism as a pejorative expression
> is presumed by the scientific community to hold a non-science-based
> form of medical knowledge which is both possible and preferable to
> evidence-based medicine.

This might make sense if it stated

> 2. That anybody who uses medical scientism as a pejorative expression
> is presumed by the scientific community to THINK THEY hold a non-science-based
> form of medical knowledge which is both possible and preferable to
> evidence-based medicine.

But that would apply only if the scientific community thought much
about people who use this term much, at all. Which they don't.

>      1. Intellectual discussions in opposition to the established
> position of the scientific community are part of the scientific
> process."

Again, who is supposed to be holding this view? Who is supposed to be
opposed to this view?  It's not clear.

No wonder the Gohde "contribution" is up for Wikipedia deletion.

> Now boys and Girls, kindly show me how babbling away on these science
> ngs. And, or attacking Quackery on these science ngs is a valid part of
> the scientific method for health/nutritional research.

Did anybody claim it was?

Those who want to claim the validity of other methods than the
scientific method for establishing knowledge in a given scientific
field (such as nutrition), have to do so. The burden of proof or
argument is on them, since by now in the modern age, the scientific
method is more or less the default when it comes to how we can search
for demonstrable knowledge in any area.

SBH
Google knows your thoughts - 24 Sep 2005 02:57 GMT
... the burden of proof ... is ... in the modern age ... the scientific
... default ... for demonstrable knowledge ...
johngohde@naturalhealthperspective.com - 25 Sep 2005 00:15 GMT
> No wonder the Gohde "contribution" is up for Wikipedia deletion.

You were looking at an older version of an article at Wikipedia.

Here perhaps is a more concise version.
http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/Scientism
"Finally, scientism can also refer to the attitude and method of the
typical natural scientist. (Source: The American Heritage? Dictionary
of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000.
(http://www.bartleby.com/61/75/S0147500.html))

This viewpoint is typified by comments, such as "there is one and only
one method of science" or "there is one and only one way to conduct
valid scientific research" as well as by attempts to limit intellectual
debate to the hegemony of the established position of the scientific
community. Medical scientism defines the term scientism in this sense
of how valid medical research is supposed to be conducted."

> > Now boys and Girls, kindly show me how babbling away on these science
> > ngs. And, or attacking Quackery on these science ngs is a valid part of
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> method is more or less the default when it comes to how we can search
> for demonstrable knowledge in any area.

And, I am stating that the burden of proof for science want-a-bees
engaging in in slime-bucket tactics on theses ngs is up to them to
prove that they are NOT street trash.

So far, you are proving my point entirely that babbling away on these
ngs has nothing to do with the scientific method.

For the benefit of the mentally challenge on these ngs, supporting
science or the basic sciences is NOT at all what counts.

Benjamin Rush, the Allopath
http://pages.hosting.domaindirect.com/naturalhealthperspective.com/tutorials/all
opathy.html#Benjamin

Rush, the Allopath
"Benjamin Rush (1745-1813) was a member of the Continental Congress, a
signer of the Declaration of Independence, a combater of yellow fever,
the founder of psychiatry in America, and an obstinate believer in
miasmas and bloodletting. Rush was arguably the most famous and
influential American doctor of his time. He is, also, the classic
example of everything that is wrong with allopaths."

"Some allopaths, like Rush, used science, but none of them used the
scientific method in their practices."

To repeat, anybody can claim that they believe in science. I am sure
that Adolf Hitler could make such a claim since he believed in bringing
genocide into the new millennium on the mass scale using science.

The only thing that counts, dear morons, is applying the scientific
method.

You Geeks most certainly are NOT engaging in the scientific method, nor
are you furthering the noble high road of the scientific method.

You morons are engaging in slime-bucket tactics, that actually mocks
the high road of the scientific method.

Just my opinion, but even Steve Harris, MD has unwittingly support my
position.

You have my condolences.
Google knows your thoughts - 29 Sep 2005 03:03 GMT
I am...proving my point...babbling away...supporting...what
counts...sure...of...the high road of...my opinion...

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