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Medical Forum / General / General / April 2005

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MD Hammesfahr stated that Terri Shiavo could have been rehabilitated

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Barbara Schwarz - 02 Apr 2005 19:41 GMT
Below information is interesting and also controversial. However be
also reminded that Bill Frist, a MD within U.S. Congress stated that he
saw signs to give her a second chance for rehabilitation, and so did
others.

Everybody of us saw that she was aware but just could not express
herself. I think it was murder to cut off her tube. At least they could
have let a speech therapist to her to train her to talk to others if
she really wants to die and not more feel the caress of her family
members.

Barbara Schwarz

Report on Terri Released
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/3/30/144422.shtml>http://www.newsm
ax.com/archives/articles/2005/3/30/144422.shtml


Here is a report by Dr. William Hammesfahr, on Terri Schiavo's
condition as of September
12, 2002:

William Hammesfahr, M.D.
Questionable Nobel Prize Nominee and advocate
for the Shindler family in the Terri Schiavo case

Please answer yes or no to the following questions
about Dr. William Hammesfahr from Clearwater,
Florida:

Would you seek medical care from a doctor who?:

 o Repeatedly, and I mean repeatedly, advertises
    himself as a Nobel Prize Nominee in 1999,
    when the only person who appears to have
    nominated him is his own U.S. Congressman?

 o Does not seem to have published a single peer
    reviewed scientific article in a recognized
    medical journal.

 o Says he hasn't done the rigorous clinical studies
    because he's too busy treating patients and
    because he feels it would be unethical to
    withhold the treatment from some patients
    in order to study them.

 o Claims that Terri Schiavo is not in a persistent
    vegetative state and that therapy can help her.

 o Appears on national TV shows and clearly
    indicates that Terri Schiavo's spouse tried
    to kill her.

Affidavits filed on behalf of Terri Shindler-Schiavo

June 1, 2001 [1] - This is where he states, "that
the CAT scan readings or MRI readings of Ms.
Schiavo's brain were misrepresented to the Court
during the trial in January 2000". He also makes
the statement that she, "is not in any sort of
coma, whether persistent vegetative state or otherwise".

Unsigned examination report September 12, 2002 [2]
 - He makes the claim that, "The patient was alert
throughout essentially the entire exam". Furthermore,
"At various times during the exam, I asked her to
close her eyes, or open her eyes widely, look towards
her mother, or look towards me. At times, she appeared
to properly follow these commands".

There are so many questionable statements made about
the examination that I wonder about the ability of
the examiner to come to the conclusions that he did,
or to make the recomnendations that he made.

Among Hammesfahr's recommendations and conclusions:

Communication:
  She can communicate. She needs a Speech Therapist,
  Speech Pathologist, and a communications expert
  to evaluate how to best communicate with her and
  to allow her to communicate and for others to
  communicate with her. Also, a treatment plan for
  how to develop better communication needs to be
  done.

Rehabilitation Medicine:
  The patient has severe contractures. She needs
  a specialist to evaluate these and develop a
  treatment plan.

Endocrine:
  The patient has clinical evidence of an abnormally
  functioning endocrine system. Her blood pressure
  is abnormally low. Many patients with severe
  neurological injury have low blood pressure due
  to an abnormally functioning endocrine system.
  The reason for this should be determined and
  corrected, as with a more normal blood pressure,
  she is likely to have even better neurological
  functioning. She has facial acne consistent with
  hormonal abnormalities.

ENT:
  The patient can clearly swallow, and is able to
  swallow approximately 2 liters of water per day
  (the daily amount of saliva generated). Water
  is one of the most difficult things for people
  to swallow. It is unlikely that she currently
  needs the feeding tube. She should be evaluated
  by an Ear Nose and Throat specialist, and have
  a new swallowing exam.

Mammography needs to be performed.

