Medical Forum / General / General / August 2005
Palpitations
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Kevin - 19 Jul 2005 01:55 GMT Greetings all,
I am a 45 year old white male, 5 11, 240lbs. I have had two tachycardia attacks in the past 6 months bad enough for a visit to the ER to be on the safe side. I have had several ECGs, extensive blood tests, chest X-rays, nuclear medicine treadmill test (not only passed that, but with flying colors from what I gather), echocardiogram, thyroid test, and a two week event monitor. All tests negative, except for High Normal to Stage 1 Hypertension for which I've been given Avilide and a slight LVH (heart enlargement) detected by the echo, which my internist expected because of my high blood pressure.
I have occasional panic attacks which of course cause palpitations and tachycardia. But I also get palpitations without my usual panic attack symptoms (feeling of impending doom, breathing deeply, pacing back and forth et cetera), or being in a stressful situation. These episodes usually come on gradually rather than suddenly. Usually I start to feel warm and flushed and then become aware that I can feel my heart laboring (basically the same feeling I'd get walking up hill). My pulse will go from the 80's to the 90's and sometimes to the 100's (120 is the highest it ever gets, but that's rare). At these times I feel a little light headed, breathing is a little labored with slightly tight chest, somewhat fatigued (again, exactly the way I'd feel trudging up hill). Sometimes this is chronic over a period of days, other times it's mild and passes after an hour or two, and sometimes I go days or weeks with no palpitations at all.
A board certified cardiologist I went to says I have no cardiovascular disease or abnormal heart rhythms. He even said that that my LVH was too insignificant to cause any concern. He said that my palpitations are anxiety related. My internist had also leaned towards this diagnosis and even suggested that I give Zoloft a try. But I'm wondering if I should just to let it go at that.
I have come across something called pulmonary embolism which causes these symptoms, and I did have low grade respiratory congestion and discomfort with occasional coughing during the entire time I had my last (worst) three week palpitation occurrence. Now the repertory problems did start with typical cold symptoms (and the blood test done in the ER showed a couple of deficiencies which I'm told are indicative of someone coming down with a cold), but the low-grade wheez, cough et cetera dragged on for three weeks (along with periodic low-grade sore throat and or low-grade nasal congestion) and then relapsed again for a few more days. Both episodes seemed to have begun and subsided at about the same time. For the last few weeks my breathing has been excellent. Likewise, except for occasional brief usually mild palpitations, my heart rate has been normal.
I will admit that I've been experiencing these symptoms off and on for several years now untreated, it's only within the past few months that it's gotten bad enough for me to be provoked into seeking medical attention.
Does anyone think I should pursue this with any further tests?
Thank you
Ref. 103004
menu boy - 19 Jul 2005 03:45 GMT > Greetings all, > [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > Does anyone think I should pursue this with any further tests? I would talk to a doctor that specializes in general anxiety disorder or panic disorder. Your GP can even prescribe medicines like SSRIs or benzos. Zoloft may work for you or you may have to try a few SSRIs before you find one that works. I was on 4 different ones before I found that Paxil worked the best for me. All those symptoms you described disappeared after a few weeks.
ironjustice@aol.com - 19 Jul 2005 04:16 GMT >Does anyone think I should pursue this with any further tests?< Rev Esp Cardiol. 2001 Nov;54(11):1328-31. Related Articles, Links
[Ventricular tachycardia and cardiac hemochromatosis]
[Article in Spanish]
Luis Morinigo J, Martin Luengo C, Ledesma C, Arribas A, Nieto AA, Rodriguez J.
Servicio de Cardiologia, Hospital Universitario, Salamanca. jlmori@eresmas.com
Hemochromatosis is characterized by an excessive iron deposit in different tissues. Cardiac involvement may be observed in one third of the patients due to hemochromatosis and occurs as a consequence of ferritin accumulation in the heart which on one hand induces alterations in systolic and diastolic ventricular function and on the other hand, an arrythmogenic substrate. The clinical manifestations can be indistinctly related to atrial tachyarrhythmia, ventricular tachyarrhythmia, atrio-ventricular blockade and congestive heart failure, with the first being the most frequent. We present the case of one patient with secondary hemochromatosis to repeated transfusions due to sideroblastic anemia with cardiac involvement, whose initial heart manifestations were recurrent atrial tachyarrhythmia and sustained ventricular tachycardia with syncope for which an automatic defibrillator was implanted.
