Medical Forum / General / General / April 2005
aspirin safer than warfarin
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Zee - 31 Mar 2005 18:49 GMT March 31, 2005
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/352/13/1305
Comparison of Warfarin and Aspirin for Symptomatic Intracranial Arterial Stenosis Marc I. Chimowitz, M.B., Ch.B., Michael J. Lynn, M.S., Harriet Howlett-Smith, R.N., Barney J. Stern, M.D., Vicki S. Hertzberg, Ph.D., Michael R. Frankel, M.D., Steven R. Levine, M.D., Seemant Chaturvedi, M.D., Scott E. Kasner, M.D., Curtis G. Benesch, M.D., Cathy A. Sila, M.D., Tudor G. Jovin, M.D., Jose G. Romano, M.D., for the Warfarin-Aspirin Symptomatic Intracranial Disease Trial Investigators
ABSTRACT
Background Atherosclerotic intracranial arterial stenosis is an important cause of stroke. Warfarin is commonly used in preference to aspirin for this disorder, but these therapies have not been compared in a randomized trial.
Methods We randomly assigned patients with transient ischemic attack or stroke caused by angiographically verified 50 to 99 percent stenosis of a major intracranial artery to receive warfarin (target international normalized ratio, 2.0 to 3.0) or aspirin (1300 mg per day) in a double-blind, multicenter clinical trial. The primary end point was ischemic stroke, brain hemorrhage, or death from vascular causes other than stroke.
Results After 569 patients had undergone randomization, enrollment was stopped because of concerns about the safety of the patients who had been assigned to receive warfarin. During a mean follow-up period of 1.8 years, adverse events in the two groups included death (4.3 percent in the aspirin group vs. 9.7 percent in the warfarin group; hazard ratio for aspirin relative to warfarin, 0.46; 95 percent confidence interval, 0.23 to 0.90; P=0.02), major hemorrhage (3.2 percent vs. 8.3 percent, respectively; hazard ratio, 0.39; 95 percent confidence interval, 0.18 to 0.84; P=0.01), and myocardial infarction or sudden death (2.9 percent vs. 7.3 percent, respectively; hazard ratio, 0.40; 95 percent confidence interval, 0.18 to 0.91; P=0.02). The rate of death from vascular causes was 3.2 percent in the aspirin group and 5.9 percent in the warfarin group (P=0.16); the rate of death from nonvascular causes was 1.1 percent and 3.8 percent, respectively (P=0.05). The primary end point occurred in 22.1 percent of the patients in the aspirin group and 21.8 percent of those in the warfarin group (hazard ratio, 1.04; 95 percent confidence interval, 0.73 to 1.48; P=0.83).
Conclusions Warfarin was associated with significantly higher rates of adverse events and provided no benefit over aspirin in this trial. Aspirin should be used in preference to warfarin for patients with intracranial arterial stenosis.
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 01 Apr 2005 03:04 GMT >>Conclusions Warfarin was associated with significantly higher rates of adverse events and provided no benefit over aspirin in this trial. Aspirin should be used in preference to warfarin for patients with intracranial arterial stenosis. <<
COMMENT: A good study, but we should note that for various reasons, aspirin and similar antiplatelet drugs have always been the choice to prevent stroke after TIA. Warfarin has been looked at in other stroke prevention studies, and it's not that great. Nor is it very good at preventing coronary thrombosis, which presumably is a similar type of process to brain thrombosis.
Warfarin is indicated is chronic atrial fibrillation, to prevent embolic stroke. And similarly with mechanical aortic and mitral valves, for the same reason. Aspirin has been directly compared with it in *these* situations, and doesn't do nearly as well. Nobody knows why. Arterial clots due to be embolic seem to be different in some way than clots which form in situ. Even clots which form in arteries, where the blood is at high velocity and pressure, similar to the situation that presumably obtains in the left side of the heart where Warfarin does work to prevent emboli formation.
SBH
Zee - 01 Apr 2005 03:15 GMT > >>Conclusions Warfarin was associated with significantly higher rates > of [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > SBH Thank you Steve. No definitive word in NEJM aspirin for women under 65 either.
Zee
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 01 Apr 2005 03:44 GMT > >>Conclusions Warfarin was associated with significantly higher rates > of [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > presumably obtains in the left side of the heart where Warfarin does > work to prevent emboli formation. The left atrial appendage is actually a site of slow velocity and low pressure (typically less than 10 mmHg). It is currently believed that the slower the blood flow in the left atrial appendage (decreased LAA ejection fraction), the greater the risk of clot formation:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?E27412BCA
So that the following generalizations can be made:
(1) Antiplatelet agents like aspirin and clopidogrel are effective in situations with high flow and pressure such as exposed thrombogenic surfaces (type IV collagen in rupture plaques or bare surgical steel of stented occlusive lesions) in arteries.
