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Medical Forum / General / General / February 2005What is major surgery like?
I wonder if anyone has had major abdominal surgeery and what it was like? Is it painful? I am looking at colon revomal for a paralized colon. I am trying to hold off but not sure how long I can avoid it. I have never had surgery people and have a rather low threshold to pain. <stryped@hotmail.com> wrote in message > I wonder if anyone has had major abdominal surgeery and what it was > like? Is it painful? > I am looking at colon revomal for a paralized colon. > I am trying to hold off but not sure how long I can avoid it. I have > never had surgery people and have a rather low threshold to pain. Don, aka "Mr. Bowel Fixation," is that you??? >I wonder if anyone has had major abdominal surgeery and what it was > like? Is it painful? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I am trying to hold off but not sure how long I can avoid it. I have > never had surgery people and have a rather low threshold to pain. I had part of my bowel removed a few years ago. I had an epidural inserted into my back, which really dulled the pain to manageable levels. After a few days I was able to walk - albeit slowly.... Tell the staff now of your concerns. No-one will want you to be in too much pain. Stodge Were you cut open or have laproscopy? I thought they made you walk after surgery? > Were you cut open or have laproscopy? I thought they made you walk > after surgery? Not sure who you're referring to, but I was cut open. I wasn't made to walk for a few days. Couldn't. Legs were numb with the epidural. Stodge > Not sure who you're referring to, but I was cut open. > I wasn't made to walk for a few days. Couldn't. Legs were numb with the > epidural. I've had two major surgeries in the last couple of years: a laproscopic gastric bypass and a total hip replacement. With the first, I was "sore" more than anything else. I felt as if I'd done too many sit ups. I didn't have a NG tube stuffed down my throat, zero nausea and no visceral pain. All the soreness was in the muscle layer overlying my belly. The initial surgery was done under general anesthesia. I was out pressure washing my house the day after going home. With the total hip, I was done under an epidural (I think it was Duramorph). I had full sensation in my feet as soon as I was aware of my surroundings again. The surgery was done on a Tuesday morning around 1000 and I didn't ask for anything for pain until around 0400 Thursday, when I took two Percocet. Wednesday, when the physical terrorist came in to transfer me to the chair for the first time I decided I felt pretty good up with the walker and we went down to the nurse's station and back; then I sat in the chair. The following morning they removed my Foley catheter and I went into the bathroom to stoop and poop independently, then washed up and shaved. I walked a total of 800 feet that day. Friday, I went home. Friday evening, I was driving my car. Since I live alone, if I want anything done, I have to do it myself. The surgeon had the good sense not to ask me how I got to the appointments. If you're wondering, I didn't drive high... didn't need the pain meds. Frankly, my hip hurt so much before the surgery that getting rid of it was a relief. I used a walker for two days until I stubbed my little toe on it so bad I thought I'd broken it. Then I used a cane for another 4-5 days. After that I just walked around like everyone else.  SignatureMortimer Schnerd, RN mortschnerd@carolina.rr.com.REMOVE How far did they cut you for the stomach surgery? The doctor told me that if I had the surgery I would be in the hospital for 10 days about. (To totally remove my colon). Have you known anyone that had this surgery? I remember someone who just had colon resection writhing in pain in her back. I would immagine a total colon removal would be much worse. > I wonder if anyone has had major abdominal surgeery and what it was > like? Is it painful? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I am trying to hold off but not sure how long I can avoid it. I have > never had surgery people and have a rather low threshold to pain. "Colon removal" - total colectomy - is a major, life altering procedure. It is one to be avoided, when possible. What treatment, medication, diet restrictions are you using now? This thread bothers me because of the questions you ask. I have the feeling you are either looking for attention or you have no concept about the anticipated surgery. Please don't take that as criticism or accusation; I am familiar, as a nurse, with colectomy and related issues. As you say, you have never had major surgery. You will not be well served by people who compare their "it hurt this much" or "they cut me this far" stories with you. If you are not making progress or improvement with your present physician, it would be wise to get another opinion. Tried and failed diet and medication are important aspects to discuss. There are far more important issues than the discomfort of an ng tube or needle sticks, I assure you. If you are truly headed for total colectomy, there are organizations which provide support and education which would be important in advance as far as options and life adjustments are concerned. A mature and experienced person with experience of having had the surgery is better