Spinal Exam:
  The patient's exam from a spinal perspective
  is abnormal. The degree of limitation of range
  of motion, and of spasms in her neck, is
  consistent with a neck injury. The abnormal
  sensory exam, that shows evidence of her hypoxic
  encephalopathic strokes (right side sensory
  responses are different from left) also suggests
  a spinal cord injury at around the level of C4.
  Her physical exam and videotapes also suggest a
  spinal cord injury is also present, as she has
  much better control over he face, head, and neck,
  than over her arms and legs. This reminds one
  of a person with a spinal cord injury who has
  good facial control, but poor use of arms and
  legs. It is possible that a correctable spinal
  abnormality such as a herniated disk may be found
  that could be treated and result in better
  neurological functioning. This should be looked
  for, as may be treatable. Thus, there may be an
  injured disk or spinal cord; the disk injury is
  more treatable, the spinal cord injury, if
  present without a disk injury, may be more
  difficult to treat. A person with a spinal
  cord injury and hypoxic encephalopathy will need
  different treatment and rehab recommendations
  than one who just has a hypoxic encephalopathic.

  Interestingly, I have seen this pattern of
  mixed brain (cerebral) and spinal cord findings
  in a patient once before, a patient who was
  asphyxiated.

EEG:
  I have reviewed the EEG recently obtained. The EEG
  has large amounts of artifact. The technician's
  attempted to remove artifact by filtering.
  Unfortunately, filtering also affects and reduces
  evident brain electronic activity. This EEG is not
  adequate and should be repeated. It should be
  repeated at the patient's bedside, with the
  patient in a non-agitated state.

SPECT scan:
  A SPECT scan prior to and after several days of
  Hyperbaric Trial should be obtained. Such a
  Hyperbaric Oxygen trial does not constitute
  treatment, as the length of time of such hyperbaric
  is inadequate to render any treatment. However,
  it is a useful technique to assess the likelihood
  of improvement using hyperbaric oxygen. I would
  defer to Dr. Maxfield on the specifics of testing,
  but believe that it is generally accepted by those
  in the field who have experience with hyperbaric
  treatment, that Dr. Maxfield's recommendations
  in this area are accurate.

Recent links and internet searches

Hammesfahr stumbles when challenged by L.A. Talk Show [3]
Another John & Ken interview that didn't go well.

  Dr. William Hammesfahr is making the media rounds,
  claiming that Terri Shiavo could recover with the
  correct treatment, based on his research. He also
  claims that he is a Nobel Prize Nominee, based on
  a note he got from some guy a few years ago. John
  & Ken called him on the dubious nature of his
  so-called nomination, but unfortunately he terminated
  the call before they could call into question the
  veracity of his "World's Greatest Dad" coffee mug.

Fact checking the Schiavo experts [4]
  Numerous "experts" have weighed in on the Terri
  Schiavo case since it began -- some more dubious
  than others. On Monday, Fox News' Hannity and
  Colmes presented Dr. William Hammesfahr, a
  Florida neurologist who examined Terri in 2002,
  and who insists that Terri is not in a permanent
  vegetative state. Alongside Hammesfahr's rather
  astonishing prognosis, Hannity made sure to take
  note of Hammesfahr's lofty qualifications:

   Hannity: Do you believe she is aware, conscious
             and responsive?
   Hammesfahr: Terri is completely aware and conscious
             and responsive. She is like a child with
             cerebral palsy. We have kids in the
             Pinellas County school system every day
             that are much worse than her, that we're
             educating.
   Hannity: Doctor, wait a minute. I've got to get
             this straight here. You were nominated
             to get a Nobel Peace Prize in this very
             work. Are you saying that this woman
             could be rehabilitated?
   Hammesfahr: Absolutely.

  Hammesfahr appeared on Scarborough Country the same
  night and received a similar introduction as a Nobel
  Prize nominee. Problem is, that's not quite the
  truth -- Hammesfahr was never officially nominated
  for a Nobel Prize. In 1999, a U.S. Congressman
  recommended him in a letter to the Nobel Committee
  for his work with stroke patients. But according to
  the committee's Web site, such unsolicited letters
  constitute "invalid nominations" and are not considered.

News Hounds Blog critique of Fox [5]

Excellent discussion of Hammesfahr [6]
  Transcript of Scarborough where Hammesfahr accuses
  Michael Schiavo of trying to kill his wife.

News outlets ignored questions about doctor who claimed
Schiavo can be helped [7]
  Dr. William Hammesfahr, a Florida neurologist who
  claims that he can help Terri Schiavo, has promoted
  his treatment plan on Christian Broadcasting
  Network's The 700 Club and has been cited by
  anti-abortion activist Randall Terry, a spokesman
  for Schiavo's parents, in newspaper articles. But
  questions have been raised about Hammesfahr, who
  was disciplined by the Florida Department of Health
  in 2003, and news outlets that have repeated
  Hammesfahr's claims have ignored those questions.

