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Medical Forum / General / General / June 2005

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doctors compromised medical ethics NEJM article claims

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outrider - 24 Jun 2005 19:47 GMT
This article focuses on the sacred ground of confidentiality, but what
about the use of physical and psychological torture--whether doctors
are involved and compromised or not?

Health Professionals Involved in Guantánamo Interrogations
by Steven Reinberg
HealthDay News

Wednesday 22 June 2005

Doctors compromised medical ethics, article claims.

   Acting in contradiction to medical ethics, physicians,
psychiatrists and psychologists have played an active role in the
interrogations of foreign detainees in the U.S. prison at Guantánamo
Bay, Cuba, new research claims.

   The revelations, which will appear in the July 7 issue of the New
England Journal of Medicine, were released online Wednesday night.

   According to the report, prisoners do not have any medical
confidentiality, which allows medical personnel to use what they have
learned to aid in interrogations.

   "Contrary to what the Bush administration has said, the rule is no
confidentiality for the detainees at Guantánamo," said study co-author
Dr. M. Gregg Bloche, a law professor at Georgetown University in
Washington, D.C. "Assistant Secretary of Defense for Health Affairs
William Winkenwerder said as recently as last week that confidentiality
protections and exceptions were analogous to those enjoyed by American
citizens."

   However, there is a standing order that has not previously been
reported, he said. Dated August 2002, the order says that not only is
there no medical confidentiality, but health-care providers must report
any information of potential interest to medical and non-medical
personnel at Guantánamo, he added.

   "In addition, in a systematic fashion, medical information was
employed by behavioral science consultants to support the interrogation
process," Bloche said. "These behavioral scientists, typically a
psychiatrist and psychologist, were assigned to a Behavioral Science
Consultation Team."

   These consultants had access to medical records and used them to
develop profiles that could be used to help interrogators, Bloche said.

   "The American people have not been leveled with," Bloche said. "We
need to know a lot more, including the strategies for crafting
interrogation tactics. Also, it's important that we separate the
process of clinical caregiving from the process of interrogation."

   To make medical information available for interrogation makes every
health-care provider part of a network of surveillance, Bloche said.
"That's going way too far. Clinical information should not be made
available to those planning an interrogation," he added.

   Bloche believes there is a narrow role for psychologists in
developing lawful interrogation strategies. "But given what's been
widely reported about the kind of tactics used at Guantanamo, it's
plain that the tactics went too far. And we have learned that the
Behavioral Science Consultation Teams were pervasively involved."

   Not only is there probable cause to suspect that the members of the
Behavioral Science Consultation Teams were complicit, Bloche said, "but
the lack of confidentially makes clinical caregivers participants in
this pervasive process."

   "We need a fuller, thorough and independent inquiry for the abuses
at Guantánamo," Bloche said. "As a part of that inquiry, there should
be an inquest into the ways in which abuse of interrogation practices
were devised."

   Although the Bush administration has said the Geneva Conventions
didn't apply to the prisoners in Guantánamo, Bloche contended, it also
said prisoners would be treated in accordance with those conventions.

   "Plainly, the administration has violated that," he said. "It's
clear that the lack of protection of medical confidentiality violated
Geneva rules."

   On Tuesday, the White House rejected the creation of an independent
commission to investigate allegations of detainee abuse by military
personnel at Guantánamo and elsewhere, according to a Washington Post
report. White House spokesman Scott McClellan said that the Pentagon
has launched 10 major investigations into abuse allegations, and that
the Defense Department would continue to investigate any new
allegations.

   In addition, the Pentagon last week issued new guidelines for
medical personnel that says their only involvement in treating
detainees is to "evaluate, protect or improve their physical and mental
health." According to an Associated Press report, the guidelines,
issued by Assistant Defense Secretary Winkenwerder, also said that
doctors and experts - such as the psychologists, profilers and forensic
pathologists who advise interrogators - are not to be involved in
treating detainees, but must uphold the principles of humane treatment.

   Speaking to reporters June 16, Winkenwerder could not say whether
the guidelines mark any change from existing policy, AP reported. Their
purpose is to prevent any abuse in the future, he said.

   Reaction to the journal article was swift.

   "It's great that somebody is talking about this," said Jumana Musa,
advocacy director for domestic and international justice at Amnesty
International. "It's been out there for a long time, but it gets lost
in the mix because people don't realize the grievous nature of it."

   Musa thinks that it's unfair that prisoners are supposed to get
medical care from doctors who can turn around and give the information
to the military commission, where it can be used to convict them.
"Effectively, that means there is no medical care available to them,"
Musa said.

   Having medical personnel in interrogations also raises questions,
Musa added: "What's being done in interrogations if you need to have
medical people standing by? What does that mean, ethically, to the
medical profession?"

   There are questions raised by this that go beyond whether prisoners
have access to medical care, Musa said. "The lack of confidentially may
prevent someone from seeking medical care if they know it's going to be
used against them in interrogation," she added. "Your job as a doctor
is to treat and to heal, not to facilitate interrogations."

   More Information

   The American Medical Association can tell you more about medical
ethics at www.ama-assn.org.
Howard McCollister - 24 Jun 2005 20:01 GMT
This article focuses on the sacred ground of confidentiality, but what
about the use of physical and psychological torture--whether doctors
are involved and compromised or not?