Publication Types: Case Reports
PMID: 11707244 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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GFX - 19 Jul 2005 05:03 GMT ironjustice - while that is an interesting little article, it is not really applicable to the situation, as described by the poster. If he were having atrial or ventricular arrhythmias, or AV blocks, they would certainly show up on his "negative" serial EKG's and "two week event monitor". The clinical signs of congestive heart failure would not likely be missed by any physician, much less a cardiologist.
G
> >Does anyone think I should pursue this with any further tests?< > [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > DEAD PEOPLE WALKING > http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking Vic - 19 Jul 2005 05:18 GMT > Greetings all, > [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > > Ref. 103004 Hi Kevin. I know too well about the palpitations. Mine are definitely anxiety related and my doctor put me on a beta blocker, atenolol, to slow it down. It has worked wonderfully. I rarely have them anymore. Give you meds a chance to work. Sometimes it takes weeks before you feel better. Good luck to you.
Vic
GFX - 19 Jul 2005 05:53 GMT Kevin: Lose some weight, now. Also, learn all you can about deep vein thrombosis and varicose veins, particularly if you have any of these varicosities in your legs. The chances are very, very good that your palpitations are anxiety symptoms, but I think it's irresponsible to say unequivocally that they are, especially in light of the fact that you have hypertension and left ventricular hypertrophy, regardless of the cause. Keep an eye on saturated fat intake, cholesterol screening yearly as well as HDL/LDL ratio etc.. Consider anti-embolic socks (Jobst makes very good ones) if you do actually have any vein varicosity, or even leg fatigue at the end of the day - they won't hurt you, and can make the day a whole lot better. Knee high ones are generally sufficient - get the prescription kind from your doctor, if for no other reason than you can usually get insurance reimbursement that way. The cause, incidentally for pulmonary embolism is usually vein thrombosis. I don't *think* you have that, but I don't know that you don't either.
As much as I'm starting to dislike making medicine suggestions (in general), do you think your doctor would do a brief trial of low-dose benzodiazepines? If your palpitations stopped while on Xanax, it would be strongly suggestive (but not diagnostic) that you are in the vast majority of the "worried well". Plenty of benzo prescriptions are written by cardiologists, btw. Hell, I got one from an ENT doc once, and it solved my throat problem 100% !! For people here to be telling you that you definitely have this or that, or what meds you ought to be on - come on folks, have you examined this person? Do you know their medical history? Looked at the lab reports? Anxious people can definitely have real medical problems - to not recognize that is folly. I once watched a surgeon call a shrink into a patient's room for a psych consult due to anxiety. The patient was definitely anxious, but also definitely in full-blown congestive failure - the shrink walked out after a very brief examination and said "the treatment for this patient's anxiety is digoxin, lasix and two liters of oxygen per nasal cannula". The surgeon was pissed off, realizing he had not bothered to really examine the woman, and that now everyone knew it. Moral: Anxiety is not always primarily psychogenic in origin. (The lady couldn't breathe, of course she was anxious!)
G
ps: Kevin, if you feel your "heart laboring" when walking uphill, I'm inclined to suggest that you ask your physician about a gradually staged cardiovascular fitness program. Walking is fine, requires no real special equipment, can be done almost anywhere, and no special training is required in almost all cases.
> Greetings all, > [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > > Ref. 103004 dcholiman@ev1.net - 19 Jul 2005 20:15 GMT ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Aren't palpitations and leg muscle cramps the first indicators of low potassium in the blood ? DCH ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ironjustice@aol.com - 20 Jul 2005 04:16 GMT 19. Heart.-Palpitation: < from least motion; > walking slowly; in onanists; after loss of fluids.-Venous murmurs.-Hypertrophy.
23. Lower Limbs.-Tearings, with violent lancination, from the coxo-femoral joint to the tibia, < in evening in bed, and during repose.-Paralytic weakness and numbness in the thighs.-Weakness in the knees, so that they yield, with uneasiness of the feet.-Varices on the legs.-Stiffness, traction and heaviness in the legs.-Swelling of the knees and of the joints of the feet.-Swelling of the feet, with drawing pain, esp. on beginning to walk.-Cramps in the calves of the legs, the soles of the feet, and the toes.-The toes are contracted.
http://www.homeoint.org/clarke/f/ferrum.htm
Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking
Kevin - 20 Jul 2005 04:53 GMT Wow, thanks for all the replies. In response to what I've read so far let me add that; I'm not really all that concerned with having an anxiety syndrome if that's all that's causing my symptoms. I do have a Xanax prescription and when I feel an actual panic attack coming on, I pop one and calm down pretty quickly. However, Xanax does not quell my palpitations if I'm already feeling calm when they occur. Other than that, I really don't want to take any other medications as my non-panic palpitation episodes are becoming more infrequent and less severe (at least so far).
