Medical Forum / General / General / June 2005
doctors compromised medical ethics NEJM article claims
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outrider - 24 Jun 2005 19:47 GMT This article focuses on the sacred ground of confidentiality, but what about the use of physical and psychological torture--whether doctors are involved and compromised or not?
Health Professionals Involved in Guantánamo Interrogations by Steven Reinberg HealthDay News
Wednesday 22 June 2005
Doctors compromised medical ethics, article claims.
Acting in contradiction to medical ethics, physicians, psychiatrists and psychologists have played an active role in the interrogations of foreign detainees in the U.S. prison at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, new research claims.
The revelations, which will appear in the July 7 issue of the New England Journal of Medicine, were released online Wednesday night.
According to the report, prisoners do not have any medical confidentiality, which allows medical personnel to use what they have learned to aid in interrogations.
"Contrary to what the Bush administration has said, the rule is no confidentiality for the detainees at Guantánamo," said study co-author Dr. M. Gregg Bloche, a law professor at Georgetown University in Washington, D.C. "Assistant Secretary of Defense for Health Affairs William Winkenwerder said as recently as last week that confidentiality protections and exceptions were analogous to those enjoyed by American citizens."
However, there is a standing order that has not previously been reported, he said. Dated August 2002, the order says that not only is there no medical confidentiality, but health-care providers must report any information of potential interest to medical and non-medical personnel at Guantánamo, he added.
"In addition, in a systematic fashion, medical information was employed by behavioral science consultants to support the interrogation process," Bloche said. "These behavioral scientists, typically a psychiatrist and psychologist, were assigned to a Behavioral Science Consultation Team."
These consultants had access to medical records and used them to develop profiles that could be used to help interrogators, Bloche said.
"The American people have not been leveled with," Bloche said. "We need to know a lot more, including the strategies for crafting interrogation tactics. Also, it's important that we separate the process of clinical caregiving from the process of interrogation."
To make medical information available for interrogation makes every health-care provider part of a network of surveillance, Bloche said. "That's going way too far. Clinical information should not be made available to those planning an interrogation," he added.
Bloche believes there is a narrow role for psychologists in developing lawful interrogation strategies. "But given what's been widely reported about the kind of tactics used at Guantanamo, it's plain that the tactics went too far. And we have learned that the Behavioral Science Consultation Teams were pervasively involved."
Not only is there probable cause to suspect that the members of the Behavioral Science Consultation Teams were complicit, Bloche said, "but the lack of confidentially makes clinical caregivers participants in this pervasive process."
"We need a fuller, thorough and independent inquiry for the abuses at Guantánamo," Bloche said. "As a part of that inquiry, there should be an inquest into the ways in which abuse of interrogation practices were devised."
Although the Bush administration has said the Geneva Conventions didn't apply to the prisoners in Guantánamo, Bloche contended, it also said prisoners would be treated in accordance with those conventions.
"Plainly, the administration has violated that," he said. "It's clear that the lack of protection of medical confidentiality violated Geneva rules."
On Tuesday, the White House rejected the creation of an independent commission to investigate allegations of detainee abuse by military personnel at Guantánamo and elsewhere, according to a Washington Post report. White House spokesman Scott McClellan said that the Pentagon has launched 10 major investigations into abuse allegations, and that the Defense Department would continue to investigate any new allegations.
In addition, the Pentagon last week issued new guidelines for medical personnel that says their only involvement in treating detainees is to "evaluate, protect or improve their physical and mental health." According to an Associated Press report, the guidelines, issued by Assistant Defense Secretary Winkenwerder, also said that doctors and experts - such as the psychologists, profilers and forensic pathologists who advise interrogators - are not to be involved in treating detainees, but must uphold the principles of humane treatment.
Speaking to reporters June 16, Winkenwerder could not say whether the guidelines mark any change from existing policy, AP reported. Their purpose is to prevent any abuse in the future, he said.
Reaction to the journal article was swift.
"It's great that somebody is talking about this," said Jumana Musa, advocacy director for domestic and international justice at Amnesty International. "It's been out there for a long time, but it gets lost in the mix because people don't realize the grievous nature of it."
Musa thinks that it's unfair that prisoners are supposed to get medical care from doctors who can turn around and give the information to the military commission, where it can be used to convict them. "Effectively, that means there is no medical care available to them," Musa said.
Having medical personnel in interrogations also raises questions, Musa added: "What's being done in interrogations if you need to have medical people standing by? What does that mean, ethically, to the medical profession?"
There are questions raised by this that go beyond whether prisoners have access to medical care, Musa said. "The lack of confidentially may prevent someone from seeking medical care if they know it's going to be used against them in interrogation," she added. "Your job as a doctor is to treat and to heal, not to facilitate interrogations."
More Information
The American Medical Association can tell you more about medical ethics at www.ama-assn.org.
