Medical Forum / General / General / June 2005
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outrider - 12 Jun 2005 03:15 GMT Tainted to the Core Why conflicts of interest are hazardous to your health By Jennifer Washburn June 7, 2005
In the fall of 2001, the editors of 12 prominent medical journals collectively announced that they would refuse to publish research on new prescription drugs unless the authors provided assurances that they had had unimpeded access to the data and were fully responsible for the paper's conclusions. The announcement was an extraordinary admission of just how extensive industry control over medical research had become. The editors noted that more and more, the authors of scientific papers--even authors based at prestigious universities--did not have access to the complete trial data. In some cases, the editors observed, authors were unable to publish without prior authorization from the corporate sponsor.
The journal editors pointed out that publication of clinical studies in respected peer-reviewed journals is the "ultimate basis for most treatment decisions," so it is essential that the data be gathered and presented in "an objective and dispassionate manner." Medicine is only as good as the science on which it is based, and if that science is not objective and honest, then patients can be seriously harmed. The editors noted "that the current intellectual environment ... may threaten this precious objectivity." Until recently, university medical centers contributed to the "quality, intellectual rigor and impact of such clinical trials," they explained, "but as economic pressures mount, this may be a thing of the past."
With the possible exception of business schools, industry's penetration into the nation's medical schools has been more sweeping than in any other sector of the university. Pharmaceutical companies sponsor daily lunches for medical students, during which they market their latest drugs; they ply professors with fancy dinners, gifts, luxurious trips and free prescriptions designed to influence their medical decisions and prescribing habits. These academic "opinion leaders" consult for, or hold equity in, the same firms that manufacture the drugs they are studying, while also often accepting generous fees to join their corporate advisory boards and speakers' bureaus. Sometimes they even hold the patent to the drug or device being tested. In a study of 800 scientific papers published in leading journals of medicine and molecular biology, Sheldon Krimsky, a professor of public policy at Tufts University, found that slightly more than a third of the lead authors based at research institutions in Massachusetts had a significant financial interest in their own reports. These included owning related patents, or holding an executive, advisory or major equity position in a company with a stake in the research.
So pervasive are such ties that journal editors now frequently complain they can no longer find academic experts who do not have a financial interest in a drug or therapy they would like to review. This may be good news for corporations, but it is anything but good news for ordinary citizens. Indeed, the growing nexus between universities and the pharmaceutical industry could not come at a worse time. The cost of pharmaceutical drugs--and health care in general--in America continues to skyrocket. Expensive new drugs are aggressively marketed on TV and in doctors' offices the moment they hit the market. Yet physicians warn that many of these hyped prescriptions are simply "me-too drugs" that vary only slightly from medications already on the market, despite being far more expensive. Research suggests that publicly funded science, most of it performed at universities, was a "critical contributor" to the discovery of nearly all of the 25 most important breakthrough drugs introduced between 1970 and 1995. If university scientists lose their independence, who will perform this pathbreaking research and objectively evaluate the safety and effectiveness of drugs already on the market? Independence in jeopardy
Unfortunately, it is this scholarly independence that is now in jeopardy. "The boundaries between the academic medical colleges and the drug companies are becoming ever more porous," says Marcia Angell, a senior lecturer at Harvard's School of Public Health and former editor in chief of the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM). "It used to be that academic medical colleges said, 'OK, we will take this industry grant and do the study, but our researchers are going to retain the data; they are going to analyze the data.' Now this arm's-length relationship has broken down."
Indeed, there are strong indications that university-based medicine is losing its hallowed objectivity. After conducting an extensive review of the medical literature for an article in the NEJM, Thomas Bodenheimer, an internist at University of California, San Francisco, found that academic investigators were rapidly ceding to industry the control over nearly every stage of the clinical research process.
In the past, for example, it was common for university scientists to initiate the research protocol. Now, however, studies are frequently conceived and designed in the company's own pharmacological and marketing departments, thus removing this formative stage of the research from academic hands almost entirely. The company then shops the study around to various academic institutions (and a growing number of competing for-profit entities as well), in search of investigators to conduct the research. Should a professor choose to reject the study or insist on changes not agreeable to the sponsor, another university scientist will very likely be more solicitous.
