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Medical Forum / General / General / August 2005

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Palpitations

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Kevin - 19 Jul 2005 01:55 GMT
Greetings all,

I am a 45 year old white male, 5 11, 240lbs.
I have had two tachycardia attacks in the past 6 months bad enough for
a visit to the ER to be on the safe side. I have had several ECGs,
extensive blood tests, chest X-rays, nuclear medicine treadmill test
(not only passed that, but with flying colors from what I gather),
echocardiogram, thyroid test, and a two week event monitor. All tests
negative, except for High Normal to Stage 1 Hypertension for which I've
been given Avilide and a slight LVH (heart enlargement) detected by the
echo, which my internist expected because of my high blood pressure.

I have occasional panic attacks which of course cause palpitations and
tachycardia.
But I also get palpitations without my usual panic attack symptoms
(feeling of impending doom, breathing deeply, pacing back and forth et
cetera), or being in a stressful situation. These episodes usually come
on gradually rather than suddenly. Usually I start to feel warm and
flushed and then become aware that I can feel my heart laboring
(basically the same feeling I'd get walking up hill). My pulse will
go from the 80's to the 90's and sometimes to the 100's (120 is the
highest it ever gets, but that's rare). At these times I feel a
little light headed, breathing is a little labored with slightly tight
chest, somewhat fatigued (again, exactly the way I'd feel trudging up
hill). Sometimes this is chronic over a period of days, other times
it's mild and passes after an hour or two, and sometimes I go days or
weeks with no palpitations at all.

A board certified cardiologist I went to says I have no cardiovascular
disease or abnormal heart rhythms. He even said that that my LVH was
too insignificant to cause any concern. He said that my palpitations
are anxiety related. My internist had also leaned towards this
diagnosis and even suggested that I give Zoloft a try.
But I'm wondering if I should just to let it go at that.

I have come across something called pulmonary embolism which causes
these symptoms, and I did have low grade respiratory congestion and
discomfort with occasional coughing during the entire time I had my
last (worst) three week palpitation occurrence. Now the repertory
problems did start with typical cold symptoms (and the blood test done
in the ER showed a couple of deficiencies which I'm told are
indicative of someone coming down with a cold), but the low-grade
wheez, cough et cetera dragged on for three weeks (along with periodic
low-grade sore throat and or low-grade nasal congestion) and then
relapsed again for a few more days. Both episodes seemed to have begun
and subsided at about the same time. For the last few weeks my
breathing has been excellent. Likewise, except for occasional brief
usually mild palpitations, my heart rate has been normal.

I will admit that I've been experiencing these symptoms off and on
for several years now untreated, it's only within the past few months
that it's gotten bad enough for me to be provoked into seeking medical
attention.

Does anyone think I should pursue this with any further tests?

Thank you

Ref. 103004
menu boy - 19 Jul 2005 03:45 GMT
> Greetings all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
>
> Does anyone think I should pursue this with any further tests?

I would talk to a doctor that specializes in general anxiety disorder or panic
disorder.  Your GP can even prescribe medicines like SSRIs or benzos.
Zoloft may work for you or you may have to try a few SSRIs before you
find one that works.  I was on 4 different ones before I found that Paxil
worked the best for me.  All those symptoms you described disappeared
after a few weeks.
ironjustice@aol.com - 19 Jul 2005 04:16 GMT
>Does anyone think I should pursue this with any further tests?<

Rev Esp Cardiol. 2001 Nov;54(11):1328-31. Related Articles, Links

[Ventricular tachycardia and cardiac hemochromatosis]

[Article in Spanish]

Luis Morinigo J, Martin Luengo C, Ledesma C, Arribas A, Nieto AA,
Rodriguez J.

Servicio de Cardiologia, Hospital Universitario, Salamanca.
jlmori@eresmas.com

Hemochromatosis is characterized by an excessive iron deposit in
different tissues. Cardiac involvement may be observed in one third of
the patients due to hemochromatosis and occurs as a consequence of
ferritin accumulation in the heart which on one hand induces
alterations in systolic and diastolic ventricular function and on the
other hand, an arrythmogenic substrate. The clinical manifestations can
be indistinctly related to atrial tachyarrhythmia, ventricular
tachyarrhythmia, atrio-ventricular blockade and congestive heart
failure, with the first being the most frequent. We present the case of
one patient with secondary hemochromatosis to repeated transfusions due
to sideroblastic anemia with cardiac involvement, whose initial heart
manifestations were recurrent atrial tachyarrhythmia and sustained
ventricular tachycardia with syncope for which an automatic
defibrillator was implanted.

