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Medical Forum / General / General / June 2005Diabetes / meat / iron levels
Knowing what the recent findings of iron levels TO .. metabolic syndrome / diabetes .. state .. "clearly linked" .. then the finding BELOW .. of .. "Surprisingly, the prevalence " .. is NO .. surprise .. Eh .. Higher iron levels IN .. those .. WITH .. higher prevalence of .. diabetes .... Conclusion of the study .. IS .. meat / heme iron LEADS TO INCREASED IRON LEVELS .. and .. 'coincidentally' .. INCREASED PREVALENCE OF .. diabetes .. http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0CUH/is_10_25/ai_92798667/pg_2 Surprisingly, the prevalence of diabetes in Unmmannaq was higher than that in the towns of Nuuk and Qasigiannguit http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=11168519 The prevalence of iron load (ferritin >200 microg/L) was lowest in Nuuk (men: 13.8%, women: 2.3%) intermediate in Ilulissat (men, 11.1%; women, 9.1%) and highest in Uummannaq (men, 32.1%; women, 21.1%). CONCLUSION: The observed differences in estimated body iron stores in Greenlanders from the three residential areas can be explained by differences in the dietary intake of **haem iron** / meat. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking nazi freak. Racist scum. Begone from this newsgroup and go post your nazi threads on alt.whitenoy Heh .. heh .. What .. a fkg .. maroon ,, That card was attempted long before .. you .. Actually I think it was the 'antisemitic' .. card .. But .. the same card .. nonetheless .. Last bastion of a fkg .. goof .. Now should I post .. AGAIN .. your .. 'mentors' .. thoughts .. OF .. the .. Semites .. ? Heh .. heh . FO .. creepy .. little .. fk .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking <redbear55@bigmailbox.net> > Is a crossposting idiot. > Stop crossposters by using this message as [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the sooner they'll learn. > Keep The Internet Free - of Idiots Andrew ;o) *plonk* Notice they mention coffee and milk is good for you. Annu Rev Public Health. 2005 Apr 21;26:445-467. Related Articles, Books, LinkOut PRIMARY PREVENTION OF DIABETES: What Can Be Done and How Much Can Be Prevented? Schulze MB, Hu FB. Departments of Nutrition1 and Epidemiology,2 Harvard School of Public Health, Boston, Massachusetts 02115; email: mschulze@mail.dife.de , frank.hu@channing.harvard.edu , 3Channing Laboratory, Department of Medicine, Brigham and Women's Hospital and Harvard Medical School, Boston, Massachusetts 02115. Although it is widely believed that type 2 diabetes mellitus is the result of a complex interplay between genetic and environmental factors, compelling evidence from epidemiologic studies indicates that the current worldwide diabetes epidemic is largely due to changes in diet and lifestyle. Prospective cohort studies and randomized clinical trials have demonstrated that type 2 diabetes can be prevented largely through moderate diet and lifestyle modifications. Excess adiposity is the most important risk factor for diabetes, and thus, maintaining a healthy body weight and avoiding weight gain during adulthood is the cornerstone of diabetes prevention. Increasing physical activity and reducing sedentary behaviors such as prolonged TV watching are important both for maintaining body weight and improving insulin sensitivity. There is increasing evidence that the quality of fat and carbohydrate plays a more important role than does the quantity, and thus, public health strategies should emphasize replacing saturated and trans fats with unsaturated fats and replacing refined grain products with whole grains. Recent studies have also suggested a potential role for coffee, dairy, nuts, magnesium, and calcium in preventing diabetes. Overall, a healthy diet, together with regular physical activity, maintenance of a healthy weight, moderate alcohol consumption, and avoidance of sedentary behaviors and smoking, could nearly eliminate type 2 diabetes. However, there is still a wide gap between what we know and what we practice in the field of public health; how to narrow that gap remains a major public health challenge. PMID: 15760297 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher] "However, there is still a wide gap between what we know and what we practice in the field of public health; how to narrow that gap remains a major public health challenge." !Hell Yes! !GO to HELL! Kindly refrain from postinf OFF topic .. which is MEAT = elevated iron .. levels .. Do you .. u-n-d-e-r-s-t-a-n-d ..HOW .. research is .. conducted .. ? You don't all of a sudden begin to study something .. ELSE .. when .. you are concentrating ON .. one .. marker .. Or .. are you braindead ..? The thread in case you actually WISH to understand ... is .. increased meat consumption .. parallels the rise in iron levels .. which has the researchers hypothesising the rise in iron levels is DUE TO the INCREASED .. consumption .. OF .. meat .. / heme iron. So since we NOW know .. researchers are hypothesising the link between iron levels and DIABETES is .. VERY STRONG .. and as the articles .. CLEARLY .. show .. the PREVALENCE of diabetes .. IN .. the Uummannaq ... is CLEARLY .. also .. higher .. The findings OF .. a 'surprise' .. in light of the NEWEST .. information .. CLEARLY .. shows .. iron levels PREDICTED the diabetes in the Uummannaq .. even though .. the researchers .. didn't .. Heh .. heh .. That would mean .. iron .. PREDICTED .. the diabetes .. Now .. seeing the post you just made .. one might think you are attempting AGAIN .. to detract .. FROM .. a cause of diabetes .. Eyesight losing , digit losing .. life losing .. diabetes .. Eh .. Heh .. heh .. Post .. your attempted distractions .. some .. more .. Heh .. heh .