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Medical Forum / General / General / September 2005Chimpanzee genome will be the tool to prove Stonethrowing theory
I knew the chimpanzee genome was being deciphered but I had no idea it would come just days after I discussed some Stonethrowing theory. --- Quoting AP news in part and with my comments preceded by (A.P.:)--- Scientists Decipher the Chimpanzee's DNA By MALCOLM RITTER, AP Science Writer Wed Aug 31, 9:40 PM ET NEW YORK - Scientists have deciphered the DNA of the chimpanzee, the closest living relative of humankind, and made comprehensive comparisons with the human genetic blueprint. It's a step toward finding a biological answer to a key question: What makes us human? >A.P.: Stonethrowing theory answers the question by saying that some 8 million years ago a prehuman primate had a mutation which gave it a behaviour of throwing rocks and stones. This throwing behaviour conferred much advantage to that individual and its DNA multiplied. Throwing would later create bipedalism and thus create the human species. So all we really need to find is the A,C,T,G that codes for the Rotator Cuff and the femur groove in humans and compare that bone region with chimpanzee. (snip) "We've got the catalog, now we just have to figure it out," said Dr. Robert Waterston of the University of Washington School of Medicine in Seattle. "It's not going to be one gene. It's going to be an accumulation of changes." >A.P.: I believe it is a location or region of the body specific to throwing such as the Rotator Cuff bones and muscles. So we find out what bones and muscles are specific to throwing and match those of human to chimpanzee. He is senior author of one of several related papers appearing in Thursday's issue of the journal Nature and being published online Thursday by the journal Science. In the papers, Waterston presents a draft of the newly deciphered sequence of the chimp genome, in which an international team of researchers identified virtually all the roughly 3 billion building blocks of chimp DNA. "It's a huge deal," said Dr. Francis Collins, director of the National Human Genome Research Institute, which provided some support for the project. "We now have the instruction book of our closest relative." (snip) While the DNA comparisons don't firmly identify specific differences that played a big role in producing humans, they do indicate promising areas, said Bruce Lahn, who studies human evolution genetics at the University of Chicago but didn't participate in the project. Lahn said the research refutes a few previous ideas while providing new and better evidence for others. Humans and chimps have evolved separately since splitting from a common ancestor about 6 million years ago, and their DNA remains highly similar - about 96 percent to almost 99 percent identical, depending on how the comparison is made. > A.P.: that number of 6 million years ago for the split is highly erroneous and scientists in this field should refrain from ever using it. I suspect it is closer to 8 million or 10 million years ago and not 6. (snip) Waterston and colleagues, for example, looked for genes that apparently have changed more quickly in humans than in chimps or rodents, indicating they might have been particularly important in human evolution. They found evidence of rapid change in some genes that regulate the activity of other genes, telling them when and in what tissues to become active, for example. >A.P. that is not a good plan-- looking at what changed quickly. Most important is changes of bone anatomy. Bones are the long term foundation of a species that dictate what a species can do and not do. (snipped) Svante Paabo of the Max Planck institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany, and colleagues report in the Science paper that genes active in the brain have changed more in the human lineage than in the chimp lineage. That wasn't the case for genes from other organs such as the heart and liver. >A.P. then it should not be difficult to find the genes that code for the Rotator Cuff and femur groove. (snip) --- end quoting AP news --- Archimedes Plutonium www.iw.net/~a_plutonium whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies I doubt if the rotator cuff of humans and chimps is that much different. The notable difference among all primates is the shallowness of the glenoid cavity. This is the only feature of the cuff itself that is likely to survive in fossil form. Throwing requires some different attachment of the larger humerus muscles and the relative size and shape of the points of attachment should be preserved in fossils. Finding specific genes for "the rotator cuff" is a bit difficult too. Many subtle and not so subtle changes in gentic expression come from single point mutations on HOX, master control of development, genes. > I doubt if the rotator cuff of humans and chimps is that much > different. The notable difference among all primates is the shallowness [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Many subtle and not so subtle changes in gentic expression come from > single point mutations on HOX, master