Howard McCollister - 24 Jun 2005 20:01 GMT This article focuses on the sacred ground of confidentiality, but what about the use of physical and psychological torture--whether doctors are involved and compromised or not?
Health Professionals Involved in Guantánamo Interrogations by Steven Reinberg HealthDay News
Wednesday 22 June 2005
Doctors compromised medical ethics, article claims.
Personally, I'm having a little trouble getting worked up over medical records confidentiality issues as they apply to prisoners of war who are avowed terrorists, and whose wish it is to see the total destruction of the United States - an objective those prisoners have actively and enthusiastically worked toward right up until the time of their detainment.
It's a shame that the NEJM has decided to stoop so low as to participate in such politically-motivated bullshit.
HMc
outrider - 24 Jun 2005 20:47 GMT Where is your evidence that each one of these people is an avowed terrorist, or wishes to see the total destruction of the United States?
Each person should be judged on the evidence particlar to them. I don't know your declaration of independence, so I can't quote it.
But I have noticed people who make statements like you just did often quote it. Living it is harder.
Zee
Howard McCollister - 24 Jun 2005 23:37 GMT > Where is your evidence that each one of these people is an avowed > terrorist, or wishes to see the total destruction of the United States? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > But I have noticed people who make statements like you just did often > quote it. Living it is harder. Your quote makes the statement "According to the report, prisoners do not have any medical confidentiality, which allows medical personnel to use what they have learned to aid in interrogations." Big deal. This is no different than in the US civilian sector, where "confidential" medical records and testimony from physicians about "confidential" medical information is easily obtainable by subpoena by law enforcement officials when there is reasonable suspicion that it is material to a criminal investigation. Once obtained, that "confidential" information can be used in interrogation and prosecution of the suspect in any way deemed fit by the civilian law enforcement personnel.
Whether or not they are *proven* to be terrorists is immaterial to the article you quote. The US military has *declared* them to be enemy combatants and prisoners of war, and therefore they are, as far as the treating physicians are concerned. As a result, "confidential" medical information obtained by them is usable by military interrogators in whatever way they see fit.
This all assumes that foreign prisoners of war and captured enemy combatants are guaranteed the same rights under the US Constitution as US citizens accused of a crime. They aren't. Forget the Declaration of Independance (which has no bearing here), forget the US Constitution (likewise)...you want to be quoting the rules of the Geneva Convention, which is the operable set of guidelines in this case. So, if you want to take a political stand here, you need to review the Geneva Convention and quote the part where it addresses the ethics of using "confidential" medical information and records in the interrogation of prisoners of war.
HMc
outrider - 25 Jun 2005 02:37 GMT > > Where is your evidence that each one of these people is an avowed > > terrorist, or wishes to see the total destruction of the United States? [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > HMc I really think your argument is with your countryman who wrote the article. Give him your lecture on 'democracy'.
Zee
Twittering One - 25 Jun 2005 02:42 GMT "Acting in contradiction to medical ethics, physicians, psychiatrists and psychologists
have played an active role in the interrogations of foreign detainees in the U.S. prison at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, new research claims."
That is abusive and a violation Their oath to heal.
Twittering One - 25 Jun 2005 04:41 GMT Correction, If they interrogate inhumanely, with intimidation and other demeaning tactics ~
Abusive.
If I were captive, I would prefer a humane interogator, With medical training, Respecting human rights and dignity,
Rather than someone medically untrained, Using tactics That are brutal and debilitating.
As though one has a choice?
Howard McCollister - 25 Jun 2005 02:48 GMT > I really think your argument is with your countryman who wrote the > article. > Give him your lecture on 'democracy'. Indeed it is. And with you, since your replay of it here indicates your agreement.
However, since you are now bowing out of the discussion I take it that you concede that the article is not defensible.
HMc
outrider - 25 Jun 2005 04:21 GMT That statement is beneath you Dr. McColister. What I am bowing out of is argument. I didn't post this as anything but information. I want no confrontation. You have said you disagree with the piece. I have said I disagree with you.
Have a really great evening. Really.
{If I live to be 100 I'll never figure out this newsgroup schtick.)
Zee
outrider - 25 Jun 2005 16:17 GMT Apologies for the typo: McCollister.
zee
SJ Doc - 27 Jun 2005 18:34 GMT >It's a shame that the NEJM has decided to stoop so low as to >participate in such politically-motivated bullshit. Nah. It's part of the NEJM's longstanding editorial policy on "social issues," and perfectly reflects the political prejudices of the Massachusetts Medical Society. Consider the NEJM's track record in its editorial and pseudoscientific support of victim disarmament (AKA "gun control"), and you'll understand that while the journal can be relied upon for good clinical publications, its predispositions in the "squishy sciences" pitch it so far to the left that it's become something of a sick joke.
The editors of the NEJM have been squatting for so long and so deeply that they couldn't stoop any lower if the floor fell out from under them.
--------------- "The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort."
-- Robert A. Heinlein
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