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Medical Forum / General / General / March 2005

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Socialized medicine - best care?

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Steve - 09 Mar 2005 22:46 GMT
Excerpts from Slate -

==========================

Phillip Longman published an article in the Washington Monthly that
states: Socialized medicine has been tried in the United States, and
it has proven superior to health care supplied by the private sector.

The socialized medicine to which I refer is the complex of hospitals
managed by the Veterans Administration. Longman cites a study
published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 2003 comparing
veterans' hospitals with fee-for-service health care funded by
Medicare. Both, of course, constitute socialized medicine in the sense
that both are paid for by the federal government - but the hospitals
treating elderly patients on Medicare are not government-run
institutions.

By every criterion, the New England Journal found the veterans'
hospitals to be superior.

Surveys by the National Committee for Quality Assurance and other
organizations have reached the same conclusion. The superiority of VA
hospitals is so obvious that by now it ought to be common knowledge.

But it isn't, because an insane political consensus that firmly
opposes turning health care over to the government - because the
government is presumed incapable of doing anything well - doesn't want
to hear that government hospitals are outperforming private hospitals.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2114554
Larry Bud - 10 Mar 2005 13:27 GMT
> Phillip Longman published an article in the Washington Monthly that
> states: Socialized medicine has been tried in the United States, and
> it has proven superior to health care supplied by the private sector.

> The socialized medicine to which I refer is the complex of hospitals
> managed by the Veterans Administration. Longman cites a study
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> treating elderly patients on Medicare are not government-run
> institutions.

Are you kidding?  Veterans hospitals are some of the worst in the
country.  Ask any vet.

> But it isn't, because an insane political consensus that firmly
> opposes turning health care over to the government - because the
> government is presumed incapable of doing anything well

They don't.  The roads suck, the post office sucks, the IRS "Help Line"
get 1/3 of the answers wrong, waste upon waste upon waste in government
spending.  You live in fantasy land if you believe anything else.

There's a reason people in Canada are coming over the border.
Dave Lister - 10 Mar 2005 17:28 GMT
"Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1110461231.884001.293680
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

> Are you kidding?  Veterans hospitals are some of the worst in the
> country.  Ask any vet.

How would they know?

> They don't.  The roads suck, the post office sucks, the IRS "Help Line"
> get 1/3 of the answers wrong, waste upon waste upon waste in government
> spending.  You live in fantasy land if you believe anything else.
>
> There's a reason people in Canada are coming over the border.

That is mostly a myth.

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Bush is not my President.

Larry Bud - 11 Mar 2005 13:52 GMT
> > Are you kidding?  Veterans hospitals are some of the worst in the
> > country.  Ask any vet.
>
> How would they know?

???  Huh?

http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=132383&page=1

> > They don't.  The roads suck, the post office sucks, the IRS "Help Line"
> > get 1/3 of the answers wrong, waste upon waste upon waste in government
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> That is mostly a myth.

Hardly.  Waiting lines in Canada are not a myth.  There is a shortage
of Doctors in Canada.
Dave Lister - 11 Mar 2005 16:20 GMT
"Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1110549149.990290.26120
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

>> > Are you kidding?  Veterans hospitals are some of the worst in the
>> > country.  Ask any vet.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=132383&page=1

The question was "how do vets know". They don't exactly comparison shop.

>> > They don't.  The roads suck, the post office sucks, the IRS "Help
> Line"
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Hardly.  Waiting lines in Canada are not a myth.  There is a shortage
> of Doctors in Canada.

There are some lines. The coming over to the US part is mostly myth.

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Bush is not my President.

Larry Bud - 11 Mar 2005 18:47 GMT
> "Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1110549149.990290.26120
> @o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> The question was "how do vets know". They don't exactly comparison shop.

Because there are vets which have gone to regular practioners either
for themselves or for family members.

> > Hardly.  Waiting lines in Canada are not a myth.  There is a shortage
> > of Doctors in Canada.
>
> There are some lines. The coming over to the US part is mostly myth.

http://www.ncpa.org/ea/eand94/eand94l.html

That's just not true for border cities like where I live (Detroit
area).  Canadians who can afford it come here.
Dave Lister - 11 Mar 2005 19:06 GMT
"Larry Bud" <larrybud2002@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1110566831.412087.246200
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

> The question was "how do vets know". They don't exactly comparison
> shop.
>
> Because there are vets which have gone to regular practioners either
> for themselves or for family members.

I thought we were discussing hospitals? People don't generally comparison
shop.

>> There are some lines. The coming over to the US part is mostly myth.
>
> http://www.ncpa.org/ea/eand94/eand94l.html
>
> That's just not true for border cities like where I live (Detroit
> area).  Canadians who can afford it come here.

2% it said.

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Bush is not my President.

bae@cs.toronto.no-uce.edu - 12 Mar 2005 01:46 GMT
>> > Hardly.  Waiting lines in Canada are not a myth.  There is a
>shortage
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>That's just not true for border cities like where I live (Detroit
>area).  Canadians who can afford it come here.

And they had to go to photo-id health cards here in Ontario some years
ago to control fraud by people coming over from the US to get medical
care in Canada.
Jason - 11 Mar 2005 18:14 GMT
> > > Are you kidding?  Veterans hospitals are some of the worst in the
> > > country.  Ask any vet.
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Hardly.  Waiting lines in Canada are not a myth.  There is a shortage
> of Doctors in Canada.

I read at least one report indicating that lots of doctors from Canada
moved to America to make more money in their medical practices. I don't
know how much doctors make in Canada but it's my guess that they don't
make as much as American doctors--esp. if they are in certain fields--such
as plastic surgery
or heart surgery.

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Jeff - 10 Mar 2005 18:14 GMT
Almost half the care in the US is paid for by the gov't.

We are almost there.

And I am so glad Bush decided not to allow our gov't to negotiate lower
prices for drugs with drug companies. The no rich drug company left behind
act.

Jeff
 
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