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking Kindly refrain from postinf OFF topic .. which is MEAT = elevated iron .. levels .. Do you .. u-n-d-e-r-s-t-a-n-d ..HOW .. research is .. conducted .. ? Yes. All research is preliminary until more research confirm initial findings. Don't you understand that? Medicine is applied science. It deals with what is and what what could be or should be. It deals with solid evidence and not inferences. The article I posted shows the state of diabetes interventions and it does not mention iron. Understand. I guess not not. You don't all of a sudden begin to study something .. ELSE .. when .. you are concentrating ON .. one .. marker .. It is not a marker. It is nothing. Nothing has been proven yet. Those are all hypothesis. You already take it as proof. Or .. are you braindead ..? The thread in case you actually WISH to understand ... is .. increased meat consumption .. parallels the rise in iron levels .. which has the researchers hypothesising the rise in iron levels is DUE TO the INCREASED .. consumption .. OF .. meat .. / heme iron. AND? You can have all the hypothesis in the world and they are still not a hypothesis is an UNPROVEN thought. They are a dime a dozen. Children don't even like meat. They don't and have not all of a sudden eaten more meat causing the epidemic of type two diabetes. Let me repeat children now are getting at a younger age type 2 diabetes and it is not related to iron. Iron deficiency anemia is very common in children. The IQ or how smart they are is affected by iron levels so that is important to get them to eat meat. They don't like meat and thus have low iron levels. Not a good thing. >>That would mean .. iron .. PREDICTED .. the diabetes << You .. disagree with the above .. statement ..? Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking >>That would mean .. iron .. PREDICTED .. the diabetes << You .. disagree with the above .. statement ..? It is a hypothesis not a statement of fact. Childhood diabetes has increased dramatically in recent years and you are saying that iron is the reason? They are eating more meat and getting diabetes right? What is your explanation of more children getting diabetes earlier with type 2 than their parents? Am J Orthopsychiatry. 2002 Apr;72(2):182-93. Related Articles, Books, LinkOut Nutrition and brain development: social policy implications. Tanner EM, Finn-Stevenson M. Department of Social Policy and Social Work and Nuffield College, University of Oxford, Oxford, England. Undernutrition among young children is widespread in the United States and has a detrimental impact on brain development. This article explores the risks associated with undernutrition and the potential for recovery when diet and the environment improve. Three policy implications are discussed: (a) increasing access to federal food programs, (b) promoting breastfeeding, and (c) working toward reducing child poverty. PMID: 15792058 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking >>That would mean .. iron .. PREDICTED .. the diabetes << >>You .. disagree with the above .. statement << I asked you a simple .. question .. Answer it .. The iron LEVELS .. predicted .. the diabetes .. WHEREAS .. the researchers .. DIDN'T .. Yes or .. no .. Pretty .. simple .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.?com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com /iron?justice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING! http://pages.ivillage.com/iron?justice/deadpeoplewalking >>That would mean .. iron .. PREDICTED .. the diabetes << >>You .. disagree with the above .. statement << I asked you a simple .. question .. Simple answer is where in the diabetes article does it mention iron and where in the iron article does it mention diabetes? Answer it .. Two different articles you cite and nowhere does it relate the two. I have no idea what you are talking about "predicting" anything. The iron LEVELS .. predicted .. the diabetes .. WHEREAS .. the researchers .. DIDN'T .. Yes or .. no .. Show me where that happened. Certainly not in the articles you cited. I have no idea what you are babbling about. Pretty .. simple .