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Medical Forum / General / General / June 2005

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does drinking more milk increase rates of hip fractures?

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outrider - 22 Jun 2005 07:41 GMT
I have been told that when you evaluate the top vs the bottom quintile
for milk consumption among women, the former had the highest rate of
hip fractures, and the latter the lowest. True?

The study for men found no difference; however it appears they didn't
consider the chocolate cake factor.

Zee

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Am J Public Health. 1997 Jun;87(6):992-7. Related Articles, Links

Milk, dietary calcium, and bone fractures in women: a 12-year
prospective study.

Feskanich D, Willett WC, Stampfer MJ, Colditz GA.

Channing Laboratory, Boston, Mass. 02115, USA.

OBJECTIVES: This study examined whether higher intakes of milk and
other calcium-rich foods during adult years can reduce the risk of
osteoporotic fractures. METHODS: This was a 12-year prospective study
among 77761 women, aged 34 through 59 years in 1980, who had never used
calcium supplements. Dietary intake was assessed with a food-frequency
questionnaire in 1980, 1984, and 1986. Fractures of the proximal femur
(n = 133) and distal radius (n = 1046) from low or moderate trauma were
self-reported on biennial questionnaires. RESULTS: We found no evidence
that higher intakes of milk or calcium from food sources reduce
fracture incidence. Women who drank two or more glasses of milk per day
had relative risks of 1.45 for hip fracture (95% confidence interval
[CI] = 0.87, 2.43) and 1.05 for forearm fracture (95% CI = 0.88, 1.25)
when compared with women consuming one glass or less per week.
Likewise, higher intakes of total dietary calcium or calcium from dairy
foods were not associated with decreased risk of hip or forearm
fracture.

CONCLUSIONS: These data do not support the hypothesis that higher
consumption of milk or other food sources of calcium by adult women
protects against hip or forearm fractures.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here is a similar study for men -- no difference one way or the other,
apparently.   Zee

J Nutr. 1997 Sep;127(9):1782-7. Related Articles, Links

Calcium intake and the incidence of forearm and hip fractures among
men.

Owusu W, Willett WC, Feskanich D, Ascherio A, Spiegelman D, Colditz GA.

Department of Nutrition, Harvard School of Public Health, Boston MA
02115, USA.

High calcium intakes are thought to be associated with strong bones and
lower risk of fractures. However, findings from epidemiologic studies
have not been consistent. In addition, the vast majority of such
studies were conducted among women, leading to a relative lack of data
concerning men. The objective of this study therefore was to
investigate the relation between adult calcium intake and risk of
fractures among men in the Health Professionals Follow-up Study (HPFS).

During 331,234 person-years of follow-up over an 8-y period, 201
forearm and 56 hip fractures due to low or moderate trauma were
reported among 43,063 men 40-75 y of age in 1986 when they first
completed a questionnaire about diet and lifestyle factors.

After controlling for age, smoking status, body mass index (BMI),
physical activity, alcohol consumption and total energy intake, the
relative risk (RR) of forearm fractures for men in the highest quintile
of calcium intake (from foods plus supplements) compared with those in
the lowest quintile was 0.98 [95% confidence interval (CI) = 0.59-1.61;
P for trend = 0.78]; for hip fractures, the comparable RR was 1.19 (95%
CI = 0.42-3.35; P for trend = 0.58).

Relative risks for consuming >2.5 glasses (600 mL) of milk per day
compared with one (240 mL) or fewer per week were 1.06 (95% CI =
0.69-1.62; P for trend = 0.82) for forearm fractures and 0.97 (95% CI =
0.39-2.42; P for trend = 0.56) for hip fractures.

In conclusion, these results do not support a relation between calcium
intake and the incidence of forearm or hip fractures in men.
Juhana Harju - 22 Jun 2005 07:55 GMT
:: I have been told that when you evaluate the top vs the bottom
:: quintile for milk consumption among women, the former had the
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
:: In conclusion, these results do not support a relation between
:: calcium intake and the incidence of forearm or hip fractures in men.

Sufficient  *sunlight* exposure or supplemental *vitamin D is much more*
*important* in the prevention of fractures than calcium. This is a later
study by Harvard:

Am J Clin Nutr. 2003 Feb;77(2):504-11. Related Articles, Links

Calcium, vitamin D, milk consumption, and hip fractures: a prospective study
among postmenopausal women.

Feskanich D, Willett WC, Colditz GA.

Channing Laboratory, Department of Medicine, Brigham and Women's Hospital
and Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA 02115, USA.