In this way, industry is slowly changing the direction of academic research, causing it to be far more market-driven and less directed toward truly important science. Not surprisingly, wrote Bodenheimer, exercising control over trial design makes it far easier for companies to build biases into their research--some easier and some harder to detect. One analysis by Paula Rochon, published in the Archives of Internal Medicine, found that in 54 percent of corporate-sponsored arthritis drug trials, the dose of the funding company's drug was higher than that of the comparison drug, so that the results were clearly skewed in the sponsor's favor.
Another disturbing trend in university medicine today is the growing use of ghostwriters and "guest writers." Readers may see a prominent academic's name at the top of a research article or review, but that scholar may or may not be the person who actually wrote the paper. Frequently, a big-name professor or department chair is invited to appear as a "guest author," even though she or he had no involvement in the research. Or in the case of company-initiated studies and reviews, the manuscript may have been ghostwritten by a medical communications company working for the drug maker, and its author may have been paid an honorarium to attach his or her name to it. The average reader thus thinks the study bears the stamp of approval of an independent academic scholar, when in fact this is nothing more than an illusion. The Lancet commented on this alarming phenomenon in an editorial, noting with some bitterness that "the pinnacle of success, presumably, is to sign up a prominent academic" to lend an aura of objectivity and prestige to the company's research.
The practice of ghostwriting has become extremely prevalent, raising troubling questions about the trustworthiness of the science appearing in even the most prestigious medical journals. As Richard Horton, editor of The Lancet, caustically observed in 2004, "Journals have devolved into information-laundering operations for the pharmaceutical industry." Buried data
Regulating access to the raw data from a large, multisite trial is yet another tactic the drug industry commonly deploys to skew medical research in its favor. Sometimes the principal investigators are given unimpeded access, but increasingly companies prefer to control the data themselves. Frequently, explained Bodenheimer, studies are designed with multiple end points (or measurable outcomes), so that it is relatively easy for the company to "publish those end points favorable to their product and bury data on less favorable end points."
Recently, M. Michael Wolfe, a gastroenterologist at Boston University, publicly disclosed that Pharmacia Corporation, the manufacturer of the blockbuster arthritis drug Celebrex, had duped him in precisely this manner. In the summer of 2000, the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) asked Wolfe to write a review of a Celebrex study showing that the drug was associated with lower rates of stomach and intestinal ulcers and other complications than two older arthritis medications (diclofenac and ibuprofen). Wolfe found the study, tracking eight thousand patients over a six-month period, persuasive and penned a favorable review, which helped to drive up Celebrex sales. But early the next year, when he had occasion to review the same study again--this time while serving on the Food and Drug Administration's arthritis advisory committee--Wolfe was flabbergasted by what he saw. Pharmacia's study had run for one year, not six months, as both Wolfe and JAMA had been led to believe. When the complete data set was considered, most of Celebrex's advantages disappeared because the ulcer complications that occurred during the second half of the study were disproportionately found in patients taking Celebrex. "I am furious ... I wrote the editorial," Wolfe told the Washington Post. "I looked like a fool. But ... all I had available to me was the data presented in the article." None of the original study's sixteen authors, including eight university professors, had spoken out publicly about the suppression of data. All the authors were either employees of Pharmacia or paid consultants of the company. The sordid story of SSRIs
Industry also manipulates academic research by suppressing negative studies altogether. Consider the recent medical scandal surrounding the class of antidepressants known as selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), which have been linked to an increased risk of suicidal thinking and behavior in young people. Throughout the latter half of the '90s, the number of young Americans being given Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft and other antidepressants skyrocketed. By 2002, roughly 11 million prescriptions had been handed out. Boys under the age of 12 diagnosed with "conduct disorders" were the fastest-growing group. The bulk of the published academic literature strongly supported treating depressed children and adolescents with SSRIs. As it turns out, however, this recommendation was at odds with what the complete research record showed. In early 2004, an FDA scientist reviewed all 15 pediatric SSRI studies in the agency's files, including many that had never been published. In all but three of those studies, young patients suffering from depression experienced no greater improvement taking an SSRI than they did with a placebo, or sugar pill. Given that scientists were very likely involved in a large portion of this research and duty-bound to publish, how did so much of this negative evidence drop from public view?