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.?com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com /iron?justice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING! http://pages.ivillage.com/iron?justice/deadpeoplewalking >>no idea what you are babbling about<< So WHY .. are you even .. IN .. this particular .. thread ..? You weren't able to put the factors together .. LIKE .. I .. pointed out HAD to BE .. done .. ? You just stepped on the articles / post / thread .. JUST .. like .. I said you .. did .. Eh .. Your .. stupidity is showing .. Ain't .. pretty .. One study ten years ago found highest IRON levels in Unmmannaq and the last study three years ago found highest DIABETES in Unmmannaq and the FIRST study .. ten years ago .. attributed the high IRON levels to the consumption of traditional foods .. seal .. whale .. fish .. You're right iron and diabetes are NOT .. 'mentioned together' .. in the articles .. BUT .. the villages .. ARE .. http://tinyurl.com/b693b Diabetes Care, Oct, 2002 Data were collected from March 1999 to April 2001 Surprisingly, the prevalence of diabetes in Unmmannaq was higher than that in the towns of Nuuk and Qasigiannguit http://tinyurl.com/43a7g Methods: Serum ferritin, serum transferrin saturation and haemoglobin were evaluated in a population survey in 1993-1994 RESULTS: Intake of traditional foods was more prevalent among elderly than among young individuals and more frequent in Uummannaq than in Ilulissat and Nuuk. Ferritin levels were higher in men than in women (p<0.0001). Median ferritin levels were lowest in Nuuk (men, 92 microg/L; women, 40 microg/L), higher in Ilulissat (men, 104 microg/L; women, 69 microg/L) and in Uummannaq (men, 118 microg/L; women, 46 microg/L) (p<0.001). The prevalence of iron load (ferritin >200 microg/L) was lowest in Nuuk (men: 13.8%, women: 2.3%) intermediate in Ilulissat (men, 11.1%; women, 9.1%) and highest in Uummannaq (men, 32.1%; women, 21.1%). CONCLUSION: The observed differences in estimated body iron stores in Greenlanders from the three residential areas can be explained by differences in the dietary intake of haem iron. PMID: 11168519, UI: 21099797 Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking > >>no idea what you are babbling about<< Taking two articles out of context and nailing them together is not science. Nails do not make a foundation. Read my fkg lips you two bit fkg .. loser .. The thread and QUESTION .. you were fkg asked .. or .. simply shut the fk .. up .. IS .. The ten year old study found high iron levels in X village .. higher than y and z ... and the study three years ago found higher diabetes in X village .. higher than y and z .. and THERFORE .. the iron levels PREDICTED .. the diabetes .. Yes or fkg .. no .. or .. stay the fk off the thread .. DO YOU FKG UNDERSTAND .. ? Or else stay off the fkg thread Or else stay off the fkg thread Or else stay off the fkg thread Or else stay off the fkg thread Or else stay off the fkg thread Or else stay off the fkg thread Or else stay off the fkg thread Or else stay off the fkg thread Or else stay off the fkg thread Or else stay off the fkg thread Or else stay off the fkg thread Or else stay off the fkg thread Or else stay off the fkg thread Or else stay off the fkg thread Or else stay off the fkg thread Do like you are .. fkg .. told .. Dig .. Who loves ya. Tom > Notice they mention coffee and milk is good for you. No, that isn't what it says. It says "Recent studies...suggested a POTENTIAL ROLE for coffee, dairy, nuts, magnesium, and calcium in preventing DIABETES." It does not say "milk is good for you," nor that foods providing potential risk reduction for one disease might not *increase* the risk of another. For example, from "Milk and Other Dietary Influences on Coronary Heart Disease" by William B. Grant, Ph.D.: "...ecological statistical results...present strong evidence for dietary non-fat milk playing an important role in the etiology of heart disease.30,32-34 A number of animal studies have also shown milk to be atherosclerotic.11,12 The author is not aware of any studies showing that non-fat milk or milk carbohydrates are not strongly associated with heart disease, most likely because milk is generally not considered a risk factor for heart disease, and, therefore, is not studied in conjunction with heart disease. A number of putative mechanisms have been identified that could make the link between non-fat milk consumption and heart disease, with unopposed Hcy (homocystein)production being most prominent among them. The fact that heart disease mortality rates remain high despite years of claiming that cholesterol is the primary risk factor for heart disease resulting in subsequent dietary reductions of fat and cholesterol in the general population, supports the idea that heart disease is not adequately understood by the medical system." 11. Kritchevsky D. Diet and atherosclerosis. Am J Pathol 1976;84:615-632. 12. Kritchevsky D. Dietary protein, cholesterol and atherosclerosis: A review of the early history. J Nutr 1995;125:589S-593S. 30. Armstrong BK, Mann JI, Adelstein AM, Eskin F. Commodity consumption and ischemic heart disease mortality, with special reference to dietary practices. J Chron Dis 1975;28:455-469. 32. Seely S. Diet and coronary disease: A survey of mortality rates and food consumption statistics of 24 countries. Med Hypoth 1981;7:907-918. 