prepared to discuss issues with you than people who have never had the surgery. Your physician should be the first source for information, and educating yourself with the best information available makes your successful outcome more likely. Your local hospital may have educational materials available, or certainly should be able to refer you to a good source. Check the library, as well. > > I wonder if anyone has had major abdominal surgeery and what it was > > like? Is it painful? [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > outcome more likely. Your local hospital may have educational materials > available, or certainly should be able to refer you to a good source. > Check the library, as well. I assure you, these are honest questions. I have seen two gastro doctors. I have been on Miralax, and every prescription and non presrcition laxative nknown to man. Currently I am taking 4 tablespoons of mom every night and also a bag enema evry day mostly. I have abdominal distention and bloating. Even after I do mannage to have a bm from the laxatives. I had a normal colonoscopy. I had a sitz marker study last April. All of the markers were left in my after 4 days. At 5 days most but not all were gone. Most of the time they were in my ascending colon. Doctor led me to believe my ascending colon does not work right. His exact words were "you have a weird colon". He said that the only option left was surgery for removal. He said to me that "I suspect that one day you will come back and tell me you want surgery". I tried fiber and all that. It made it worse. I just really want to get an understanding of the surgery from those that know. I know it is major, that is what scares me. I am just so darn uncomfortable right now. I am trying to weight the benefits vs costs. What did you mean about it being "life altering"? clipped > Doctor led me to believe my ascending colon does not work right. His > exact words were "you have a weird colon". He said that the only option [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > What did you mean about it being "life altering"? As usual, I could have chosen my words better in the previous post. "Wierd colon" is not adequate explanation. That is where you need to begin - to understand the problem. I would seriously consider, if I had a "paralyzed" colon, seeing a neurologist and a dietician. Probably a second gastroenterologist. You need to have the potential treatment or surgery explained by your physician to the extent that you understand what will be done, what options you have, related procedures, and changes to your body. > clipped > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > As usual, I could have chosen my words better in the previous post. > "Wierd colon" is not adequate explanation. That is where you need to > begin - to understand the problem. I would seriously consider, if I had > a "paralyzed" colon, seeing a neurologist and a dietician. Probably a > second gastroenterologist. You need to have the potential treatment or > surgery explained by your physician to the extent that you understand > what will be done, what options you have, related procedures, and > changes to your body. I actually have seen two gastroenterologist. It is interestign you said to see a neurologist. I have never seen one. What could they do? I have altered my diet a thousand different ways based on what the gastro docs told me and nothing seems to work. : What did you mean about it being "life altering"? The anatomy from the top down is like this: stomach, ileum, colon. With no colon (large bowel), your ileum (small bowel) will be pouring liquid stool out of your body for the rest of your life, into a bag which you will wear (and empty/clean/change/'burp' yourself). I would call that hugely frikkin' life-changing. I am still not understanding why you must lose your -=whole=- colon. If you MUST lose SOME length of colon -- fine, but try to keep SOME colon. I would go to a MAJOR urban area and get a 2nd (and 3rd) opinion. PS. have you read up on Celiac Disease? I have heard of a # of people with mystery bowel problems who turn out to have this condition. Emma (not a surgical RN) >: What did you mean about it being "life altering"? > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Emma > (not a surgical RN) Just to clarify your anatomic review, you forgot the duodenum and jejunum. In Don's case, I'm sceptical that he could find a surgeon that would really operate on him, but assuming that he does, it would be pretty much inconceivable that that surgeon would to a proctocolectomy with resultant permanent ileostomy for Don's condition (presumably colon inertia). It would more likely be a subtotal colectomy with ileorectal anastomosis, or possibly a J-pouch. HMc Why wouldnt anyone want to do sugery for this? It was recommended as the only option by my gastroenterologist. > Why wouldnt anyone want to do sugery for this? > It was recommended as > the only option by my gastroenterologist. Because it is major surgery, and carries various risks of its own. Before any surgeon would 'recommend' this, they'd need to be absolutely sure there was no more conservative therapy that would be worth trying first. I'm guessing that your case file is several inches thick, and, even if I had read every word, as a nurse, I am neither allowed nor competent to comment. I would, however, strongly suggest