In June 2004, this question made its way into the headlines when New York attorney general Eliot Spitzer filed suit against GlaxoSmithKline (GSK), the manufacturer of Paxil, charging that the company had "engaged in repeated and persistent fraud by misrepresenting, concealing and otherwise failing to disclose" information showing that its drug was not only ineffective in treating child and adolescent depression but also linked to an increased risk of suicidal thoughts and self-injurious behavior. GSK had funded five studies on Paxil and childhood depression, only one of which ever got published. Taken together, however, the data clearly showed that those children who took Paxil were approximately two times more at risk of becoming suicidal than those taking a placebo. Parents of children who had committed suicide, along with a small minority of psychiatrists, had been suggesting for some time that there appeared to be a link between SSRIs and suicide, but until these revelations, their concerns had been largely discredited.
Unfortunately, GSK wasn't the only company burying research in this way. When Andrew Mosholder, a senior FDA epidemiologist, examined 22 pediatric studies, he found that children taking a wide range of antidepressants were also nearly twice as likely as those given a placebo to show signs of becoming suicidal--a finding that his FDA supervisors initially sought to suppress but was later corroborated by an independent research team at Columbia University. What was perplexing was that nearly all of the published literature, authored by many of the leading lights of academic psychiatry, had arrived at the opposite conclusion: SSRIs were safe and effective in treating depression in youngsters. Was this really what their academic studies showed?
When the FDA and other independent scientists took a closer look, they found a striking discrepancy between what these esteemed academic psychiatrists had written in their papers--and what the data actually revealed. In a surprising number of cases, the benefits of these drugs were overstated, and the problems were downplayed or buried. The only GSK study of Paxil that ever got published, for example, concluded that the data "provides evidence of the safety and efficacy of [Paxil] in the treatment of adolescent depression." (On the basis of this one study, GSK launched a massive promotional campaign telling its sales representatives going out to doctors' offices that Paxil had "REMARKABLE Efficacy and Safety in the treatment of adolescent depression.") But when an FDA examiner studied the data more closely, he found the authors' claims highly exaggerated, as the drug actually failed on the protocol's two primary measured outcomes. The study also concluded that "most adverse events were not serious," when, in fact, seven of the children who took Paxil had to be hospitalized after suffering severe adverse effects from the drug.
Eighteen of the Paxil study's 22 authors were university scholars. Its lead author, Martin B. Keller, is a highly acclaimed psychiatrist and chair of the psychiatry department at Brown University who has extensive ties to the drug industry. In 1998, when the Rhode Island attorney-general's office forced Keller to forfeit hundreds of thousands of dollars in state grant money to settle a financial fraud inquiry, it came to light that Keller had received more than half a million dollars from drug companies that year, most of it from the same firms whose drugs he had touted in journals and at medical conferences. According to the Boston Globe, Keller's financial ties were so numerous that they prompted the National Institute of Mental Health to review its conflict-of-interest rules. The most recent publicly available data shows that as of June 2003, Keller had been consulting for at least 17 major drug firms, including Merck, Bristol-Myers, Eli Lilly and Pfizer, while also working under a $25 million research grant from Wyeth-Ayerst.
It is impossible to prove a direct causal relationship between Keller's funding sources and the distortions found in his research. But at least three other studies authored by prominent academic psychiatrists on the pediatric use of SSRIs evidenced similar distortions--and all the authors had financial ties to the manufacturers. One of these was a 2003 study published in JAMA led by Karen Wagner, a renowned psychiatrist and director of the Division of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry at the University of Texas Medical Branch. The study claimed that the antidepressant Zoloft was "effective and well tolerated for children and adolescents." But when the FDA and other outside experts examined the data from the two pooled studies more closely, they again found that the drug had failed to demonstrate positive outcomes. In fact, according to one analysis, when data left out of the published study were included, Zoloft had "an unfavorable risk-benefit balance." In other words, the risks associated with taking the drug were greater than the anticipated benefits. At the time of this study, Wagner reported receiving research money from numerous pharmaceutical companies, consulting for 10 drug firms, and participating in speakers' bureaus for Abbott Laboratories, Eli Lilly, GlaxoSmithKline, Forest Laboratories, Pfizer and Novartis. The study itself had been funded by Pfizer, the maker of Zoloft, and the "study supervisor" held stock options in the company. Finally, the FDA criticized two Prozac studies (1997, 2002) for overstating the drug's efficacy in treating childhood depression. Both studies had been led by Graham Emslie, a professor at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center, and financed by Eli Lilly, the maker of Prozac. Emslie receives research support from industry; he also consults and serves on speakers' bureaus of numerous drug companies, including Bristol-Myers, Eli Lilly and Wyeth-Ayerst.