BACKGROUND: Short trials of calcium supplementation show that it reduces
loss of bone density in postmenopausal women; longer observational studies
do not generally find a lower risk of hip fracture with higher-calcium
diets. Fewer studies have focused on vitamin D in preventing postmenopausal
osteoporosis or fractures. OBJECTIVE: We assessed relations between
postmenopausal hip fracture risk and calcium, vitamin D, and milk
consumption. DESIGN: In an 18-y prospective analysis in 72 337
postmenopausal women, dietary intake and nutritional supplement use were
assessed at baseline in 1980 and updated several times during follow-up. We
identified 603 incident hip fractures resulting from low or moderate trauma.
Relative risks (RRs) from proportional hazards models were controlled for
other dietary and nondietary factors. RESULTS: Women consuming > or = 12.5
microg vitamin D/d from food plus supplements had a 37% lower risk of hip
fracture (RR = 0.63; 95% CI: 0.42, 0.94) than did women consuming < 3.5
microg/d. Total calcium intake was not associated with hip fracture risk (RR
= 0.96; 95% CI: 0.68, 1.34 for > or = 1200 compared with < 600 mg/d). Milk
consumption was also not associated with a lower risk of hip fracture (P for
trend = 0.21). CONCLUSIONS: An adequate vitamin D intake is associated with
a lower risk of osteoporotic hip fractures in postmenopausal women. Neither
milk nor a high-calcium diet appears to reduce risk. Because women commonly
consume less than the recommended intake of vitamin D, supplement use or
dark fish consumption may be prudent. PMID: 12540414

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra
ct&list_uids=12540414&query_hl=1


Signature

Juhana

Enrico C - 22 Jun 2005 12:09 GMT
> Am J Clin Nutr. 2003 Feb;77(2):504-11. Related Articles, Links

[...]

> dark fish consumption may be prudent.

Such as  swordfish, salmon, blue-fish, mackerel, or sardines, right? :)

X'Posted to: sci.med,sci.med.nutrition

Signature

Enrico C

Juhana Harju - 22 Jun 2005 12:32 GMT
:: On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:55:27 +0300, Juhana Harju wrote in
:: <news:3hsgalFil53cU1@individual.net> on sci.med,sci.med.nutrition :
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
:: Such as  swordfish, salmon, blue-fish, mackerel, or sardines, right?
:: :)

Yes, that is what they mean but it is almost impossible to get enough
vitamin D from diet in the Northern latitudes (> 50 N). Supplements are
needed in wintertime.

Signature

Juhana

Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 22 Jun 2005 21:12 GMT
>>CONCLUSIONS: These data do not support the hypothesis that higher
consumption of milk or other food sources of calcium by adult women
protects against hip or forearm fractures. <<

COMMENT:
Well, actually, what is not supported is that higher amount of milk on
dietary recall studies is associated with lower rates of hip fracture.
Meta-analysis of many available such studies generally show the same
thing. Several prospective studies of calcium supplements, however, do
show a protective effect, which raises the question of whether or not
the calcium source difference is the problem, or the dietary recall
epidemology is the problem. I know of no prospective randomized studies
on milk and fracture--- they would need to be too large and of course
couldn't be blinded (though for fracture endpoint, probably blinding
isn't a big issue). There are a couple of studies of calcium and bone
density that are prospective, but they're funded by the milk lobby and
use a proxy variable, so are open to criticism.

In general, epidemiologic studies are more useful for refuting a
purported causal relation than for PROVING a purported causal relation.
Even if there was a NEGATIVE epidemiologic correlation between milk
drinking and fracture, all we could infer is that milk probably doesn't
CONTRIBUTE to fracture in a big way. A null result gives much the same
conclusion.

As I read it, the best evidence is that women are better advised to
take calcium supplements for their calcium, and consider milk-drinking
harmless recreation. As with chocolate cake.

SBH

Osteoporos Int. 2004 Oct 21; [Epub ahead of print]

A meta-analysis of milk intake and fracture risk: low utility for case
finding.

Kanis JA, Johansson H, Oden A, De Laet C, Johnell O, Eisman JA,
McCloskey E,
Mellstrom D, Pols H, Reeve J, Silman A, Tenenhouse A.

WHO Collaborating Centre for Metabolic Bone Diseases, University of
Sheffield
Medical School, Beech Hill Road, S10 2RX, Sheffield, UK.

