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Medical Forum / General / General / July 2005

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To Sell Drugs, Companies Rely on Doctors

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MrPepper11 - 15 Jul 2005 18:01 GMT
July 15, 2005
To Sell Their Drugs, Companies Increasingly Rely on Doctors
For $750 and Up, Physicians Tell Peers About Products; Talks Called
Educational
Dr. Pitts's Busy Speaking Tour
By SCOTT HENSLEY and BARBARA MARTINEZ
Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

NEW YORK -- On a recent Wednesday evening, neurologist Lawrence Newman
spoke to a dozen doctors in a private alcove off the soaring dining
room of Guastavino's and made the case that migraine headaches are
seriously underdiagnosed.

Migraine treatment "should be bread and butter for primary-care
doctors," he told attendees at the midtown Manhattan restaurant. While
patients might say they're having a sinus headache, there's a good
chance it's actually a migraine and can be treated with a migraine
drug, Dr. Newman said.

It was a message friendly to migraine-drug makers, and no wonder: The
sponsor of the talk was GlaxoSmithKline PLC, maker of the best-selling
migraine pill Imitrex. Glaxo picked up the tab for dinner, paid Dr.
Newman a fee, supplied some of his slides, and scattered Imitrex
notepads on the table.

Drug makers have seized upon an effective tool for getting their
message across to doctors: other doctors.

Across the U.S., thousands of doctors such as Dr. Newman, an associate
professor of clinical neurology at Albert Einstein College of Medicine,
have signed up as part-time lecturers for drug companies. At small
meetings, often over lunch or dinner, these physician-pitchmen tell
their peers about diseases and the drugs to treat them, often pocketing
$750 or more from the sponsor. Dr. Newman declined to discuss his fee.

In 2004, 237,000 meetings and talks sponsored by pharmaceutical
companies featured doctors as speakers, compared with 134,000 meetings
led by company sales representatives, according to market researcher
Verispan LLC of Yardley, Pa. In 1998, events featuring sales reps and
physicians were about equal at just over 60,000 each, Verispan says.

The growing use of talks by doctors comes as drug makers face criticism
over other sales tactics. Direct-to-consumer advertising has drawn fire
and some companies are voluntarily restricting the practice. The
industry's nearly 100,000 salespeople in the U.S. are facing resistance
from doctors who complain about being besieged in their offices. Drug
maker Wyeth plans to cut its main sales force, which calls on
primary-care doctors, by as much as 30% this year.

Companies formerly curried favor with doctors by taking them on free
golf outings or filling up their cars with a tank of gas in exchange
for listening to a sales pitch. But a voluntary marketing code adopted
by the largest drug companies three years ago barred such inducements.

Hiring a doctor as a speaker and providing a free meal for the
attendees is still acceptable -- and, data suggest, highly effective.
An internal study done by Merck & Co. several years ago calculated the
"return on investment" from doctor-led discussion groups was almost
double the return on meetings led by the company's own sales force.

Drug makers and the doctors they sponsor say the talks are educational.
Dr. Newman, the speaker at the Guastavino's dinner, said he refuses to
give talks centered on a single drug or those he considers promotional.
When one doctor at the dinner interrupted with a question and said the
talk was really about Imitrex, Dr. Newman smiled and disagreed. He said
doctors should choose a medicine to match their patients' condition,
then rattled off the generic and brand names of Imitrex and six rival
drugs.

Dr. Newman said he gives about three industry-sponsored talks a month,
usually during the day rather than at dinner. He said he tells
pharmaceutical companies, "Your job is to sell the drug and my job is
to educate."

Mary Anne Rhyne, a spokeswoman for Glaxo, the second-largest drug
maker, says: "The purpose of these events is to share information with
health-care professionals about disease, diagnosis and treatment,
including the use of our medicines." Glaxo makes no secret of its
sponsorship of the events: Its sales representatives give out written
invitations with the Glaxo name on them.

Those who question the talks say drug companies are bombarding doctors
with one-sided information through the seemingly neutral medium of
independent speakers who often have prestigious affiliations. "An awful
lot of the doctors in the audience are naive about the fact that these
are really sales talks," says Jerry Avorn, a professor of medicine at
Harvard Medical School and author of a recent book that criticized drug
companies' marketing.