In December 2003, when the faulty nature of this research finally came to light, it prompted a quick response from the British Drug Authority, which recommended that doctors not prescribe SSRI antidepressant drugs to children under 18, citing a two- to threefold increase in the risk of suicidal behavior and insufficient evidence of benefit. Nearly one year later, in October 2004, the FDA announced that all such antidepressants must carry a "black box" warning label linking the drugs to an increased risk of suicidal thoughts and behavior in children and teenagers. Where's the media?
Sadly these government warnings and restrictions have done little to address the underlying problem: The growing influence of pharmaceutical companies on academic medicine and research. When the American media tried to sort out the implications of the FDA's new warning label on the SSRI drugs, the first experts they turned to were often the same academics who had been implicated in overlooking the SSRI drugs' problems. In one story, the Chicago Tribune asserted that "a number of mental health experts cautioned that the strict warning label could discourage the use of antidepressants by adolescents who need them." It went on to quote Graham Emslie, one of the doctors who had overstated the drugs' benefits relative to his research data. None of Emslie's financial ties to the drugs' manufacturers were ever mentioned in the story. Emslie was simply identified as "the chief of child and adolescent psychiatry at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center." Could anything sound more credible than that?
Thus far, neither the federal government nor the universities themselves have been willing to adopt strict conflict-of-interest guidelines. Unless the media and medical journals vigorously investigate these commercial ties--and bring them to the public's attention--the drug industry will continue to exploit the aura of objectivity and independence that our universities command, eroding the academic mission and causing great harm to the medical enterprise and public health.
Jennifer Washburn is a freelance journalist and a fellow at the New America Foundation. This article has been adapted from her book University Inc: The Corporate Corruption of Higher Education (Basic Books 2005).
http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2138/
Dr. Wayne Simon - 12 Jun 2005 06:55 GMT It is true that when a major drug company gives you a contract or a grant to do a study, two things may often occur. One it may be part of a multicenter study, so you as an author are only in control of part of the data, and data from all centers may be used in the publication. Secondly, most studies done have a proviso on them about the company getting the right to not have the data published, but I can never remember a company actually stopping a publication. I'm sure it must happen. Also when a peer reviewed article is being reviewed, sometimes one or more of the reviewers may have some unusual requests of the author. Usually u can explain those situations away, to the editor but not always. I suspect a very negative study might be requested to have a publication held, but the data has to be reported to the FDA. Not sure how valid this point is today, but the scrutiny over safety in foreign studies, may be even less rigorous than in the U.S. But this may vary by country, as some European countries keep maticulous databases on all diseases while still maintaining patient privacy.
outrider - 12 Jun 2005 08:28 GMT "...most studies
> done have a proviso on them about the company getting the right to not have > the data published, but I can never remember a company actually stopping a > publication. I'm sure it must happen." You bet it happens. Censure on publishing negative data, or even speaking of it to protect patients.
Nancy Olivieri: http://www.healthcoalition.ca/nancy.html http://www.doctorsintegrity.org/exist/Apotex_UofT/apotex_role.htm http://www.caut.ca/en/issues/academicfreedom/OlivieriInquiryReport.pdf
David Healy http://www.caut.ca/en/bulletin/issues/2001_oct/news/healy.asp http://www.pharmapolitics.com/
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Nancy Olivieri was one of the recent winners of the first annual Vanessa Award for Public Guardians. Briefly, Olivieri and other whistle blowers was harrassed, lost jobs and appointments, had their scientific reputations smeared, and one died; as a result of the stand each took on behalf of the public, their patients, and against industry and Health Canada attempts to silence and censure them, and use them as examples.
They public guardians, but they had to fight pharma efforts to silence them. The Vanessa Awards will be held annually in honour of 15 year old Vanessa Young who died after taking propulsid. Negative information on this drug was supressed by Johnson and Johnson, who knew propulsid killed. A beautiful gifted young woman and many others died unnecessarily because industry lied.
June 10, 2005 Lucrative Drug, Danger Signals and the F.D.A. By GARDINER HARRIS and ERIC KOLI
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/10/business/10drug.html?hp&ex=11184624...
Dozens had died and more than 100 patients had suffered serious heart problems by March 1998 after taking Propulsid, a popular medicine for heartburn. Infants, given the drug to treat acid reflux, seemed particularly at risk. Federal officials told Propulsid's manufacturer, Johnson & Johnson, that the drug might have to be banned for children, or even withdrawn altogether. Instead, the government and the company negotiated new warnings for the drug's label - though not nearly as tough as regulators had wanted.