A low intake of calcium is widely considered to be a risk factor for
future
fracture. The aim of this study was to quantify this risk on an
international
basis and to explore the effect of age, gender and bone mineral density
(BMD) on
this risk. We studied 39,563 men and women (69% female) from six
prospectively
studied cohorts comprising EVOS/EPOS, CaMos, DOES, the Rotterdam study,
the
Sheffield study and a cohort from Gothenburg. Cohorts were followed for
152,000
person-years. The effect of calcium intake as judged by the intake of
milk on
the risk of any fracture, any osteoporotic fracture and hip fracture
alone was
examined using a Poisson model for each sex from each cohort.
Covariates
examined were age and BMD. The results of the different studies were
merged by
using the weighted beta-coefficients. A low intake of calcium (less
than 1 glass
of milk daily) was not associated with a significantly increased risk
of any
fracture, osteoporotic fracture or hip fracture. There was no
difference in risk
ratio between men and women. When both sexes were combined there was a
small but
non-significant increase in the risk of osteoporotic and of hip
fracture. There
was also a small increase in the risk of an osteoporotic fracture with
age which
was significant at the age of 80 years (RR=1.15; 95% CI=1.02-1.30) and
above.
The association was no longer significant after adjustment for BMD. No
significant relationship was observed by age for low milk intake and
hip
fracture risk. We conclude that a self-reported low intake of milk is
not
associated with any marked increase in fracture risk and that the use
of this
risk indicator is of little or no value in case-finding strategies.

PMID: 15502959 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

=======================================

J Bone Miner Res. 1997 Sep;12(9):1321-9.

Calcium for prevention of osteoporotic fractures in postmenopausal
women.

Cumming RG, Nevitt MC.

Department of Public Health and Community Medicine, University of
Sydney,
Australia.

A systematic review of the literature was conducted to assess the
effectiveness
of calcium supplements and/or dietary calcium for the prevention of
osteoporotic
fractures in postmenopausal women. Studies were identified by
conducting a
Medline search using the text words "fracture" and "calcium" for the
period 1966
to March 1997 and by reviewing articles known to the authors. Only
studies with
fracture outcomes were eligible. There were 14 studies of calcium
supplements
(including 4 randomized trials), 18 studies of dietary calcium and hip
fracture
(no randomized trials), and 5 studies of dietary calcium and other
fracture
sites (no randomized trials). The 4 randomized trials of calcium
supplements
(mean calcium dose: 1050 mg) found relative risk (RR) reductions
between 25% and
70%. Meta-analytic techniques for dose-response data were used to
investigate
and pool the findings of 16 observational studies of dietary calcium
and hip
fracture. These hip fracture studies were not consistent and
heterogeneity of
study findings (p = 0.02) was not easily explained by subject
characteristics or
study design. Pooling study results gave an odds ratio (OR) of 0.96
(95%
confidence interval, (CI) 0.93-0.99) per 300 mg/day increase in calcium
intake
(the equivalent of one glass of milk). This is likely to be an
underestimate of
calcium's true effect because of inaccurate measurement of dietary
calcium in
observational studies. This review supports the current clinical and
public
health policy of recommending increased calcium intake among older
women for
fracture prevention.

Publication Types:
   Meta-Analysis

PMID: 9286747 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 22 Jun 2005 21:41 GMT
>>There are a couple of studies of calcium and bone
density that are prospective, but they're funded by the milk lobby and
use a proxy variable, so are open to criticism. <<

I wrote "calcium" but meant to write that there are few studies of MILK
SUPPLEMENTATION that are prospective. You can show prospectively that
milk supplements increase bone density in women, but the studies have
not been large enough to show a difference even in vertebral fracture,
let alone hip fracture.

SBH
George  Lagergren - 23 Jun 2005 03:50 GMT
> As I read it, the best evidence is that women are better advised to
> take calcium supplements for their calcium, and consider milk-drinking
> harmless recreation. As with chocolate cake.

        Per the www.notmilk.com web site, cow's milk-drinking is NOT a
harmless recreation.
David Wright - 23 Jun 2005 05:05 GMT
>> As I read it, the best evidence is that women are better advised to
>> take calcium supplements for their calcium, and consider milk-drinking
>> harmless recreation. As with chocolate cake.
>
>         Per the www.notmilk.com web site, cow's milk-drinking is NOT a
>harmless recreation.

That web site is crap, George, no matter how much you want it to be
true.

 -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "Are you going to come quietly, or do I have to use earplugs?"
                                       -- The Goon Show
banmilk@hotmail.com - 23 Jun 2005 22:00 GMT
> >> As I read it, the best evidence is that women are better advised to
> >> take calcium supplements for their calcium, and consider milk-drinking
> >> harmless recreation. As with chocolate cake.
> >
> >         Per the www.notmilk.com web site, cow's milk-drinking is NOT a
> >harmless recreation.