Also, speakers who make thousands of dollars in fees from drug
companies aren't required to disclose their side job to patients,
although they are expected to disclose their ties in scientific papers.

Training Sessions

Some critics see a problem not only with talks such as the one Dr.
Newman gave but also with the sessions at which companies train their
doctor-speakers. Steven Bernstein, an internist at the University of
Michigan Health System in Ann Arbor, thinks drug makers may bring more
doctors to speaker training than they need because the training is
itself excellent advertising. Doctors are invited, says Dr. Bernstein,
to "try to convince them to utilize these products, and second, to use
them as a marketing arm for the firm's products to their colleagues."

The drug industry's voluntary marketing code says companies should
train speakers and consultants only if they intend to use them. The
code responds to criticism of a practice popular in the 1990s under
which companies would give doctors an all-expenses-paid trip in
exchange for a brief "consulting" opinion about the company's drug.
Scott Lassman, assistant general counsel at PhRMA, the drug trade
group, says he believes companies are observing the code.

Some doctors have earned considerable sums from their moonlighting as
speakers. Subir Roy, a gynecologist who teaches at the University of
Southern California, received $61,250 in fees and an additional $11,117
for expenses in 2002 from Wyeth, according to a list compiled by Wyeth
and submitted by Dr. Roy to the U.S. District Court in Phoenix. During
that year he spoke 53 times about Prempro and Premarin, Wyeth's drugs
to ease the symptoms of menopause. The drugs were in the news that year
because a big federal study suggested Prempro could increase the risk
of heart attack and stroke in women.

The data about Dr. Roy emerged after a former Wyeth sales
representative filed suit against the company, saying it failed to stop
Dr. Roy from making unwelcome sexual advances on her. Dr. Roy denies
doing anything improper. The former sales rep, Anissa Groves, alleges
that Wyeth fired her because it didn't want to jeopardize its ties with
Dr. Roy. A Wyeth spokesman, Chris Garland, said the company treated Ms.
Groves appropriately throughout her employment and that her departure,
nearly two years after her allegations about Dr. Roy, was unrelated to
her complaint.

In a December 2004 deposition, Dr. Roy said he no longer spoke for
Wyeth but gave talks for several other drug makers in 2004 including
Pfizer Inc., Merck, Johnson & Johnson and Novartis AG. He said then
that he maintains no private practice and relies on speaking to
supplement his salary from USC.

In an interview, Dr. Roy says, "My interest is in dissemination of
accurate information." Wyeth's Mr. Garland says talks by speakers such
as Dr. Roy are intended to "educate health-care providers with
information about Wyeth products" and the diseases they treat.

David Pitts, an internist in Grants, N.M., says he speaks about once a
month on behalf of pharmaceutical companies, less than he used to. "You
have to figure all your time traveling and going through airports. Once
you average that in, it can end up being not nearly as lucrative as you
might think," Dr. Pitts says.

Dr. Pitts was paid by Merck to speak at 134 events in 1999 related to
Zocor, Merck's anticholesterol drug, according to an internal Merck
document titled "Speaker Utilization as of 12/29/99." Other Merck
documents say the maximum payments for the types of talks Dr. Pitts
gave ranged from $1,500 to $2,000, suggesting he could have made
$200,000 or more from Merck in that year. Dr. Pitts declined to
estimate his income from Merck but says, "I was a popular speaker and I
had trouble saying no when reps asked."

In a Merck slide presentation dated December 2001, two Merck employees
observed that doctors who attended lectures or more intimate
roundtable-type discussions were much more likely to increase their
prescribing of certain medications than those who spent time with a
Merck sales representative.

According to the document, doctors who attended a lecture by another
doctor wrote an additional $623.55 worth of prescriptions for the
painkiller Vioxx over a 12-month period compared with doctors who
didn't attend. Doctors who participated in the more intimate
discussions wrote an additional $717.53 worth of prescriptions for
Vioxx, which Merck pulled from the market last year over concerns about
cardiovascular side effects. That compared to an increase of only
$165.87 in Vioxx prescriptions by doctors who attended a meeting with a
salesperson.