Propulsid had a good year anyway. Sales continued to surpass $1 billion. Johnson & Johnson continued to underwrite efforts that promoted Propulsid's use in children. A survey that year found that about 20 percent of babies in neonatal intensive care units were being given the drug.
Two years later, as reports of heart injuries and deaths mounted, Johnson & Johnson continued defending the safety of Propulsid, but then pulled it from the market before a government hearing threatened to draw attention to the drug's long, largely hidden, record of trouble.
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http://www.healthcoalition.ca/nancy-award.pdf
"The following nominees will accept the Vanessa Young Award at 11:30 AM as part of a day long Roundtable Discussion on The Precautionary Principle and Canada's Approach to Risk, beginning at 9 AM (see www.medicare.ca for more details). All are welcome for the awards ceremony."
Nominees: Michele Brill-Edwards, MD (ex-Health Canada drug regulator) Pierre Blais, Ph.D. (blew the whistle on the dangers of breast implants) Shiv Chopra, D.V.M. (fired Health Canada veterinary scientist) Margaret Haydon, D.V.M. (fired Health Canada veterinary scientist) Gerard Lambert, D.V.M. (fired Health Canada veterinary scientist) Nancy Olivieri, MD (medical research scientist) Chris Basudde, D.V.M., Posthumous (Health Canada veterinary scientist) Nicholas Regush, Posthumous (investigative journalist)
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> It is true that when a major drug company gives you a contract or a grant to > do a study, two things may often occur. One it may be part of a multicenter [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > vary by country, as some European countries keep maticulous databases on all > diseases while still maintaining patient privacy. Dr. Wayne Simon - 14 Jun 2005 03:58 GMT What does health canada have to do with the FDA? Are they doing studies in the U.S.?
Robert - 14 Jun 2005 05:00 GMT > What does health canada have to do with the FDA? Are they doing studies in > the U.S.? She is a Canadian with a posting history that is self evident. Health Canada is in trouble and most Canadians are posting negative aspects on US health care issues to warn Canadians how bad the US system is in the hopes of maintaining the socialistic Health Canada. The courts in Canada recently issued this.
"The court ruled that the waiting lists had become so long that they violated patients "life and personal security,inviolability and freedom" under the Quebec charter of human rights and freedoms. The evidence in this case shows that delays in the public health care system are widespread, and that, in some cases, patients die as a result of waiting lists for public health care,"the Supreme Court ruled. "In sum, the prohibition on obtaining private health insurance is not constitutional where the public system fails to deliver reasonable services.."........
Some Canadians hope by discrediting drug companies that they can be have governmental control over research institutions, scientists and all health product development and reduce expenses.
They want to expand Health Canada and have government control everything.
As you state their is no reason why any Canadian would be interested in the FDA. These people publish for home consumption.
bae@cs.toronto.no-uce.edu - 14 Jun 2005 06:51 GMT >> What does health canada have to do with the FDA? Are they doing studies >in [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >care issues to warn Canadians how bad the US system is in the hopes of >maintaining the socialistic Health Canada. Health Canada is a federal government organization while health insurance systems are at the provincial level. Health Canada is about as "socialistic" as the FDA or CDC or NIH. It has functions similar to these US federal organizations.
Perhaps you should restrain your conspiracy theorizing to things you have some actual facts about. You clearly have minimal knowledge about the Canadian federal and provincial governments relative to health and health care.
Robert - 14 Jun 2005 08:18 GMT > >> What does health canada have to do with the FDA? Are they doing studies > >in [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Canadian federal and provincial governments relative to health and health > care. Federally mandated socialistic program and under provincial control that has prevented any private competition what so ever.To deny that it is not socialistic is crazy. That is not similiar to any FDA or CDC I know of. This is from a Canadian below and the question still stands. Why are Canadians interested in the FDA or health concerns in the US?
"The Canadian public health system is often put forward as an ideal for Americans to emulate. It provides all Canadians with free basic health care: free doctors' visits, free hospital ward care, free surgery, free drugs and medicine while in the hospital -- plus some free dental care for children as well as free prescription drugs and other services for the over-65 and welfare recipients. You just show your plastic medicare card and you never see a medical bill.