(2) Warfarin is effective in situations with low flow and pressure such as the case in veins with DVTs and in the left atrial appendage with atrial fibrillation.
At His service,
Andrew
-- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist
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Al - 01 Apr 2005 04:49 GMT >>>>Conclusions Warfarin was associated with significantly higher rates >> [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > surfaces (type IV collagen in rupture plaques or bare surgical steel of > stented occlusive lesions) in arteries. I believe warfarin reduces the tendency of blook to clot by destroying vitamin K.
Does aspirin have the same effect or does it work in a different fashion?
> (2) Warfarin is effective in situations with low flow and pressure such > as the case in veins with DVTs and in the left atrial appendage with [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A > (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129 Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 01 Apr 2005 13:44 GMT > >>>>Conclusions Warfarin was associated with significantly higher rates > >> [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > I believe warfarin reduces the tendency of blook to clot by > destroying vitamin K. It blocks the body's use of vitamin K to produce K-dependent clotting factors.
> Does aspirin have the same effect or does it work in a different > fashion? Aspirin changes platelets and does not affect levels of K-dependent clotting factors.
At His service,
Andrew
-- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist
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Al - 01 Apr 2005 17:44 GMT >>>>>>Conclusions Warfarin was associated with significantly higher rates >>>> [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > clotting factors. > Therefore, it would seem that aspirin would be advantageous for an elderly woman with weak bones?
How does one make the decision?
Warfarin is monitored. Can the aspirin be monitored?
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 01 Apr 2005 19:07 GMT > >>>>>>Conclusions Warfarin was associated with significantly higher rates > >>>> [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > Therefore, it would seem that aspirin would be advantageous > for an elderly woman with weak bones? For prevention of heart attacks and strokes, yes, whether or not bones are weak.
> How does one make the decision? > > Warfarin is monitored. > Can the aspirin be monitored? There is not a need for monitoring. At His service,
Andrew
-- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist
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Al - 01 Apr 2005 19:15 GMT >>>>>>Conclusions Warfarin was associated with significantly higher rates >>>> [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > It blocks the body's use of vitamin K to produce K-dependent clotting > factors. Could the above statement be refined or extended? It then also blocks the use of vitamin K in maintaining bone mineral density, correct?
>>Does aspirin have the same effect or does it work in a different >>fashion? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Andrew Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 02 Apr 2005 00:09 GMT > >>>>>>Conclusions Warfarin was associated with significantly higher rates > >>>> [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > blocks the use of vitamin K in maintaining bone mineral > density, correct? No.
At His service,
Andrew
-- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist
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Jim Chinnis - 01 Apr 2005 06:00 GMT "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <andrew@heartmdphd.com> wrote in part:
>The left atrial appendage is actually a site of slow velocity and low >pressure (typically less than 10 mmHg). It is currently believed that [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD >Board-Certified Cardiologist Thank you for a clear and valuable contribution. -- Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 01 Apr 2005 13:44 GMT > "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <andrew@heartmdphd.com> wrote in part: > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Thank you for a clear and valuable contribution. You are welcome :-)
At His service,
Andrew
-- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist
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Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 01 Apr 2005 22:38 GMT So that the following generalizations can be made:
(1) Antiplatelet agents like aspirin and clopidogrel are effective in situations with high flow and pressure such as exposed thrombogenic surfaces (type IV collagen in rupture plaques or bare surgical steel of
stented occlusive lesions) in arteries.
(2) Warfarin is effective in situations with low flow and pressure such
as the case in veins with DVTs and in the left atrial appendage with atrial fibrillation.
==================================== COMMENT:
No, sorry, you CANNOT make such a generalization, and I already mentioned one reason why. Warfarin works, as noted, to prevent emboli from mechanical aortic valves, a high flow high pressure situation with exposed thromogenic surfaces, if ever there was one. Asprin is not adequate or indicated for this use, nor are any other antiplatelet agents.
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD - 02 Apr 2005 00:08 GMT > So that the following generalizations can be made: > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > adequate or indicated for this use, nor are any other antiplatelet > agents. Actually, for the mechanical aortic valve, one third of the cardiac cycle is high pressure and high flow while the other two thirds is diastolic down to 0-10 mmHg on the ventricular side of the valve with slow diastolic filling across the mitral valve plus the thrombogenic surface of the mechanical aortic valve.
At His service,
Andrew
-- Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist
** Suggested Reading: (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048 (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
Sharon Hope - 02 Apr 2005 00:44 GMT Given that warfarin (Coumadin) started out as rat poison, and so far I have never heard of using aspirin for that purpose, this headline is somewhat intuitively true.
> March 31, 2005 > [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > Aspirin should be used in preference to warfarin for patients with > intracranial arterial stenosis. zee - 02 Apr 2005 00:54 GMT > Given that warfarin (Coumadin) started out as rat poison, and so far I have > never heard of using aspirin for that purpose, this headline is somewhat > intuitively true. Aspirin safer than warfarin:
<$$> File under the same category as the study (PFIZER, I believe) that found women's sexuality works differently from mens.