  In February 2003, the Florida Board of Medicine
  ruled that he violated state law by charging a
  patient for services that were not provided (Finding
  of Fact No. 71, PDF p. 40 [8]) it declined to rule
  that the treatment was harmful to his patients and
  noted that some patients improved after treatment.

  In addition to his appearance on The 700 Club,
  Hammesfahr has discussed the case on the
  October 27, 2003, edition of Fox News' Hannity &
  Colmes [9], during which he repeated his claim that
  Terri Schiavo is "not in a coma." Co-host Sean Hannity
  did not note Hammesfahr's disciplinary action by
  the Florida Board of Medicine, and he encouraged
  Hammesfahr to speculate on other aspects of the
  Schiavo case. A clip of Hammesfahr from his Fox
  News appearance was played on the November 9, 2003,
  edition of CBS' Sunday Morning.

Pulling the plug on fairness [10] - great review of
Hammesfahr and his battles with the press

  William Hammesfahr, a neurologist brought in by
  the Schindlers for a 2002 hearing who claims that
  Terri Schiavo is not in the "persistent vegetative
  state" claimed by Michael Schiavo. An Oct. 23, 2002,
  Miami Herald article notes that Hammesfahr "charges
  cash for treatments and advertises himself as a
  nominee for a Nobel Prize based on a letter his
  congressman wrote to the Nobel committee." An Oct.
  25, 2003, St. Petersburg Times article noted that
  Hammesfahr "offered no names, no case studies,
  no videos and no test results to support his
  claim" that Terri Schiavo could be helped.

Al Franken says this to Joe Scarborough - March 23, 2005 [11]
  Most people in the polling that's been done would not
  want to live like she's living. She brain-dead. Now,
  here's where a lot of misinformation has been passed,
  including by you, Joe. The other night, you said this
  and you said it four times. This is how you teased
  this. "And a Nobel Prize-nominated neurologist who
  has treated Terri Schiavo, he says Terri should live
  and that her husband is perpetrating a hoax that is
  just aimed at killing his wife."

  This Dr. Hammesfahr is not a Nobel Prize nominee. You
  said that four times. He did not treat her. You said
  that four times. You have to do your research, Joe.
  There is no such thing as a Nobel Prize nominee. Now,
  he claims to be a Nobel Prize nominee because a letter
  was written to the Nobel Committee by Representative
  Mike Bilirakis.

Since the Schiavo affair began, this neurologist who
brags about his alleged "Nobel Prize Nomination" [12],
openly on his web site has appeared on scores of radio
and TV shows. I would assume that Joe Scarborough and
Sean Hannity had no idea that his "nomination" was
made by his own [13], from Clearwater, Florida.

As fas as his qualifications are concerned, Hammesfahr
is a board certified neurologist who had his troubles
at one time in his home State over the billing of a
patient. If you would put his c.v. next to a real Nobel
Prize nominee, it would be worth absolutely nothing.
He is not on the staff of any teaching hospital, nor
does he appear to have any affiliation with a medical
school. So, what in the world was this Congressman
nominating him for in the first place back in 1999?

Stroke therapy's creator labeled pioneer, quack [14] - St.
Pete Times - Jul 7, 1999. pg. 1.B

  Hammesfahr has been mentioned on Quackwatch, a
  Web site focusing on fraud and quackery in
  medicine. His articles have been turned down
  by well-known medical journals. And a Miami
  Beach neurologist has filed a complaint with
  the state accusing Hammesfahr of fraudulent
  advertising. "In my opinion, it's irresponsible
  to market any treatment to the public before it
  has gone through the peer review process," said
  Dr. Steven Novella, a Yale neurologist who wrote
  an article about Hammesfahr for Quackwatch.

Terri Schindler Schiavo and the Cardiac Arrest/Heart
Attack Lies [15]
  Dr. William Hammesfahr, a world-reknowned neurologist
  wrote a complete report regarding Terri Schindler
  Schiavo dated September 12, 2002. The report
  reveals that medical tests conducted after
  Terri's collapse did not show evidence of a
  heart attack.