34. Seely S. Diet and coronary arterial disease: a statistical study. Int J Cardiol 1988;20:183-192. So the question becomes, "What does it *means* for something to be 'good for me?'" > > Notice they mention coffee and milk is good for you. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Dietary Influences on Coronary Heart Disease" by William B. Grant, > Ph.D.: So what you are saying is that milk is not dairy? Where in the article does it say that? Granted you think otherwise and supply other evidence but where does it say that in that article? > > > Notice they mention coffee and milk is good for you. > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Dietary Influences on Coronary Heart Disease" by William B. Grant, > > Ph.D.: > So what you are saying is that milk is not dairy? > Where in the article does it say that? Milk is dairy. But the article does not say "milk is good for you" as you claim. Or coffee, either. > Granted you think otherwise and supply other evidence but where does it say > that in that article? The reference had nothing to do with whether or not milk is dairy. It discussed milk as a contributing factor in heart disease. > > > > Notice they mention coffee and milk is good for you. > > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Milk is dairy. But the article does not say "milk is good for you" as > you claim. Or coffee, either I stand corrected. The article says "Recent studies have also suggested a potential role for coffee, dairy, nuts, magnesium, and calcium in preventing diabetes." I am to interpret that within the context of the article as meaning that milk is bad for you. Thanks for the correction. > > Granted you think otherwise and supply other evidence but where does > it say > > that in that article? > > The reference had nothing to do with whether or not milk is dairy. It > discussed milk as a contributing factor in heart disease. The topic was diabetes/meat/ iron levels, followed by things that may contribute or lessen diabetes. Your topic is milk and heart disease, go for it. The meditterean diet includes dairy. > > > > > Notice they mention coffee and milk is good for you. > > > > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > milk is bad for you. > Thanks for the correction. The point is that you "interpreted" an ambiguous study comment at all. There is nothing to interpret. A legitimate paraphrase of the comment would perhaps be that "milk appears to have potential health benefits, at least with respect to diabetes." It's factually wrong to say the study "mentions" that "milk" is "good for you." It's worse than a generalization. For one, diary is not just milk. Probiotic dairy is world's apart from uncultured dairy, and european's (if you want to talk about *their* diets) are far more inclined to it. Nor was this the focus of the study, so your conjecture is baseless. > > > Granted you think otherwise and supply other evidence but where does > > it say [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > contribute or lessen diabetes. Your topic is milk and heart disease, go for > it. The meditterean diet includes dairy. Dairy is a big subject. It's not just milk > > > > > > Notice they mention coffee and milk is good for you. > > > > > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > talk about *their* diets) are far more inclined to it. Nor was this > the focus of the study, so your conjecture is baseless. So the article I cited mentioned probiotic dairy and uncultured dairy and not just dairy that included milk? Thanks for bringing that up and maybe you should write the author of that article and tell him not to mention "dairy" but all the various components and don't forget to mention that you don't agree with his statements and he should rewrite them. I guess nobody reads the research articles for accuracy before publication. You might want to volunteer your skills. How many articles have you published by the way? Yes probiotic dairy is worlds apart and look at this article about it. "Probiotic dairy products lack scientific support The study added that this is essential given recent publications suggesting that commercial probiotic products do not comply with label claims, though agrees that this is not the case for the whole industry and notes that placebo-controlled, randomised studies have been carried out with "well-defined and well-described products. Useful information would include third party verification of stated levels and types of viable probiotics until the end of the product shelf life," added the scientists. Accurate labelling of the content of a probiotic product is, obviously, essential, but many studies have found the actual delivery of probiotic bacteria does not match the content claim information on their labels." One piece of research cited to back up this claim was that by Huff and published in the Canadian Family Physician (50:583-587), which stated that none of ten Lactobacillus products purchased in lower British Columbia, Canada, met label claims when looked at using streak plating from growth on blood agar." http://www.dairyreporter.com/productnews/news.asp?id=55986 > > > > Granted you think otherwise and supply other evidence but where > does [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Dairy is a big subject. It's not just milk Is beef dairy? I would imagine that milk and its derivatives like cheese is a big part of dairy but then I am not a farmer. Thanks for the big distinction. > > > > > > > Notice they mention coffee and milk is good for you. > > > > > > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > talk about *their* diets) are far more inclined to it. Nor was this > > the focus of the study, so your conjecture is baseless. > So the article I cited mentioned probiotic dairy and uncultured dairy and > not just dairy that included milk? > Thanks for bringing that up and maybe you should write the author of that > article and tell him not to mention "dairy" but all the various components > and don't forget to mention that you don't agree with his statements and he > should rewrite them. If you want to swing from your rope proclaiming that milk is "good for you," knock yourself out. But don't pretend that a tangential comment in a study whose focus was diabetes supports your viewpoint. Rather, find a study that does support what you think or say. > I guess nobody reads the research articles for accuracy before publication. In this case, it's the inaccuracy of a reader *after* publication. > You might want to volunteer your skills. > How many articles have you published by the way? [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Canada, met label claims when looked at using streak plating from growth on > blood agar." You probably have a point, but based on your irrational handling of the original material, why would I care? > http://www.dairyreporter.com/productnews/news.asp?id=55986 > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > a big part of dairy but then I am not a farmer. > Thanks for the big distinction. Distinctions are what science is all about. Making stuff up is what little kids do. > If you want to swing from your rope proclaiming that milk is "good for > you," knock yourself out. But don't pretend that a tangential comment > in a study whose focus was diabetes supports your viewpoint. Rather, > find a study that does support what you think or say. I would rather do both, swing from my own rope and cite professionals doing professional work in the field of diabetes that you don't agree with in what they write. Dairy's role in preventing diabetes. You don't like it tough. Go buy every magazine out there and rip out the page that says that. > > I guess nobody reads the research articles for accuracy before > publication. > > In this case, it's the inaccuracy of a reader *after* publication. You mean like inferring probiotic dairy vs non from the article. You have this psychic gift of knowing what the authors meant. > > You might want to volunteer your skills. > > How many articles have you published by the way? [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > You probably have a point, but based on your irrational handling of the > original material, why would I care? Irrational? They bring up the mention of dairy and the first thing I think of is milk and that is irrational? Let me take a wild guess here. I bet you are one of those mucous, lung glued Nomilk rational guys? > > http://www.dairyreporter.com/productnews/news.asp?id=55986 > > > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > Distinctions are what science is all about. Making stuff up is what > little kids do. You are right and the authors of that study made no distinctions when they mentioned dairy and you don't like it. Tough. > > If you want to swing from your rope proclaiming that milk is "good for > > you," knock yourself out. But don't pretend that a tangential comment [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > You mean like inferring probiotic dairy vs non from the article. > You have this psychic gift of knowing what the authors meant. You made a false claim and have no way to defend it. Do the words "Milk is good for you" appear in the article or not? I'll answer it for you. NO. > > > You might want to volunteer your skills. > > > How many articles have you published by the way? [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > Irrational? They bring up the mention of dairy and the first thing I think > of is milk and that is irrational? Thinking is not irrational. Attributing words to authors of a study by generalizing -- THAT'S irrational. > Let me take a wild guess here. I bet you are one of those mucous, lung glued > Nomilk rational guys? I had some breyers ice cream last night. God, it's good. > > > http://www.dairyreporter.com/productnews/news.asp?id=55986 > > > > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > mentioned dairy and you don't like it. > Tough. The statement "dairy has a potential role to play" does not translate to "Milk is good for you." Only a rep. for the dairy industry would be this dumb. > The statement "dairy has a potential role to play" does not translate > to "Milk is good for you." Only a rep. for the dairy