> That web site is crap, George, no matter how much you want it to be
> true.

Perhaps you or our esteemed Dr. Harris would care to debate cow milk
science on live radio or tv with Robert Cohen?

>   -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
>      These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
>      "Are you going to come quietly, or do I have to use earplugs?"
>                                         -- The Goon Show
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 23 Jun 2005 22:51 GMT
>>Perhaps you or our esteemed Dr. Harris would care to debate cow milk
science on live radio or tv with Robert Cohen? <<

And have him speak a gallon of nonsense while I'm struggling to get in
a pint of reason?

We have pretty good debating medium right here on the internet. If
somebody says something, it's on the record and they can't claim they
didn't say it.  People can't make points without backup, without
getting called on their sources. There's time for either side to read
and evaluate new studies that the other hasn't seen.  You can't have
any decent fact-based debate without time for rebuttal and study of
sources.

If Cohen wants to debate me right here, bring him on.

SBH
Pizza Girl. - 23 Jun 2005 23:50 GMT
You're letting out too much rope here with those statements.

> >>Perhaps you or our esteemed Dr. Harris would care to debate cow milk
> science on live radio or tv with Robert Cohen? <<
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> SBH
David Wright - 24 Jun 2005 03:29 GMT
>> >> As I read it, the best evidence is that women are better advised to
>> >> take calcium supplements for their calcium, and consider milk-drinking
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>Perhaps you or our esteemed Dr. Harris would care to debate cow milk
>science on live radio or tv with Robert Cohen?

I'm all a-twitter -- do you suppose I can ask him why anyone should
give a rat's a.s whether or not some bimbo actress has given up
drinking milk?  (When I looked at the site, this was prominently
featured.)

 -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "I believe The Battle of the Network Stars should be fought with guns."
                                       -- Steve Martin
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 22 Jun 2005 21:16 GMT
>>I have been told that when you evaluate the top vs the bottom quintile
for milk consumption among women, the former had the highest rate of
hip fractures, and the latter the lowest. True? <<

COMMENT:

I might add that prevention of high and forearm fracture is the hardest
of the hard problems in osteoporosis prevention. Both these depend on
loss of cortical bone, which is less susceptable to calcium supplement
intervention loss than trabecular bone (ie, what's inside vertebrae),
and which is what goes first and worse in classic type I homone-related
osteoporosis. It make well be that milk drinking, like calcium, has a
far bigger impact on widow's hump than hip fracture.

SBH
outrider - 22 Jun 2005 23:12 GMT
Osteoporosis?

This whole osteoporosis thing is a load of hooey.

The standard they are measuring women against is a 30 year old woman.

Few women over 30 will meet that standard; neither will they at 50, and
certainly not at 70. That does not mean they have a disease process.

Bone loss is a normal factor of aging!

True osteoporosis prevention begins with choosing your parents wisely,
getting weight bearing exercise throughout your life and daily, eating
a nutritious moderate and thoughtful diet (maybe avoiding carbonated
beverages, for example), and asking lots of questions...

Not all of them in the same office where resides a smouldering
prescripiton pad.

Zee
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 22 Jun 2005 23:20 GMT
>>Osteoporosis? This whole osteoporosis thing is a load of hooey.
The standard they are measuring women against is a 30 year old woman.
<<

No, no. Google "DEXA Z-score" and educate yourself. Then get back to
us.

SBH
outrider - 22 Jun 2005 23:36 GMT
> >>Osteoporosis? This whole osteoporosis thing is a load of hooey.
> The standard they are measuring women against is a 30 year old woman.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> SBH

Us? Who is this all-brain US?

Down boy.

Zee
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 22 Jun 2005 23:45 GMT
>>Us? Who is this all-brain US? <<

The readers of this newsgroup.
Twittering One - 22 Jun 2005 23:40 GMT
yingyang
metaOz
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 22 Jun 2005 23:43 GMT
>>Few women over 30 will meet that standard; neither will they at 50, and
certainly not at 70. That does not mean they have a disease process. <<

COMMENT:

If I understand your point, it comes up against the question of whether
or not to regard "normal" or "average" age-related changes as
"diseases."

My answer is that if it breaks your hip and kills you, or even if it
crushes your spine and gives you a hump, it's reasonable to think of it
as a disease. Disease = "dis - ease".  Something that screws up your
life.

Of course, there are people who refuse to be labeled as having a
"disease" no matter what. People 4 feet tall. People 5 feet tall and
400 lbs. People HIV positive.  People whose bones are thin as tissue
paper. Denial isn't just a long river in Egypt.  And that's fine with
me if people absolutely insist that they are healthier than I think
they are. The ultimate judge of health is the natural course of things.
If it breaks under normal stress, I submit that it wasn't healthy.