Search Google for Hammesfahr and "Nobel Prize"
on March 22 had 645 hits [17]

Search Google for Hammesfahr and "Nobel Prize"
and Schiavo on March 22 had 479 hits [18]

Search Google for Hammesfahr and "Nobel Prize"
without Schiavo on March 22 had 165 hits [19]

Search Google News for Hammesfahr and "Nobel
Prize" [20]

Medline search for his name comes up EMPTY" [21]
Just put "Hammesfahr W" in the search box.

Terri Schindler-Schiavo claims

It seems that the association of Hammesfahr with the
Schindler family goes back a few years. Here are a
few of the most interesting links from the many web
sites controlled by the Schindler family and their
associates: Terrisfight Timeline [22]

Hammesfahr's incredible legal battle with the Florida
Board Department of Health - Board of Medicine v.
William Hammesfahr [23] - This is the incredible
compilation of the case against Hammesfahr. There
are 112 Adobe .pdf documents with links, and 11
others without links.

Hammesfahr counter-sued The Board of Medicine in
2004 [24] - Note the staggering number of complaints
against him that weren't acted on & dismissed before
the board found something to prosecute him for. Not
only did patients and physicians complain, so did
a former employee - and it was about aiding and
abetting the unlicensed practice of medicine.

 [1]
<http://www.terrisfight.net/documents/Hammesfahr%20Aff%20060101.pdf>
 [2] <http://www.terrisfight.net/documents/Hammesfahrexam.htm>
 [3] <http://www.johnandkenshow.com/audio/files/hammesfahr.wma> -
audio file
 [4]
<http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/archive.html?blog=/politics/war_room/2005
/03/25/experts/index.html
>

- Salon.com
 [5]
<http://www.newshounds.us/2005/03/22/hannity_colmes_misrepresents_doctor_in_schia
vo_case.php
>

- Transcript of Hannity & Colmes
 [6] <http://mediamatters.org/items/200503220009> - Media Matters for
America -
 [7] <http://mediamatters.org/items/200503220002> - Media Matters for
America
 [8]
<http://www.doh.state.fl.us/mqa/FinalOrders/03-17-03/DOH-03-0182.pdf>
[.pdf file - 96 pages]. The board fined Hammesfahr $2,000, placed him
on
probation for six months, and ordered him to pay approximately $52,000
in
administrative costs and to perform 100 hours of community service.
While
the board also ruled that Hammesfahr's treatment of stroke patients,
using
a procedure he has claimed could help Terri Schiavo, was "not within
the
generally accepted standard of care" (Finding of Fact No. 55, PDF p.
33),
 [9] <http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,101458,00.html>
[10] <http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/stories/2005/schiavo.html>
[11] <http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7284763/>
[12] http://www.hni-online.com/nobel_prize_nomination.htm
[13]
http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/email_representative_form.aspx?id=4169
[14] <http://tinyurl.com/6549f>
[15]
<http://www.libertytothecaptives.net/terri_schindler_schiavo_cardiac_arrest_lie.html>

- Libertytothecaptives.net Blog
[16]
<http://www.libertytothecaptives.net/scientology_and_terri_schindler_schiavo_deat
h_connection.html
>

- This is yet another wild claim made by the people who run
Libertytothecaptives.net Blog. How anyone can believe this is beyond
me.
[17]
<http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&c2coff=1&q=Hammesfahr+%22nobel+prize%22&btnG=S
earch&meta
=>

[18]
<http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&c2coff=1&q=Hammesfahr+%22nobel+prize%22++schia
vo&btnG=Search&meta
=>

[19]
<http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&c2coff=1&q=Hammesfahr+%22nobel+prize%22++-schi
avo&btnG=Search&meta
=>

[20]
<http://news.google.ca/news?hl=en&lr=&c2coff=1&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&q=Hammesfahr+%22no
bel+prize%22++&btnG=Search+News
>
[21]
<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&DB=pubmed>
[22] <http://www.terrisfight.org/timeline.html>
[23] <http://tinyurl.com/5vwbo>
[24] <Hammesfahr/hammesfahr3.pdf>
Quaoar - 02 Apr 2005 20:20 GMT
[Drivel snipped]

Did you even *read* the evidence condemning Hammesfahr that *you*
posted?   The guy is a quack and has no credibility.  Besides, Terri was
brain dead in the first seven minutes of her anoxia and nothing would
save her.  All subsequent arguments fail on this evidence of her
condition.