industry would > be this dumb. Only a rep for ANY industry would be dumb enough to think "some can be good" translates to "it's always good". > > The statement "dairy has a potential role to play" does not translate > > to "Milk is good for you." Only a rep. for the dairy industry would > > be this dumb. > > Only a rep for ANY industry would be dumb enough to think > "some can be good" translates to "it's always good". That's correct some people are allergic to milk so they shouldn't drink milk. The irrational assumption I am making is that someone who is would know it doesn't apply to them. Not going to mention every exception to everything here. The authors were making generalizations and Peter doesn't like it. I make a generalization and Peter doesn't like it. Then he mentions probiotic crap that people haven't even heard and I post some info on it and he backs off. Last I heard dairy was a group of foods and I wonder what they have in common. Oh no lets not make generalizations. There is a demonstrated link with risk of diabetes and red meat, but not other animal sources of protein. Total iron is not related either, which leads one to consider that something in red meats is related to a higher risk. The higher saturated fat levels is one such possibility as other research shows a similar link with it and risk of diabetes. Consider: "Dietary iron intake and blood donations in relation to risk of type 2 diabetes" http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/79/1/70 Conclusions: Heme-iron intake from red meat sources is positively associated with the risk of type 2 diabetes. Total iron intake, heme-iron intake from non-red meat sources, and blood donations are not related to the risk of type 2 diabetes. >>Soooooo... what you are saying .. is .. Greenlanders .. in small .. villages .. eat lots of red .. meat .. Eh .. Well we should actually have a look at what .. Greenlanders .. eat .. Eh .. That would be .. fish .. and seal .. and whale .. and .. hmmm .. YOU .. tell .. ME .. Since you seem to think the Greenlanders eat alot of .. RED .. meat .. What KIND of .. red .. meat .. WOULD .. they BE .. eating ..? Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.?com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com << > References: > <1115760054.166355.176830@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> > <428248ad$0$3455$4d5ecec7@reader.city-net.com> I don't follow, my original post said nothing about greenland. It presented a study showing that red meat, but not total iron or iron from other meat sources nor giving blood were related to increased risk of diabetes in americans and their mixed diet. Now that you mention it, traditionally the natives of greenland ate mostly meat and had almost no diabetes. Perhaps you confuse me with another post? >>>Soooooo... what you are saying .. is .. Greenlanders .. in small .. >villages .. eat lots of red .. meat .. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >Man Is A Herbivore!=20 >http://pages.ivillage.com << Oh .. I .. see .. I post medical hypothesis .. using CERTAIN .. articles .. which speak to SPECIFIC .. markers .. which are VERY .. important .. IN .. this .. specific .. thread .. The meat eating / iron levels predicted the diabetes .. And you .. for some reason .. post .. DIFFERENT .. articles .. and THEN .. speak to .. THEM .. Doesn't PERTAIN .. to .. THIS .. thread .. BECAUSE .. the thread SPECIFICALLY .. had .. to use .. the articles posted BY .. me .. BECAUSE .. the articles included CERTAIN .. villages .. whose blood levels and diabetes levels had been .. checked .. INDEPEENDENTLY .. from each other .. using DIFFERENT .. researchers .. So .. I won't even bother to look into what you say .. simply because .. it .. doesn't PERTAIN .. to .. THIS .. specific .. thread .. Which is .. "meat eating / iron levels found IN these villages PREDICTED .. the diabetes .. found six years later .." Yep .. THAT .. is where YOU .. went .. wrong .. Who loves ya. Tom I would be happy to look at the original article to which you refer, but I'm not inclined to rumage through threads on another newsgroup to find it. In either case you have now made clear you are doing journalism about a thread and not science about the role of meat and diabetes. If the latter were the case any research bearing upon the question would be quite welcome. As it stands now, among americans red meat intake is related in some fashion to risk of diabetes, non red meat is not nor is the practice of blood giving nor is total iron intake. I look forward to learningabout the greenland article. Well .. since the thread .. NEEDS .. the .. specific .. articles supplied .. BECAUSE .. the markers USED .. specifically SPEAK .. to .. certain .. markers SUPPLIED ..by .. different .. researchers .. BUT .. about .. the SAME .. villages .. one wonders WHAT .. you are even DOING .. on / in .. THIS .. thread .. >>One study ten years ago found highest IRON levels in Unmmannaq and the last study three years ago found highest DIABETES in Unmmannaq and the FIRST study .. ten years ago .. attributed the high IRON levels to the consumption of traditional foods .. seal .. whale .. fish .. Iron and diabetes are NOT .. 