This extensive national health system was begun in the late 1950s with a system of publicly funded hospital insurance, and completed in the late 1960s and early 1970s when comprehensive health insurance was put into place. The federal government finances about 40 per cent of the costs, provided the provinces set up a system satisfying federal norms. All provincial systems thus are very similar, and the Quebec case which we will examine is fairly typical.
One immediate problem with public health care is with the funding. Those usually attracted to such a "free" system are the poor and the sick -- those least able to pay. A political solution is to force everybody to enroll in the system, which amounts to redistributing income towards participants with higher health risks or lower income. This is why the Canadian system is universal and compulsory.
Even if participation is compulsory in the sense that everyone has to pay a health insurance premium (through general or specific taxes), some individuals will be willing to pay a second time to purchase private insurance and obtain private care. If you want to avoid this double system, you do as in Canada: you legislate a monopoly for the public health insurance system.
This means that although complementary insurance (providing private or semi-private hospital rooms, ambulance services, etc.) is available on the market, sale of private insurance covering the basic insured services is forbidden by law. Even if a Canadian wants to purchase basic private insurance besides the public coverage, he cannot find a private company legally allowed to satisfy his demand.
In this respect, the Canadian system is more socialized than in many other countries. In the United Kingdom, for instance, one can buy private health insurance even if government insurance is compulsory.
In Canada, then, health care is basically a socialized industry. In the Province of Quebec, 79 per cent of health expenditures are public. Private health expenditures go mainly for medicines, private or semi-private hospital rooms, and dental services. The question is: how does such a system perform?
The Costs of Free Care.........
Robert - 14 Jun 2005 09:42 GMT Part II
"Although participating doctors may not charge more than the rates reimbursed directly to them by the government, theoretically they may opt out of the system. But because private insurance for basic medical needs isn't available, there are few customers, and less than one per cent of Quebec doctors work outside the public health system. The drafting of virtually all doctors into the public system is the first major consequence of legally forbidding private insurers from competing with public health insurance.
The second consequence is that a real private hospital industry cannot develop. Without insurance coverage, hospital care costs too much for most people. In Quebec, there is only one private for-profit hospital (an old survivor from the time when the government would issue a permit to that kind of institution) but it has to work within the public health insurance system and with government-allocated budgets.
The monopoly of basic health insurance has led to a single, homogeneous public system of health care delivery. In such a public monopoly, bureaucratic uniformity and lack of entrepreneurship add to the costs. The system is slow to adjust to changing demands and new technologies. For instance, day clinics and home care are underdeveloped as there exist basically only two types of general hospitals: the non-profit local hospital and the university hospital. ..........
Nationalization of the health industry also has led to increased centralization and politicization. Work stoppages by nurses and hospital workers have occurred half a dozen times over the last 20 years, and this does not include a few one-day strikes by doctors. Ambulance services and dispatching have been centralized under government control. As this article was being written, ambulance drivers and paramedics were working in jeans, they had covered their vehicles with protest stickers, and they were dangerously disrupting operations. The reason: they want the government to finish nationalizing what remains under private control in their industry.
When possible, doctors and nurses have voted with their feet. A personal anecdote will illustrate this. When my youngest son was born in California in 1978, the obstetrician was from Ontario and the nurse came from Saskatchewan. The only American-born in the delivery room was the baby. ......
Socialized medicine has had a telling effect on the public mind. In Quebec, 62 per cent of the population now think that people should pay nothing to see a doctor; 82 per cent want hospital care to remain free. People have come to believe that it is normal for the state to take care of their health. .........
A second lesson is the danger of political compromise. One social policy tends to lead to another. Take, for example, the introduction of hospital insurance in Canada. It encouraged doctors to send their patients to hospitals because it was cheaper to be treated there. The political solution was to nationalize the rest of the industry. Distortions from one government intervention often lead to more intervention. ........
"
Earle Horton - 14 Jun 2005 15:48 GMT It's too bad you folks don't have weapons of mass destruction and genocide. It really sounds as if you need an invasion to set you back on the right track.
Earle
> Part II > [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > " Robert - 14 Jun 2005 19:11 GMT > It's too bad you folks don't have weapons of mass destruction and genocide. > It really sounds as if you need an invasion to set you back on the right > track. > > Earle Earle, just a point of clarification here. You have a few Canadians, one is a Canadian journalists that started this post, who constantly post about US healthcare PROBLEMS. They have covered from US scientists lying about research, drug and health care corruption, doctors corrupted by drug money, FDA corrupted by everybody. I posted my opinion as to why they do that what is yours? I returned the favor about posting information about Canadian Health and you mention weapons of mass destruction. Can any Canadian tell me what they, Canadians, have to gain by posting US healthcare problems of that nature? Should I, a US citizen, continually posts about problems on Canadian Health?