Zee
> > March 31, 2005 > > [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > Aspirin should be used in preference to warfarin for patients with > > intracranial arterial stenosis. Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 02 Apr 2005 01:01 GMT >>Given that warfarin (Coumadin) started out as rat poison, and so far I have never heard of using aspirin for that purpose, this headline is somewhat intuitively true. <<
Indeed. The surprise was the Warfarin could be used in medicine at all. In the 1950's some depressed sailor tried to commit suicide with it, and failed. They saved him with vitamin K. There was no saving people who killed themselves with the old white phosphorus rat poisons! So they took a second look at Warfarin and gave it a shot as a human drug.
There was some precident for Warfarin. It's a synthetic version of dicoumarin, a fungus product which causes sweet clover bleeding disease in calves. That's not always fatal, and indeed dicoumarol was used breifly in medicine in the role what Warfarin is now, before they decided Warfarin was cheaper, and tractable enough to work with. (Though it's still nasty and scary stuff).
The sweet clover disease work was done as pure science by the Wisconsin Alumni Research Foundation (WARF). Hence the rat poison name.
The stuff is a great rat poison because it doesn't kill immediately, but causes hemorrage and thus, thirst. Rats go outside to seek water, and die out there, instead of in your walls.
SBH
zee - 02 Apr 2005 01:12 GMT > >>Given that warfarin (Coumadin) started out as rat poison, and so far > I have [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > SBH WARF! You're kidding right? You're wasted here.
Zee
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 02 Apr 2005 05:07 GMT >WARF! You're kidding right?<< Sounds like April fools, but isn't. The Warfian hypothesis is true. Language influences worldview. The debate on naming Warfarin wasn't even, ah, acronymious.
>> You're wasted here. << Nah. Academia won't pay for trivial pursuit. Unless it's in Women's Studies or Art History, of course.
BTW, I wrote dicoumarin, but of course it's dicoumarol (as I first said). There is no dicoumarin that I know of. Coumarin is a completely separate plant product, and one that is neither a blood thinner or even toxic. The generic name of the drug Warfarin is coumaDin (note the D), which causes no end of confusion. I've even seen warnings on red clover herbs that they might interact with anticoagulants. Reason: they contain coumarin. Unless you're a fungus, you can't convert that to anything that's going to bother clotting.
SBH
bae@cs.toronto.no-uce.edu - 02 Apr 2005 16:23 GMT >BTW, I wrote dicoumarin, but of course it's dicoumarol (as I first >said). There is no dicoumarin that I know of. Coumarin is a completely [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >contain coumarin. Unless you're a fungus, you can't convert that to >anything that's going to bother clotting. Coumarin is responsible for the pleasant vanilla or sweet hay scent of sweet clover, and is used commercially in perfumes, flavourings, soaps, etc. It used to be extracted from tonka beans (the coumarou tree, in French), but is now mostly made synthetically. But yeah, it's not physiologically active in humans, and AFAIK is GRAS.
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 03 Apr 2005 01:10 GMT >>Coumarin is responsible for the pleasant vanilla or sweet hay scent of sweet clover, and is used commercially in perfumes, flavourings, soaps,
etc. It used to be extracted from tonka beans (the coumarou tree, in French), but is now mostly made synthetically. But yeah, it's not physiologically active in humans, and AFAIK is GRAS. <<
COMMENT:
It is indeed both GRAS and GRASS. :) May may even have anticancer and antiischemic properites. But it's a natural product like vitamins, so developmental uses for it will be slow in coming. Fascinating stuff. I have a bottle here in the lab. It's crystals and it does indeed smell like grass freshcut with the lawnmower. Or newmown hay if you have enough rural background to know that that smells like. Quite lovely.
SBH
Don Kirkman - 03 Apr 2005 00:48 GMT It seems to me I heard somewhere that Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com wrote in article <1112414874.767115.222020@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>:
>>WARF! You're kidding right?<<
>Sounds like April fools, but isn't. The Warfian hypothesis is true. >Language influences worldview. The debate on naming Warfarin wasn't >even, ah, acronymious.
>>> You're wasted here. <<
>Nah. Academia won't pay for trivial pursuit. Unless it's in Women's >Studies or Art History, of course. But it's a good thing nobody asked about Premarin, eh? :-)
 Signature Don "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. --Galileo Galilei
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 03 Apr 2005 21:31 GMT >>WARF! You're kidding right?<< >Sounds like April fools, but isn't. The Warfian hypothesis is true. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Nah. Academia won't pay for trivial pursuit. Unless it's in Women's >Studies or Art History, of course.
>>But it's a good thing nobody asked about Premarin, eh? :-) For sure. And bacitracin.
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