Q
Howard McCollister - 02 Apr 2005 21:44 GMT
> Below information is interesting and also controversial. However be
> also reminded that Bill Frist, a MD within U.S. Congress stated that he
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> she really wants to die and not more feel the caress of her family
> members.

Right. That's what we need...politicians weighing in on neurological
conditions.

HMc
Barbara Schwarz - 02 Apr 2005 21:51 GMT
I posted that before, I hardly anybody of us want a life as vegetables,
but I know that there were ways to talk to Terri and train her to tell
us what she indeed wanted. Switching off her nutrition tube was murder.
Remember also that a person is not her brain. A person has a brain but
is none.

Barbara Schwarz
rmayf - 02 Apr 2005 22:32 GMT
Ah,

I must not have been direct enough.  No way to train her if that picture is
correct.  Not enough neural tissue to train.  A person is a gestalt,
mind/body.  Take away the mind, you're missing the gestalt.  Memory areas in
this picture are gone, cognitive processing areas, etc.  If that picture is
correct the portions of the brain associated with uniqueness as a person
were gone.  All that's left in this picture is reflex actions.

I'm not arguing for her death, there are plenty of severely brain damaged
people existing in nursing home and in developmental disability homes.  I
can state unequivocally that if this picture
(http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2005/03/20/regarding-the-cat-scan-of-
terri-schiavos-brain/) was correct that any meaningful learning wasn't
possible, and it would be as physically impossible to "recognize people" as
it would be to visually identify the difference between black and white if
your eyes were removed.

rmayf

It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value.
Arthur C. Clarke

> I posted that before, I hardly anybody of us want a life as vegetables,
> but I know that there were ways to talk to Terri and train her to tell
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Barbara Schwarz
zenmonkey - 03 Apr 2005 04:38 GMT
Babs,

I see you're still deluding yourself so you can feel good about the things
you post on here.  A "person" is not a "brain," true, but a person DOES
communicate with other persons by using a functioning brain.  That Terri, as
a whole, is not just a brain does nothing to negate the fact that without a
working brain, or connection of necessary, functioning tissues of the brain
to the brain stem, she's not going to be saying anything that reflects what
"she" wants.  We might be able to train her much as we'd train a parrot, but
to that end, we could make her repeat over and over she's a walrus.  Very
entertaining, hardly useful or relevant to the situation at hand.

-zm

>I posted that before, I hardly anybody of us want a life as vegetables,
> but I know that there were ways to talk to Terri and train her to tell
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Barbara Schwarz
tech27 - 03 Apr 2005 05:50 GMT
>>I posted that before, I hardly anybody of us want a life as vegetables,
>> but I know that there were ways to talk to Terri and train her to tell
>> us what she indeed wanted.

Then why didn't you get your fat a.s over there and find out?

Stupid c.nt-that makes it YOUR FAULT that she's dead now. Why didn't you
care enough to go and save a human life?

Switching off her nutrition tube was murder.

If you believe that then you are an accessory to murder, probably something
like depraved indifference resulting in death. manslaughter at least.  You
KNEW how to communicate with her but you didn't care enough to even try.
f.cking bitch.
Donna - 03 Apr 2005 06:26 GMT
Terri was murdered. She was starved to death. A feeding tube is NOT a
respirator, She was NOT dying, She was Severely Disabled!

I say I dont want to drown, I dont want to be a vegetable, I dont want to
burn to death...But guess what sometimes things happen. Mike the wacko had
no right to cause Terri's parents such grief, Her parents loved thier
daughter...It was not about losing Terri...It was about knowing how she
would suffer from dehydration and starvation..This is the CRUELEST death
any human can go through! People go to prison for treating an animal this
way...What the hell has happened to our GREAT NATION UNDER GOD???
Carey Gregory - 03 Apr 2005 06:54 GMT
>A feeding tube is NOT a respirator

Please explain the difference.
tech27 - 03 Apr 2005 07:15 GMT
>>A feeding tube is NOT a respirator
>
> Please explain the difference.