Publication Types:
Case Reports

PMID: 11707244 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who loves ya.
Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore!
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking
GFX - 19 Jul 2005 05:03 GMT
ironjustice - while that is an interesting little article, it is not really
applicable to the situation, as described by the poster.  If he were having
atrial or ventricular arrhythmias, or AV blocks, they would certainly show
up on his "negative" serial EKG's and "two week event monitor".  The
clinical signs of congestive heart failure would not likely be missed by any
physician, much less a cardiologist.

G

> >Does anyone think I should pursue this with any further tests?<
>
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
> DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
> http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking
Vic - 19 Jul 2005 05:18 GMT
> Greetings all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>
> Ref. 103004

Hi Kevin.  I know too well about the palpitations.  Mine are definitely
anxiety related and my doctor put me on a beta blocker, atenolol, to slow it
down.  It has worked wonderfully.  I rarely have them anymore.  Give you
meds a chance to work.  Sometimes it takes weeks before you feel better.
Good luck to you.

Vic
GFX - 19 Jul 2005 05:53 GMT
Kevin:  Lose some weight, now.  Also, learn all you can about deep vein
thrombosis and varicose veins, particularly if you have any of these
varicosities in your legs.  The chances are very, very good that your
palpitations are anxiety symptoms, but I think it's irresponsible to say
unequivocally that they are, especially in light of the fact that you have
hypertension and left ventricular hypertrophy, regardless of the cause.
Keep an eye on saturated fat intake, cholesterol screening yearly as well as
HDL/LDL ratio etc..  Consider anti-embolic socks (Jobst makes very good
ones) if you do actually have any vein varicosity, or even leg fatigue at
the end of the day - they won't hurt you, and can make the day a whole lot
better.  Knee high ones are generally sufficient - get the prescription kind
from your doctor, if for no other reason than you can usually get insurance
reimbursement that way.  The cause, incidentally for pulmonary embolism is
usually vein thrombosis.  I don't *think* you have that, but I don't know
that you don't either.

As much as I'm starting to dislike making medicine suggestions (in general),
do you think your doctor would do a brief trial of low-dose benzodiazepines?
If your palpitations stopped while on Xanax, it would be strongly suggestive
(but not diagnostic) that you are in the vast majority of the "worried
well".   Plenty of benzo prescriptions are written by cardiologists, btw.
Hell, I got one from an ENT doc once, and it solved my throat problem 100%
!!  For people here to be telling you that you definitely have this or that,
or what meds you ought to be on - come on folks, have you examined this
person?  Do you know their medical history?  Looked at the lab reports?
Anxious people can definitely have real medical problems - to not recognize
that is folly.  I once watched a surgeon call a shrink into a patient's room
for a psych consult due to anxiety.  The patient was definitely anxious, but
also definitely in full-blown congestive failure - the shrink walked out
after a very brief examination and said "the treatment for this patient's
anxiety is digoxin, lasix and two liters of oxygen per nasal cannula".  The
surgeon was pissed off, realizing he had not bothered to really examine the
woman, and that now everyone knew it.  Moral:  Anxiety is not always
primarily psychogenic in origin.  (The lady couldn't breathe, of course she
was anxious!)

G

ps:  Kevin, if you feel your "heart laboring" when walking uphill, I'm
inclined to suggest that you ask your physician about a gradually staged
cardiovascular fitness program.  Walking is fine, requires no real special
equipment, can be done almost anywhere, and no special training is required
in almost all cases.

> Greetings all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>
> Ref. 103004
dcholiman@ev1.net - 19 Jul 2005 20:15 GMT
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Aren't palpitations and leg muscle cramps the first
indicators of low potassium in the blood ?
DCH
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ironjustice@aol.com - 20 Jul 2005 04:16 GMT
19. Heart.-Palpitation: < from least motion; > walking slowly; in
onanists; after loss of fluids.-Venous murmurs.-Hypertrophy.

23. Lower Limbs.-Tearings, with violent lancination, from the
coxo-femoral joint to the tibia, < in evening in bed, and during
repose.-Paralytic weakness and numbness in the thighs.-Weakness in the
knees, so that they yield, with uneasiness of the feet.-Varices on the
legs.-Stiffness, traction and heaviness in the legs.-Swelling of the
knees and of the joints of the feet.-Swelling of the feet, with drawing
pain, esp. on beginning to walk.-Cramps in the calves of the legs, the
soles of the feet, and the toes.-The toes are contracted.

http://www.homeoint.org/clarke/f/ferrum.htm

Who loves ya.
Tom
Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com
Man Is A Herbivore!
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore
DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking
Kevin - 20 Jul 2005 04:53 GMT
Wow, thanks for all the replies. In response to what I've read so far
let me add that; I'm not really all that concerned with having an
anxiety syndrome if that's all that's causing my symptoms. I do
have a Xanax prescription and when I feel an actual panic attack coming
on, I pop one and calm down pretty quickly. However, Xanax does not
quell my palpitations if I'm already feeling calm when they occur.
Other than that, I really don't want to take any other medications as
my non-panic palpitation episodes are becoming more infrequent and less
severe (at least so far).