Return on Investment

After factoring in the extra cost of hiring a doctor to speak, Merck
calculated that the "return on investment" of the doctor-led discussion
group was 3.66 times the investment, versus 1.96 times for a meeting
with a sales representative. The document concluded that peer
discussion groups led by doctors "provide the best return on investment
for A-rated physicians," an internal term for doctors who write a lot
of prescriptions. "A-rated physicians are not responsive" to meetings
led by sales representatives, it said.

Merck declined to discuss the document's conclusions but in a written
statement the company says its policy has always been to supply
"accurate and balanced" information to doctors. "One way Merck provides
such information is through physician speakers...," the statement says.

While the total number of company-sponsored doctor talks is rising,
both Merck and Wyeth say they have taken steps to rely less extensively
on individual speakers. Doctors speaking on Merck's behalf now do so an
average of five to 10 times a year, the company says. At Wyeth,
speakers can't appear more than 25 times or earn more than $25,000
giving talks each year.

Companies say they're putting in caps to avoid the appearance that
they're trying to influence any individual doctor's choice of drugs
with outsized speaking fees. Several cases brought by the U.S.
government against drug companies in the past have involved allegations
that companies paid doctors in exchange for prescribing drugs.

Meanwhile, companies are stepping up training of new speakers. Pfizer
trained hundreds of speakers last year to help the company launch
Caduet, a single pill containing blood-pressure reducer Norvasc and
cholesterol-lowering Lipitor.

One of those trained was Dr. Bernstein of the University of Michigan
Health System. He is active in efforts to counter the pitches of
drug-company salespeople by telling doctors and pharmacists at his
organization about generic drugs and other alternatives. He says he
accepted an invitation to be trained to talk about Caduet in order to
learn more about his opponents' strategy. About 185 doctors attended
the session at the Omni Mandalay Hotel in Dallas in April 2004.

For attending a welcome dinner and reception on Friday night, and 5½
hours of training plus lunch the next day, Dr. Bernstein earned a $750
fee. Under the terms of the invitation, he agreed to give at least one
talk afterward, for which he would have been paid another $750. Pfizer
provided him with a deck of PowerPoint slides for presentations. A
Pfizer sales rep was supposed to make arrangements for the talk.

But Dr. Bernstein said he was never approached to fulfill that part of
the bargain, fueling his suspicion that companies may be training more
speakers than they need. Pfizer confirms that it is training more
speakers than it used to, but a spokeswoman, Mariann Caprino, says:
"The majority of the speakers that we have trained are used and used
often." She adds: "We would never knowingly train them and not use
them."
Dan - 16 Jul 2005 01:37 GMT
Drug companies are using Doctors to push newly patented drugs over
older more tested drugs.  Why?  MORE Profit, and larger market cap for
stock market investers.  The Docs get $ perks $ and that is one of
several factors driving insurance costs skyward.

Pasted some of your article @
http://debunkbigpharma.blognation.us/blog/_archives/2005/7/15/1034750.html
Wordsmith - 16 Jul 2005 04:35 GMT
Doctors are legal drug pushers.  

W : (
bat - 16 Jul 2005 14:35 GMT
I wonder, is there any source where the doctors get unbiased information?
considering that medical journals are probably as depending on ads as all
others, and it would be very surprising if drug companies did not figure to
pay the fees to the authors or "serious" articles as well... is there a
place that might be trusted, and information coming not from pharma
prostitutes? and even if such sources exist, how many doctors are using
them?

One illustration is the statement that diet fiber is good for health - a
100% lie made up by the food industry; even despite the fact that there are
studies proving otherwise, the vast majority of doctors believe what they
are wanted by the food industry to believe.
PF Riley - 17 Jul 2005 04:33 GMT
>One illustration is the statement that diet fiber is good for health - a
>100% lie made up by the food industry; even despite the fact that there are
>studies proving otherwise, the vast majority of doctors believe what they
>are wanted by the food industry to believe.

