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Medical Forum / General / General / February 2005

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sciatica questions.......

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zark - 14 Feb 2005 16:26 GMT
hello-

i am seeking advice about dealing with sciatica.
background: came down with sciatica july 2004, mri taken early january
shows extrusion at l5-s1. since early january the pain has gotten
progressively worse. i now have to take nsaids 24/7-am now up to 1200mg
a day with ibuprofen. sometimes will substitute 400mg of ibuprofen with
220mg of aleve. for the first 6 months i managed the pain on 600mg of
ibuprofen    :( . i am taking prilosec to reduce the risk of bleeding
from the nsaids.

questions
1) how concerned should i be that the pain has increased, and that it
is still ongoing since july/04 (now nearly 8 months)? should i consider
getting another mri to try to find out why the pain has recently
increased?

2) the nsaids do take away the pain so that the only symptom is
tightness in my leg, but this could be from deconditioning. how long
and at what dose can one generally take nsaids (ibuprofen is first
choice, aleve (naproxen) is second)? what blood tests should i take to
monitor possible side effects from the nsaids?

3) if i can manage the pain successfully with nsaids, should i
indefinitely put off considering surgery? i dont have any fever,
unexplained weight loss, incontinence, muscle weakness (aside from no
longer being able to run, hence deconditioning).

4) when should i consider surgery? am thinking of microdiscectomy or
any other minimally invasive/outpatient technique. i do NOT want major
back surgery requiring general anesthesia and the cutting of ligaments
and muscle.

5) any recommendations for safer pain medicines?

6) what are the risks of developing permanent nerve/muscle damage? what
might be the warning signs?
Robert A. Fink, M. D. - 14 Feb 2005 23:59 GMT
>1) how concerned should i be that the pain has increased, and that it
>is still ongoing since july/04 (now nearly 8 months)? should i consider
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
>5) any recommendations for safer pain medicines?

Normally, if a disc syndrome is going to respond to non-surgical
management, it will do so within 2-3 months.  It sounds as if yours
has not responded to treatment.

I suspect that you are losing work time (and income).  Also, over
time, the nerve can degenerate under the influence of chronic
compression.  

If the disc is *extruded* (rather than merely herniated), then the
odds of this recovering without surgery are small.

"Minimally invasive" disc surgery is not effective when there is an
extruded fragment.  You cannot get the free fragment. If you have
surgery, you are most likely going to need "standard" surgery.  Go see
a good neurosurgeon.

Best,

Bob

Robert A. Fink, M. D.
Neurological Surgery
2500 Milvia Street  Suite 222
Berkeley, CA  94704-2636  USA
510-849-2555

**********************************
NOTE:  The material above is not "medical
advice".  Medical advice can only be
given after an in-person contact between
doctor and patient.
**********************************
zark - 15 Feb 2005 16:38 GMT
> >1) how concerned should i be that the pain has increased, and that it
> >is still ongoing since july/04 (now nearly 8 months)? should i consider
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> management, it will do so within 2-3 months.  It sounds as if yours
> has not responded to treatment.

agreed. my research indicates that those who have surgery and those who
dont have the same level of pain after 4 years. But i dont hink it is
wise to risk damage either from constantly taking nsaids or from the
nucleus pulposus inflammating the nerve.
have you seen the study where infliximab was used to treat sciatica?
(see nih pubmed) results very successful. abstract also mentioned that
the extrusion was absorbed by the body after a year!  the doctor i
consulted with was against it because 1) use would be offlabel, hence
not ethical 2) risk of pneumonia
comments?

> I suspect that you are losing work time (and income).  Also, over
> time, the nerve can degenerate under the influence of chronic
> compression.
>
> If the disc is *extruded* (rather than merely herniated), then the
> odds of this recovering without surgery are small.
drat!

> "Minimally invasive" disc surgery is not effective when there is an
> extruded fragment.  You cannot get the free fragment. If you have
> surgery, you are most likely going to need "standard" surgery.  Go see
> a good neurosurgeon.

i have seen a number of surgical web sites that claim that endoscopic
surgery can work for extruded disks.

> Best,
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> doctor and patient.
> **********************************
Robert A. Fink, M. D. - 16 Feb 2005 23:05 GMT
>have you seen the study where infliximab was used to treat sciatica?
>(see nih pubmed) results very successful. abstract also mentioned that
>the extrusion was absorbed by the body after a year!  the doctor i
>consulted with was against it because 1) use would be offlabel, hence
>not ethical 2) risk of pneumonia
>comments?

Infliximab has use in ankylosing spondylitis and other forms of
rheumatoid arthritis, but I have not seen much about its use in
ordinary disc disease.

>>i have seen a number of surgical web sites that claim that endoscopic
surgery can work for extruded disks.<<

I disagree.  It is like working "blind" and the failure rate is very
high, resulting in the need for re-operation (standard method).

Best,

Bob

Robert A. Fink, M. D.
Neurological Surgery
2500 Milvia Street  Suite 222
Berkeley, CA  94704-2636  USA
510-849-2555

**********************************
NOTE:  The material above is not "medical
advice".  Medical advice can only be
given after an in-person contact between
doctor and patient.
**********************************
etc1760@yahoo.com - 24 Feb 2005 16:40 GMT
please see the following link which indicates that minimally invasive
discectomy does appear to be effective.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra
ct&list_uids=13680028


please see the following link which shows that infliximab is effective
for sciatica:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra
ct&list_uids=15454701


your comments??

> >have you seen the study where infliximab was used to treat sciatica?
> >(see nih pubmed) results very successful. abstract also mentioned that
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> doctor and patient.
> **********************************

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