Is there some age beyond which *nobody* is healthy?  Sure. That's the
human life span is limited. If you refuse to see things that way, then
YOU explain it.

SBH
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 22 Jun 2005 23:43 GMT
>>Few women over 30 will meet that standard; neither will they at 50, and
certainly not at 70. That does not mean they have a disease process. <<

COMMENT:

If I understand your point, it comes up against the question of whether
or not to regard "normal" or "average" age-related changes as
"diseases."

My answer is that if it breaks your hip and kills you, or even if it
crushes your spine and gives you a hump, it's reasonable to think of it
as a disease. Disease = "dis - ease".  Something that screws up your
life.

Of course, there are people who refuse to be labeled as having a
"disease" no matter what. People 4 feet tall. People 5 feet tall and
400 lbs. People HIV positive.  People whose bones are thin as tissue
paper. Denial isn't just a long river in Egypt.  And that's fine with
me if people absolutely insist that they are healthier than I think
they are. The ultimate judge of health is the natural course of things.
If it breaks under normal stress, I submit that it wasn't healthy.

Is there some age beyond which *nobody* is healthy?  Sure. That's why
the human life span is limited. If you refuse to see things that way,
then YOU explain it.

SBH
outrider - 23 Jun 2005 00:26 GMT
> >>Few women over 30 will meet that standard; neither will they at 50, and
> certainly not at 70. That does not mean they have a disease process. <<
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> as a disease. Disease = "dis - ease".  Something that screws up your
> life.

I was wrong about the 30 year old.

She's only 25.

"The World Health Organization has based definitions on the T-score,
which is the number of standard deviations from the mean (average)
value of a 25-year-old woman."

Zee--out getting some osteoporosis prevention

> Of course, there are people who refuse to be labeled as having a
> "disease" no matter what. People 4 feet tall. People 5 feet tall and
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> SBH
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 23 Jun 2005 01:05 GMT
It's around two standard deviations, depending on whose definitions you
like. But it's a lot. The Z-score IS used to give you a look at how
you're doing compared to average for your age, sex, and race. This is
helpful. The T-score defines the disease because nature doesn't grade
on a curve.
outrider - 23 Jun 2005 20:23 GMT
Slight tack to port:

http://www.cbc.ca/quirks/archives/04-05/jun18.html

The role of calcium in builidng strong bones. Priest says calcium has
been way overrated. Much more important is physical
activity and Vit D.
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 23 Jun 2005 21:04 GMT
The role of calcium in builidng strong bones. Priest says calcium has
been way overrated. Much more important is physical
activity and Vit D.

That's probably correct, and is even more correct for children and
young adults than for older ones. A lot of the milk studies are
confounded by the fact that the milk is usually UV irradiated and
therefore supplemented with vitamin D.

Here's one for the pediatricians, a very large meta analysis. Result.
Bonewise, milk per se does little good, but also no harm in kids. Both
boosters and detractors of routine milk for kids as a way to build
strong bones, are going to be unhappy. Doesn't it suck when practically
EVERYBODY is wrong, establishment AND antiestablishment?

Pediatrics. 2005 Mar;115(3):736-43.

Comment in:
   Pediatrics. 2005 Mar;115(3):792-4.

Calcium, dairy products, and bone health in children and young adults:
a
reevaluation of the evidence.

Lanou AJ, Berkow SE, Barnard ND.

Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, 5100 Wisconsin Ave NW,
Suite 400,
Washington, DC 20016, USA. alanou@pcrm.org