Health Professionals Involved in Guantánamo Interrogations
by Steven Reinberg
HealthDay News

Wednesday 22 June 2005

Doctors compromised medical ethics, article claims.

Personally, I'm having a little trouble getting worked up over medical
records confidentiality issues as they apply to prisoners of war who are
avowed terrorists, and whose wish it is to see the total destruction of the
United States - an objective those prisoners have actively and
enthusiastically worked toward right up until the time of their detainment.

It's a shame that the NEJM has decided to stoop so low as to participate in
such politically-motivated bullshit.

HMc
outrider - 24 Jun 2005 20:47 GMT
Where is your evidence that each one of these people is an avowed
terrorist, or wishes to see the total destruction of the United States?

Each person should be judged on the evidence particlar to them. I don't
know your declaration of independence, so I can't quote it.

But I have noticed people who make statements like you just did often
quote it. Living it is harder.

Zee
Howard McCollister - 24 Jun 2005 23:37 GMT
> Where is your evidence that each one of these people is an avowed
> terrorist, or wishes to see the total destruction of the United States?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> But I have noticed people who make statements like you just did often
> quote it. Living it is harder.

Your quote makes the statement "According to the report, prisoners do not
have any medical confidentiality, which allows medical personnel to use what
they have learned to aid in interrogations." Big deal. This is no different
than in the US civilian sector, where "confidential" medical records and
testimony from physicians about "confidential" medical information is easily
obtainable by subpoena by law enforcement officials when there is reasonable
suspicion that it is material to a criminal investigation. Once obtained,
that "confidential" information can be used in interrogation and prosecution
of the suspect in any way deemed fit by the civilian law enforcement
personnel.

Whether or not they are *proven* to be terrorists is immaterial to the
article you quote. The US military has *declared* them to be enemy
combatants and prisoners of war, and therefore they are, as far as the
treating physicians are concerned. As a result, "confidential" medical
information obtained by them is usable by military interrogators in whatever
way they see fit.

This all assumes that foreign prisoners of war and captured enemy combatants
are guaranteed the same rights under the US Constitution as US citizens
accused of a crime. They aren't. Forget the Declaration of Independance
(which has no bearing here), forget the US Constitution (likewise)...you
want to be quoting the rules of the Geneva Convention, which is the operable
set of guidelines in this case. So, if you want to take a political stand
here, you need to review the Geneva Convention and quote the part where it
addresses the ethics of using "confidential" medical information and records
in the interrogation of prisoners of war.

HMc
outrider - 25 Jun 2005 02:37 GMT
> > Where is your evidence that each one of these people is an avowed
> > terrorist, or wishes to see the total destruction of the United States?
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>
> HMc

I really think your argument is with your countryman who wrote the
article.
Give him your lecture on 'democracy'.

Zee
Twittering One - 25 Jun 2005 02:42 GMT
"Acting in contradiction to medical ethics, physicians,
psychiatrists and psychologists

have played an active role in the interrogations
of foreign detainees in the U.S. prison at Guantánamo
Bay, Cuba, new research claims."

That is abusive and a violation
Their oath to heal.
Twittering One - 25 Jun 2005 04:41 GMT
Correction,
If they interrogate inhumanely, with intimidation
and other demeaning tactics ~

Abusive.

If I were captive,
I would prefer a humane interogator,
With medical training,
Respecting human rights and dignity,

Rather than someone medically untrained,
Using tactics
That are brutal and debilitating.

As though one has a choice?
Howard McCollister - 25 Jun 2005 02:48 GMT
> I really think your argument is with your countryman who wrote the
> article.
> Give him your lecture on 'democracy'.

Indeed it is. And with you, since your replay of it here indicates your
agreement.

However, since you are now bowing out of the discussion I take it that you
concede that the article is not defensible.

HMc
outrider - 25 Jun 2005 04:21 GMT
That statement is beneath you Dr. McColister. What I am bowing out of
is argument. I didn't post this as anything but information. I want no
confrontation. You have said you disagree with the piece. I have said I
disagree with you.

Have a really great evening. Really.

{If I live to be 100 I'll never figure out this newsgroup schtick.)

Zee
outrider - 25 Jun 2005 16:17 GMT
Apologies for the typo:  McCollister.

zee
SJ Doc - 27 Jun 2005 18:34 GMT
>It's a shame that the NEJM has decided to stoop so low as to
>participate in such politically-motivated bullshit.

Nah.  It's part of the NEJM's longstanding editorial policy on
"social issues," and perfectly reflects the political prejudices of
the Massachusetts Medical Society.  Consider the NEJM's
track record in its editorial and pseudoscientific support of
victim disarmament (AKA "gun control"), and you'll understand
that while the journal can be relied upon for good clinical
publications, its predispositions in the "squishy sciences" pitch
it so far to the left that it's become something of a sick joke.

The editors of the NEJM have been squatting for so long
and so deeply that they couldn't stoop any lower if the
floor fell out from under them.  

---------------
"The human race divides politically into those who want people
to be controlled and those who have no such desire.  The former
are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of
the greatest number.  The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious
and lacking in altruism.  But they are more comfortable neighbors
than the other sort."

    -- Robert A. Heinlein
 
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