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Medical Forum / General / General / March 2005

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silly question about blood colour

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ninja_man_x@hotmail.com - 10 Mar 2005 12:35 GMT
Its really silly, but what colour does blood have when it havn't had
contact with oxygen/air?

I had the impression it was blue up until the red blood cells got in
contact with oxygen and then enlarge, to colour it all dark red.

I'm I totally off course?
Jeff - 10 Mar 2005 14:37 GMT
> Its really silly, but what colour does blood have when it havn't had
> contact with oxygen/air?

It is dark purple or blue.

> I had the impression it was blue up until the red blood cells got in
> contact with oxygen and then enlarge, to colour it all dark red.

The red  blue cells don't visably enlarge when they get in contact with air
(I imagine that oxygen entering the cells cause them to enlarge by like
0.1%).

You know how people have blue veins? The color is from blood that has  very
little oxygen. Blood that has most of its oxygen removed is dark red. And
blood with lots of oxygen (like the blood that squirts out when you cut into
an artery) is bright red.

> I'm I totally off course?

No. You were close.

Jeff
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 13 Mar 2005 04:27 GMT
Well, blood in veins is actually a sort of muddy dark color with
reddish tinge. It is NOT blue. You can draw all the blood from veins
into clear tubes you like (it's done all over the world every day), and
you'll never see a tube of blue blood unless the person has severe
methemoglobinemia (where the iron in blood has been oxidized due to a
metabolic disorder).

Now, blood in veins does look blue when seen through the wall of the
vein. But that's due to the vein wall selectively removing certian hues
from the blood, leaving only the blue tones to see. The vein can be a
lovely blue, but blood taken from a blue vein is NOT blue (it's that
muddy red) and the vein itself, without blood in it, is basically
translucent white. That sounds like a paradox, but isn't. The
appearance of the blue in blood-filled veins is a bit like the orange
you see when you look at a red object though a yellow filter. It
doesn't really exist in either place. It apears only as a result of an
interaction between the two objects.

SBH
Jeff - 14 Mar 2005 06:30 GMT
> Well, blood in veins is actually a sort of muddy dark color with
> reddish tinge. It is NOT blue.

thanks for the clarification. I didn't say blood was blue, only that the
viens are blue.

Jeff
Invest - 14 Mar 2005 05:59 GMT
> > Its really silly, but what colour does blood have when it havn't had
> > contact with oxygen/air?
>
> It is dark purple or blue.

This is wrong as per Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood

"Human blood is red, ranging from bright red when oxygenated to dark
red when not. It owes its colour to hemoglobin, a metalloprotein
compound containing iron in the form of heme, to which oxygen binds.
There exists a popular misconception that deoxygenated blood is blue
and that blood only becomes red when it comes into contact with oxygen.
Blood is never blue, but veins appear blue because light is diffused by
skin."
Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 15 Mar 2005 22:35 GMT
Not just by skin. I can tell you from much direct surgical experience
that many isolated veins, not covered witih skin or even vessel sheath,
are quite blue when filled, white when not (so it's not quite true the
veins are blue-- only filled veins are blue). But the blood within them
is indeed dark muddy-red, not blue.

Some of this may have to do with the thinness and structure of veins
and skin, vs the relatively much thicker and more muscular arteries.

Here's something interesting: it's possible for veinous blood to be
quite red in a well-oxygenated animal, and yet the veins STILL blue.
For example, I just saw a few drops of blood drawn from an external
vein (probably an external branch of the femoral vein) in the rear leg
of an anesthetized cat breathing 100% oxygen as part of anesthesia. The
small blood sample (0.2 mL) was taken for antibody/virus testing. Such
blood samples from this area are generally dark when taken from cats
breathing normal 21% oxygen air, but in a very-well-oxygenated resting
cat, such venous blood may be quite red-- nearly as bright red as
arterial blood. Yet the vein it comes from, remains blue anyway!  In
this case, albeit seen through skin.

The cognoscenti may wonder how it is that venous pO2 at all when 100%
O2 is breathed, since oxygen content of arterial blood doesn't go up
that much. But there's some normal A-V shunting in the drainage of the
heart and lungs which affects venous pO2, and also there's a lot of
shunting in resting muscle, such as in a limb. Anesthetics affect
shunting also. So not all venous blood has been though a capillary bed.

SBH
Jason - 16 Mar 2005 00:03 GMT
SBH,
Great post. I learned some things that I did not know before. Keep
up the great work.
Jason

> Not just by skin. I can tell you from much direct surgical experience
> that many isolated veins, not covered witih skin or even vessel sheath,
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> SBH

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Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com - 16 Mar 2005 04:26 GMT
Thank you.

This is a bit like the people who believe that the printing on the
front side of an American $1 bill, is green. They'll insist on this,
right up the act of taking it out and looking at it. It's not green.
The green is mostly on the backside. There are a few green letters on
the front, and a very muted greenish background for the paper.
Basically, however, most of the print on the front, is simply
black.That's kind of the way it is with blood. People see what they
expect to.

The bark of most trees in a temperate climate isn't brown, either. Go
out and look.

SBH
bae@cs.toronto.no-uce.edu - 17 Mar 2005 04:50 GMT
>Not just by skin. I can tell you from much direct surgical experience
>that many isolated veins, not covered witih skin or even vessel sheath,
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>Some of this may have to do with the thinness and structure of veins
>and skin, vs the relatively much thicker and more muscular arteries.

I always figured it was a scattering effect.  After all, black India
ink (or coal dust) under the skin looks blue -- as in tattoos, and the
scars on coal miners.  Does this make sense to you?
PF Riley - 17 Mar 2005 05:18 GMT
>>Not just by skin. I can tell you from much direct surgical experience
>>that many isolated veins, not covered witih skin or even vessel sheath,
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>ink (or coal dust) under the skin looks blue -- as in tattoos, and the
>scars on coal miners.  Does this make sense to you?

It does, but I'd still gather it's more likely filtering than
scattering (subtle difference).
 
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