OBJECTIVE: Numerous nutrition policy statements recommend the
consumption of 800
to 1500 mg of calcium largely from dairy products for osteoporosis
prevention;
however, the findings of epidemiologic and prospective studies have
raised
questions about the efficacy of the use of dairy products for the
promotion of
bone health. The objective of this study was to review existing
literature on
the effects of dairy products and total dietary calcium on bone
integrity in
children and young adults to assess whether evidence supports (1)
current
recommended calcium intake levels and (2) the suggestion that dairy
products are
better for promoting bone integrity than other calcium-containing food
sources
or supplements. METHODS: A Medline (National Library of Medicine,
Bethesda, MD)
search was conducted for studies published on the relationship between
milk,
dairy products, or calcium intake and bone mineralization or fracture
risk in
children and young adults (1-25 years). This search yielded 58 studies:
22
cross-sectional studies; 13 retrospective studies; 10 longitudinal
prospective
studies; and 13 randomized, controlled trials. RESULTS: Eleven of the
studies
did not control for weight, pubertal status, and exercise and were
excluded. Ten
studies were randomized, controlled trials of supplemental calcium, 9
of which
showed modest positive benefits on bone mineralization in children and
adolescents. Of the remaining 37 studies of dairy or unsupplemented
dietary
calcium intake, 27 studies found no relationship between dairy or
dietary
calcium intake and measures of bone health. In the remaining 9 reports,
the
effects on bone health are small and 3 were confounded by vitamin D
intake from
milk fortified with vitamin D. Therefore, in clinical, longitudinal,
retrospective, and cross-sectional studies, neither increased
consumption of
dairy products, specifically, nor total dietary calcium consumption has
shown
even a modestly consistent benefit for child or young adult bone
health.
CONCLUSION: Scant evidence supports nutrition guidelines focused
specifically on
increasing milk or other dairy product intake for promoting child and
adolescent
bone mineralization.

Publication Types:
   Review

PMID: 15741380 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

The case for milk and calcium as a way to prevent bone loss in type I
osteoporosis is a bit stronger, but confounded with vitamin D, and (as
noted) is mainly based on bone calcium measurements and hasn't been big
enough or long enough to directly show a lower major fracture rate at
hip or arm.

Here's a milk study, but uncontrolled for vitamin D. All you can say is
it provides evidence that milk per se doesn't do harm.

Osteoporos Int. 2003 Oct;14(10):828-34. Epub 2003 Aug 12.

The effect of milk supplementation on bone mineral density in
postmenopausal
Chinese women in Malaysia.

Chee WS, Suriah AR, Chan SP, Zaitun Y, Chan YM.

Department of Nutrition & Dietetics, Faculty of Allied Health Sciences,
National
University of Malaysia, Jalan Raja Muda Abdul Aziz, 50300 Kuala Lumpur,
Malaysia. winnie@medic.ukm.my

Dietary studies often report low calcium intake amongst post-menopausal
Malaysian women and calcium deficiency has been implicated as part of
the
etiology of age-related bone loss leading to osteoporosis. Therefore,
the
objective of this study was to examine the effectiveness of high
calcium skimmed
milk (Anlene Gold, New Zealand Milk, Wellington, New Zealand) to reduce
bone
loss in Chinese postmenopausal women. Two hundred subjects aged 55-65
years and
who were more than 5 years postmenopausal were randomized to a milk
group and
control group. The milk group consumed 50 g of high calcium skimmed
milk powder
daily, which contained 1200 mg calcium (taken as two glasses of milk a
day). The
control group continued with their usual diet. Using repeated measures
ANCOVA,
the milk supplement was found to significantly reduce the percentage of
bone
loss at the total body compared to the control group at 24 months
(control
-1.04%, milk -0.13%; P<0.001). At the lumbar spine, the percentage of
bone loss
in the control group was significantly higher (-0.90%) when compared to
the milk
(-0.13%) supplemented group at 24 months (P<0.05). Similarly, milk
supplementation reduced the percentage of bone loss at the femoral neck
(control
-1.21%, milk 0.51%) (P<0.01) and total hip (control -2.17%, milk
-0.50%)
(P<0.01). The supplemented group did not experience any significant
weight gain
over the 24 months. The serum 25-hydroxy vitamin D level improved
significantly
(P<0.01) from 69.1 +/- 16.1 nmol/l at baseline to 86.4 +/- 22.0 nmol/l
at 24
months in the milk group. In conclusion, ingestion of high calcium
skimmed milk
was effective in reducing the rate of bone loss at clinically important
lumbar
spine and hip sites in postmenopausal Chinese women in Malaysia.
Supplementing
with milk had additional benefits of improving the serum 25-hydroxy
vitamin D
status of the subjects.

Publication Types:
   Clinical Trial
   Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 12915959 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Here's much the same kind of study in New England, showing much the
same kind of thing. Note that again, milk is better than placebo, and
just about as good as a calcium supplement. However, again both groups
got vitamin D and this may just as well explain the effect.

J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1998 Nov;83(11):3817-25.

Calcium supplementation prevents seasonal bone loss and changes in
biochemical
markers of bone turnover in elderly New England women: a randomized
placebo-controlled trial.

Storm D, Eslin R, Porter ES, Musgrave K, Vereault D, Patton C,
Kessenich C,
Mohan S, Chen T, Holick MF, Rosen CJ.

St. Joseph Hospital, Bangor, Maine 04401, USA.