A feeding tube is not a respirator the same way that a box of cereal is not
an oxygen tank. Or to put it in a way that a sub-normal, borderline
intellectually dead moron like you might understand - a feeding tube is for
FOOD-as in nurishment. A respirator is for delivering oxygen, or air, which
is the stuff you waste with every breath, and, of course, which you do
through a wide open mouth.
Carey Gregory - 03 Apr 2005 08:30 GMT
>A feeding tube is not a respirator the same way that a box of cereal is not
>an oxygen tank. Or to put it in a way that a sub-normal, borderline
>intellectually dead moron like you might understand - a feeding tube is for
>FOOD-as in nurishment. A respirator is for delivering oxygen, or air, which
>is the stuff you waste with every breath, and, of course, which you do
>through a wide open mouth.

My, my... cranky tonight, are we?

My question wasn't directed at you, but since you insisted on answering it
anyway, please allow me to simplify:

In what way is life support different from life support?  

Whether it be food, water, or O2, I fail to see the huge difference between
one form of mechanical/surgical life support and another.   The only
difference I see is the amount of time it will take for you to die if it is
shut off.

So, is that the crucial, all-important, ethical and moral difference you see
here -- the length of time it takes for the patient to die?

If so, then I suggest we discuss the qualitative aspects of death by
suffocation vs.death by dehydration.  
Kurt Ullman - 03 Apr 2005 14:28 GMT
>>A feeding tube is NOT a respirator
>
>Please explain the difference.

     Well for one thing, it goes into different holes in the
body...

--
Here in California, US immigrants do the really dirty jobs nobody else
wants to do. Cleaning toilets. Being governor.

SBH
Gary Olson - 06 Apr 2005 03:26 GMT
If she could have been trained like you say,  why did they wait over 15
years to bring it up.

opinions are like a.sholes  almost everyone has one

> I posted that before, I hardly anybody of us want a life as vegetables,
> but I know that there were ways to talk to Terri and train her to tell
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Barbara Schwarz
tech27 - 06 Apr 2005 04:05 GMT
>> I posted that before, I hardly anybody of us want a life as vegetables,
>> but I know that there were ways to talk to Terri and train her to tell
>> us what she indeed wanted.

Name one or f.ck off!

Switching off her nutrition tube was murder.

Then why was no one charged?

>> Remember also that a person is not her brain.

Right. A person is a lump of flesh and fluids. Maybe you are.

A person has a brain but
>> is none.

A sentence has a meaning but you no.

>> Barbara Schwarz
>> Stupid Rambling c.nt 
Lisa Ruby - 03 Apr 2005 09:30 GMT
>I think it was murder to cut off her tube.

Me too.

Also, it was illegal to cut off her regular food and water but Greer
did it anyway. The Florida
Legislature even helped him by coming up with bills that made it look
like Greer wasn't breaking the law!

See: Exposing the Conspiracy to Kill Terri Schiavo is Not Hate
http://libertytothecaptives.net/exposing_conspiracy_not_hatred.html
tech27 - 03 Apr 2005 14:50 GMT
>>I think it was murder to cut off her tube.
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> See: Exposing the Conspiracy to Kill Terri Schiavo is Not Hate
> http://libertytothecaptives.net/exposing_conspiracy_not_hatred.html

f.cking Great! The conspiracy theorists have something new to play with.
What now? Did she know about Area 51? Kennedy? How they get the center in
the Caramilk bar?
Lisa Ruby - 04 Apr 2005 07:37 GMT
Conspiracy:

[n]  a plot to carry out some harmful or illegal act (especially a
political plot)
[n]  a secret agreement between two or more people to perform an
unlawful act
[n]  a group of conspirators banded together to achieve some harmful or
illegal purpose  

Scientology IS a conspiracy.. And that no theory.
The Man from Smegma - 07 Apr 2005 01:51 GMT
>Below information is interesting and also controversial. However be
>also reminded that Bill Frist, a MD within U.S. Congress stated that he
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>Report on Terri Released
>http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/3/30/144422.shtml>http://www.newsm
ax.com/archives/articles/2005/3/30/144422.shtml

But Babs, you don't believe in doctors, remember? And besides, her
soul was rotten with body thetans. Now she'll just go back to Mars and
be reimplanted.  LOLOL
 
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