Citation please?

PF
bat - 22 Jul 2005 01:18 GMT
Hello PF:
You wrote in conference sci.med,misc.consumers  on Sat, 16 Jul 2005
20:33:31 -0700:

PR> On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 13:35:51 GMT, "bat" <bat@bats.com> wrote:
PR>>
PR>> One illustration is the statement that diet fiber is good for health -
PR>> a 100% lie made up by the food industry; even despite the fact that
PR>> there are studies proving otherwise, the vast majority of doctors
PR>> believe what they are wanted by the food industry to believe.

PR> Citation please?

Pretty much any dictionary definition of dietary fiber mentions that it's
non-digestible as the main criteria. But if it's non-digestible, than isn't
it 100% junk food by the very definition.

If you read about the benefits of dietary fiber, you will see that actually
the only one is in passing through the digesting system and increasing the
amount of stool. Of course, on that way the stupid digestive system is
consistently trying to digest it, since it does not expect to be fed by 100%
junk. Use your own common sense to evaluate if all this can be good for your
digesting system, which by the millions of years of evolution was designed
to digest what's digestible. Do you know of any live being eating known junk
that it never could process?

The result: colon and rectum cancer "is the second leading cause of cancer
death in the U.S. population as a whole, second among men and third in
women"
(http://www.healthgoods.com/Education/Health_Information/Cancer_Rates_and_Risks/c
olon_cancer.htm
).
Could it be because they are forced to move several times more stool than
they were designed for?

Those are just common sense considerations. A book "Fiber Menace" (and
co-named website) about this (with much more details, and much more
scientific) soon will be published*, but it's not ready yet.

regards

*) not by me.
The Real Bev - 22 Jul 2005 01:32 GMT
> Hello PF:
> You wrote in conference sci.med,misc.consumers  on Sat, 16 Jul 2005
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
> co-named website) about this (with much more details, and much more
> scientific) soon will be published*, but it's not ready yet.

I knew it was only a matter of time -- "Oat bran, the silent killer."

Signature

Cheers,
Bev
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
To define recursion, we must first define recursion.

PF Riley - 22 Jul 2005 07:18 GMT
>Hello PF:
>You wrote in conference sci.med,misc.consumers  on Sat, 16 Jul 2005
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>non-digestible as the main criteri[on]. But if it's non-digestible, th[e]n isn't
>it 100% junk food by the very definition[?]

I figured you'd cop out and fail to provide any studies that you claim
"prove" that fiber is not good for the health. Instead you try to
convince me by flawed logic.

Now if I'm understanding you correctly, your logic is as follows:

THE NUTRITIONAL AXIOMS OF 'BAT'
Axiom 1: Fiber is "non-digestible."
Axiom 2: If food is non-digestible, then it is "100% junk food."
Axiom 3: Junk food is not good for health. (I had to infer this one.)

Therefore, one can conclude that fiber is not good for health.

>If you read about the benefits of dietary fiber, you will see that actually
>the only one is in passing through the digesting system and increasing the
>amount of stool.

Wrong. Here are two studies I scraped up in under 2 minutes:

J Agric Food Chem 2003 Feb 12;51(4):1085-9    (ISSN: 0021-8561)
Mitamura R; Hara H; Aoyama Y; Takahashi T; Furuta H
Division of Applied Bioscience, Graduate School of Agriculture,
Hokkaido University, Kita-9, Nishi-9, Kita-ku, Sapporo 060-8589,
Japan.
This study examined the effects of feeding water-soluble soybean fiber
(WSSF), a highly fermentable dietary fiber with low viscosity, on
intestinal calcium (Ca) absorption, bone mineral content, and serum
total cholesterol levels using female Sprague-Dawley rats (5 weeks
old) with or without ovariectomy (OVX). The rats in each group were
fed a WSSF (50 g/kg of diet) or WSSF-free diet for 4 weeks. Ca
absorption was higher in OVX rats fed the WSSF diet than in OVX rats
fed the WSSF-free diet. Femoral Ca content in both sham and OVX rats
fed the WSSF diet was higher than that in rats fed the WSSF-free diet.
The serum total cholesterol levels were elevated after OVX compared
with that in the sham rats, and this elevation was prevented by the
WSSF diet. In conclusion, ingestion of WSSF prevented osteopenia and
hypercholesterolemia induced by ovariectomy in rats.