Elderly women are at increased risk for bone loss and fractures. In
previous
cross-sectional and longitudinal studies of women residing in northern
latitudes, bone loss was most pronounced during winter months and in
those
consuming less than 1 g calcium per day. In this study we sought to
test the
hypothesis that calcium supplementation by either calcium carbonate or
dietary
means would prevent seasonal bone loss and preserve bone mass. Sixty
older
postmenopausal women without osteoporosis were randomized to one of
three
treatment arms: Dietary milk supplementation (D-4 glasses of milk/day),
Calcium
carbonate (CaCO3-1000 mg/day in two divided doses), or placebo (P).
After 2 yr,
placebo-treated women consumed a mean of 683 mg/day of calcium and lost
3.0% of
their greater trochanteric (GT) bone mineral density (BMD) (P < 0.03
vs.
baseline); Dietary supplemented women averaged a calcium intake of 1028
mg/day
and sustained minimal loss from the GT (-1.5%; P = 0.30), whereas
CaCO3-treated
women (total Ca intake, 1633 mg/day) suffered no bone loss from the GT
and
showed a significant increase in spinal and femoral neck BMD (P <
0.05). Femoral
bone loss occurred exclusively during the two winters of the study
(i.e. total
loss, -3.2%; P < 0.02 in placebo-treated women) with virtually no
change in GT
BMD during summer. Serum 25-OH vitamin D declined by more than 20% (P <
0.001)
in all groups during the winter months but returned to baseline in
summer; PTH
levels rose approximately 20% (P < 0.001) during winter but did not
return to
baseline during the summers. Urine N-telopeptide and osteocalcin levels
increased significantly but only in the P-treated women and only during
winter.
Serum insulin growth factor binding protein 4, an inhibitory insulin
growth
factor binding protein, rose 15% (P < 0.03) from summer to winter, but
this
increase was significant only in those women consuming <1000 mg/day of
calcium.
By multivariate analysis, total calcium intake was the strongest
predictor of
bone loss from the hip. Urinary N-telopeptide also closely correlated
with GT
BMD but only during winter (P = 0.003). We conclude that calcium
supplementation
prevents bone loss in elderly women by suppressing bone turnover during
the
winter when serum 25-OH vitamin D declines and serum PTH increases. The
precise
amount of calcium necessary to preserve BMD in elderly women requires
further
studies, although in this study, at least 1000 mg/day of supplemental
calcium
was adequate prophylaxis against femoral bone loss.

Publication Types:
   Clinical Trial
   Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 9814452 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

And here's one more prospective study, again with the vitamin D
problem.

J Bone Miner Res. 1995 Jul;10(7):1068-75.

The effects of calcium supplementation (milk powder or tablets) and
exercise on
bone density in postmenopausal women.

Prince R, Devine A, Dick I, Criddle A, Kerr D, Kent N, Price R, Randell
A.

Department of Medicine, University of Western Australia, Nedlands.

The etiology of age-related bone loss is unclear but both lack of
exercise and
dietary calcium deficiency have been implicated in its causation. This
2-year
randomized placebo-controlled study was designed to examine the effects
of
increased dietary calcium and exercise in 168 women who were more than
10 years
postmenopausal. The subjects were randomized into one of 4 groups:
placebo, milk
powder containing 1 g of calcium, calcium tablets 1 g/night, and
calcium tablets
1 g/night and an exercise regimen. The exercise group aimed to
undertake 4 h of
extra weight-bearing exercise per week and were undertaking 10% more
activity
than other groups at 2 years. Bone mineral density at the lumbar spine,
three
hip sites, and two sites of the tibia close to the ankle joint were
measured at
6 month intervals. Dietary intake was evaluated by a weighed food
record,
exercise was evaluated by an exercise diary, and blood and urine
samples were
obtained to examine effects on calcium homeostasis. Individual data
points were
compared using repeated measures ANOVA and least squares regression.
Calcium
supplementation by either the calcium tablets or the milk powder
resulted in
cessation of bone loss at the intertrochanteric hip site (placebo,
calcium
tablets, calcium and exercise, milk powder -0.81, +0.17, +0.23, and
+0.07% per
year, respectively; p < 0.05 for all supplementation groups compared
with
placebo) with similar results at the trochanteric hip site. The calcium
and
exercise group had less bone loss at the femoral neck site when
compared with
calcium supplementation alone (placebo, calcium tablets, calcium and
exercise,
milk powder -0.67, -0.18, +0.28, and -0.18% per year, respectively; p <
0.05 for
calcium and exercise compared with calcium alone). There was a
significant
reduction in the rate of bone loss at the ultradistal site of the tibia
(placebo, calcium tablets, calcium and exercise, milk powder -2.5,
-1.6, -1.0,
and -1.5% per year, respectively; p < 0.05 for all supplementation
groups
compared with placebo). There was no significant bone loss at the spine
site in
any group.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

Publication Types:
   Clinical Trial
   Randomized Controlled Trial

PMID: 7484282 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Final comment:

The reason it's so hard to do milk studies WITHOUT the vitamin D is
that it's almost impossible to find unfortified milk these days, unless
you get it raw and unprocessed.  That's no excuse for not doing a
vitamin D only control in these things, though.