control of development, genes. Thanks for the excellent tip. For years I have spent looking for the unique signature of throwing, separating it from that of treeclimbing and treeliving. Humans and chimps have rotator cuffs but if one is a thrower are there differences enough in the Rotator Cuff to tell which is the thrower and nonthrower. Perhaps the glenoid cavity is that signature for Throwing and can decide whether an individual threw rocks and stones, or not. I think there are many bones that can decide whether an individual was a thrower or not a thrower. And some bones are more easy to tell whether a thrower or not a thrower. It maybe the backbones themselves which act as a lever in the throwing motion. But I tend to think that the bones of the elbow and shoulder are the first ones to feel pain in extended throwing. And so I suspect the key signature bones of throwing are the elbow and shoulder bones. I wonder if the funny bone in the elbow was a adaption to throwing and away from treeswinging and treeliving. Is the funny bone in the elbow unique to Humans? Archimedes Plutonium www.iw.net/~a_plutonium whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies > > I doubt if the rotator cuff of humans and chimps is that much > > different. The notable difference among all primates is the shallowness [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > thrower are there differences enough in the Rotator Cuff to tell which > is the thrower and nonthrower. *If* one is a thrower? > Perhaps the glenoid cavity is that signature for Throwing and can > decide whether an individual threw rocks and stones, or not. Perhaps... ? > I think there are many bones that can decide whether an individual was > a thrower or not a thrower. And some bones are more easy to tell [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > away from treeswinging and treeliving. Is the funny bone in the elbow > unique to Humans? "I think... It maybe... I tend to think... I suspect... I wonder..." Not big on facts, are you Archi? http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/distract/ss.htm Care to respond to my other question, on your scientific credentials? Ross Macfarlane [...] > Not big on facts, are you Archi? > http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/distract/ss.htm > > Care to respond to my other question, on your scientific credentials? What were you saying about the "f'ing trolls..."? ;-) > Ross Macfarlane  Signature"You might be right but, people shouldn't buy it unless you can *demonstrate* it through logical reasoning and/or evidence and I just don't think you have done that." ---Algis Kuliukas 08/14/05 > [...] > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > What were you saying about the "f'ing trolls..."? ;-) I class Archi as more of a loon than a troll. The difference being he thinks what he's posting is on-topic, as opposed to those trolls promoting overtly religious or other agendas which are explicitly off-topic in SAP. Although ultimately they're both off the planet. To resurrect a phrase I coined some time ago, one which I'm rather proud of, in reference to another of our favourite loons: he's a "High-Orbit Satellite of the Planet of Reason"... Ross Macfarlane > To resurrect a phrase I coined some time ago, one which I'm > rather proud of, in reference to another of our favourite loons: > he's a "High-Orbit Satellite of the Planet of Reason"... I like his fake name, it shows a kind of pompass originality. >>I doubt if the rotator cuff of humans and chimps is that much >>different. The notable difference among all primates is the shallowness [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > whole entire Universe is just one big atom > where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies Don't chimps throw sh$t at each other? I do not remember how far back it was, whether months or years back when I wrote a post saying that to prove Stonethrowing theory we need a triangulation of data, not just a comparison of chimpanzee to humans since chimps throw primitively. But chimps definitely are not biped. Chimps are at a stage where our ancestors lived through where they threw but were still quadrapedal. Somewhere around Oreopithecus and Orrorin the throwing of Oreopithecus created a biped, and Orrorin is fully a Thrower and a biped. So we need the orangutan genome to triangulate human and chimp genomes. The orangutan is a non thrower and nonbiped. The chimp is a primitive thrower but non biped. So what is the latest news as to when the orangutan genome will be completed. All of which shows the importance of saving all the ape species endangered with extinction. Archimedes Plutonium www.iw.net/~a_plutonium whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies Now I am having a hard time of finding data on the glenoid cavity of nonthrowers such as orangutans and baboons and gorillas. Has anyone scientifically researched the glenoid cavity of all the apes and monkeys and compared them to humans? Archimedes Plutonium www.iw.net/~a_plutonium whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies |
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