Eur J Clin Nutr 2002 Sep;56(9):830-42    (ISSN: 0954-3007)
Sierra M; Garcia JJ; Fernandez N; Diez MJ; Calle AP
Department of Pharmacology, Toxicology and Nursing, University of
Leon, Leon, Spain.
OBJECTIVE: The aim of this study was to evaluate the effects of
psyllium in type 2 diabetic patients. DESIGN: The study included three
phases: phase 1 (1 week), phase 2 (treatment, 14 g fibre/day, 6 weeks)
and phase 3 (4 weeks). At the end of each phase a clinical evaluation
was performed after the ingestion of a test breakfast of 1824.2 kJ
(436 kcal). Measurements included concentrations of blood glucose,
insulin, fructosamine, GHbA(1c), C-peptide and 24 h urinary glucose
excretion. In addition, uric acid, cholesterol and several mineral and
vitamin concentrations were also evaluated. SETTING: The study was
performed at the Department of Pharmacology, Toxicology and Nursing at
the University of Leon (Spain). SUBJECTS: Twenty type 2 diabetic
patients (12 men and 8 women) participated in the study with a mean
age of 67.4 y for men and 66 y for women. The mean body mass index of
men was 28.2 kg/m(2) and that of women 25.9 kg/m(2). RESULTS: Glucose
absorption decreased significantly in the presence of psyllium
(12.2%); this reduction is not associated with an important change in
insulin levels (5%). GHbA(1c), C-peptide and 24 h urinary glucose
excretion decreased (3.8, 14.9 and 22.5%, respectively) during the
treatment with fibre (no significant differences) as well as
fructosamine (10.9%, significant differences). Psyllium also reduced
total and LDL cholesterol (7.7 and 9.2%, respectively, significant
differences), and uric acid (10%, significant difference). Minerals
and vitamins did not show important changes, except sodium that
increased significantly after psyllium administration. CONCLUSIONS:
The results obtained indicate a beneficial therapeutic effect of
psyllium (Plantaben) in the metabolic control of type 2 diabetics as
well as in lowering the risk of coronary heart disease. We also
conclude that consumption of this fibre does not adversely affect
either mineral or vitamin A and E concentrations. Finally, for a
greater effectiveness, psyllium treatment should be individually
evaluated.

>Of course, on that way the stupid digestive system is
>consistently trying to digest it, since it does not expect to be fed by 100%
>junk.

Your frustration with trying to figure out how the digestive system
thinks would be resolved if you realized that it doesn't.

>Use your own common sense to evaluate if all this can be good for your
>digesting system, which by the millions of years of evolution was designed
>to digest what's digestible.

Common sense has nothing to do with it. Common sense would tell you
the earth is flat.

>Do you know of any live being eating known junk
>that it never could process?

Uh, yes. They're called poultry. They eat grit, small stones, nails,
staples, etc. to keep in the gizzard. You see, they don't have teeth
so they have to make do with swallowing rocks to grind their food.

So if your theory is that one should never eat anything one cannot
"process" because the infallible system of evolution which produced,
among other things, human breastmilk deficient in vitamin K and men
with nipples, has, according to your "common sense," "designed" a
digestive system that "expects" only to be fed digestible food, and
that only humans are dumb enough to feed it "100% junk," then your
theory has been disproven.

>The result: colon and rectum cancer "is the second leading cause of cancer
>death in the U.S. population as a whole, second among men and third in
>women"
>(http://www.healthgoods.com/Education/Health_Information/Cancer_Rates_and_Risks/c
olon_cancer.htm
).
>Could it be because they are forced to move several times more stool than
>they were designed for?

Or, gosh, could it be that colorectal cancers would be the number one
cause of cancer if we all ate zero fiber?

>Those are just common sense considerations.

Says you.

>A book "Fiber Menace" (and
>co-named website) about this (with much more details, and much more
>scientific) soon will be published*, but it's not ready yet.