Earle Horton - 14 Jun 2005 19:55 GMT Robert,
I was just saying that if Canada had WMD and genocide, we could help them. They don't, so we leave them to their own devices. If you lose your sense of humor, you have lost it all.
Seriously, Canadians who want to promote their own system, can do so by criticizing the "evils" of ours. If we on the other hand don't want creeping socialism to destroy what remains of our health care system, we can attempt to defend it by pointing out the "evils" that prevail in Canada.
Earle
> > It's too bad you folks don't have weapons of mass destruction and > genocide. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > healthcare problems of that nature? > Should I, a US citizen, continually posts about problems on Canadian Health? Robert - 14 Jun 2005 21:28 GMT > Robert, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Earle OK, got it. I forgot to answer the point about conspiracy by Bae. There is a political party in Canada that wants to open up the health care to private healthcare. The other party wants to maintain it a total socialistic system. The evils of the private healthcare system are always taunted by that party for Canadian consumption. The Supreme Court there said people are dying waiting in line and there response is that private healthcare in the US is evil. Conspiracy? Yes. That's what political parties are for.
Andrew Heenan - 19 Jun 2005 13:02 GMT "Earle Horton" trolled...
> It's too bad you folks don't have weapons of mass destruction and > genocide. > It really sounds as if you need an invasion to set you back on the right > track. *plonk*
Herman Rubin - 14 Jun 2005 17:50 GMT >What does health canada have to do with the FDA? Are they doing studies in >the U.S.? The FDA has long refused to consider medical studies done outside the US, causing long delays in approving drugs.
Also, while SOME people in the FDA realize it, every drug has risks and benefits. Unless there is a public health issue involved, the FDA should not decide how to balance the risks and benefits, but should see that the information is provided so that the individual can assess them.
 Signature This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University. Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
Robert - 14 Jun 2005 19:18 GMT > >What does health canada have to do with the FDA? Are they doing studies in > >the U.S.? > > The FDA has long refused to consider medical studies done > outside the US, causing long delays in approving drugs. Vioxx was developed by Canadian researchers. The Canadian government said it did not fast track approval of the drug although some Canadian politicians have stated so.
Herman Rubin - 14 Jun 2005 20:19 GMT >> >What does health canada have to do with the FDA? Are they doing studies >in >> >the U.S.?
>> The FDA has long refused to consider medical studies done >> outside the US, causing long delays in approving drugs.
>Vioxx was developed by Canadian researchers. The Canadian government said it >did not fast track approval of the drug although some Canadian politicians >have stated so. The FDA should have insisted that the full information be presented all along, and that it should be up to the individual to decide. This should still be the case now.
At no time has this information been available, and it is not now.
 Signature This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University. Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
Robert - 14 Jun 2005 21:47 GMT > >> >What does health canada have to do with the FDA? Are they doing studies > >in [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > At no time has this information been available, and it is > not now. The drug was withdrawn. Maybe on reintroduction the FDA will force them to do so. The FDA walkes a tight rope. The other COX2 drugs by competitors are still out there. The FDA is out there to help business and to protect consumers. Fine line.
Herman Rubin - 15 Jun 2005 02:46 GMT >> >> >What does health canada have to do with the FDA? Are they doing >studies >> >in >> >> >the U.S.?
>> >> The FDA has long refused to consider medical studies done >> >> outside the US, causing long delays in approving drugs.
>> >Vioxx was developed by Canadian researchers. The Canadian government said >it >> >did not fast track approval of the drug although some Canadian >politicians >> >have stated so.
>> The FDA should have insisted that the full information be >> presented all along, and that it should be up to the >> individual to decide. This should still be the case now.
>> At no time has this information been available, and it is >> not now.
>The drug was withdrawn. Maybe on reintroduction the FDA will force them to >do so. The FDA walkes a tight rope. The other COX2 drugs by competitors are >still out there. Should the drug have been withdrawn? Not as I see it; give the information, and let people decide.
>The FDA is out there to help business and to protect consumers. >Fine line. It is good to protect consumers from their ignorance by providing information. When one tries to protect people from their stupidity, the intelligence of those doing it comes immediately into question.
 Signature This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University. Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
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