'mentioned together' .. in the articles .. BUT .. the villages .. ARE .. http://tinyurl.com/b693b Diabetes Care, Oct, 2002 Data were collected from March 1999 to April 2001 Surprisingly, the prevalence of diabetes in Unmmannaq was higher than that in the towns of Nuuk and Qasigiannguit http://tinyurl.com/43a7g Methods: Serum ferritin, serum transferrin saturation and haemoglobin were evaluated in a population survey in 1993-1994 RESULTS: Intake of traditional foods was more prevalent among elderly than among young individuals and more frequent in Uummannaq than in Ilulissat and Nuuk. Ferritin levels were higher in men than in women (p<0.0001). Median ferritin levels were lowest in Nuuk (men, 92 microg/L; women, 40 microg/L), higher in Ilulissat (men, 104 microg/L; women, 69 microg/L) and in Uummannaq (men, 118 microg/L; women, 46 microg/L) (p<0.001). The prevalence of iron load (ferritin >200 microg/L) was lowest in Nuuk (men: 13.8%, women: 2.3%) intermediate in Ilulissat (men, 11.1%; women, 9.1%) and highest in Uummannaq (men, 32.1%; women, 21.1%). CONCLUSION: The observed differences in estimated body iron stores in Greenlanders from the three residential areas can be explained by differences in the dietary intake of haem iron. PMID: 11168519, UI: 21099797 Who loves ya. Tom Jesus Was A Vegetarian! http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Man Is A Herbivore! http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/manisaherbivore DEAD PEOPLE WALKING http://pages.ivillage.com/ironjustice/deadpeoplewalking << I took the time to look up the full article and found specific information which contridicts your conclusions. "Studies of the Inuit before the 1980s have shown a low prevalence^ of diabetes compared with Danish subjects and other Western populations" This confirms what is known in other mostly meat consuming areas, traditionally it was low; more on this point below. "Risk factors for diabetes in this study include age, positive^ family history, overall obesity, lack of physical activity, diet, and IGT. Increasing prevalence of obesity has also paralleled the increased prevalence of glucose intolerance among the Inuit populations of Canada and Alaska" What is going on here is that as a Daneish colony western foods were introduced into the diet and reliance on meat alone fell greatly. As they also note, it is the towns compared to the smaller villages where diabetes is highest and the former have easy access to all of the western foods the people want and they hunt for only a fraction of before if at all. I n the villages more hunting is done. Thus the information is in direct and oppisite conclusion to the one you drew from it. If anything it shows that eating more meat decreases the risk factors of diabetes. Could you please use normal punctuation, it makes reading awkward. It seems to reveal a great level of anger involved but that is irrelevant to the discussion. Do .. I .. REALLY give a crap WHAT the studies 'say' .. over twenty years .. ago ..? No .. The NUMBERS .. state .. meat eating .. ACCORDING TO THE RESEARCHERS .. demonstrated higher iron levels .. ACCORDING TO THE RESEARCHERS .. the diabetes INCIDENCE .. in .. the group with the highest iron LEVELS .. is ALSO .. the highest .. and since the RESEARCHERS .. attributed the higher iron levels TO .. or more 'can be explained by' .. meat consumption .. then .. as the studies TOGETHER .. show .. CLEARLY .. meat eating PREDICTS diabetes .. Simple .. Who loves ya. Tom Forgive me for bothering you, I now see there is a problem above and beyond a discussion of the article you introduced and the conclusions you drew from it. >I took the time to look up the full article and found specific information >which contridicts your conclusions. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >people want and they hunt for only a fraction of before if at all. I n >the villages more hunting is done. there exist a research/observations done at East-Greenland around 1936, at a point where average total carbohydrate intake was around 6%. they found arteriosclerosis, but none was affected by it, and those dying young, died from accidents, falling down hillsides, drowning, etc. But almost none diabetes. Today average carbohydrates I have seen refered to around 60% and lot of diabetes. Meat intake has dropped dramatically ( and thus iron intake). The doctor who did the observations came from Norway. But since it contradicts the dogma's of saturated fat as the big culprit, many has tried to neglect the observations. The common thread is that they all used the same local water. It is a parasite that caused both. Maybe they used the same Laundromat to wash all their clothes. Maybe they have local genes with a restricted gene pool making both HHC and diabetes showing coinheritance. Iron .. levels PREDICTED .. diabetes .. Live with it .. Screw around with .. words .. all you .. want .. NUMBERS.. don't .. lie .. YOU .. on the other hand .. Who loves ya. Tom |
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