I won't hold my breath.

So, tell me, how much fiber do you consume in a day?

PF
bat - 22 Jul 2005 16:43 GMT
PR> I figured you'd cop out and fail to provide any studies that you claim
PR> "prove" that fiber is not good for the health. Instead you try to
PR> convince me by flawed logic.

labeling usually means starting a flame war which I'm not really interested
in, so I won't continue this. Equally, maybe you are specialist and are
competent in the references that you quoted; for me, they are not very
relevant (especially the last one); but being not a specialist, I'm not
prepared for a scientific discussion in this area. For that rason, I'm using
common sense, and, as you rightly noted, my common sense tells me that
trying to digest nondigestable matters is not what my stomach was made for.

If googling for the studies resembling the topic is your favorite way of
research, I'm sure you will equally easily find many sources where words
"car", "water" and "gas" will be in certain proximity from each other, which
may make someone believe that adding non-combustible matters to the gasoline
is good for the car because it will increase the flow in the system. Well...
it's a free country.

According to the author of the book I mentioned, it will have references to
the studies, plus I believe he is many dozen times more qualified to
evaluate and discuss those than I am - don't know about you.

PR> So, tell me, how much fiber do you consume in a day?

close to zero. I would suggest giving it a try - and don't be surprised to
feel 5 times more enegry on the very next day - enegry that otherwise would
be spent on the x,0000+1th attempt to digest the junk.

regards
Don Klipstein - 25 Jul 2005 02:37 GMT
>Hello PF:
>You wrote in conference sci.med,misc.consumers  on Sat, 16 Jul 2005
[quoted text clipped - 32 lines]
>co-named website) about this (with much more details, and much more
>scientific) soon will be published*, but it's not ready yet.

 Human beings are, by evolutionary design, primarily vegetarians with
notably significant omnivore ability.  Our digestive systems are quite
similar to those of other primates.

 Primate digestive systems are by evolution "tuned" to handle a diet that
has a significant quantity of indigestible fiber.

 Some types of fiber, notably present in whole grains, are notably
beneficial by at least to some extent absorbing potentially harmful oily
substances and as a result preventing such oily substances from being
absorbed by the surfaces of the intestine.

 Cellulose does this less, but the human digestive system is "tuned" by
evolution to work best when some significant amount of even such outright
"roughage" is present.

 As for any other animals to an even greater extent requiring a diet of
foods that have more indigestible content:  Elephants!  They don't do well
if most of their calories come from peanuts!  They are evolved to live on
things more along the lines of hay, grass, leaves, and baobab wood!

 Animals that are designed to actually absorb and metabolize nearly all
of their dietary intake, when of weight like that of humans, do so with a
much shorter length of intestine than that which humans have!  Humans have
such longer intestines in order to handle lower-digestibility foods, and
the last several feet work best when significant bulk remains at that
point!

- Don Klipstein (don@misty.com)
bat - 26 Jul 2005 04:28 GMT
Hello Don:
You wrote in conference sci.med,misc.consumers  on Mon, 25 Jul 2005 01:37:01
+0000 (UTC):

DK>   Human beings are, by evolutionary design, primarily vegetarians with
DK> notably significant omnivore ability.  Our digestive systems are quite
DK> similar to those of other primates.

Different races by different degree. According to Encyclopædia Britannica,
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?query=cave+man&eu=127621&tocid=67342 ,
our ancestors Neandartals

Information about the Neanderthal diet — all of their food was gathered from
the landscape — consists mostly of the animal bones that they left behind
...
There is rare evidence that they ate nuts, tubers, and other plant foods
when available
...
There is simply no evidence for any systematic harvesting of wild plant or
animal resources, a characteristic of modern hunter-gatherers in similar
environments

Face anatomy of Caucasians differs from face anatomy of Africans, for
instance, by significantly larger jaws and teets. As Caucasians moved to the
North, they increasingly relied on the meat diet, and it eventually became
the biological norm for Caucasian race.

regards
Dr. Zarkov - 16 Jul 2005 15:00 GMT
> July 15, 2005
> To Sell Their Drugs, Companies Increasingly Rely on Doctors
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> By SCOTT HENSLEY and BARBARA MARTINEZ
> Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

Don't you think that doctors have enough sense and experience to
recognize that sort of bias themselves.  They are constantly besieged by
people of all types pushing their own agenda.