The pulmonary embolism idea was gained from something posted by an MD on a discussion board. I have looked into and at images of deep vein thrombosis and varicose veins, and I seriously doubt that is my problem. I can't even see the veins in my legs, much less any dark blue twists or protruding knots.
Also, when I talked about heart labor walking up hill, I meant a really steep long hill or climbing flights of stairs. We all get those symptoms; feeling overheated, breathing somewhat labored, heart laboring. Even if you run in marathons, you'll still feel that way if you climb a steep enough hill or walk up enough stairs, it's perfectly natural. What's not natural is to be feeing that way when you're sitting on the couch watching baseball. Also, it only takes a few minutes to cool back to normal after such exertion, whereas with my episodes it can take several hours.
I do a lot of walking, it's always been one of my favorite pastimes, and I've never experienced any sort of cramps or discomfort. My first ER blood test did show a slight potassium deficiency, but not the others.
Thank you all again for all the input so far. I've found it very useful, and I'm sure others googling the archives in the future will as well. And believe me, I am losing weight.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 20 Jul 2005 11:24 GMT > Wow, thanks for all the replies. In response to what I've read so far > let me add that; I'm not really all that concerned with having an [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > as well. > And believe me, I am losing weight. Glad to read this.
In Christ's love and service,
Andrew
-- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist
** Suggested Reading: (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?G1D5217EA (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?W13A4250B (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 20 Jul 2005 03:51 GMT > Greetings all, > > I am a 45 year old white male, 5 11, 240lbs. You might be as much as 85 lbs heavier than ideal. Would suggest you ack your doctor to supervise your use of the 2PD-OMER Approach to lose weight safely and permanently:
http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp
> I have had two tachycardia attacks in the past 6 months bad enough for > a visit to the ER to be on the safe side. I have had several ECGs, [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > Does anyone think I should pursue this with any further tests? Would suggest you rely on your internist's advice.
> Thank you You are welcome, Kevin :-)
In Christ's love and service,
Andrew
-- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist
** Suggested Reading: (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?G1D5217EA (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?W13A4250B (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
Peter Jason - 01 Aug 2005 09:23 GMT I had a similar condition and the cardiologist made me wear a halter (a portable ECM) for 24hr.
This captured the data and the cardiologist saw this and said I had "Ventricular Taccarcardia".
I was refererrd to an ElectroCardiologist who booked me into hospital for an "Electrocardial study/exam"
This is done under full anaesthetic, and a probe with electrodes is passed up the femoral artery into one side of the heart.
Once there, the surgeon explores the inside of the heart looking for a mass of tissue that is emmiting electical signals which conflict with normal operation.
Once found, this tissure is burned away with an electric probe.
In my case he couldn't find it, and later said I probably had "Atrial taccarcidia" instead.
I asked him why he didn't fix this and he said that this was a more serious operation because he would have to bore through the internal heart wall.
I asked him why the halter didn't show I had the atrial thing, and he said for that to be indicated I should have worn a 12-lead ECM instead (instead of the 4-lead unit)- which are not obtainable in a portable unit, evidently.
He then prescribed 80mg of "Sotalol Hydrochloride" per day, half in the morning and half at night.
These little pills worked so well that I cut the dose back to 40mg/day once in the morning.
The surgeon gave me a copy of a paper he had written about the atrial thing, and it does look a dangerous operation.
So beware of 4-lead halters and try for a 12-lead one. And be sure the surgeon remembers the type of halter you wore and the trace it produced and check with him while you are on the operating table - before you go under.
I speak from experience.
> Greetings all, > [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > > Ref. 103004 dcholiman@ev1.net - 02 Aug 2005 05:06 GMT ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Wow. That's a life-saving bit of advice. The 4 lead halter reads the combined output but only indicates the ventricular chamber for electric abnormalities.
Peter Jason - 02 Aug 2005 07:22 GMT Yeah well, we live & learn.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Wow. That's a life-saving bit of advice. > The 4 lead halter reads the combined output > but only indicates the ventricular > chamber for electric abnormalities.
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