The pulmonary embolism idea was gained from something posted by an MD
on a discussion board. I have looked into and at images of deep vein
thrombosis and varicose veins, and I seriously doubt that is my
problem. I can't even see the veins in my legs, much less any dark
blue twists or protruding knots.

Also, when I talked about heart labor walking up hill, I meant a really
steep long hill or climbing flights of stairs. We all get those
symptoms; feeling overheated, breathing somewhat labored, heart
laboring. Even if you run in marathons, you'll still feel that way if
you climb a steep enough hill or walk up enough stairs, it's
perfectly natural. What's not natural is to be feeing that way when
you're sitting on the couch watching baseball. Also, it only takes a
few minutes to cool back to normal after such exertion, whereas with my
episodes it can take several hours.

I do a lot of walking, it's always been one of my favorite pastimes,
and I've never experienced any sort of cramps or discomfort. My first
ER blood test did show a slight potassium deficiency, but not the
others.

Thank you all again for all the input so far. I've found it very
useful, and I'm sure others googling the archives in the future will
as well.
And believe me, I am losing weight.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 20 Jul 2005 11:24 GMT
> Wow, thanks for all the replies. In response to what I've read so far
> let me add that; I'm not really all that concerned with having an
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> as well.
> And believe me, I am losing weight.

Glad to read this.

In Christ's love and service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?G1D5217EA
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?W13A4250B
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
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(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
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Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 20 Jul 2005 03:51 GMT
> Greetings all,
>
> I am a 45 year old white male, 5 11, 240lbs.

You might be as much as 85 lbs heavier than ideal.  Would suggest you
ack your doctor to supervise your use of the 2PD-OMER Approach to lose
weight safely and permanently:

http://www.HeartMDPhD.com/wtloss.asp

> I have had two tachycardia attacks in the past 6 months bad enough for
> a visit to the ER to be on the safe side. I have had several ECGs,
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
>
> Does anyone think I should pursue this with any further tests?

Would suggest you rely on your internist's advice.

> Thank you

You are welcome, Kevin :-)


In Christ's love and service,

Andrew

--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist

**
Suggested Reading:
(1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?G1D5217EA
(2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?W13A4250B
(3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A
(4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A
(5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A
(6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A
(7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
Peter Jason - 01 Aug 2005 09:23 GMT
I had a similar condition and the cardiologist made me wear a halter (a
portable ECM) for 24hr.

This captured the data and the cardiologist saw this and said I had
"Ventricular Taccarcardia".

I was refererrd to an ElectroCardiologist who booked me into hospital for an
"Electrocardial study/exam"

This is done under full anaesthetic, and a probe with electrodes is passed
up the femoral artery into one side of the heart.

Once there, the surgeon explores the inside of the heart looking for a mass
of tissue that is emmiting electical signals which conflict with normal
operation.

Once found, this tissure is burned away with an electric probe.

In my case he couldn't find it, and later said I probably had "Atrial
taccarcidia" instead.

I asked him why he didn't fix this and he said that this was a more serious
operation because he would have to bore through the internal heart wall.

I asked him why the halter didn't show I had the atrial thing, and he said
for that to be indicated I should have worn a 12-lead ECM instead (instead
of the 4-lead unit)- which are not obtainable in a portable unit, evidently.

He then prescribed 80mg of "Sotalol Hydrochloride" per day, half in the
morning and half at night.

These little pills worked so well that I cut the dose back to 40mg/day once
in the morning.

The surgeon gave me a copy of a paper he had written about the atrial thing,
and it does look a dangerous operation.

So beware of 4-lead halters and try for a 12-lead one.  And be sure the
surgeon remembers the type of halter you wore and the trace it produced and
check with him while you are on the operating table - before you go under.

I speak from experience.

> Greetings all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>
> Ref. 103004
dcholiman@ev1.net - 02 Aug 2005 05:06 GMT
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wow.  That's a life-saving bit of advice.
The 4 lead halter reads the combined output
but only indicates  the ventricular
chamber for electric abnormalities.
Peter Jason - 02 Aug 2005 07:22 GMT
Yeah well, we live & learn.

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Wow.  That's a life-saving bit of advice.
> The 4 lead halter reads the combined output
> but only indicates  the ventricular
> chamber for electric abnormalities.
 
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