As for being pestered by sales people at the office, one doctor I know
had the best solution: To see him, he charged salesmen the same amount
as his patients for an office visit.

> NEW YORK -- On a recent Wednesday evening, neurologist Lawrence Newman
> spoke to a dozen doctors in a private alcove off the soaring dining
[quoted text clipped - 218 lines]
> often." She adds: "We would never knowingly train them and not use
> them."
Howard McCollister - 16 Jul 2005 16:08 GMT
>> July 15, 2005
>> To Sell Their Drugs, Companies Increasingly Rely on Doctors
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> the best solution: To see him, he charged salesmen the same amount as his
> patients for an office visit.

There are probably doctors out there who take at face value the numerous
articles and seminars that drug reps push, but I certainly don't know any.
Manipulation of the drug company-sponsored "research" is well-known and all
the doctors that I know take all that stuff with a big grain of salt.

I've given numerous talks around the region on surgical options for
treatment of GER for Astra-Zeneca (Nexium/Prilosec). My talks aren't about
drug therapy, only surgical treatment when drug therapy fails. It is indeed
lucrative.

A few years ago, drugs reps roaming the halls of our clinic trying to spear
doctors was getting out of hand, so now we don't allow it. Instead, we let
them come in and cater lunch for all clinic employees. Many of the doctors
will sit down with them and hear the pitch at these lunches, but personally
I just grab the meal and head for my office. Those various reps are signing
up for 3-5 lunches per week between them. The other issue was the drug
sample room. The reps had free access and they'd stock it with samples. They
were moving and hiding competitor's drugs - all kinds of funny stuff. Now,
we run all the samples through the pharmacy and stock them there, write a
prescription for the sample and mark "sample" on it so the patient doesn't
get charged. It keeps the drug reps out of the clinic and eliminates the
funny business out of the sample room.

HMc
Twittering One - 22 Jul 2005 16:46 GMT
Call a Spade a Spade.
Twittering One - 22 Jul 2005 16:47 GMT
If it almost kills you ~

YES,
That is Medical Malpractice.
(PeteCresswell) - 16 Jul 2005 23:15 GMT
Per Dr. Zarkov:
>As for being pestered by sales people at the office, one doctor I know
>had the best solution: To see him, he charged salesmen the same amount
>as his patients for an office visit.

There's a guy that I admire.

The docs I go to just let the salesmen barge right in and make the patients
wait.   One guy, with whom I has an 11:30 left me in the waiting room for about
an hour past that time while he and the salespeople yukked it up over a
delivered lunch.

This may be uncalled-for cynicism on my part, but I have to wonder if I'm giving
this guy $100 for my appointment and he lets some salesperson just barge right
in - just how much more than my hundred bucks does he perceive that he's getting
from the sales person?  

Everything seems tb in place for kickbacks here: the means (prescriptions flow
through the system with my name and the doc's name on them - probably visible to
just about anybody in the industry) and the motive (money).... If it is
happening, I'd guess it wouldn't be anything quite as crass as dollars quid pro
quo.... more likely something like "educational seminars" or "consultation
fees".... but if I were an investigative reporter that would definately be on my
plate.
Signature

PeteCresswell

Twittering One - 16 Jul 2005 23:49 GMT
Everything seems tb in place for kickbacks here: the means
(prescriptions flow
through the system with my name and the doc's name on them - probably
visible to
just about anybody in the industry) and the motive (money).... If it is
happening, I'd guess it wouldn't be anything quite as crass as dollars
quid pro
quo.... more likely something like "educational seminars" or
"consultation
fees".... but if I were an investigative reporter that would definately
be on my
plate.
--
PeteCresswell

"Ms.
Gina Kolata's been there, done that.
Just ask ~ Ms.
Dolly, that classy sassy sheep clone."
~ Folly
 
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