you seek a second opinion, and much more detail on the risks attached should you proceed. I don't think you've mentioned other factors which would potentially affect your decsion - and the outcome: Your age, your weight, any pre-existing/co-existing conditions, especially respiratory, cardiac, endocrine. This is a BIG ISSUE, and not really resolvable within this group. Get a 2nd opinion. Good Luck, SignatureAndrew Heenan Real Nurse http://www.realnurse.net/ I am male 33 180 lbs. 5 fett 11 inches tall.I have short run svt's sometimes which the cariologist told me to not worry about. > I am male 33 180 lbs. 5 fett 11 inches tall.I have short run svt's > sometimes which the cariologist told me to not worry about. Normally, maybe; an anaesthesiologist might think differently. If one surgeon says radical surgery is required when all the tests say NAD or "weird" (!), Get a second opinion, Ask him about the neurologist. A Can you tell me how a neurologist would be related or what they would do? What would an anestiasolosigt think differently about? > Can you tell me how a neurologist would > be related or what they would do? That's for the surgeon to decide; you need to ask him. > What would an anestiasolosigt think differently about? The risks of avoidable surgery. Which are many. Seek a second opinion. From a surgeon. SignatureAndrew Heenan Real Nurse http://www.realnurse.net/ > Why wouldnt anyone want to do sugery for this? It was recommended as > the only option by my gastroenterologist. Your gastroenterologist isn't a surgeon, and his knowledge of the pros and cons of such an operation in this setting is limited. Gastroenterologists can't just order up an operation like they would order an X-ray. The last thing a surgeon wants to do is operate on someone where the operation isn't going help, or worse, where the operation itself is going to create new problems. Don's fixation on this problem, at least based on what he's written here on sci.med over the years, would make most surgeons pretty hinky about operating on him. Many patients feel crappy, have multiple bodily dysfunctions, (the colon is a major source of fixation) for a variety of reasons. These patients, desperate for something to make them feel better, will often turn to the "miracle of surgery" looking for the ultimate cure. More often than not, the resultant ill-advised operation just creates a whole new set of problems that the patient ends up fixating on. I'm not saying that this is Don, I'm just saying that the pattern he presents here is looking kind of familiar. HMc > > Why wouldnt anyone want to do sugery for this? It was recommended as > > the only option by my gastroenterologist. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > bodily dysfunctions, (the colon is a major source of fixation) for a variety > of reasons. These patients, desperate for something to make them feel > better, will often turn to the "miracle of surgery" looking for the ultimate > cure. More often than not, the resultant ill-advised operation just creates [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > HMc This is not "just in my head". It is demonstrated by a tranist study. (Two of them actually). > This is not "just in my head". It is demonstrated by a tranist study. > (Two of them actually). An abnormal transit study doesn't conclusively demonstate a condition where subtotal colectomy would cure your problem. Major surgery, such as subtotal colectomy, to cure a problem wherein no pathology has been demonstrated is a dicey deal. The question a surgeon would ask is "why is the colon running so slow?" In the absence of any demonstrable disease state, the answer is usually laxative abuse, which in turn often is associated with some psychological issues that go beyond the ability of surgery to address the problem satisfactorily. And often, those issues will manifest themselves in some other way after the symptom (colon inertia) are addressed. HMc SOmeone on aanother newsgroup suggested seign a nerologist. What could they do for a colon problem? They are talking about sewing the end of the small intestine to the rectum. (No bag). The problem is my ascending colon (beginning of the colon) is what is really slow. Believe me I dont want surgery. I dont want to be this uncomfortable either or to take laxatives every day. I wish there was something else. Someone mentioned celiac disease but I had a colonoscopy that was normal. Wouldnt that have been ruled out? > They are talking about sewing the end of the small intestine to the > rectum. (No bag). [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Someone mentioned celiac disease but I had a colonoscopy that was > normal. Wouldnt that have been ruled out? Surely your colonoscopy wasn't normal if your gastroengerologist is recommending removing your entire colon as your "only" option. Signature"Did Father shoot him? I will eat Grandfather for dinner." - Helen Keller, on learning of the death of her grandfather > Surely your colonoscopy wasn't normal if your gastroengerologist is > recommending removing your entire colon as your "only" option. Colonoscopy only demonstrates morphology, not function. Sometimes we can infer function from morphology, but not always. The colon can look completely normal on colonoscopy and not function at all. Colonoscopy isn't magic. HMc
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