Still, studies like this I think are adequate to put the screws to the
nuts who say processed milk (with its vitamin D) is actually bad for
women with osteoporosis. Clearly, it is not. Clearly, it's better than
water. Sorry, alternative weenies.

SBH
Pizza Girl. - 23 Jun 2005 23:52 GMT
No mention of the mass vomitting the women did four times per day.

> The role of calcium in builidng strong bones. Priest says calcium has
> been way overrated. Much more important is physical
[quoted text clipped - 339 lines]
>
> SBH
David Wright - 24 Jun 2005 03:55 GMT
>No mention of the mass vomitting the women did four times per day.

Now, now, PG, there is no reason to assume all those women were
reading your ghastly postings.

 -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
    These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
    "I believe The Battle of the Network Stars should be fought with guns."
                                       -- Steve Martin

>> The role of calcium in builidng strong bones. Priest says calcium has
>> been way overrated. Much more important is physical
[quoted text clipped - 339 lines]
>>
>> SBH
Robert - 23 Jun 2005 00:58 GMT
> Osteoporosis?
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Bone loss is a normal factor of aging!

More people as they age come down with cancer. Is this a normal factor of
aging?
Whether normal or abnormal process the end result is disease and the
intervention is directed against preventing normal factors of aging or
abnormal factors of aging. Disease is disease and falling down and breaking
bones with ease is a disease.
Call it whatever you want. Just prevent it. Calling it normal and not doing
anything is not preventing it.
George  Lagergren - 23 Jun 2005 03:47 GMT
> More people as they age come down with cancer. Is this a normal factor of
> aging?

         As people age, they make less digestive enzymes.
Jim Chinnis - 23 Jun 2005 01:26 GMT
"outrider" <outrider@despammed.com> wrote in part:

>I have been told that when you evaluate the top vs the bottom quintile
>for milk consumption among women, the former had the highest rate of
>hip fractures, and the latter the lowest. True?

Buncha nonsense. Maybe women who remember drinking more milk are
more active and more likely to break bones. Who the heck knows?

You need a randomized study.
--
Jim Chinnis   Warrenton, Virginia, USA
Pizza Girl. - 23 Jun 2005 03:40 GMT
This stands to reason because of milks great calcium - magnesium imbalance.
The bones turn to chalk and the digestive system gets irritated to the point
of uselessness and malnutition results.

> I have been told that when you evaluate the top vs the bottom quintile
> for milk consumption among women, the former had the highest rate of
[quoted text clipped - 80 lines]
> In conclusion, these results do not support a relation between calcium
> intake and the incidence of forearm or hip fractures in men.
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 23 Jun 2005 19:27 GMT
>>This stands to reason because of milks great calcium - magnesium imbalance.
The bones turn to chalk and the digestive system gets irritated to the
point
of uselessness and malnutition results. <<

COMMENT:

Did you read the posted studies?

Anyway, Pizza Girl, you might be interested in the fact that human milk
has the same calcium/magesium ratio as cow's milk: about 10 to 1.  If
the baby's bones don't turn to chalk, it's rather unlikely that the
adult's do.

SBH
noz - 27 Jun 2005 10:41 GMT
The calcium /magnesium balance is the problem. Too much dairy results
in decreased magnesium. Osteoporosis is simply 'chalky' bones.
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 27 Jun 2005 18:10 GMT
>>The calcium /magnesium balance is the problem. Too much dairy results
in decreased magnesium. Osteoporosis is simply 'chalky' bones.<<

COMMENT:

Ignorant sod. In osteroporosis the bone gets thinner and disappears.
That's left has composition which is very close to normal for bone.
There's nothing chalky about it.

SBH
Pizza Girl. - 28 Jun 2005 00:23 GMT
If the bones had good magnesium content they would break often as the
resilence would prevent it.

> >>The calcium /magnesium balance is the problem. Too much dairy results
> in decreased magnesium. Osteoporosis is simply 'chalky' bones.<<
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> SBH
 
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